My challenge to a HOGG member.. Want to exert your "dominance" on the world? Ready to show us all who's really the BOSS HOGG? You guys should make videos in like a big city walking around and randomly calling people "gimps" as you try and interrupt what they are doing..
You know, that guy lifting weights trying to pump out those real life prowess points, go ahead and stand in front of him and pull his weights from him while calling him a gimp.. Show us how it's really done..
The internet just isn't hardcore enough, you guys need a bigger arena... Get famous..
I actually remember seeing an old video of these guys doing the exact same thing in WoW I cant even remember how many years ago. I thought it funny to myself that these guys thought themselves witty at all in their attempts at what they called griefing. I've been in numerous games with similar functions such as the line of sight where players can cause a player to get frustrated from just simple things like this. I think the guys that are in hogg or whatever the hell they call themselves need some serious mental therapy. I swear these guys have the IQ of 4 year olds fighting over a piece of candy. I guess they just really want attention of some kind I mean they probably see this article even and feel proud of themselves that someone out in the interwebs giving mention to them but hey what can you expect when dealing with people with a lower IQ average than the excrement I flush down the tiolette.
Originally posted by socalsk8tr I actually remember seeing an old video of these guys doing the exact same thing in WoW I cant even remember how many years ago. I thought it funny to myself that these guys thought themselves witty at all in their attempts at what they called griefing. I've been in numerous games with similar functions such as the line of sight where players can cause a player to get frustrated from just simple things like this. I think the guys that are in hogg or whatever the hell they call themselves need some serious mental therapy. I swear these guys have the IQ of 4 year olds fighting over a piece of candy. I guess they just really want attention of some kind I mean they probably see this article even and feel proud of themselves that someone out in the interwebs giving mention to them but hey what can you expect when dealing with people with a lower IQ average than the excrement I flush down the tiolette.
Just wanted to add was browing other comments noticed some people talking about legal action. It can already be done its called harrassment plain and simple in the most blunt terms which is in certain us states an arrestable offence as well as in I believe its texas and one other state near it have laws for cyber bullying but this group of people could even be considered a hate group and classified as such its all in having enough supportive evidence and wording things properly.
Also was just thinking since noticed some players mentioning the companies they may even have the ability to go after them for a loss of revenue if they were able to prove it. Again its all in the wording and we all know how in the US you can sue or be sued for pretty much any damn thing you can think of...
Originally posted by ucidaitaci People like them is what's wrong with the world, making someone elses life harder for their amusement. Pick up our torches and pitchfork, march our asses to Aventurine and demand to IP perm ban them, like what we would do centuries ago. BURN THEM WITCHES!!!
I love to grief in EVE, but over there it has a purpose lol....
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
You can find these people in any game or any sandbox in any crowded playground.
There are life lessons to be learned here.
These are called bullies and the same strategies work everywhere you face them.
1) Dont give them your power (like don't write an article about it or insult him in chat lol).
2) Dont waste any of your time on them (log off immediately and log back in a few minutes later and leave the zone if you have to).
3) Take pleasure in stopping them when you have the power to.
4) HAVE FUN WITH IT! (laugh it off .. ... smile ...). The instant you get angry, they won. They can smell it. They are just trying to piss you off and get attention.
Its like playing chess... and these guys probably aren't very good at chess. Think ahead.
It is a psychological thing that is traced back to being a little kid in a playground.
You can actually kill these people and take their stuff if you play the game long enough .....
get revenge!
I think AV did the right thing not banning them permanently. Its only a fishing skill. Who cares?
Why cant you just shrug if off instead of give them exactly what they want?
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I guess I'm going to sound like a dick, but ... let me see if I understand.
You're playing a FFA FL game and you're whining about someone play-griefing.
You guys seem to think it's wrong? Like you shouldn't do that?
*shakes head*
I'm having a hard time here. Is it because of the videos?
I mean, Darkfail is a PK game. Your entire goal is to make someone else miserable. You want to make other people have a bad day so you can have a good one. Seriously.
You aren't playing Tennis or Checkers or Football. You're out to kill them 20 to 1 if you could. It isn't remotely fair or honest or anything else. It isn't sportsman like and you won't get a trophy. If you could find a way to cheat, you should.
Why should you give a crap?
If this bothers you, quit. LOL! You aren't gonna make it. You REALLY aren't cut out for PK games.
Me, personally, I hate PK games. I won't play them because I find them either irritating or I ruin someone else's fun. I just don't get off doing that. If forced, however, I understand the game.
You need very thick skin and a clear-cut set of goals. You should expect to be jacked with every possible way, and you should do the same to everyone else you see. You should use every trick, beg, lie, cajole, flirt, steal, or backstab possible.
When someone jacks with you ... learn. Figure out what they're doing and put that tool in your box. Otherwise, you need to mitigate what they're doing and move on or avoid them.
Failing that, you're a victim. Reacting is what they're looking for. They want to get under your skin. They work on it.
Those guys in the videos, I suspect they're victims. If they were real. Most PKers have sock accounts.
The Hogg guys? They're unhappy. The only way they get happy is by ruining someone else's day. So, not only did they succeed in ruining their victim's day, they also apparently made some of you upset.
That would only make them smile. See, PKers are very small people that didn't get the ball in real life.
Online, in a game, they can make you miserable and not get the shit kicked out of them. If they could, they'd make you quit.
How would I've responded? I likely would've moved my mouse over to my other screen and did something else while my character just stood there.
Typically, PKers are like sharks. *looks at own photo and chuckles* (I seriously need to change that.)
Anyway, they HATE being bored, so just wait for a few mintues and they'll leave. I would (wait). Then I'd jack with them.
"Hey sugar pie! Where you goin? You can't even keep me from harvesting? Loser."
"Aw man. You actually stood there while I ate a sammich! ROFL! Go get me a beer."
Or open up a conversation with them. Tell them ALL about your "day". Make it boring or downright strange. Go to McDonalds and describe EVERYTHING. Ask them about finding men if they're playing a guy toon. Gay stuff makes most people uncomfortable, so see if it works on them. If they berate you, report them.
I mean, the possibilities are endless. Why would you possibly be upset?
I'd open up a weird ERP session and start-a-talkin. Maybe pop out a LARP fantasy with Tubby Furries or something. I'd try to figure out how much smack they could talk. Include their parents, wives, children, and pets.
I'm certain something pisses them off. I'd find it.
Hell, call'em Unkle Spiffy. Just keep calling them that like it's their name. Call'em Daddy!
If they act offended, ignore them and keep-a talkin'. Start following them if they leave (just don't go into PK land).
If you can, open up trade windows. Keep inviting them to group. Invite them to a guild if you can. Friend them. Send them email.
If you find out who their friends are, send them mail too. Make the messages about your new pal plain strange.
If your character has an emote that makes noise, write a macro that keeps doing it. Then do something else while it runs. I assure you that they'll get the worst end of the stick.
Or, you could ask them advice. Be very nice and abysmally stupid. Act like you're ESL. Make them WORK for you to understand ANYTHING. See, most PKers are also nuts about teaching someone else their nonsense.
Explain that this is your "first day evahr" and "your dad let you play". Ask them for free crap. Act dumb as dirt.
Or, pretend you're a hot chick and get them to flirt with you. (Although only a rock-head would fall for that. If they're dumb enough for this, really grind it in.)
Or, pull out your sock account and stop one character while your other toon works nearby. That'd surely drive them nuts! As soon as he moves to one guy, the other guy starts working. Or recruit your friends to help.
I mean, if someone's going to kick sand in your face ... piss in theirs. It is a PK game for Pete's sake.
Short story for the simple: To solve your pain, inflict some on them. Just like Neo's cookie, by the time you've eaten it, you'll feel all better. Besides, anything else is wasted.
And I don't even play PK games. I'm a nice guy! =D
The worst part of this video is the fact that someone is disturbed enough to invest this much time into something so useless and so very negative, use the narration he does like he is some type of expert in the field of psychology and finally the inflection of his voice while describing what he is doing. This is a very disturbed individual - not a competitive gamer by any means.
It is my choice however to log in and pay for any video game and to log out when encountering anyone like this. Plenty of great people playing DFUW - he is just an isolated moron and you will find clones of him in every single MMO today so take those bans with a grain of salt. Being an asshat seems to be somewhat contagious.
Dude i first started reading and though "Nonono hardcore pvp games are supposed to have griefers" i was a pirate on eve for quite some time. but THIS is weird, they are like... psychologically fucking with people. it kinda is really sick.
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this game is fail, period; very soon will turn into a ghost town like DF1; and please, there are more griefers than the one mentioned; this is what open PvP brings in addition to non-griefers; nothing new; and the ban won't be permanent, otherwise you will get the ghost town sooner
Except UO was all about FFA, if not downright griefing before they hired that guy who never liked playing UO as it was, to change it into some carebear paradise. And my point is, UO was hugely successful BEFORE they carebearized it and never succeeded in growing much afterwards.
Darkfall promised to be a ruthless FFA sandbox but I see now that it's getting wow-ified.
And no, don't you assume I'm a griefer (I steal ore in Eve, that's about it). I'm actually quite the carebear in my gameplay but I appreciate danger and risk provided by players, as well as freedom of agency and speech.
Catering to whiny carebears never pays off. Their tears kill all games.
i like evil personally, in games I mean. IRL I just steer clear from evildoers.
But in games? They're life itself. Without them it IS a themepark for horrid whiners.
According to a commenter here, Aventurine did nothing to ban griefers before they revamped their game in the direction of WoW. Makes perfect sense to me. I was reading about Darkfall to see if I wanted to give it a try. This nails its coffin shut for me. What does Darkfall have compared to other games, if it doesn't have ruthlessness, risk and danger ? Yeah give me griefers. Give me death. Give me life !
Give me stupid bullies like the guy who repeats "what's in the mind of a gimp ?"
YES !!
And let me deal with them, adapt to their presence, and ENJOY the tremendous freedom that such a virtual world, that allows them has to offer.
Eve's best PR is when a scammer scams the worth of a real life house out of gullible marks.
Believe it or not, many people would be attracted to Darkfall (and have been) because griefing was tolerated. And not all these people are griefers. Some just enjoy life and understand death and taxes are part of it. Overprotection is the real killer. Bullies are flowers.
Except UO was all about FFA, if not downright griefing before they hired that guy who never liked playing UO as it was, to change it into some carebear paradise. And my point is, UO was hugely successful BEFORE they carebearized it and never succeeded in growing much afterwards.
Darkfall promised to be a ruthless FFA sandbox but I see now that it's getting wow-ified.
And no, don't you assume I'm a griefer (I steal ore in Eve, that's about it). I'm actually quite the carebear in my gameplay but I appreciate danger and risk provided by players, as well as freedom of agency and speech.
Catering to whiny carebears never pays off. Their tears kill all games.
LOL!
Uh, no. I played UO since it launched up to the great housing debacle in the split-world.
Players HATED the FFA FL and left in droves. That is why they finally split things up. The crazy "have a picnic!" people were the only ones left and the few real griefers.
That game was a ZOO and was empty for months before they changed it to split-world. They tried no less than 3 major shifts to stem the tide of people. UO's PKing was the MAJOR REASON EQ launched without PKing. It was a major selling point.
I mean, who didn't like the "gooder than you" system they installed near pre-split that allowed you to shapechange into a rat or something and have a newbie tag you. Once they did that, you carved them up, because you were better.
People RAN from the game in droves. The carebear (which is a griefer term btw) change did almost nothing to revive them. Players only played that game because it was the only one in town.
In fact, FFA FL loot kills any game that it is in. Players HATE it.
Since you seem new to the phenomena involved, let me illustrate the steps:
The game is created and players join; both casual and hardcore. FFA FL is enabled.
Newbies to the genre get massacred in droves in the newbie areas. They leave.
The wiser players have marshaled their resources and departed in groups.
3/4 of those in step 3 get slaughtered and camped by grief-groups or the top PKers.
All the second wave leave.
The grief-groups have no easy prey and they leave as they don't like being killed (by top PK guilds).
With around 1% of the player base, the top PK guilds beat each other down. As each one is beat, they have a problem rebuilidng and leave.
The game either changes (new) or closes (old).
Now, Darkfail crashed due to the FFA FL and hacking.
UO had a KILLER problem with hacking and it slaughtered the PK aspect of the game. Ever been 4x Corp Por-ed? It was an easy hack in UO.
Lots of stuff (due to lag) was handled on the client. Bad mistake as every bit of that was hackable. Fast movement, super-shooty death, aim-bots. You name it, it was there and hackable.
Nor could they fix it. Once it was on your client, it was yours.
Anyway, Darkfail changed their system to include a safety-area before getting slaughtered. It won't help them.
EVE, the ONLY 3A PK game still out there, has a fully-functional safety zone in place. That is the only reason they're still around. I wouldn't play it because the Devs cheat. *shrug* According to their numbers 90%+ stay in the protected zone. (I mostly did too except for some ore runs into low-sec.) The other parts of the game are owned by the PK guilds.
See, a PK game can only exist by having layers of victims. The top dogs kill the griefers who kill all the wanabes and victims (non PKers). Each level leaves in reverse order killing the game.
The only viable way to fix Darkfail would be to bolt-on an entire non-PK game in the lower tiers and make PKing the end-game. But, we know how that would end already.
My observation is people that play a PK FFA FL game deserve to be griefed and I'm not understanding what HOGG did was wrong. In fact, I found it amusing. (If trite.)
My argument as to why they were banned is they made it unclear if they were taking (whatever) after they griefed. I believe that'd be against the rules. Griefing wouldn't be.
If someone is going to play an FFA FL game, then they better get used to endless pain; either boredom (if they're in one of the top 3 PK guilds) or unlimited deaths (everyone else). Almost everyone will leave fairly shortly. (I'd say within 6 months at the longest.)
I mean, at its root I understand the fun. It is great to massacre other poor bastards that pretty much can't do a thing about it. Like kicking kids or punching cows. It puffs up your ego.
OTOH, it sucks ultra-ass to be smacked down and have no chance at all to defend yourself. Again and again.
Most people have a very LOW ratio of acceptable kills to deaths ratio. In order to be a PKer, you need to have probably over 1:100 in order to be safe. That'd mean you only win 1% of the time.
Fine, thanks for the great reply. I'll admit I wasn't around when UO was all over FFA. I played a PK server on early EQ but that's about it. So my claim about UO numbers was wrong.
Yet I still stand on my prefering risk, danger and even griefers to carebearing (overprotection to cater to gimps). I just watched the video. That griefer sounds quite OK to me. I certainly respect him more than a resources-harvesting achiever type.
And whom I respect less are the whiners calling for a jihad against griefers in this thread. You don't like it? Play another game, Hello Kitty Online is looking for players.
As for EVE's safe zone it isn't really a safe zone as your "a fully-functional safety zone" wording may lead people to believe. You can always get ganked in Eve's safe zone, as soon as you're outside a NPC station.
In fact the guy making the video is kind of a teacher. His input tends to teach and encourage gimps to leave the gimp gamestyle. A bit like PVPers do in EVE (You don't call them PKs, dude. In Eve, all pvpers are PKs:)
Yes "gimp" is totally a griefer word, bearing on psychopathology. My point is, we gimps need killers to help us man up.
And no, I don't buy your vampiric view of the griefer gameplay (Top killers kill medium killers kill killer-wannabes kill carebears, resulting in massive customer losses). Wanna talk about vampirism? Carebear tears are the worst.
The way I see it it's a natural order. You need predators otherwize it's the worst nightmarish, unnatural hell ever. You need culling, risk and death. Otherwize what you get is absence of drive. White nightmare.
"Yet I still stand on my prefering risk, danger and even griefers to carebearing (overprotection to cater to gimps). I just watched the video. That griefer sounds quite OK to me. I certainly respect him more than a resources-harvesting achiever type."
I get ya. However, most people abhor risk at all costs. Other people, that are risk-takers, are either young or mentally unstable. I'm guessing that you're younger.
The average age of an MMORPG gamer is somewhere near 26-30 (age unclear on Yee's website in that the date of the data wasn't given).
"As for EVE's safe zone it isn't really a safe zone as your "a fully-functional safety zone" wording may lead people to believe. You can always get ganked in Eve's safe zone, as soon as you're outside a NPC station."
That is true, but the penalties make that fairly uncommon. A good number of people feel fairly safe in high-sec space.
"A bit like PVPers do in EVE (You don't call them PKs, dude. In Eve, all pvpers are PKs:)"
All PVPers are PKs. The two terms are synonymous but not without variaton. I use PK because it applies the intent of my statements. In fact, I feel that the term PVP is disingenuous; as if they would engage in a fair fight 1:1. That is obviously not the case. Any reasonably intelligent PK picks its fight to be as one-sided as the rules allow.
"And no, I don't buy your vampiric view of the griefer gameplay (Top killers kill medium killers kill killer-wannabes kill carebears, resulting in massive customer losses)."
That's cool. My theory is built off of every FFA FL or other forced PK game I've seen. That includes MUDs. EQ 1, for instance, had PVP servers. They were almost empty even at peak and merged together at some point. EQ2, I believe had PVP servers and they were a minor niche. Admittedly, neither game was well balanced for it.
Now, RVR is a mechanic that some people seem to like; but by choice most people avoid even that. DAoC was an oddity (which I never played).
That theory follows both psychological and sociological pathways in every level of which I can think.
Aside from that, it sounds to me as if you're more inured to loss than most people. That is an admirable quality, and you'd probably do well in PK games.
By risk, would I take it, then, that you'd like a game with PVE Permadeath?
Comments
My challenge to a HOGG member.. Want to exert your "dominance" on the world? Ready to show us all who's really the BOSS HOGG? You guys should make videos in like a big city walking around and randomly calling people "gimps" as you try and interrupt what they are doing..
You know, that guy lifting weights trying to pump out those real life prowess points, go ahead and stand in front of him and pull his weights from him while calling him a gimp.. Show us how it's really done..
The internet just isn't hardcore enough, you guys need a bigger arena... Get famous..
sillynannies..
Just wanted to add was browing other comments noticed some people talking about legal action. It can already be done its called harrassment plain and simple in the most blunt terms which is in certain us states an arrestable offence as well as in I believe its texas and one other state near it have laws for cyber bullying but this group of people could even be considered a hate group and classified as such its all in having enough supportive evidence and wording things properly.
I love to grief in EVE, but over there it has a purpose lol....
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
You can find these people in any game or any sandbox in any crowded playground.
There are life lessons to be learned here.
These are called bullies and the same strategies work everywhere you face them.
1) Dont give them your power (like don't write an article about it or insult him in chat lol).
2) Dont waste any of your time on them (log off immediately and log back in a few minutes later and leave the zone if you have to).
3) Take pleasure in stopping them when you have the power to.
4) HAVE FUN WITH IT! (laugh it off .. ... smile ...). The instant you get angry, they won. They can smell it. They are just trying to piss you off and get attention.
Its like playing chess... and these guys probably aren't very good at chess. Think ahead.
It is a psychological thing that is traced back to being a little kid in a playground.
You can actually kill these people and take their stuff if you play the game long enough .....
get revenge!
I think AV did the right thing not banning them permanently. Its only a fishing skill. Who cares?
Why cant you just shrug if off instead of give them exactly what they want?
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I guess I'm going to sound like a dick, but ... let me see if I understand.
You're playing a FFA FL game and you're whining about someone play-griefing.
You guys seem to think it's wrong? Like you shouldn't do that?
*shakes head*
I'm having a hard time here. Is it because of the videos?
I mean, Darkfail is a PK game. Your entire goal is to make someone else miserable. You want to make other people have a bad day so you can have a good one. Seriously.
You aren't playing Tennis or Checkers or Football. You're out to kill them 20 to 1 if you could. It isn't remotely fair or honest or anything else. It isn't sportsman like and you won't get a trophy. If you could find a way to cheat, you should.
Why should you give a crap?
If this bothers you, quit. LOL! You aren't gonna make it. You REALLY aren't cut out for PK games.
Me, personally, I hate PK games. I won't play them because I find them either irritating or I ruin someone else's fun. I just don't get off doing that. If forced, however, I understand the game.
You need very thick skin and a clear-cut set of goals. You should expect to be jacked with every possible way, and you should do the same to everyone else you see. You should use every trick, beg, lie, cajole, flirt, steal, or backstab possible.
When someone jacks with you ... learn. Figure out what they're doing and put that tool in your box. Otherwise, you need to mitigate what they're doing and move on or avoid them.
Failing that, you're a victim. Reacting is what they're looking for. They want to get under your skin. They work on it.
Those guys in the videos, I suspect they're victims. If they were real. Most PKers have sock accounts.
The Hogg guys? They're unhappy. The only way they get happy is by ruining someone else's day. So, not only did they succeed in ruining their victim's day, they also apparently made some of you upset.
That would only make them smile. See, PKers are very small people that didn't get the ball in real life.
Online, in a game, they can make you miserable and not get the shit kicked out of them. If they could, they'd make you quit.
How would I've responded? I likely would've moved my mouse over to my other screen and did something else while my character just stood there.
Typically, PKers are like sharks. *looks at own photo and chuckles* (I seriously need to change that.)
Anyway, they HATE being bored, so just wait for a few mintues and they'll leave. I would (wait). Then I'd jack with them.
"Hey sugar pie! Where you goin? You can't even keep me from harvesting? Loser."
"Aw man. You actually stood there while I ate a sammich! ROFL! Go get me a beer."
Or open up a conversation with them. Tell them ALL about your "day". Make it boring or downright strange. Go to McDonalds and describe EVERYTHING. Ask them about finding men if they're playing a guy toon. Gay stuff makes most people uncomfortable, so see if it works on them. If they berate you, report them.
I mean, the possibilities are endless. Why would you possibly be upset?
I'd open up a weird ERP session and start-a-talkin. Maybe pop out a LARP fantasy with Tubby Furries or something. I'd try to figure out how much smack they could talk. Include their parents, wives, children, and pets.
I'm certain something pisses them off. I'd find it.
Hell, call'em Unkle Spiffy. Just keep calling them that like it's their name. Call'em Daddy!
If they act offended, ignore them and keep-a talkin'. Start following them if they leave (just don't go into PK land).
If you can, open up trade windows. Keep inviting them to group. Invite them to a guild if you can. Friend them. Send them email.
If you find out who their friends are, send them mail too. Make the messages about your new pal plain strange.
If your character has an emote that makes noise, write a macro that keeps doing it. Then do something else while it runs. I assure you that they'll get the worst end of the stick.
Or, you could ask them advice. Be very nice and abysmally stupid. Act like you're ESL. Make them WORK for you to understand ANYTHING. See, most PKers are also nuts about teaching someone else their nonsense.
Explain that this is your "first day evahr" and "your dad let you play". Ask them for free crap. Act dumb as dirt.
Or, pretend you're a hot chick and get them to flirt with you. (Although only a rock-head would fall for that. If they're dumb enough for this, really grind it in.)
Or, pull out your sock account and stop one character while your other toon works nearby. That'd surely drive them nuts! As soon as he moves to one guy, the other guy starts working. Or recruit your friends to help.
I mean, if someone's going to kick sand in your face ... piss in theirs. It is a PK game for Pete's sake.
Short story for the simple: To solve your pain, inflict some on them. Just like Neo's cookie, by the time you've eaten it, you'll feel all better. Besides, anything else is wasted.
And I don't even play PK games. I'm a nice guy! =D
The worst part of this video is the fact that someone is disturbed enough to invest this much time into something so useless and so very negative, use the narration he does like he is some type of expert in the field of psychology and finally the inflection of his voice while describing what he is doing. This is a very disturbed individual - not a competitive gamer by any means.
It is my choice however to log in and pay for any video game and to log out when encountering anyone like this. Plenty of great people playing DFUW - he is just an isolated moron and you will find clones of him in every single MMO today so take those bans with a grain of salt. Being an asshat seems to be somewhat contagious.
Except UO was all about FFA, if not downright griefing before they hired that guy who never liked playing UO as it was, to change it into some carebear paradise. And my point is, UO was hugely successful BEFORE they carebearized it and never succeeded in growing much afterwards.
Darkfall promised to be a ruthless FFA sandbox but I see now that it's getting wow-ified.
And no, don't you assume I'm a griefer (I steal ore in Eve, that's about it). I'm actually quite the carebear in my gameplay but I appreciate danger and risk provided by players, as well as freedom of agency and speech.
Catering to whiny carebears never pays off. Their tears kill all games.
>a prema ban
that's quite the lapsus, friend.
uprooting the evil before it even gets born...
i like evil personally, in games I mean. IRL I just steer clear from evildoers.
But in games? They're life itself. Without them it IS a themepark for horrid whiners.
According to a commenter here, Aventurine did nothing to ban griefers before they revamped their game in the direction of WoW. Makes perfect sense to me. I was reading about Darkfall to see if I wanted to give it a try. This nails its coffin shut for me. What does Darkfall have compared to other games, if it doesn't have ruthlessness, risk and danger ? Yeah give me griefers. Give me death. Give me life !
Give me stupid bullies like the guy who repeats "what's in the mind of a gimp ?"
YES !!
And let me deal with them, adapt to their presence, and ENJOY the tremendous freedom that such a virtual world, that allows them has to offer.
Eve's best PR is when a scammer scams the worth of a real life house out of gullible marks.
Believe it or not, many people would be attracted to Darkfall (and have been) because griefing was tolerated. And not all these people are griefers. Some just enjoy life and understand death and taxes are part of it. Overprotection is the real killer. Bullies are flowers.
LOL!
Uh, no. I played UO since it launched up to the great housing debacle in the split-world.
Players HATED the FFA FL and left in droves. That is why they finally split things up. The crazy "have a picnic!" people were the only ones left and the few real griefers.
That game was a ZOO and was empty for months before they changed it to split-world. They tried no less than 3 major shifts to stem the tide of people. UO's PKing was the MAJOR REASON EQ launched without PKing. It was a major selling point.
I mean, who didn't like the "gooder than you" system they installed near pre-split that allowed you to shapechange into a rat or something and have a newbie tag you. Once they did that, you carved them up, because you were better.
People RAN from the game in droves. The carebear (which is a griefer term btw) change did almost nothing to revive them. Players only played that game because it was the only one in town.
In fact, FFA FL loot kills any game that it is in. Players HATE it.
Since you seem new to the phenomena involved, let me illustrate the steps:
Fine, thanks for the great reply. I'll admit I wasn't around when UO was all over FFA. I played a PK server on early EQ but that's about it. So my claim about UO numbers was wrong.
Yet I still stand on my prefering risk, danger and even griefers to carebearing (overprotection to cater to gimps). I just watched the video. That griefer sounds quite OK to me. I certainly respect him more than a resources-harvesting achiever type.
And whom I respect less are the whiners calling for a jihad against griefers in this thread. You don't like it? Play another game, Hello Kitty Online is looking for players.
As for EVE's safe zone it isn't really a safe zone as your "a fully-functional safety zone" wording may lead people to believe. You can always get ganked in Eve's safe zone, as soon as you're outside a NPC station.
In fact the guy making the video is kind of a teacher. His input tends to teach and encourage gimps to leave the gimp gamestyle. A bit like PVPers do in EVE (You don't call them PKs, dude. In Eve, all pvpers are PKs:)
Yes "gimp" is totally a griefer word, bearing on psychopathology. My point is, we gimps need killers to help us man up.
And no, I don't buy your vampiric view of the griefer gameplay (Top killers kill medium killers kill killer-wannabes kill carebears, resulting in massive customer losses). Wanna talk about vampirism? Carebear tears are the worst.
The way I see it it's a natural order. You need predators otherwize it's the worst nightmarish, unnatural hell ever. You need culling, risk and death. Otherwize what you get is absence of drive. White nightmare.
"Yet I still stand on my prefering risk, danger and even griefers to carebearing (overprotection to cater to gimps). I just watched the video. That griefer sounds quite OK to me. I certainly respect him more than a resources-harvesting achiever type."
I get ya. However, most people abhor risk at all costs. Other people, that are risk-takers, are either young or mentally unstable. I'm guessing that you're younger.
The average age of an MMORPG gamer is somewhere near 26-30 (age unclear on Yee's website in that the date of the data wasn't given).
"As for EVE's safe zone it isn't really a safe zone as your "a fully-functional safety zone" wording may lead people to believe. You can always get ganked in Eve's safe zone, as soon as you're outside a NPC station."
That is true, but the penalties make that fairly uncommon. A good number of people feel fairly safe in high-sec space.
"A bit like PVPers do in EVE (You don't call them PKs, dude. In Eve, all pvpers are PKs:)"
All PVPers are PKs. The two terms are synonymous but not without variaton. I use PK because it applies the intent of my statements. In fact, I feel that the term PVP is disingenuous; as if they would engage in a fair fight 1:1. That is obviously not the case. Any reasonably intelligent PK picks its fight to be as one-sided as the rules allow.
"And no, I don't buy your vampiric view of the griefer gameplay (Top killers kill medium killers kill killer-wannabes kill carebears, resulting in massive customer losses)."
That's cool. My theory is built off of every FFA FL or other forced PK game I've seen. That includes MUDs. EQ 1, for instance, had PVP servers. They were almost empty even at peak and merged together at some point. EQ2, I believe had PVP servers and they were a minor niche. Admittedly, neither game was well balanced for it.
Now, RVR is a mechanic that some people seem to like; but by choice most people avoid even that. DAoC was an oddity (which I never played).
That theory follows both psychological and sociological pathways in every level of which I can think.
Aside from that, it sounds to me as if you're more inured to loss than most people. That is an admirable quality, and you'd probably do well in PK games.
By risk, would I take it, then, that you'd like a game with PVE Permadeath?