OP you mention gw2 which I'm a big fan of pve wise issue with pvp is there is no meta game really... Very few MMOs have large scale PvP with persistent deep meta games... That is something that will keep players playing day in and day out for a long time... I was not really a fan of daoc but after seeing the ideas this game is trying to accomplish I backed it..so guess we cancel each other out and the universe is in balance once again:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained. I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.
Originally posted by ShakyMo I won't fund a game, when they haven't put their money where their mouth is by making a demo first.
I'm not going to pledge for a list of ideas.
If they had developed a rough / smaller version before they launched the kickstarter campaign, things may have been different. The computer industry is littered with vapourware, I want some evidence before I commit.
The same applies with elite 4, I love elite, but the ks is just a list of ideas like cu.
But then they could have wasted all the cash developing the small demo version of the game if it never made it on kickstarter..
Why waste cash if there is no call of the game..
So the best thing to do is run a kickstarter campaign laying out all your plans and maybe showing a few tech demos and so on.. if it makes it then he is going to put more of his cash into it and he has some small investors willing to put cash in..
Because its such a niche game he wanted to make sure people wanted it.
Now if your not happy putting your own cash in thats fair enough but i think he made the right choice now.. i would have made the same choice as well.
If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained. I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.
Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..
What I liked about daoc was it had a perfect balance of pve and pvp. That to me is one of the defining features of daoc. What other mmo has this perfect 50/50 split of pve & pvp, perhaps gw2, but to me gw2 is to daoc as wow is to EQ, a simplified casual version for the youngsters.
I've got a good enough rvr only game as is, planetside 2, sure its not as good as planetside or daocs frontiers, but its still good fun compared to the attempts of the last decade like war, aion and gw2.
I like the sound of the keep building and what have you, but other than that and the fantasy setting what does cu offer that ps2 doesn't, especially when ps2 is free to play.
If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained. I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.
Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..
Wow...just wow. Obviously the guy loves sci-if more than RvR and you want to get "cute" about it? Anyway. The reason I didn't back CU yet is exactly because it isn't a clone...a clone of DAoC that is. Plus I'd need a lot more to go on than what I've been reading...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
There are dozens of triple A big funded themepark mmo's to choose from. To say you won't fund or play this because they didn't follow their same model seems a little strange to me.
You talk about being sick of those games, but don't want to support one trying to do something more freeform and different, but then say it's because it's missing what those ones your sick of don't have?
Just confusing logic to me.
There are a TON like that out there to choose from, but NOTHING like CU is going to be like.
I don't get it why so many people are so pessimistic about this project. This is not daoc 2. True! This has no pve. True! But this has so many wonderfull ideas how to put creation and destruction together. You do not only fight for a purpose, you build up for a purpose, too.
While I started supporting this project with daoc 2 in mind, I am glad to see the ideas envolving into something unique. This will not be the zergfest we celebrate in emain macha, the tides of war will move forward and backward. Players will defend the creations of their crafters, crafters will provide their warriors with new structures and bridge-heads every day. This will be so dynamically!
And if not, well, then it was a very kind try to bring something new. But to try out if it is ground breaking or sucking, the project has to fund first. Just have a little faith that your 25 bucks are invested wisely here and that you get a lot of fun playing the finished product in return.
MMO's played so far: UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained. I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.
Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..
Wow...just wow. Obviously the guy loves sci-if more than RvR and you want to get "cute" about it? Anyway. The reason I didn't back CU yet is exactly because it isn't a clone...a clone of DAoC that is. Plus I'd need a lot more to go on than what I've been reading...
No sorry didnt mean it to come accross like that.. im actually a massive sci-fi fan but really dont like the sound or the look of wildstar.. plus there are other sci-fi mmos available..
If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained. I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.
Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..
Wow...just wow. Obviously the guy loves sci-if more than RvR and you want to get "cute" about it? Anyway. The reason I didn't back CU yet is exactly because it isn't a clone...a clone of DAoC that is. Plus I'd need a lot more to go on than what I've been reading...
No sorry didnt mean it to come accross like that.. im actually a massive sci-fi fan but really dont like the sound or the look of wildstar.. plus there are other sci-fi mmos available..
Fair enough and duly noted. Tone can never be conveyed properly by using words typed. Which is why it's wise to pick them carefully. I'm just hoping that the sound and look of CU is something I can get into. I really would love to see what MJ comes up with. We need more diversity in this genre not less.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I understand your concerns. However, I think you did forget about how cool PvP can be.
I describe myself as a die hard PvP fan. I hate PvE in MMOs in general. I always rushed when playing WoW and a new expansion released, to max level just for being able to PvP. I'm sick of boring quests, dungeons and raids. Fighting the same big ass mob every week is just not my cup of tea.
Guild Wars 2. I was so hyped on this title. It landed, got blasted away with the graphics. The graphics in this game was awesome. Sadly, it was the only awesome about it. GW2 lacked feeling of progression, and nothing really feels important in the game, besides just keyboard smashing.
I know I ofended some GW2 fans there, but really - there is no progress or anything in GW2.
Try some fun PvP games, I'm sure it will change your mind. Sadly there's not alot of them around, because people want PvE for some reason.
I loved Warhammer Online RvR for an example, but GW2 RvR feels so meaningless compared to Warhammer Online, and that is what makes it count. To have a meaning.
In War Online, you gain PvP rank and will be able to get better gear. In GW2 you just.... Kill or get killed.
Originally posted by Wylf In the End you may be right. On the other hand, it seems that at some point in time in every MMO that I have played the PvP crowd starts to complain about the lack of variety and a lack of a world PvP server. The latest is Rift, their forums are full of complaints. Though there is one server that is dedicated to PvP it apparently is not good enough. I do not begrudge those who want to play PvP their fun. So I am hoping that CU works and gives the PvP fans a place to go.
Well, played Rift since launch. Rift is not really a PvP game.
It is a PvE game with PvP as a niche, just like World of Warcraft.
I yellowed the text of the important statements in this quote.
I played GW2. Fun game, but very shallow at the end. The PvP in it is simply OK, but has no real consequences or rewards to hold peoples attention. I also got tired of wanting to PvP with friends but having to wait 2 hours in Q to get in was BS. They also artificially limited the amount of people in the PvP area which makes no sense in a 3 sided fight.
I also played Rift and on a PvP server at that. Not a bad game, but it is a WoW clone. It had a chance to be very cool but design decisions like very cramped open world areas and some horrible immunity timer issues ruined it from a PvP standpoint
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by MikeJezZ
I know I ofended some GW2 fans there, but really - there is no progress or anything in GW2.
Yeah, that sucks for some people. I guess it's a good thing the lack of vertical progression was one of the most marketed features of GW2, so the ones who bought it despite frequenting sites like this can only blame themselves and their lack of reading comprehension.
You hit it on the head. The cool thing about GW2 was the lack of vertical progression. However the complete lack of horizontal progression at end game is what killed it for me and my entire guild.
Originally posted by KaiserPhoenix
the game is also not competing with just current mmos, but with the ones coming out in the next 3+ years.
Chances are, that the game's niche might be even smaller then, since many pvpers will be spread over multiple AAA games .
Very unlikely. Most PvPers do NOT want to do PvE. Why do you think games like LoL are so popular? If you bring players together in a static environment and actually give them something to fight for you will pull those people that are all about PvP in.
Originally posted by Tuktz
There are dozens of triple A big funded themepark mmo's to choose from. To say you won't fund or play this because they didn't follow their same model seems a little strange to me.
You talk about being sick of those games, but don't want to support one trying to do something more freeform and different, but then say it's because it's missing what those ones your sick of don't have?
Just confusing logic to me.
There are a TON like that out there to choose from, but NOTHING like CU is going to be like.
I wish these forums had a +/- 1 system in place. QFT.
Originally posted by DeviDemon
I doubt many people will be playing Wildstar in 1 year much less in 2-3 years.
As do I. Another +1
The ammount of FUD and misinformation for CU is pretty unbelievable. People dont want to put money down. Then dont. But dont sit there and piss and moan when nothing ever changes in the MMO genre because people dont have the sack to drop a few bucks on what could be a potentially a big game changer.
i really think mmos should all be Niche. mmoprg players ask for so many different things, that besides WoW, wich is the exception, we cannot honestly expect to have everything everyone is expecting from an mmoprg. But since WoW had/has so much success, it falsely became a "standard objective" as well.
Just to mention a few specific subjects that even among CU fans is very debated :
- CC (duration, style of CC etc)
- archers
- stealth
- numbers of classes
- PvP only
- lack of PvE
each of those subjects will have an impact on how may backers / players CU ends up having.
most mmorpg players are the worst kind of players, we have very specific things that if they're or they're not in a game, we simply wont play it. we keep asking for a mmorpg that really fits our needs, but our needs are so specific that no mmorpg can actually offer everything we want.
So...all mmorpgs should be niche, and we should, as players, ask less from one single mmorpg, because frankly we will never have EXACTLY what we want it in a one game only.
So, as far as i am concerned, CU is the closest thing i want from an mmo, not EXACTLY, but close enough for me to pledge, to participate the best i can in its evolution / creation.
If i wait to have the EXACT mmo i want, i'll end up not playing any until i die most likely.
I wont say pledge, i wont say dont pledge, to anyone. but pledge if CU sounds good enough for you to give it a chance, because waiting on the perfect one now THAT would be a waste.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC Thurka on WAR
Gamers need to overcome their fabricated desire for an "All-In-One" Wal-Mart superstore gaming experience. We have certain types of genres for their unique experiences - by definition, it's also a niche, but in a much larger perspective.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
Why is it harder to create a lot of classes now than it was 12 years and 2 MMOs ago?
Frankly there's way more non-RvR and user-created content in this game than I would like. If anything, the relative lack of RvR combat compared to DAOC is a better reason to not fund the game.
Though I am not a technical man I don't think MJ is talking about the technical aspects when he says that.
The people behind the games have gotten a lot better at making them. Just think Pong was created in 1975.
Thats over 3 decades worth of knowledge and experience. The people buying the games have also grown, perhaps the cost vs qaulity vs the customer is what makes it so hard today. I'm trying to be as concise as possible.
I think user-generated content is actually the answer to meaningful Trirealm combat.
I hate the term but themepark comes to mind when I picture a group of people fighting over a static objective.
Do you see what I mean? Nothing either side does will ever have a lasting impact on the world, ever.
The ride will always be available.
Now if you add user-generated content into the mix, the means for players to act on their imagination.
An empty canvas suddenly becomes an active living world.
This is what lays the groundwork for a succesful PvP game, a perfect example is EVE wich is not alone in confirming the theory.
In short I think by giving crafting so much attention the PvP will have real life.
Real desires, passion, real motivations.
Think of it like this, the crafters will provide the victims of the warrios.
edit: Disclaimer, I dont deal in absolutes so don't get hung up on the term themepark. Neither good or bad.
I loved DAOC, started at the beginning and got several toons to 50. Also loved the RvR. ToA basically killed it for me, I don't like 8-hour controlled raids, day after day.
Making the game PvP only is like going to get a steak dinner, and being told you cannot get any sides with it. Sure, I like steak, but I'd like to have a salad, potato, and a dessert with that, along with something nice to drink.
I greatly enjoyed the PvE in DAOC, enjoyed the crafting, enjoyed creating many alts to try out all the different classes, or even alts WITHIN the same class. Matter Cabalist plays different than the Spirit Cabalist.
I wish the game and team the best of luck, but I won't contribute anything until the game is released, with good reviews.
I loved DAOC, started at the beginning and got several toons to 50. Also loved the RvR. ToA basically killed it for me, I don't like 8-hour controlled raids, day after day.
Making the game PvP only is like going to get a steak dinner, and being told you cannot get any sides with it. Sure, I like steak, but I'd like to have a salad, potato, and a dessert with that, along with something nice to drink.
I greatly enjoyed the PvE in DAOC, enjoyed the crafting, enjoyed creating many alts to try out all the different classes, or even alts WITHIN the same class. Matter Cabalist plays different than the Spirit Cabalist.
I wish the game and team the best of luck, but I won't contribute anything until the game is released, with good reviews.
Is there anything other than steak?
I agree with you for the most part other than TOA. It was just another challenge to overcome. You said you liked the PvE, well thats all TOA was. The crafting system is still the best I have seen, and is still relevent to this day in DAOC in spite of all the new fancy equipment that was releaed over the years.
I loved DAOC, started at the beginning and got several toons to 50. Also loved the RvR. ToA basically killed it for me, I don't like 8-hour controlled raids, day after day.
Making the game PvP only is like going to get a steak dinner, and being told you cannot get any sides with it. Sure, I like steak, but I'd like to have a salad, potato, and a dessert with that, along with something nice to drink.
I greatly enjoyed the PvE in DAOC, enjoyed the crafting, enjoyed creating many alts to try out all the different classes, or even alts WITHIN the same class. Matter Cabalist plays different than the Spirit Cabalist.
I wish the game and team the best of luck, but I won't contribute anything until the game is released, with good reviews.
Is there anything other than steak?
I agree with you for the most part other than TOA. It was just another challenge to overcome. You said you liked the PvE, well thats all TOA was. The crafting system is still the best I have seen, and is still relevent to this day in DAOC in spite of all the new fancy equipment that was releaed over the years.
And for the Cabbie, tri-spec for PvP was pure win
If I was forced to eat only one thing, steak might be it
I like games with choice, the more the better. I want to log in and say: "what do I want to do?" PvE? PvP? crafting? exploring? trying out new alts? Fishing? Gambling?
What the OP said is the same reason myself and many others are not backing this game as well. Mark did DAoC well and that was it. I was there in the WAR beta far too long and while Mark might enjoy pawning off a great deal of failure from that game on EA. The beta forums tell a different story and so amny mistakes were made during the development. Most importantly a lot of promises were made and patch after patch they were taken away.
So when he announces yet another RvR focused game, but then tried to go RvR only with no innovations on how or why that would work. Well the numbers speak for themselves. Especially the number of people who are actually backing the kickstarter, not even 10,000 yet and the numbers have been very stagnant since the first few days.
Kickstarters work for great game ideas, it does not do the same for a game so niche that nobody will play it, let alone pay for it monthly.
Originally posted by olepiI like games with choice, the more the better. I want to log in and say: "what do I want to do?" PvE? PvP? crafting? exploring? trying out new alts? Fishing? Gambling?
Variety has always been what kept me in some games longer than others. Games like TOR would have kept me longer if they had a better space simulation. Games like EVE with great ship variety and full blown pvp are great, but if they had actual PvE only sector I would still be subscribed as some times I just want to relax while gaming and not worry about being ganked. And while I do realize that games like EVE are niche, and fanboys will tell you if it was any other way the game would suck, Eve was lucky enough to have backing prior to launch. But if you decide to stay niche you then have to accept that you will never achieve the population and income of Blizzard, or the backing of EA/(Insert some other super company with unlimited funds), because it simply will not draw a big enough crowd for a "reasonable" prediction of return on investment.
Originally posted by DJMantissKickstarters work for great game ideas, it does not do the same for a game so niche that nobody will play it, let alone pay for it monthly.
Said so well. The kickstarter shows that the interest is simply not what they thought it would be. Even Star Citizen was able to break the 2mil mark and that game was really on the drawing board and pretty darn niche. So while I do hope the game gets made, they really need to do something to attract a broader audience if they are going to make there mark in 9 days.
Originally posted by olepiI like games with choice, the more the better. I want to log in and say: "what do I want to do?" PvE? PvP? crafting? exploring? trying out new alts? Fishing? Gambling?
Variety has always been what kept me in some games longer than others. Games like TOR would have kept me longer if they had a better space simulation. Games like EVE with great ship variety and full blown pvp are great, but if they had actual PvE only sector I would still be subscribed as some times I just want to relax while gaming and not worry about being ganked. And while I do realize that games like EVE are niche, and fanboys will tell you if it was any other way the game would suck, Eve was lucky enough to have backing prior to launch. But if you decide to stay niche you then have to accept that you will never achieve the population and income of Blizzard, or the backing of EA/(Insert some other super company with unlimited funds), because it simply will not draw a big enough crowd for a "reasonable" prediction of return on investment.
Originally posted by DJMantissKickstarters work for great game ideas, it does not do the same for a game so niche that nobody will play it, let alone pay for it monthly.
Said so well. The kickstarter shows that the interest is simply not what they thought it would be. Even Star Citizen was able to break the 2mil mark and that game was really on the drawing board and pretty darn niche. So while I do hope the game gets made, they really need to do something to attract a broader audience if they are going to make there mark in 9 days.
Am I wrong or doesn't Star Citizen continue to draw in money? I swore they were over $8millio now. Which simply proves that people will invest in what they believe in and really desire as a game.
What the OP said is the same reason myself and many others are not backing this game as well. Mark did DAoC well and that was it. I was there in the WAR beta far too long and while Mark might enjoy pawning off a great deal of failure from that game on EA. The beta forums tell a different story and so amny mistakes were made during the development. Most importantly a lot of promises were made and patch after patch they were taken away.
So when he announces yet another RvR focused game, but then tried to go RvR only with no innovations on how or why that would work. Well the numbers speak for themselves. Especially the number of people who are actually backing the kickstarter, not even 10,000 yet and the numbers have been very stagnant since the first few days.
Kickstarters work for great game ideas, it does not do the same for a game so niche that nobody will play it, let alone pay for it monthly.
Please point me to where Mark Jacobs has said, what you have asserted, in red.
Comments
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
If Wildstar were not what it is and being released this year I might have been on the bandwagon of Camelot Unchained. I am glad to finally see a sci-fi MMO.
But then they could have wasted all the cash developing the small demo version of the game if it never made it on kickstarter..
Why waste cash if there is no call of the game..
So the best thing to do is run a kickstarter campaign laying out all your plans and maybe showing a few tech demos and so on.. if it makes it then he is going to put more of his cash into it and he has some small investors willing to put cash in..
Because its such a niche game he wanted to make sure people wanted it.
Now if your not happy putting your own cash in thats fair enough but i think he made the right choice now.. i would have made the same choice as well.
Wildstar is more like a wow clone in space from what i have been reading.. so nothing like CU..
What I liked about daoc was it had a perfect balance of pve and pvp. That to me is one of the defining features of daoc. What other mmo has this perfect 50/50 split of pve & pvp, perhaps gw2, but to me gw2 is to daoc as wow is to EQ, a simplified casual version for the youngsters.
I've got a good enough rvr only game as is, planetside 2, sure its not as good as planetside or daocs frontiers, but its still good fun compared to the attempts of the last decade like war, aion and gw2.
I like the sound of the keep building and what have you, but other than that and the fantasy setting what does cu offer that ps2 doesn't, especially when ps2 is free to play.
Wow...just wow. Obviously the guy loves sci-if more than RvR and you want to get "cute" about it? Anyway. The reason I didn't back CU yet is exactly because it isn't a clone...a clone of DAoC that is. Plus I'd need a lot more to go on than what I've been reading...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
There are dozens of triple A big funded themepark mmo's to choose from. To say you won't fund or play this because they didn't follow their same model seems a little strange to me.
You talk about being sick of those games, but don't want to support one trying to do something more freeform and different, but then say it's because it's missing what those ones your sick of don't have?
Just confusing logic to me.
There are a TON like that out there to choose from, but NOTHING like CU is going to be like.
MMO history - EVE GW2 SWTOR RIFT WAR COH/V EQ2 WOW DAOC
Tuktz - http://www.heretic.shivtr.com/
I don't get it why so many people are so pessimistic about this project. This is not daoc 2. True! This has no pve. True! But this has so many wonderfull ideas how to put creation and destruction together. You do not only fight for a purpose, you build up for a purpose, too.
While I started supporting this project with daoc 2 in mind, I am glad to see the ideas envolving into something unique. This will not be the zergfest we celebrate in emain macha, the tides of war will move forward and backward. Players will defend the creations of their crafters, crafters will provide their warriors with new structures and bridge-heads every day. This will be so dynamically!
And if not, well, then it was a very kind try to bring something new. But to try out if it is ground breaking or sucking, the project has to fund first. Just have a little faith that your 25 bucks are invested wisely here and that you get a lot of fun playing the finished product in return.
MMO's played so far:
UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen
No sorry didnt mean it to come accross like that.. im actually a massive sci-fi fan but really dont like the sound or the look of wildstar.. plus there are other sci-fi mmos available..
Fair enough and duly noted. Tone can never be conveyed properly by using words typed. Which is why it's wise to pick them carefully. I'm just hoping that the sound and look of CU is something I can get into. I really would love to see what MJ comes up with. We need more diversity in this genre not less.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I doubt many people will be playing Wildstar in 1 year much less in 2-3 years.
I yellowed the text of the important statements in this quote.
I played GW2. Fun game, but very shallow at the end. The PvP in it is simply OK, but has no real consequences or rewards to hold peoples attention. I also got tired of wanting to PvP with friends but having to wait 2 hours in Q to get in was BS. They also artificially limited the amount of people in the PvP area which makes no sense in a 3 sided fight.
I also played Rift and on a PvP server at that. Not a bad game, but it is a WoW clone. It had a chance to be very cool but design decisions like very cramped open world areas and some horrible immunity timer issues ruined it from a PvP standpoint
You hit it on the head. The cool thing about GW2 was the lack of vertical progression. However the complete lack of horizontal progression at end game is what killed it for me and my entire guild.
Very unlikely. Most PvPers do NOT want to do PvE. Why do you think games like LoL are so popular? If you bring players together in a static environment and actually give them something to fight for you will pull those people that are all about PvP in.
I wish these forums had a +/- 1 system in place. QFT.
As do I. Another +1
The ammount of FUD and misinformation for CU is pretty unbelievable. People dont want to put money down. Then dont. But dont sit there and piss and moan when nothing ever changes in the MMO genre because people dont have the sack to drop a few bucks on what could be a potentially a big game changer.
You cant fix stupid - Ron White
i really think mmos should all be Niche. mmoprg players ask for so many different things, that besides WoW, wich is the exception, we cannot honestly expect to have everything everyone is expecting from an mmoprg. But since WoW had/has so much success, it falsely became a "standard objective" as well.
Just to mention a few specific subjects that even among CU fans is very debated :
- CC (duration, style of CC etc)
- archers
- stealth
- numbers of classes
- PvP only
- lack of PvE
each of those subjects will have an impact on how may backers / players CU ends up having.
most mmorpg players are the worst kind of players, we have very specific things that if they're or they're not in a game, we simply wont play it. we keep asking for a mmorpg that really fits our needs, but our needs are so specific that no mmorpg can actually offer everything we want.
So...all mmorpgs should be niche, and we should, as players, ask less from one single mmorpg, because frankly we will never have EXACTLY what we want it in a one game only.
So, as far as i am concerned, CU is the closest thing i want from an mmo, not EXACTLY, but close enough for me to pledge, to participate the best i can in its evolution / creation.
If i wait to have the EXACT mmo i want, i'll end up not playing any until i die most likely.
I wont say pledge, i wont say dont pledge, to anyone. but pledge if CU sounds good enough for you to give it a chance, because waiting on the perfect one now THAT would be a waste.
Bowbow (kob hunter) Infecto (kob cave shammy) and Thurka (troll warrior) on Merlin/Midgard DAoC
Thurka on WAR
Gamers need to overcome their fabricated desire for an "All-In-One" Wal-Mart superstore gaming experience. We have certain types of genres for their unique experiences - by definition, it's also a niche, but in a much larger perspective.
Though I am not a technical man I don't think MJ is talking about the technical aspects when he says that.
The people behind the games have gotten a lot better at making them. Just think Pong was created in 1975.
Thats over 3 decades worth of knowledge and experience. The people buying the games have also grown, perhaps the cost vs qaulity vs the customer is what makes it so hard today. I'm trying to be as concise as possible.
I think user-generated content is actually the answer to meaningful Trirealm combat.
I hate the term but themepark comes to mind when I picture a group of people fighting over a static objective.
Do you see what I mean? Nothing either side does will ever have a lasting impact on the world, ever.
The ride will always be available.
Now if you add user-generated content into the mix, the means for players to act on their imagination.
An empty canvas suddenly becomes an active living world.
This is what lays the groundwork for a succesful PvP game, a perfect example is EVE wich is not alone in confirming the theory.
In short I think by giving crafting so much attention the PvP will have real life.
Real desires, passion, real motivations.
Think of it like this, the crafters will provide the victims of the warrios.
edit: Disclaimer, I dont deal in absolutes so don't get hung up on the term themepark.
Neither good or bad.
I loved DAOC, started at the beginning and got several toons to 50. Also loved the RvR. ToA basically killed it for me, I don't like 8-hour controlled raids, day after day.
Making the game PvP only is like going to get a steak dinner, and being told you cannot get any sides with it. Sure, I like steak, but I'd like to have a salad, potato, and a dessert with that, along with something nice to drink.
I greatly enjoyed the PvE in DAOC, enjoyed the crafting, enjoyed creating many alts to try out all the different classes, or even alts WITHIN the same class. Matter Cabalist plays different than the Spirit Cabalist.
I wish the game and team the best of luck, but I won't contribute anything until the game is released, with good reviews.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
I think it's fair to say there are plenty of sides on offer. They're just not your traditional options.
The crafting system, mining, gathering, etc a just some of the options offered so far.
Personally I see a lot of things to keep me busy/entertained. But no game is for everyone.
Is there anything other than steak?
I agree with you for the most part other than TOA. It was just another challenge to overcome. You said you liked the PvE, well thats all TOA was. The crafting system is still the best I have seen, and is still relevent to this day in DAOC in spite of all the new fancy equipment that was releaed over the years.
And for the Cabbie, tri-spec for PvP was pure win
You cant fix stupid - Ron White
If I was forced to eat only one thing, steak might be it
I like games with choice, the more the better. I want to log in and say: "what do I want to do?" PvE? PvP? crafting? exploring? trying out new alts? Fishing? Gambling?
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
What the OP said is the same reason myself and many others are not backing this game as well. Mark did DAoC well and that was it. I was there in the WAR beta far too long and while Mark might enjoy pawning off a great deal of failure from that game on EA. The beta forums tell a different story and so amny mistakes were made during the development. Most importantly a lot of promises were made and patch after patch they were taken away.
So when he announces yet another RvR focused game, but then tried to go RvR only with no innovations on how or why that would work. Well the numbers speak for themselves. Especially the number of people who are actually backing the kickstarter, not even 10,000 yet and the numbers have been very stagnant since the first few days.
Kickstarters work for great game ideas, it does not do the same for a game so niche that nobody will play it, let alone pay for it monthly.
Variety has always been what kept me in some games longer than others. Games like TOR would have kept me longer if they had a better space simulation. Games like EVE with great ship variety and full blown pvp are great, but if they had actual PvE only sector I would still be subscribed as some times I just want to relax while gaming and not worry about being ganked. And while I do realize that games like EVE are niche, and fanboys will tell you if it was any other way the game would suck, Eve was lucky enough to have backing prior to launch. But if you decide to stay niche you then have to accept that you will never achieve the population and income of Blizzard, or the backing of EA/(Insert some other super company with unlimited funds), because it simply will not draw a big enough crowd for a "reasonable" prediction of return on investment.
Said so well. The kickstarter shows that the interest is simply not what they thought it would be. Even Star Citizen was able to break the 2mil mark and that game was really on the drawing board and pretty darn niche. So while I do hope the game gets made, they really need to do something to attract a broader audience if they are going to make there mark in 9 days.
Am I wrong or doesn't Star Citizen continue to draw in money? I swore they were over $8millio now. Which simply proves that people will invest in what they believe in and really desire as a game.
Please point me to where Mark Jacobs has said, what you have asserted, in red.