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Should all MMORPGs be B2P?
varrius
Member Posts: 106
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs. They've really changed the playing field. I think it's time for a complete Buy-to-play market or Free-to-Play market. I am sure you would agree with me that the subscription model needs to die.
The subscription model is a thing of the past. Lets finish the job by boycotting games that charge subscription fees and playing B2P or F2P games. We the gamers need to have a voice and that voice needs to be strong.
Death to the Pay to Play market.
Comments
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Just play B2P games.
Except for EVE which I stopped playing recently (but not because of P2P) I'm playing only B2P games since I think P2P is overpriced for the content they're pushing out lately.
Plus it's a total ripoff when they charge a box price + sub + expansion box prices
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Set the bar for whom?
While i agree to an extent, the GW2 thing really didn't set a great example with their multitudinal problems in game/shop crossover. I'll support F2P options but the in game economy has to be more then 1 currency from the start, loot cannot be manipulated by the devs for personal profit, and there has to be better ways of getting in game crafting materials then RNG everything.
Just my take on it. It's like for example in GW2 none of the vendors in the game are farmers, or miners yet throughout the game we keep seeing these NPC's so why is it that these vendors in the crafting zones don't carry these materials? Like even the high level ones? Doesn't make any lore sense and causes their TP (AH) to have massive inflation in the process when it comes to pricing because all of the headstart/lucky winners of multiple precursor weapons are basically sitting around in LA manipulating the market and getting richer and the devs pretty much force any new player who doesn't know better to have to either wait for months to catch up to their buddies OR buy gems for gold.
Basically Anet was their own gold farmer business right there in the same title.
I'll support games that are F2P but this manipulation business is for the birds.
I'm not sure what bar GW2 set anything to. To me it was just another throwaway themepark, good for a month or less and frankly a pretty boring and depressing game all around.
It was wrapped in an impressive graphics engine, responsive game engine, and, of course, it was B2P. Bout it. If every game had the gameplay that GW2 "set", we're in trouble.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
No matter what the words that surround that statement are, the response is almost certainly going to be "No."
If I could find a subscription game that's worth playing and has no item shop, then I'd have no problem subscribing.
Problem is, I don't think there are any like that left.
Set the bar? Honestly?
I think its an average MMO, nothing really special about it.
Its my first B2P, and to be honest, i really don't care for it. I love vertical progression, but i really dislike the crazy RNG they use (mostly) for new gear. Farm mobs to hopefully get a crate to drop, that hopefully has a ticket drop.... bleh. I farmed the new content for more than a few hours looking for a new weapon skin, never even got a single crate to drop. I did some serious farming a few patches ago for essentially the thing, and had no luck there either,, so my tolerance this time was much lower.
I suppose i could buy lottery boxes off the gem store..
No thanks.
I haven't put any money into the gem store since the second month of release i believe. I don't even "pay" for the game any longer, and that still doesn't convince me to log in regularly. Its just a basic themepark MMO, with really no "hook". The WvW is pretty basic, and almost meaningless imo. The PvE is ok i suppose, and the Pvp is a shell of what they told it was going to be. Regardless of that, I much prefer P2P myself, and i don't really see myself getting into another B2P anytime soon. I won't be boycotting P2P, but thanks anyhow. I could see how others would like, but its not really for me, I suppose
Set the bar?
When I said, "Set the bar," I was not arguing the content, system, or game play. I was arguing the payment model being B2P. The setting of the bar was based around the fact of the sales of the game and the amount of people continually playing it.
I am saying they set the bar as far as payment model and that's all I am willing to argue.
I do like the game but that is not what this thread or argument is about.
What it is about is, Anet made it apparent, that we were being overcharged on subscription fees and it was perfectly acceptable and possible for a company to generate content(more than WoW in the first year), and keep servers running, without requiring us to purchase the game AND pay a monthly subscription fee.
Those with money can invest into the gem store, those without the money to spend, can still play with their friends. Therefore, memberbase is retained and we are all happy.
I argue that the subscription model is outdated, unnecessary, and shouldn't be ACCEPTED by ' we the gamers. '
Perhaps you can enlighten some of us on why you consider GW2 next gen, what bar did they set?
So being B2P makes GW2 next gen, seriously!
Read my post above which clarifies what I meant and you are twisting what I said quite a bit. They set the bar FOR other MMORPGs, by being Buy-to-Play is what I am stating.
EDIT: Putting this into an easier to understand perspective. If you are a hypothetical game developer and people are buying another (competitor) game in the millions, to avoid paying a subscription, you are then forced to yield to or at least consider adopting a similar payment structure to compete in the free-market.
Perhaps not starting your post with this sentence would help.
"Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs"
Why not start like this: "GW2's B2P model has really set the bar and changed the playing field where sub models are concerned"
They set the bar for payment models of next generation MMOs.
Based on their member retention and quality, I would argue they did in a game play area too, but my thread is centered around setting the bar in regards to payment models.
You are correct sir. I believe the anti-sub pro-b2p crowd latched onto this game and are proclaiming it the end all be all of mmorpgs. While it has some good points, claims like DEs being original are just too LOL.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
And that's your opinion, all the polls i've seen have P2P coming out on top.
So has it sold as well as wow? I purchased the game but stopped playing within a month. Am I still considered one of the many? How to they account for people who aren't playing anymore in their numbers? I'd bet they don't mention the boxes not being played.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
An average mmo compared to what? to call it average says to me that there are a good few above average mmorpgs, what are they?
Hate to be that guy but...
GW2 in fact didn't set the bar... WOW did... GW2 did not even scratch the surface of the money WoW Makes. B2P is a decent payment model for poor players. but most gamers don't mind shelling out money for a game if its good F2p / B2p / P2p doesn't matter if the game truly is good. imo The game didn't have a sub since it wasn't really worth a sub and most likely Anet knew this.
for example Titan (blizzard next mmo) will use probably a mix of payment methods but one thing that is for sure it will be including the RMAH that D3 used and we all know how much money blizzard made off that... the answer is A LOT.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
Just like blizzard does with diablo
It's a rediculous idea that the success of one B2P game should herald the death of subscription games. F2P or B2P they still have a cash shop to generate revenue and I've seen numbers thrown around in various articles and posts suggesting that anywhere between 5 and 10% of the population make use of these cash shops.
In order to keep a game running that 5 or 10% has to provide enough money for the company to keep the doors open. That's fine if you have 2-3 million players, that equates to 200-300k players giving you cash. What if you only have 300k players in total? Do you think 30k players will make the company enough cash to stay solvent? I doubt it. So for a game the size on EVE a sub is required.
I do think that the amount of subscription charged could be lowered to around $7-9 a month and still make a company enough to keep a game running. They'd probably have fewer people moaning about subs if they dropped the price. Not that $15 a month is a lot but apparently it's too much for some of the cheap b**tards that frequent this site.
Guild wars 2 hasn't released in asia thats why. if it does release in asia it will get wow numbers.