oh my, might get another warning for this or a ban.... but OP is the defintion of a fanboy (if he's being serious).
What we've seen in these tech videos is a low poly model with a couple of keyframes animations that are not synced-up floating on-top of a basic terrain mesh. The building video is a quick minecraft clone made in unity that any one can do in half a day.
I see nothing to get even remotly excited about - it boggles my mind the amount of fanaticisum this game (and I use that term lightly) has generated. I am even going to miss out big or I am the only one aroud here with my head screwed on.
This video at 8 minutes, the walking st'rm model is the only clear definition video of the character models available, unless someone else did a livestream of their networked demo at 1080p.
This video at 8 minutes, the walking st'rm model is the only clear definition video of the character models available, unless someone else did a livestream of their networked demo at 1080p.
20 to 40 times more detail in every single troop and terrain there and up to 15000 troops+ and it account collision + physics (a very big deal)
Just research a little, that is not even the only example
I love Total War, but when you have 150,000+ troops on the field those are not all unique right? Most of the them are copies of a handful of models are they not?
People falling for smoke and mirrors. What a surprise. I seriously laughed at the person talking about how all the models may look the same but they are rendered in a way to be unique. And yes, I am a veteran developer who has written games. I love watching non techies fall for this stuff.
I think mark said he was putting 150k into the ks (likely salary/etc), probably didn't think people's standards were so high for ks since for lots of projects they haven't been.
I think most of what we are seeing is a scramble to get it done - and fairly impressive.
All these people that could "put this all together in a day"...haven't. Words are wind - these guys are actually trying to build something here
Game won't release before 2015. There is no game. The devs will finish the game regardless of KS. This is getting worse than people blindly pre-ordering stuff. What we have seen in 1 month is hype, and leadership skills from MJ's team. Again, the game is not finished, no demo, no trial, zero.
Problem with MMOs is that every player is different. From hair , eyes , skin color to equipment , weapons , even skill choices.
This is what makes the slow down.
500 of same characters exuals 500*500*500 in real time MMO.
In single player.
Heck even old Serios Sam was able to show over 10000 models in same scene without any slowdown , on custom engine and super old PC.
....I Must agree. I just feel as showed by the current kickstart funded level, its too little to late. I am sure this will be a great game, it has some stellar ideas, and views on MMO concepts. But I dont believe it will hit its 2million goal.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Have to agree with the skeptics in the regard that this demo isn't indicative of anything other than being able to code. I want the game to fund, and I think they'll get the engine to where it needs to be, but this is just a baby step in the right direction.
Originally posted by Ikonis People falling for smoke and mirrors. What a surprise. I seriously laughed at the person talking about how all the models may look the same but they are rendered in a way to be unique. And yes, I am a veteran developer who has written games. I love watching non techies fall for this stuff.
He said in the bottom two videos they're clones, not copies. Maybe they're BSing. Could be. Maybe they'll fail to pull off what they're aiming for. Anything is possible. But what I'm judging is their intent and their belief in that intent, and both seem solid enough for me to back, even if it fails. They're not hiding or being shady with anyone. They've stated time and again what the idea is and why they think they can achieve it.
What games have you written? Do you mean written code or design docs?
This video at 8 minutes, the walking st'rm model is the only clear definition video of the character models available, unless someone else did a livestream of their networked demo at 1080p.
20 to 40 times more detail in every single troop and terrain there and up to 15000 troops+ and it account collision + physics (a very big deal)
Just research a little, that is not even the only example
I love Total War, but when you have 150,000+ troops on the field those are not all unique right? Most of the them are copies of a handful of models are they not?
I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking.
From Medieval total war onward the variety have been increasing
The exact number im not sure
But he asked for a rts with a huge number of detailed models, and I gave him
The number of characters onscreen is impressive, but I highly recommend you do not take that as an indicator of quality in itself.
It's a zillion characters, that's true enough... without real AI, without any kind of physics to keep them from walking through each other, with a total of two character models, without any apparent networking going on to make all of those character models tell a server where to go from remote.
This is a cool step, but it is not as big a step as you might hope.
Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Camelot Unchained, but do not go all-in on the strength of a server. Instanced rendering does not a crazy-wonderful game make; it's not like they have to have fifteen tiers' worth of armor sets all animating properly on all those models all at the same time. Two sets of clothes. No action other than moving from A to B. No interaction whatsoever with other characters.
So. Grain of salt, you know?
Just to correct a few things:
They had collision detection in the latest build. There was CD for enemies but pass through for own side.
The characters are being individually called and drawn, they're not 1 model and 100 copies. It's being rendered as if they're calling 101 unique characters. True, there are fewer meshes to have to sort through, but as for the rendering, it's not two models. Every one is uniquely drawn.
They had the latest build, with particle effects, player collision, and a basic capture the node game running world wide on the engine and network CSE built in the last month or two. Anyone with a directx 11 card could get in to the game via a link they posted to their server.
Everyone had a basic attack and a health bar. You could damage and "kill" anyone from the other side.
There was very little network optimization.
This demo was running at 500-600 FPS with 118 people playing around the world.
Do you know why it runs so well? Or why they can render so many characters with such high framerate? Because there is barely anything else. I admit that it looks great at this stage but you must realise that there is barely any textures, the world is super tiny and on par with decade old games right now such as Warcraft III.
The number of characters onscreen is impressive, but I highly recommend you do not take that as an indicator of quality in itself.
It's a zillion characters, that's true enough... without real AI, without any kind of physics to keep them from walking through each other, with a total of two character models, without any apparent networking going on to make all of those character models tell a server where to go from remote.
This is a cool step, but it is not as big a step as you might hope.
Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for Camelot Unchained, but do not go all-in on the strength of a server. Instanced rendering does not a crazy-wonderful game make; it's not like they have to have fifteen tiers' worth of armor sets all animating properly on all those models all at the same time. Two sets of clothes. No action other than moving from A to B. No interaction whatsoever with other characters.
So. Grain of salt, you know?
Just to correct a few things:
They had collision detection in the latest build. There was CD for enemies but pass through for own side.
The characters are being individually called and drawn, they're not 1 model and 100 copies. It's being rendered as if they're calling 101 unique characters. True, there are fewer meshes to have to sort through, but as for the rendering, it's not two models. Every one is uniquely drawn.
They had the latest build, with particle effects, player collision, and a basic capture the node game running world wide on the engine and network CSE built in the last month or two. Anyone with a directx 11 card could get in to the game via a link they posted to their server.
Everyone had a basic attack and a health bar. You could damage and "kill" anyone from the other side.
There was very little network optimization.
This demo was running at 500-600 FPS with 118 people playing around the world.
Do you know why it runs so well? Or why they can render so many characters with such high framerate? Because there is barely anything else. I admit that it looks great at this stage but you must realise that there is barely any textures, the world is super tiny and on par with decade old games right now such as Warcraft III.
Game won't release before 2015. There is no game. The devs will finish the game regardless of KS. This is getting worse than people blindly pre-ordering stuff. What we have seen in 1 month is hype, and leadership skills from MJ's team. Again, the game is not finished, no demo, no trial, zero.
exactly, and the hype-wagonsters are smug while they are begging for money at the same time. lol, i seriously don't have any words for this.
An element of comprehension would be amazing for these boards and limits the mass amount of pointless threads. The test is about showing how well the engine can run with the emulated character complexity (that they are all different is meaningless) in great numbers and some partical affects and even collision. As said MANY times, which so many seems to ignore or not comprehend, it is about showing how much breathing room they have with FPS after introducing more elements into the demo.
What this means is if the latest demo ran at 500-1000 FPS with tons of players it means they can still keep adding more affects and balance performance and superior looks. The amount of players judging these early network and engine tests against a release product is disturbing. Clearly many here think games are shit out of a developers ass instantly looking perfect at day 1. Give your heads a shake people.
Game won't release before 2015. There is no game. The devs will finish the game regardless of KS. This is getting worse than people blindly pre-ordering stuff. What we have seen in 1 month is hype, and leadership skills from MJ's team. Again, the game is not finished, no demo, no trial, zero.
exactly, and the hype-wagonsters are smug while they are begging for money at the same time. lol, i seriously don't have any words for this.
They had two methods approaching this KS. They could have used the Unity engine to make pretty demos of characters running around emulating combat to make the people who care nothing about an actual functional game engine even existing or they could do what they did here and develope the engine for the game. It comes down to you not enjoying watching a game engine being made and rather seeing pretty character models being made that don't yet exist in any real game.
Pathfinder did this. They made a semi-pretty tech demo that was nothing more than some animations running around on an engine they ultimately weren't going to use. That isn't even a game. That is frosting without the cake. You can choose to to expect what you want over what is needed ... there really isn't anything anyone can do to convince you otherwise I suppose.
Problem with MMOs is that every player is different. From hair , eyes , skin color to equipment , weapons , even skill choices.
This is what makes the slow down.
500 of same characters exuals 500*500*500 in real time MMO.
In single player.
Heck even old Serios Sam was able to show over 10000 models in same scene without any slowdown , on custom engine and super old PC.
....I Must agree. I just feel as showed by the current kickstart funded level, its too little to late. I am sure this will be a great game, it has some stellar ideas, and views on MMO concepts. But I dont believe it will hit its 2million goal.
How can you be sure it will be a great game while you believe it won't fund? It was said often enough than there won't be a game if it doesn't fund...
Here is the first tech demo, where they talk about it and why this engine will fare better than the other ones. And you can see in the comment a wall of text from MJ answering lots of questions, and saying in one of the first ones than that demo with 10k low poly models was the result of less than a week of work.
So yes i do understand than the tech demo aren't as amazing as some people say, but i do trust them to do something that'll work in the end.
I saw some screens and it seemed Ultima Online. Each one is entitled to feel as much excitement as they wish, but I won't be riding this hype train.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
All this in 27 days: $1.6 million. So, doesn't matter what the demo showed or anything. If they don't raise roughly $400,000 in the next 3 days, it wont really matter what they have done in the past month on the FPS.
As a lot of people have said, much of this kind of stuff should have been done prior to the KS campaign. It might have helped.
Game won't release before 2015. There is no game. The devs will finish the game regardless of KS. This is getting worse than people blindly pre-ordering stuff. What we have seen in 1 month is hype, and leadership skills from MJ's team. Again, the game is not finished, no demo, no trial, zero.
Maybe they will, maybe they won't bother to go forward due to a lack of interest if some of Mark's previous comments were accurate.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
oh my, might get another warning for this or a ban.... but OP is the defintion of a fanboy (if he's being serious).
What we've seen in these tech videos is a low poly model with a couple of keyframes animations that are not synced-up floating on-top of a basic terrain mesh. The building video is a quick minecraft clone made in unity that any one can do in half a day.
I see nothing to get even remotly excited about - it boggles my mind the amount of fanaticisum this game (and I use that term lightly) has generated. I am even going to miss out big or I am the only one aroud here with my head screwed on.
I present you
The total War series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOCEh35b1Ts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_99w5LnpWMY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKYjwACeBvc
20 to 40 times more detail in every single troop and terrain there and up to 15000 troops+ and it account collision + physics (a very big deal)
Just research a little, that is not even the only example
I love Total War, but when you have 150,000+ troops on the field those are not all unique right? Most of the them are copies of a handful of models are they not?
I honestly don't know which is why I'm asking.
Waiting: CU, WildStar, Destiny, Eternal Crusade
Playing: ESO,DCUO
Played: LotRO,RIFT,ToR,Warhammer, Runescape
Personally, this fires my skeptic sensors.
"If you can bang this out in a month, why couldnt you put somethng more together before the KS?"
I think most of what we are seeing is a scramble to get it done - and fairly impressive.
All these people that could "put this all together in a day"...haven't. Words are wind - these guys are actually trying to build something here
Game won't release before 2015. There is no game. The devs will finish the game regardless of KS. This is getting worse than people blindly pre-ordering stuff. What we have seen in 1 month is hype, and leadership skills from MJ's team. Again, the game is not finished, no demo, no trial, zero.
....I Must agree. I just feel as showed by the current kickstart funded level, its too little to late. I am sure this will be a great game, it has some stellar ideas, and views on MMO concepts. But I dont believe it will hit its 2million goal.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Guess you meant my post.
First Engine display:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGUd7VgzMMY
First Models dropped in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCwE_0ZMydk
Few Days later where Andrew says models are uniquely rendered:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eurh6HlARdE
He said in the bottom two videos they're clones, not copies. Maybe they're BSing. Could be. Maybe they'll fail to pull off what they're aiming for. Anything is possible. But what I'm judging is their intent and their belief in that intent, and both seem solid enough for me to back, even if it fails. They're not hiding or being shady with anyone. They've stated time and again what the idea is and why they think they can achieve it.
What games have you written? Do you mean written code or design docs?
From Medieval total war onward the variety have been increasing
The exact number im not sure
But he asked for a rts with a huge number of detailed models, and I gave him
Do you know why it runs so well? Or why they can render so many characters with such high framerate? Because there is barely anything else. I admit that it looks great at this stage but you must realise that there is barely any textures, the world is super tiny and on par with decade old games right now such as Warcraft III.
Really? No kiddin'?
exactly, and the hype-wagonsters are smug while they are begging for money at the same time. lol, i seriously don't have any words for this.
An element of comprehension would be amazing for these boards and limits the mass amount of pointless threads. The test is about showing how well the engine can run with the emulated character complexity (that they are all different is meaningless) in great numbers and some partical affects and even collision. As said MANY times, which so many seems to ignore or not comprehend, it is about showing how much breathing room they have with FPS after introducing more elements into the demo.
What this means is if the latest demo ran at 500-1000 FPS with tons of players it means they can still keep adding more affects and balance performance and superior looks. The amount of players judging these early network and engine tests against a release product is disturbing. Clearly many here think games are shit out of a developers ass instantly looking perfect at day 1. Give your heads a shake people.
You stay sassy!
They had two methods approaching this KS. They could have used the Unity engine to make pretty demos of characters running around emulating combat to make the people who care nothing about an actual functional game engine even existing or they could do what they did here and develope the engine for the game. It comes down to you not enjoying watching a game engine being made and rather seeing pretty character models being made that don't yet exist in any real game.
Pathfinder did this. They made a semi-pretty tech demo that was nothing more than some animations running around on an engine they ultimately weren't going to use. That isn't even a game. That is frosting without the cake. You can choose to to expect what you want over what is needed ... there really isn't anything anyone can do to convince you otherwise I suppose.
You stay sassy!
How can you be sure it will be a great game while you believe it won't fund? It was said often enough than there won't be a game if it doesn't fund...
Here is the first tech demo, where they talk about it and why this engine will fare better than the other ones. And you can see in the comment a wall of text from MJ answering lots of questions, and saying in one of the first ones than that demo with 10k low poly models was the result of less than a week of work.
So yes i do understand than the tech demo aren't as amazing as some people say, but i do trust them to do something that'll work in the end.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
All this in 27 days: $1.6 million. So, doesn't matter what the demo showed or anything. If they don't raise roughly $400,000 in the next 3 days, it wont really matter what they have done in the past month on the FPS.
As a lot of people have said, much of this kind of stuff should have been done prior to the KS campaign. It might have helped.
Maybe they will, maybe they won't bother to go forward due to a lack of interest if some of Mark's previous comments were accurate.
We'll have to see how it goes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Are you SkyExile? Or just pretending to be?