It would make sense. They had a set release date they had to meet in order to coincide with the tv show. Most MMOs miss their first release date, so I'm sure Trion over staffed themselves in order to get the game out and make it relatively playable. Now that the game is released and they have no looming deadline they can streamline development. Defiance was a little to amibitious of a project for Trion. Despite its flaws its still a relatively entertaining experience. If it wasn't for the deadline that had to be met I'm sure it could have been a great game.
Originally posted by Town420 This isn't even news. Every single mmo does this after launch.
EQ didnt
WoW didnt
GW2 didnt
Rift didnt
LOTRO didnt
Name *one* MMORPG that laid off people after a solid launch.
I know some people dont want tto ignore common sense, but the evidence points OVERWHELMINGLY towards: layoffs happen when a game or company performs poorly.
Do this: find as many layoff announcements as you can, then make two columns. 1st column: Y/N: was the game or company performing poorly at the time and 2nd column: Y/N was there a game or expansion release in the last 3 months by the team affected by layoffs.
The second column will have plenty of Ns mixed in with the Ys but the first column will be almost all Ys.
Oh look! Another corporation spinning layoffs as a good thing motivated by their commitment to deliver improvements.
Same old shit. Translation: "We ain't doing so well but if we admit it, we'll do even worse."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Wow, I've never realized how many people on here are just either a) dumb b) unaware c) trolling.
Layoffs are NORMALLY in the game industry... you build a game, you build a team, you get close to launch or post launch (after the first round of bug fixes), and then you layoff the majority whom are no longer needed.
I'm not your researcher but layoffs happen. And then the people whine and move on to other places. Blizzard laid of people at the HEIGHT of their population. Did they need the money? Were they strapped to lay these people off to save a buck? No. They weren't needed for the current development cycle.
Just because it isn't normal in your burger flipping professions doesn't mean it isn't the norm elsewhere. As people who work in Semi-Conductor industries... layoffs come and go like a sine wave. (look it up)
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Nope... and in most of their cases they instantly belittle me with the nit picks of the specifics of each situation. Oh it was just customer service, oh it was just this, oh that wasn't exactly a month after launch.... etc, etc.
And to the person above who claimed that half of those games had successful launches is just as deluded. As someone who experienced the WoW launch first hand, heads rolled over that.
Then I post an article with actual 2012 numbers and that isn't enough.
People, feel free to move to Iran... they re-write history there every day.
I read somewhere that Bill Nigh got boo'd out of a Texas college because he said the moon merely reflected the sun and the insinuation that the Bible was not completely accurate. Regardless of the fact that people HAVE been to the moon, the moon does NOT in fact produce it's own light, and this person had the GALL to point out these obvious facts to the crowd.
Defiance was so mediocre and unfinished that this comes as no surprise
When you make an MMO for a tv show that's already been canceled for being terrible you've already got the worst word of mouth you could possibly imagine
The tv show has been renewed for a second season. But I do agree that the game is mediocre.
That was set before even the game released. A Third season won't be coming. Unless they make some drastic changes and come up With more interesting episodes. As Viewer ratings continue to go Down. So I think right now SyFy is whishing they did not renew for second season. Especially now the game is tanking!
As there were a hell lot better TV series that got canceled after the first season.
Right now, I stopped watching 2 weeks ago after Episode 3. As so far only the Pilot was interesting, after that it became a borefest. Just like the game.
ArenaNet didn't lay off anyone, because GW2 is doing well.
These massive lay offs are NOT normal! People have gotten used to seeing it happening, because so many MMOs have FAILED to keep any retention after launch and were forced to cut!
When you succesfully launch an MMO, you keep the team intact, just move Resources from the primary development team to the expansion and live teams.
But Yeah.... if Your game fails misserably (like now DEFIANCE) and start losing Money rapidly, you have to start swinging the lay off Axe.
LOL
Posts like this are the reason I browse this site. So full of misinformation, hyperbole and hot air simply because you do not like something. A tip: the truth is the truth, no matter how much you pretend it isn't true. Stop lying.
Defiance is scoring higher in the ratings than any program Syfy has shown since 2009. It's faring very well with non-typical audiences, and if syfy can tame the beast and iron out the creases Defiance could be sticking around for the long haul. It's only ever been billed as a short run series (4 seasons, 13 episodes each, have been hinted at so far from what I've read).
Anyway, regardless of the game... Syfy are not likely to be kicking themselves about a show that's landing 2 million + viewers per episode. I'm sure they're quietly pleased with how things have gone.
Anyway, regardless of the game... Syfy are not likely to be kicking themselves about a show that's landing 2 million + viewers per episode. I'm sure they're quietly pleased with how things have gone.
Defiance ratings to date (Episode #, viewers in millions, Adults 18-49 rating):
Nope... and in most of their cases they instantly belittle me with the nit picks of the specifics of each situation. Oh it was just customer service, oh it was just this, oh that wasn't exactly a month after launch.... etc, etc.
And to the person above who claimed that half of those games had successful launches is just as deluded. As someone who experienced the WoW launch first hand, heads rolled over that.
Then I post an article with actual 2012 numbers and that isn't enough.
People, feel free to move to Iran... they re-write history there every day.
I read somewhere that Bill Nigh got boo'd out of a Texas college because he said the moon merely reflected the sun and the insinuation that the Bible was not completely accurate. Regardless of the fact that people HAVE been to the moon, the moon does NOT in fact produce it's own light, and this person had the GALL to point out these obvious facts to the crowd.
Actual 2012 numbers where you are comparing layoffs of 8 to 9 years old games with one that is barely a month old.
So much for your facts. Your comparisons would make more sense if all other games were hit by lay offs just a months after the initial release.
Twisting the facts is what all you did to make a point here. And i am still waiting for you to answer me why Anet didn't lay off anyone if it is a standard? since both Defiance and GW2 follow same model and plan to release regular content updates.
Can you give example of any successful MMO where people were laid off within first 2 months?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Defiance was so mediocre and unfinished that this comes as no surprise
When you make an MMO for a tv show that's already been canceled for being terrible you've already got the worst word of mouth you could possibly imagine
Nope... and in most of their cases they instantly belittle me with the nit picks of the specifics of each situation. Oh it was just customer service, oh it was just this, oh that wasn't exactly a month after launch.... etc, etc.
And to the person above who claimed that half of those games had successful launches is just as deluded. As someone who experienced the WoW launch first hand, heads rolled over that.
Then I post an article with actual 2012 numbers and that isn't enough.
People, feel free to move to Iran... they re-write history there every day.
I read somewhere that Bill Nigh got boo'd out of a Texas college because he said the moon merely reflected the sun and the insinuation that the Bible was not completely accurate. Regardless of the fact that people HAVE been to the moon, the moon does NOT in fact produce it's own light, and this person had the GALL to point out these obvious facts to the crowd.
Actual 2012 numbers where you are comparing layoffs of 8 to 9 years old games with one that is barely a month old.
So much for your facts. Your comparisons would make more sense if all other games were hit by lay offs just a months after the initial release.
Twisting the facts is what all you did to make a point here. And i am still waiting for you to answer me why Anet didn't lay off anyone if it is a standard? since both Defiance and GW2 follow same model and plan to release regular content updates.
Can you give example of any successful MMO where people were laid off within first 2 months?
You are not comparing apples to apples, if GW2 had a hard launch date, on 3 platforms (both sony and Microsoft have certifications that you have to pass, major pain in the ass for developers), also if GW2 was cowritten with a TV show. The number of extra effort needed to make this happen in the last three months prior to hard launch, I bet any studio would be laying off the folks they added the last 3 months for that final push.
Granted you know it for a fact.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Doogiehowser Originally posted by IkedaOriginally posted by waynejr2 Do you think facts will change their thinking? I
Nope... and in most of their cases they instantly belittle me with the nit picks of the specifics of each situation. Oh it was just customer service, oh it was just this, oh that wasn't exactly a month after launch.... etc, etc.And to the person above who claimed that half of those games had successful launches is just as deluded. As someone who experienced the WoW launch first hand, heads rolled over that.Then I post an article with actual 2012 numbers and that isn't enough.People, feel free to move to Iran... they re-write history there every day.I read somewhere that Bill Nigh got boo'd out of a Texas college because he said the moon merely reflected the sun and the insinuation that the Bible was not completely accurate. Regardless of the fact that people HAVE been to the moon, the moon does NOT in fact produce it's own light, and this person had the GALL to point out these obvious facts to the crowd.Actual 2012 numbers where you are comparing layoffs of 8 to 9 years old games with one that is barely a month old.
So much for your facts. Your comparisons would make more sense if all other games were hit by lay offs just a months after the initial release.
Twisting the facts is what all you did to make a point here. And i am still waiting for you to answer me why Anet didn't lay off anyone if it is a standard? since both Defiance and GW2 follow same model and plan to release regular content updates.
Can you give example of any successful MMO where people were laid off within first 2 months?
Trion runs more than one game. The announcement of Rift's shift to a F2P model, these layoffs and Defiance's release were very close together. Not to mention the MMORTS that didn't get off the ground. None of these things are isolated.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Why is this still news? Happens to every MMO since the days of EQ. Once systems are developed, you only need a fraction of man-power to release expansions. This is why game developers need a union. Now they have to search for new jobs, change health care providers, etc..
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
Originally posted by Daranar Why is this still news? Happens to every MMO since the days of EQ. Once systems are developed, you only need a fraction of man-power to release expansions. This is why game developers need a union. Now they have to search for new jobs, change health care providers, etc..
Ok, if this has happened to every MMO since EQ you should be able to find news about layoffs within the first 3 months for the following releases:
Everquest (vanilla)
Ruins of Kunark
Scars of Velious
Shadows of Luclin
Planes of Power
Gates of Discord
Omens of War
World of Warcraft (vanilla)
Burning Crusade
WOTLK
Cataclysm
Mists of Pandaria (this one was a very recent release, should be super easy to find news since this happens to all releases, right?)
LOTRO (Vanilla)
Mines of Moria
EvE Online
Everquest 2 (Vanilla)
Desert of Flames
Kingdom of Sky
Guild Wars 2
Rift (Vanilla)
Now the EQ games maybe you could say were too long ago to find articles. but everything else should be no problem. If this is business as usual i would imagine youd be able to find articles for half of these within 5 minutes.
Originally posted by Kuppa Guys this and f2p for rift is not a coincidence.
For many, the sand is tempting to the head
It sucks what's happening to Trion and it sucks for the people that are enjoying their games, but it should be pretty clear what's going on at the moment.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by DMKano It is business as usual given the circumstances in my post above. Stop and think about it for a second, makes perfect sense. Defiance launch was pretty unique and unlike other titles.
You know what else makes sense? How every single MMORPG layoff announcement that I have ever seen has come at a time where either a company or a title is performing poorly. And Defiance definitely was a poorly received game and Trion has had issues with the EoN debacle and declining Rift subs (this isnt their first series of layoffs). But hey, if you want to ignore the obvious reasons and stick to the one you desperately want it to be, go ahead. Nearly all layoff announcements coincide with poor performance. However there are quite a few layoff announcements that arent within 3 months after a release (see Mythic 2007, Blizzard 2012, most SoE layoffs, etc)
Comments
EQ didnt
WoW didnt
GW2 didnt
Rift didnt
LOTRO didnt
Name *one* MMORPG that laid off people after a solid launch.
I know some people dont want tto ignore common sense, but the evidence points OVERWHELMINGLY towards: layoffs happen when a game or company performs poorly.
Do this: find as many layoff announcements as you can, then make two columns. 1st column: Y/N: was the game or company performing poorly at the time and 2nd column: Y/N was there a game or expansion release in the last 3 months by the team affected by layoffs.
The second column will have plenty of Ns mixed in with the Ys but the first column will be almost all Ys.
Oh look! Another corporation spinning layoffs as a good thing motivated by their commitment to deliver improvements.
Same old shit. Translation: "We ain't doing so well but if we admit it, we'll do even worse."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Boom! +1
Do you think facts will change their thinking? I
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Nope... and in most of their cases they instantly belittle me with the nit picks of the specifics of each situation. Oh it was just customer service, oh it was just this, oh that wasn't exactly a month after launch.... etc, etc.
And to the person above who claimed that half of those games had successful launches is just as deluded. As someone who experienced the WoW launch first hand, heads rolled over that.
Then I post an article with actual 2012 numbers and that isn't enough.
People, feel free to move to Iran... they re-write history there every day.
I read somewhere that Bill Nigh got boo'd out of a Texas college because he said the moon merely reflected the sun and the insinuation that the Bible was not completely accurate. Regardless of the fact that people HAVE been to the moon, the moon does NOT in fact produce it's own light, and this person had the GALL to point out these obvious facts to the crowd.
So true.
Sad too that this occurs so much.
This is single sentence sums up the gaming industry perfectly.
LOL
Posts like this are the reason I browse this site. So full of misinformation, hyperbole and hot air simply because you do not like something. A tip: the truth is the truth, no matter how much you pretend it isn't true. Stop lying.
Defiance is scoring higher in the ratings than any program Syfy has shown since 2009. It's faring very well with non-typical audiences, and if syfy can tame the beast and iron out the creases Defiance could be sticking around for the long haul. It's only ever been billed as a short run series (4 seasons, 13 episodes each, have been hinted at so far from what I've read).
Anyway, regardless of the game... Syfy are not likely to be kicking themselves about a show that's landing 2 million + viewers per episode. I'm sure they're quietly pleased with how things have gone.
Brilliantly honest and spot on.
Defiance ratings to date (Episode #, viewers in millions, Adults 18-49 rating):
E01: 2.70 1.0
E02: 2.40 0.8
E03: 2.30 0.8
E04: 2.15 0.8
E05: 1.98 0.6
Not saying it's time to pull the plug, but for a supposed huge success the trend ain't what I'd call encouraging...
Actual 2012 numbers where you are comparing layoffs of 8 to 9 years old games with one that is barely a month old.
So much for your facts. Your comparisons would make more sense if all other games were hit by lay offs just a months after the initial release.
Twisting the facts is what all you did to make a point here. And i am still waiting for you to answer me why Anet didn't lay off anyone if it is a standard? since both Defiance and GW2 follow same model and plan to release regular content updates.
Can you give example of any successful MMO where people were laid off within first 2 months?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
http://www.seat42f.com/syfy-renews-defiance-for-a-second-season.html
"Syfy has renewed its groundbreaking series Defiance, giving a 13-episode second seasonn"
where was it stated that the show was canceled?
Granted you know it for a fact.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
it's a sad day in defiance.
Actual 2012 numbers where you are comparing layoffs of 8 to 9 years old games with one that is barely a month old.
So much for your facts. Your comparisons would make more sense if all other games were hit by lay offs just a months after the initial release.
Twisting the facts is what all you did to make a point here. And i am still waiting for you to answer me why Anet didn't lay off anyone if it is a standard? since both Defiance and GW2 follow same model and plan to release regular content updates.
Can you give example of any successful MMO where people were laid off within first 2 months?
Trion runs more than one game. The announcement of Rift's shift to a F2P model, these layoffs and Defiance's release were very close together. Not to mention the MMORTS that didn't get off the ground. None of these things are isolated.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It's sad to hear that people are losing jobs, even in the industry where poor working conditions and job instability are legendary.
With all fairness, Defiance is a flop. No wonder as the game is generic at best.
DERKA DURRRR!
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
Ok, if this has happened to every MMO since EQ you should be able to find news about layoffs within the first 3 months for the following releases:
Everquest (vanilla)
Ruins of Kunark
Scars of Velious
Shadows of Luclin
Planes of Power
Gates of Discord
Omens of War
World of Warcraft (vanilla)
Burning Crusade
WOTLK
Cataclysm
Mists of Pandaria (this one was a very recent release, should be super easy to find news since this happens to all releases, right?)
LOTRO (Vanilla)
Mines of Moria
EvE Online
Everquest 2 (Vanilla)
Desert of Flames
Kingdom of Sky
Guild Wars 2
Rift (Vanilla)
Now the EQ games maybe you could say were too long ago to find articles. but everything else should be no problem. If this is business as usual i would imagine youd be able to find articles for half of these within 5 minutes.
Ill be waiting for those links...
For many, the sand is tempting to the head
It sucks what's happening to Trion and it sucks for the people that are enjoying their games, but it should be pretty clear what's going on at the moment.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
You know what else makes sense? How every single MMORPG layoff announcement that I have ever seen has come at a time where either a company or a title is performing poorly. And Defiance definitely was a poorly received game and Trion has had issues with the EoN debacle and declining Rift subs (this isnt their first series of layoffs). But hey, if you want to ignore the obvious reasons and stick to the one you desperately want it to be, go ahead. Nearly all layoff announcements coincide with poor performance. However there are quite a few layoff announcements that arent within 3 months after a release (see Mythic 2007, Blizzard 2012, most SoE layoffs, etc)