I would love to try GW2, but they dot offer a trial. I honestly think this is ridiculous. The game looks well polished and unique in some ways(and not in others). I was not a GW1 player so I dont know exactly what to expect. I have watched vids/screenshots/reviews/non-sense forum posts/etc, but in the end you have to form your own opinion. I just refuse to give them $60 to try the game for a few days. I even emailed support and told them that to see if they would give me an access code to try for 3-4 days.. wasnt happening(worth a shot! lol) . There was a free weekend last month unfortunately I wasnt around and able to play during that time period.
It could help the population/game sales if they would allow people a free week.. I also want to point out that I am not cheap or want to take advantage of their hard work. I just simply like to try MMO's before I commit as there has been so many disappointments the last few years. I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
No i don't think you are being cheap. Trying a game before buying is a very smart thing to do.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I would love to try GW2, but they dot offer a trial. I honestly think this is ridiculous. The game looks well polished and unique in some ways(and not in others). I was not a GW1 player so I dont know exactly what to expect. I have watched vids/screenshots/reviews/non-sense forum posts/etc, but in the end you have to form your own opinion. I just refuse to give them $60 to try the game for a few days. I even emailed support and told them that to see if they would give me an access code to try for 3-4 days.. wasnt happening(worth a shot! lol) . There was a free weekend last month unfortunately I wasnt around and able to play during that time period.
It could help the population/game sales if they would allow people a free week.. I also want to point out that I am not cheap or want to take advantage of their hard work. I just simply like to try MMO's before I commit as there has been so many disappointments the last few years. I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
They did and will. They had a free trial weekend. T he problem with free trials is the gold spammers use that to steal real accounts.
I would love to try GW2, but they dot offer a trial. I honestly think this is ridiculous. The game looks well polished and unique in some ways(and not in others). I was not a GW1 player so I dont know exactly what to expect. I have watched vids/screenshots/reviews/non-sense forum posts/etc, but in the end you have to form your own opinion. I just refuse to give them $60 to try the game for a few days. I even emailed support and told them that to see if they would give me an access code to try for 3-4 days.. wasnt happening(worth a shot! lol) . There was a free weekend last month unfortunately I wasnt around and able to play during that time period.
It could help the population/game sales if they would allow people a free week.. I also want to point out that I am not cheap or want to take advantage of their hard work. I just simply like to try MMO's before I commit as there has been so many disappointments the last few years. I am sure I am not the only one in this boat.
Youll just have to wait till another free weekend
Game isnt going anywhere and its never too late to get into
That's a lot of players. I don't understand why you are trying to make a distinction. F2P players use Raptr too. SWTOR has 500k subs and 1.7 million F2P players. That's 2.2 million. GW2 is even more impressive because you actually have to buy the game to get your Raptr account updating the numbers whereas SWTOR users can be F2P and use Raptr. The only reason those other games are above SWTOR and GW2 right now are:
1. Rift had a crazy promotion for Raptr like you said.
2. Neverwinter is new.
3. Defiance is new.
I mean, at least give these games 9 months before you start announcing that they have better retention or whatever.
I agree with you, they do use Raptr. But here is the key word that is pretty much the main point of this thread, it is retention. According to the stats for Tera (1.4 million NA, 500K EU). So Tera added about 2 million new players. Do they have 2 million players? Obviously not.
You know how competitive the MMO market is? Just this year we will probably see 4 "new" big MMOs (ArcheAge, WildStar, ESO, FFXIV:AAR). And most players will flock to them. In 9 months time, the MMO we are talking about now, probably will be ancient history really. So I like to talk about the present.
Oh, I think what you're trying to say is that SWTOR does not have 1.7 million F2P players that logged in within the last month. Or maybe you're trying to say they don't play as much so they don't matter as much. I'm not sure. But your Raptr numbers mixed with facts = GW2 has pretty damn good retention.
What I am trying say is that when games go F2P especially F2P games you see a surge of players try it because of low barrier to entry, most players probably don't play past the same day if I am any indication. Just because you played the game once or created an account, doesn't mean you are a player a year after the fact if you haven't played it after that first day.
If Raptr showed data by month we could see how well the MMO was doing over time. But they don't, Xfire does.
Regardless, the only thing that would show actual retention is developer data. Let us say for argument sake 100% of the players left last month. And 100% of new players replaced them. The stats would be the same, but there was horrible retention of players.
In the MMORPG panel Jeremy Gaffney said even good MMOs (like WoW) churn 5-10% of the population every month (As much as 80% in 8 months). But the good MMOs bring in new users to replace them. If that is true then something like 73% drop in sales is not a good sign, especially for a MMO as average as GW2.
Originally posted by muffins89 a lot of people are about to tell you it's just the server that you're on.
Heh, you were right. Fans always have that excuse, even with SWTOR when it sank, people couldn't find anyone to group with on the most popular servers. They consolidated, then added free to play to fill in the gap with the cheap F2P crowd.
What I am trying say is that when games go F2P especially F2P games you see a surge of players try it because of low barrier to entry, most players probably don't play past the same day if I am any indication. Just because you played the game once or created an account, doesn't mean you are a player a year after the fact if you haven't played it after that first day.
If Raptr showed data by month we could see how well the MMO was doing. But they don't, Xfire does.
Regardless, the only thing that would show actual retention is developer data. Let us say for argument sake 100% of the players left last month. And 100% of new players replaced them. The stats would be the same, but there was horrible retention of players.
In the MMORPG panel Jeremy Gaffney said even good MMOs churn 5-10% of the population every month. But the good MMOs bring in new users to replace them.
Well, now you are talking about churn which is something we will only know if the developer tells us. They almost never do. I would say that because people actually have to pay to play GW2, that would point towards there being far less churn in GW2 than there is in SWTOR.
See, we were talking about in game populations and not churn up until your Raptr broke. If I remember correctly, the churn in WoW for example was around what you were talking about. The population in the US and Asia got all the way up to 12 million. The game was obviously not in trouble of having regular players even though there was a constant churn of players going on.
Are we still on the line "look at SWTOR fans defended it as well"?
SWTOR had server merges and layoffs within 4 months of launch.
4 Months!
When SWTOR was 8 months old, as GW2 is now, it already was F2P.
TSW had layoffs and converted to b2p in less than 6 months.
TERA converted to F2P in less than 6 months.
I haven't heard of Mike O'Brien either in the last few months.
Did he stop being Arenanet president as well. These conspiracy theories.
The fact that there has been zero communication from the lead game designer of a game on the forums, blogs or anything since launch should tell you something. I think he might have left but usually when you leave you have clauses in your contract saying you can't speak for a certain amount of time. That happened with Tera when Patrick Wyatt left. Maybe Mike O'Brien left too? I haven't looked, but he isn't the LEAD game designer.
About servers, SWTOR launched with 200+ servers. GW2 launched with 51.
Are we still on the line "look at SWTOR fans defended it as well"?
SWTOR had server merges and layoffs within 4 months of launch.
4 Months!
When SWTOR was 8 months old, as GW2 is now, it already was F2P.
TSW had layoffs and converted to b2p in less than 6 months.
TERA converted to F2P in less than 6 months.
I haven't heard of Mike O'Brien either in the last few months.
Did he stop being Arenanet president as well. These conspiracy theories.
The fact that there has been zero communication from the lead game designer of a game on the forums, blogs or anything since launch should tell you something. I think he might have left but usually when you leave you have clauses in your contract saying you can't speak for a certain amount of time. That happened with Tera when Patrick Wyatt left. Maybe Mike O'Brien left too? I haven't looked, but he isn't the LEAD game designer.
About servers, SWTOR launched with 200+ servers. GW2 launched with 51.
Originally posted by Madimorga I just log in and goof off and do dailies because there is no sub fee. I don't see other players much except in Lion's Arch. I expect when Rift goes free Guild Wars 2 will empty out even more, at least for awhile. Then some players might drift back. Honestly for me the shiny on this game wore off when I realized that they didn't mean what they said about play your way. Too many disadvantages to not teaming. Like loot drops and of course those silly grindy endgame fractal things.
The game wore thin for me when I realized their innovation for a quest less experience included doing things for NPCs that they normally should have to do themselves, like watering their crops, feeding their cows, and cleaning graffiti off their building walls. Tasks that seem to me to be very lazy development. Not to mention that this dynamic content meant for the public world are dreadfully easy compared to parts of the personal story.
Are we still on the line "look at SWTOR fans defended it as well"?
SWTOR had server merges and layoffs within 4 months of launch.
4 Months!
When SWTOR was 8 months old, as GW2 is now, it already was F2P.
TSW had layoffs and converted to b2p in less than 6 months.
TERA converted to F2P in less than 6 months.
I haven't heard of Mike O'Brien either in the last few months.
Did he stop being Arenanet president as well. These conspiracy theories.
He is probably quiet because he learned to keep his mouth shut after making statements like 'we won't rest till we beat WOW and become number one'.
GW2 decline in population can not be compared to any P2P MMO though because of the payment model. Now if GW2 was P2P it would be a different story.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Are we still on the line "look at SWTOR fans defended it as well"?
SWTOR had server merges and layoffs within 4 months of launch.
4 Months!
When SWTOR was 8 months old, as GW2 is now, it already was F2P.
TSW had layoffs and converted to b2p in less than 6 months.
TERA converted to F2P in less than 6 months.
I haven't heard of Mike O'Brien either in the last few months.
Did he stop being Arenanet president as well. These conspiracy theories.
He is probably quiet because he learned to keep his mouth shut after making statements like 'we won't rest till we beat WOW and become number one'.
GW2 decline in population can not be compared to any P2P MMO though because of the payment model. Now if GW2 was P2P it would be a different story.
At the rate WoW is losing subs it might not be long.
WOW has been losing subs for years now.... 'long' is very vague. But it is a nice dream none the less.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Pivotelite Honestly, it really is pathetically dead in most zones, even in cities, they should reduce the number of servers in half in my opinion.
Honestly a better solution in this competitive market is going F2P. That is the only way I see it revive in terms of population. Especially with the quality MMOs coming out soon.
Solution: Stop making linear based zones!! Stop making nice neat zones for "1-10", "11-20" etc... MAKE A WORLD.. One where there are things for ALL level ranges to do in a single zone.. The linearity train goes one direction and when its gone, it's gone..
Originally posted by Pivotelite Honestly, it really is pathetically dead in most zones, even in cities, they should reduce the number of servers in half in my opinion.
Which server, which zones?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
You mean a 9 year old game's expansion is not selling like hot cakes anymore? wow..what a shocker.. *rolls eyes*
Last October MOP sales were 2.7 million.
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
It is a speeding trend though.
And I doubt anyone is annoyed with Mike O'Brien for beating NCSoft expectations.
Again, been there done that. heard this million times already. And it is not about being annoyed but mocking the silly statements like 'we are gonna beat WOW'. I guess neither players or devs learn anything from past.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter All these solutions to imaginary problems.
It's not an imaginary problem, the leveling system in MMOs is flawed, it leaves barren wastelands only a few months after launch unless the game is constantly bringing in players(F2P for example).
GW2 is just another one of those MMOs where once the initial burst of players wear of the game experience becomes terrible while leveling and you're stuck alone with NPCs and Bots.
Comments
No i don't think you are being cheap. Trying a game before buying is a very smart thing to do.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
They did and will. They had a free trial weekend. T he problem with free trials is the gold spammers use that to steal real accounts.
Youll just have to wait till another free weekend
Game isnt going anywhere and its never too late to get into
What I am trying say is that when games go F2P especially F2P games you see a surge of players try it because of low barrier to entry, most players probably don't play past the same day if I am any indication. Just because you played the game once or created an account, doesn't mean you are a player a year after the fact if you haven't played it after that first day.
If Raptr showed data by month we could see how well the MMO was doing over time. But they don't, Xfire does.
Regardless, the only thing that would show actual retention is developer data. Let us say for argument sake 100% of the players left last month. And 100% of new players replaced them. The stats would be the same, but there was horrible retention of players.
In the MMORPG panel Jeremy Gaffney said even good MMOs (like WoW) churn 5-10% of the population every month (As much as 80% in 8 months). But the good MMOs bring in new users to replace them. If that is true then something like 73% drop in sales is not a good sign, especially for a MMO as average as GW2.
Heh, you were right. Fans always have that excuse, even with SWTOR when it sank, people couldn't find anyone to group with on the most popular servers. They consolidated, then added free to play to fill in the gap with the cheap F2P crowd.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Well, now you are talking about churn which is something we will only know if the developer tells us. They almost never do. I would say that because people actually have to pay to play GW2, that would point towards there being far less churn in GW2 than there is in SWTOR.
See, we were talking about in game populations and not churn up until your Raptr broke. If I remember correctly, the churn in WoW for example was around what you were talking about. The population in the US and Asia got all the way up to 12 million. The game was obviously not in trouble of having regular players even though there was a constant churn of players going on.
Are we still on the line "look at SWTOR fans defended it as well"?
SWTOR had server merges and layoffs within 4 months of launch.
4 Months!
When SWTOR was 8 months old, as GW2 is now, it already was F2P.
TSW had layoffs and converted to b2p in less than 6 months.
TERA converted to F2P in less than 6 months.
I haven't heard of Mike O'Brien either in the last few months.
Did he stop being Arenanet president as well. These conspiracy theories.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Yeah, it's crazy how obvious the difference is. They don't want to believe that something they don't like is liked by so many people.
The fact that there has been zero communication from the lead game designer of a game on the forums, blogs or anything since launch should tell you something. I think he might have left but usually when you leave you have clauses in your contract saying you can't speak for a certain amount of time. That happened with Tera when Patrick Wyatt left. Maybe Mike O'Brien left too? I haven't looked, but he isn't the LEAD game designer.
About servers, SWTOR launched with 200+ servers. GW2 launched with 51.
And now SWTOR has 20.
The game wore thin for me when I realized their innovation for a quest less experience included doing things for NPCs that they normally should have to do themselves, like watering their crops, feeding their cows, and cleaning graffiti off their building walls. Tasks that seem to me to be very lazy development. Not to mention that this dynamic content meant for the public world are dreadfully easy compared to parts of the personal story.
He is probably quiet because he learned to keep his mouth shut after making statements like 'we won't rest till we beat WOW and become number one'.
GW2 decline in population can not be compared to any P2P MMO though because of the payment model. Now if GW2 was P2P it would be a different story.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
At the rate WoW is losing subs it might not be long.
Anyway Colin Johanson, the game director, is very active in forums and press.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
WOW has been losing subs for years now.... 'long' is very vague. But it is a nice dream none the less.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
It is a speeding trend though.
And I doubt anyone is annoyed with Mike O'Brien for beating NCSoft expectations.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Honestly a better solution in this competitive market is going F2P. That is the only way I see it revive in terms of population. Especially with the quality MMOs coming out soon.
An interesting thing with raptr.
I just installed it, played like 1h30 of GW2 but no time was detected.
I guess it is because it isn't in the c:programsguild wars 2
With TSW the 7 minutes I used to test went in fine.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Which server, which zones?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Here you go.... *hands you a tinfoil hat*.....
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
You mean a 9 year old game's expansion is not selling like hot cakes anymore? wow..what a shocker.. *rolls eyes*
Last October MOP sales were 2.7 million.
Again, been there done that. heard this million times already. And it is not about being annoyed but mocking the silly statements like 'we are gonna beat WOW'. I guess neither players or devs learn anything from past.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
It's not an imaginary problem, the leveling system in MMOs is flawed, it leaves barren wastelands only a few months after launch unless the game is constantly bringing in players(F2P for example).
GW2 is just another one of those MMOs where once the initial burst of players wear of the game experience becomes terrible while leveling and you're stuck alone with NPCs and Bots.
Can you deny it?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders