Except for EVE which I stopped playing recently (but not because of P2P) I'm playing only B2P games since I think P2P is overpriced for the content they're pushing out lately.
Plus it's a total ripoff when they charge a box price + sub + expansion box prices
Many people substitute buying several single player games which cost $60 each by sticking with a P2P game. $60 initial cost + $180 per year with an expansion every year and a half to two years is way less money than the average gamer spends on games that are lucky to give 20 hours of entertainment anymore.
In my opinion with all of the options out there and all of the game hopping that goes on new payment models were being explored before GW2. It's does seem like short term profit (the box) with some long term funding of the dedicated players ( CS ) works so yeah I expect to see this trend continue.
When I said, "Set the bar," I was not arguing the content, system, or game play.
Perhaps not starting your post with this sentence would help.
"Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs"
They set the bar for payment models of next generation MMOs.
Based on their member retention and quality, I would argue they did in a game play area too, but my thread is centered around setting the bar in regards to payment models.
And that's your opinion, all the polls i've seen have P2P coming out on top.
I don't know what "polls" you're referring to or if you'd care to link them, despite this, you have to think - how many P2P games really remain? I can think of WoW and EVE off the top of my head. Aside of that, what is there really? Also, if P2P is so much more lucrative why are so many companies (more than p2p games in number) abandoning p2p in favor of F2P: EQ2, Rift, Tera, EQ1, Vanguard. If those games did so much better as p2p and the polls were "correct", wouldn't they have remained p2p?
When I said, "Set the bar," I was not arguing the content, system, or game play. I was arguing the payment model being B2P. The setting of the bar was based around the fact of the sales of the game and the amount of people continually playing it.
I am saying they set the bar as far as payment model and that's all I am willing to argue.
I do like the game but that is not what this thread or argument is about.
What it is about is, Anet made it apparent, that we were being overcharged on subscription fees and it was perfectly acceptable and possible for a company to generate content(more than WoW in the first year), and keep servers running, without requiring us to purchase the game AND pay a monthly subscription fee.
Those with money can invest into the gem store, those without the money to spend, can still play with their friends. Therefore, memberbase is retained and we are all happy.
I argue that the subscription model is outdated, unnecessary, and shouldn't be ACCEPTED by ' we the gamers.
All righty then, I"ll play this game for free, occasionally, but I still have $15 a month here for the guy who can do better. Again, its an ok game, nothing special for me personally, and I feel no need to contribute currently.
I don't see how that's helping, "we the gamers" though. I'd rather give a really good/great game my money.
Originally posted by Muntz In my opinion with all of the options out there and all of the game hopping that goes on new payment models were being explored before GW2. It's does seem like short term profit (the box) with some long term funding of the dedicated players ( CS ) works so yeah I expect to see this trend continue.
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs. They've really changed the playing field. I think it's time for a complete Buy-to-play market or Free-to-Play market. I am sure you would agree with me that the subscription model needs to die.
The subscription model is a thing of the past. Lets finish the job by boycotting games that charge subscription fees and playing B2P or F2P games. We the gamers need to have a voice and that voice needs to be strong.
Death to the Pay to Play market.
I'm assuming this is a provocative troll, but in the case its not I'll just say that I don't think you can support a full MMORPG in terms of longevity with a B2P model.
Games that offer content with a very short life span tend to use the B2P model. And personally when I start a MMORPG, I always go in with the expectation of being able to spend multiple years progressing in the game. And that's the reason I don't like the B2P model.
if by set the bar you mean GW2 is the first buy to play.. the original Guild Wars was buy to play. So maybe the Guild Wars Franchise is setting the bar, but not just GW2.
I think its an average MMO, nothing really special about it.
Its my first B2P, and to be honest, i really don't care for it. I love vertical progression, but i really dislike the crazy RNG they use (mostly) for new gear. Farm mobs to hopefully get a crate to drop, that hopefully has a ticket drop.... bleh. I farmed the new content for more than a few hours looking for a new weapon skin, never even got a single crate to drop. I did some serious farming a few patches ago for essentially the thing, and had no luck there either,, so my tolerance this time was much lower.
I suppose i could buy lottery boxes off the gem store..
No thanks.
I haven't put any money into the gem store since the second month of release i believe. I don't even "pay" for the game any longer, and that still doesn't convince me to log in regularly. Its just a basic themepark MMO, with really no "hook". The WvW is pretty basic, and almost meaningless imo. The PvE is ok i suppose, and the Pvp is a shell of what they told it was going to be. Regardless of that, I much prefer P2P myself, and i don't really see myself getting into another B2P anytime soon. I won't be boycotting P2P, but thanks anyhow. I could see how others would like, but its not really for me, I suppose
Set the bar?
An average mmo compared to what? to call it average says to me that there are a good few above average mmorpgs, what are they?
Average in my history of playing MMOs I suppose. Theres more than a few I liked better, back when, but they've grown a bit dated.
Currently, I don't play any other, so I guess you could say I consider it the "best" out there, if you desire. Which is really a damning statement in of itself I suppose.
Again, its not awful, I just don't think its set any bars, business model or other, but that's just me...
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs. They've really changed the playing field. I think it's time for a complete Buy-to-play market or Free-to-Play market. I am sure you would agree with me that the subscription model needs to die.
The subscription model is a thing of the past. Lets finish the job by boycotting games that charge subscription fees and playing B2P or F2P games. We the gamers need to have a voice and that voice needs to be strong.
Death to the Pay to Play market.
I'm assuming this is a provocative troll, but in the case its not I'll just say that I don't think you can support a full MMORPG in terms of longevity with a B2P model.
Games that offer content with a very short life span tend to use the B2P model. And personally when I start a MMORPG, I always go in with the expectation of being able to spend multiple years progressing in the game. And that's the reason I don't like the B2P model.
How do you explain Guild Wars 1? How do you explain AION? Lineage 2? All full free to play. Guild Wars 2 just announced an expansion was in the works and NCSoft stated that income was going up due to GW2. The longevity is there, it has been proven, the track record shows it. In addition, GW2 has produced more content than WoW had in its first year.
Further, AION has a two-class expansion coming at the beginning of June, for free. Longevity - proven.
Also, this is not a troll like you claim, it is an honest discussion.
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs. They've really changed the playing field. I think it's time for a complete Buy-to-play market or Free-to-Play market. I am sure you would agree with me that the subscription model needs to die.
The subscription model is a thing of the past. Lets finish the job by boycotting games that charge subscription fees and playing B2P or F2P games. We the gamers need to have a voice and that voice needs to be strong.
Death to the Pay to Play market.
I'm assuming this is a provocative troll, but in the case its not I'll just say that I don't think you can support a full MMORPG in terms of longevity with a B2P model.
Games that offer content with a very short life span tend to use the B2P model. And personally when I start a MMORPG, I always go in with the expectation of being able to spend multiple years progressing in the game. And that's the reason I don't like the B2P model.
How do you explain Guild Wars 1? How do you explain AION? Lineage 2? All full free to play. Guild Wars 2 just announced an expansion was in the works and NCSoft stated that income was going up due to GW2. The longevity is there, it has been proven, the track record shows it. In addition, GW2 has produced more content than WoW had in its first year.
Further, AION has a two-class expansion coming at the beginning of June, for free. Longevity - proven.
Also, this is not a troll like you claim, it is an honest discussion.
I will have to disagree with you. WoW had way more content in its first year then Gw2 has yet. It took the avg player 4-6 months before they got even to max lvl. avg players of Gw2 took about 2- 4 weeks to hit maxed lvl. Ok world completion took maybe 500 game play hours to do if you set your self at a good pace. most people put 1000 hours of game play into the game and still hadn't seen the whole world.
Sorry budy, but if you didn't play vanilla my condolences to you. But WoW in fact had much more content as far as game time is measured.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs. They've really changed the playing field. I think it's time for a complete Buy-to-play market or Free-to-Play market. I am sure you would agree with me that the subscription model needs to die.
The subscription model is a thing of the past. Lets finish the job by boycotting games that charge subscription fees and playing B2P or F2P games. We the gamers need to have a voice and that voice needs to be strong.
Death to the Pay to Play market.
I'm assuming this is a provocative troll, but in the case its not I'll just say that I don't think you can support a full MMORPG in terms of longevity with a B2P model.
Games that offer content with a very short life span tend to use the B2P model. And personally when I start a MMORPG, I always go in with the expectation of being able to spend multiple years progressing in the game. And that's the reason I don't like the B2P model.
How do you explain Guild Wars 1? How do you explain AION? Lineage 2? All full free to play. Guild Wars 2 just announced an expansion was in the works and NCSoft stated that income was going up due to GW2. The longevity is there, it has been proven, the track record shows it. In addition, GW2 has produced more content than WoW had in its first year.
Further, AION has a two-class expansion coming at the beginning of June, for free. Longevity - proven.
Also, this is not a troll like you claim, it is an honest discussion.
I will have to disagree with you. WoW had way more content in its first year then Gw2 has yet. It took the avg player 4-6 months before they got even to max lvl. avg players of Gw2 took about 2- 4 weeks to hit maxed lvl. Ok world completion took maybe 500 game play hours to do if you set your self at a good pace. most people put 1000 hours of game play into the game and still hadn't seen the whole world.
Sorry budy, but if you didn't play vanilla my condolences to you. But WoW in fact had much more content as far as game time is measured.
Here you go, "Buddy".
WoW Added:
Feast of Great-Winter (1.5 months)
Mauradon dungeon (1.5 months)
Gurubashi Arena Event (1.5 months)
Dire Maul (4 months)
2 world bosses: Azuregos and Doom Lord Kazzak (4 months)
The first 2 battlegrounds: Alterac Valley and Warsong Gulch (7 months)
Blackwing Lair (8 months)
GW2 Added:
Halloween Event (2 month)
Lost Shores Karka event (3 months)
Temple of the Silent Storm pvp map (3 months)
Fractals of the Mists (3 months)
Wintersday (4 months)
Flame and Frost Living Story (5-8 months)
Spirit Watch pvp map (6 months)
Guild Missions (6 months)
Super Adventure Box (7 months)
Numerous new events, jumping puzzles, and mini dungeons that are either not mentioned in patch notes or barely hinted at in passing in patch notes, such as the Forsaken Fortune mini dungeon.
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs. They've really changed the playing field. I think it's time for a complete Buy-to-play market or Free-to-Play market. I am sure you would agree with me that the subscription model needs to die.
The subscription model is a thing of the past. Lets finish the job by boycotting games that charge subscription fees and playing B2P or F2P games. We the gamers need to have a voice and that voice needs to be strong.
Death to the Pay to Play market.
I'm assuming this is a provocative troll, but in the case its not I'll just say that I don't think you can support a full MMORPG in terms of longevity with a B2P model.
Games that offer content with a very short life span tend to use the B2P model. And personally when I start a MMORPG, I always go in with the expectation of being able to spend multiple years progressing in the game. And that's the reason I don't like the B2P model.
How do you explain Guild Wars 1? How do you explain AION? Lineage 2? All full free to play. Guild Wars 2 just announced an expansion was in the works and NCSoft stated that income was going up due to GW2. The longevity is there, it has been proven, the track record shows it. In addition, GW2 has produced more content than WoW had in its first year.
Further, AION has a two-class expansion coming at the beginning of June, for free. Longevity - proven.
Also, this is not a troll like you claim, it is an honest discussion.
I'm not sure the content is comparable. WoW, in its first year, was after all part of a rather new genre with a team without much experience inside the genre, and the technology devs have for creating content probs wasn't as vast, but ignoring that, things like balancing 40 man content did for sure take a lot of effort.
GW2 feels like a single player game to me, it doesn't have the massive raids or any of the stuff like that, most of it is designed with the solo player in mind instead of a big, complex group of people, and maybe that has something to do with it all. With solo and small group content and, not much balancing is needed.
Maybe its just my biased opinion, you see, I don't like GW2. But from this perspective, I still doubt a B2P model could maintain a long-lasting themepark raiding game.
On another note, sure, GW2 still has a lot of players, and so did GW1, but GW1 slowly did lose most of its playerbase, and as far as I know, GW2 also lost a great portion of its pop after launch because of the lack of content. Of course people rush through content faster nowadays, but still I feel B2P games are made to make a quick buck from the masses at release and then keep a low profile, to milk the people who did stay with a few expansions.
One of the reasons i didn't buy GW 2 is because it was B2p .
I would pay $30 per month for a good game but i wouldn't pay $70 for a game as poor as GW2 is.
I would love if EQNext and repop were gonna be sub based but i guess they not gonna be but at least with EQNext we will be able to sub even if it is limited game due to F2P options.
I say bring back sub based games so the developers will produce a good deep game with proper up keep and not just bring out junk that is there to keep you spending real money in the shop to make the game any way interesting.
No, they shouldn't. I like buy to play best, but that doesn't mean that any one of the other models can't work if done competitively and respectfully.
Still, buying the retail copy and not having a subscription doesn't specifically qualify as buy to play when you deploy a p2w rmah or a MT shop, its deploying the same sales as f2p with the addition of retail, just like subs are so unreasonable because they wanna collect retail and expansion retail and than sell you MT at some point.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Most F2P games putting out quality product (this includes updates) have a sub model as well as F2P options. My enjoyment of an MMO is worth far more than Box/15/Expac when I consider how much my free time is worth.
One thing to consider with complete F2P/B2P games is that in order to keep the bills paid for a quality game some shinanagans may be present. If taken to where you want to go you are essentially allowing the companies to write thier own check, the exact opposite of the typical "free MMOs for the people!" sentiment that pops up. When you replace a static payment system with a modular one bad things can happen. What lengths do you think any company will go to keep afloat?
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs. They've really changed the playing field. I think it's time for a complete Buy-to-play market or Free-to-Play market. I am sure you would agree with me that the subscription model needs to die.
The subscription model is a thing of the past. Lets finish the job by boycotting games that charge subscription fees and playing B2P or F2P games. We the gamers need to have a voice and that voice needs to be strong.
Death to the Pay to Play market.
Yes I'm afraid that soulless and cheap productions is starting to become a norm..
And we are now paying for things that should come included in a game BY GAMEPLAY not via a store ..
If they offer a subscription which gives you TOTAL access to a game , like DDO or many others then I think it's ok. But a game developed from scratch as a FTP or BTP title has a huge chance of beiing poor, BTP is naturally better since they get payment for the box at least
Most FTP or BTP games that exist today part from GW2 is games that has been developed as subscription based games from the get go, these games has higher production values than a pure FTP title will ever have..A good example of cheap production value is Neverwinter , did they even hire proper and talented folks for the lore and stories ? My guess is that they came up with the brilliant idea to let the players create their content instead
If a company can get people to pay for mediocre then we WILL get mediocre games, just look at all the games on facebook .
IMHO I think GW2 is a cheap game , the combat is bland and the voice overs poor the storys felt super cliche and childish at best..
GW2 in fact didn't set the bar... WOW did... GW2 did not even scratch the surface of the money WoW Makes. B2P is a decent payment model for poor players. but most gamers don't mind shelling out money for a game if its good F2p / B2p / P2p doesn't matter if the game truly is good. imo The game didn't have a sub since it wasn't really worth a sub and most likely Anet knew this.
for example Titan (blizzard next mmo) will use probably a mix of payment methods but one thing that is for sure it will be including the RMAH that D3 used and we all know how much money blizzard made off that... the answer is A LOT.
Guild wars 2 hasn't released in asia thats why. if it does release in asia it will get wow numbers.
People who think payment model dictates the quality of the game are just flat out wrong. There are good and bad examples of them in every payment type.
I prefer free to start and sub if you think the game is worth it but with the ability to still play for free if you're willing to put in the extra work to earn everything.
Guild Wars 2 really set the bar for the next generation of MMORPGs.
Not really. They copied the F2P + Founder's Pack model and just called it something different to avoid the stigma of F2P. The only thing that was different was the sales pitch - a brilliant sales pitch at that.
EDIT: Actually, they didn't even need to call it something different. They just positioned against subscription and let the consumers do the rest from there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
People who think payment model dictates the quality of the game are just flat out wrong. There are good and bad examples of them in every payment type.
I prefer free to start and sub if you think the game is worth it but with the ability to still play for free if you're willing to put in the extra work to earn everything.
+1.
Makes the most sense, SOE realized it, SW:TOR realized it, Anet realized it, NCsoft realized it with Aion and L2... The list goes on.
You get to stay and play with your friends if you can't afford to keep paying a monthly subscription.
I'm actually astounded that some of you 'enjoy' paying for a game monthly...
If "we the gamers" speak out, we'll get subscription quality games, without a fee.
People who think payment model dictates the quality of the game are just flat out wrong. There are good and bad examples of them in every payment type.
I prefer free to start and sub if you think the game is worth it but with the ability to still play for free if you're willing to put in the extra work to earn everything.
To talk about the bolded part, this would precisely be what I don't want to see in a game personally, and what I would call pay-to-win.
I'm okay with paying for content. I'm okay with free players not being able to, say, get past a certain level. What I'm not okay with, personally, is selling stuff like XP boosters or faster progression in other ways to make the paying players progress faster than the F2P players while they are on the same playing field.
If I was to play a game that had F2P elements to it, it would be something like a level restricted, unlimited trial, or something like RuneScape's F2P/P2P system where the P2P players indeed only pay for more content.
People who think payment model dictates the quality of the game are just flat out wrong. There are good and bad examples of them in every payment type.
I prefer free to start and sub if you think the game is worth it but with the ability to still play for free if you're willing to put in the extra work to earn everything.
To talk about the bolded part, this would precisely be what I don't want to see in a game personally, and what I would call pay-to-win.
I'm okay with paying for content. I'm okay with free players not being able to, say, get past a certain level. What I'm not okay with, personally, is selling stuff like XP boosters or faster progression in other ways to make the paying players progress faster than the F2P players while they are on the same playing field.
If I was to play a game that had F2P elements to it, it would be something like a level restricted, unlimited trial, or something like RuneScape's F2P/P2P system where the P2P players indeed only pay for more content.
Many F2P Games offer this with a "gold membership, or elite membership", such as: TERA, EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard: SoH, Rift is going to have it, many others use it.
I like AIONs model, which has no "gold plan", same with GW2.
What happens when hardly anybody buys the game you bought?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
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Comments
Many people substitute buying several single player games which cost $60 each by sticking with a P2P game. $60 initial cost + $180 per year with an expansion every year and a half to two years is way less money than the average gamer spends on games that are lucky to give 20 hours of entertainment anymore.
I don't know what "polls" you're referring to or if you'd care to link them, despite this, you have to think - how many P2P games really remain? I can think of WoW and EVE off the top of my head. Aside of that, what is there really? Also, if P2P is so much more lucrative why are so many companies (more than p2p games in number) abandoning p2p in favor of F2P: EQ2, Rift, Tera, EQ1, Vanguard. If those games did so much better as p2p and the polls were "correct", wouldn't they have remained p2p?
All righty then, I"ll play this game for free, occasionally, but I still have $15 a month here for the guy who can do better. Again, its an ok game, nothing special for me personally, and I feel no need to contribute currently.
I don't see how that's helping, "we the gamers" though. I'd rather give a really good/great game my money.
Heres hoping...
+1
I'm assuming this is a provocative troll, but in the case its not I'll just say that I don't think you can support a full MMORPG in terms of longevity with a B2P model.
Games that offer content with a very short life span tend to use the B2P model. And personally when I start a MMORPG, I always go in with the expectation of being able to spend multiple years progressing in the game. And that's the reason I don't like the B2P model.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
Currently bored with MMO's.
Average in my history of playing MMOs I suppose. Theres more than a few I liked better, back when, but they've grown a bit dated.
Currently, I don't play any other, so I guess you could say I consider it the "best" out there, if you desire. Which is really a damning statement in of itself I suppose.
Again, its not awful, I just don't think its set any bars, business model or other, but that's just me...
How do you explain Guild Wars 1? How do you explain AION? Lineage 2? All full free to play. Guild Wars 2 just announced an expansion was in the works and NCSoft stated that income was going up due to GW2. The longevity is there, it has been proven, the track record shows it. In addition, GW2 has produced more content than WoW had in its first year.
Further, AION has a two-class expansion coming at the beginning of June, for free. Longevity - proven.
Also, this is not a troll like you claim, it is an honest discussion.
I will have to disagree with you. WoW had way more content in its first year then Gw2 has yet. It took the avg player 4-6 months before they got even to max lvl. avg players of Gw2 took about 2- 4 weeks to hit maxed lvl. Ok world completion took maybe 500 game play hours to do if you set your self at a good pace. most people put 1000 hours of game play into the game and still hadn't seen the whole world.
Sorry budy, but if you didn't play vanilla my condolences to you. But WoW in fact had much more content as far as game time is measured.
Screw leveling games, give me something with "End game" at the beginning of the game.
Here you go, "Buddy".
WoW Added:
GW2 Added:
i'm still of the opinion that when a game is good enough people will pay for a subscription.
And making games beatable in a month or 2 issnt helping that along. focus needs to be longlivity again. wich means socializing.
I'm not sure the content is comparable. WoW, in its first year, was after all part of a rather new genre with a team without much experience inside the genre, and the technology devs have for creating content probs wasn't as vast, but ignoring that, things like balancing 40 man content did for sure take a lot of effort.
GW2 feels like a single player game to me, it doesn't have the massive raids or any of the stuff like that, most of it is designed with the solo player in mind instead of a big, complex group of people, and maybe that has something to do with it all. With solo and small group content and, not much balancing is needed.
Maybe its just my biased opinion, you see, I don't like GW2. But from this perspective, I still doubt a B2P model could maintain a long-lasting themepark raiding game.
On another note, sure, GW2 still has a lot of players, and so did GW1, but GW1 slowly did lose most of its playerbase, and as far as I know, GW2 also lost a great portion of its pop after launch because of the lack of content. Of course people rush through content faster nowadays, but still I feel B2P games are made to make a quick buck from the masses at release and then keep a low profile, to milk the people who did stay with a few expansions.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
One of the reasons i didn't buy GW 2 is because it was B2p .
I would pay $30 per month for a good game but i wouldn't pay $70 for a game as poor as GW2 is.
I would love if EQNext and repop were gonna be sub based but i guess they not gonna be but at least with EQNext we will be able to sub even if it is limited game due to F2P options.
I say bring back sub based games so the developers will produce a good deep game with proper up keep and not just bring out junk that is there to keep you spending real money in the shop to make the game any way interesting.
Still, buying the retail copy and not having a subscription doesn't specifically qualify as buy to play when you deploy a p2w rmah or a MT shop, its deploying the same sales as f2p with the addition of retail, just like subs are so unreasonable because they wanna collect retail and expansion retail and than sell you MT at some point.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Most F2P games putting out quality product (this includes updates) have a sub model as well as F2P options. My enjoyment of an MMO is worth far more than Box/15/Expac when I consider how much my free time is worth.
One thing to consider with complete F2P/B2P games is that in order to keep the bills paid for a quality game some shinanagans may be present. If taken to where you want to go you are essentially allowing the companies to write thier own check, the exact opposite of the typical "free MMOs for the people!" sentiment that pops up. When you replace a static payment system with a modular one bad things can happen. What lengths do you think any company will go to keep afloat?
Yes I'm afraid that soulless and cheap productions is starting to become a norm..
And we are now paying for things that should come included in a game BY GAMEPLAY not via a store ..
If they offer a subscription which gives you TOTAL access to a game , like DDO or many others then I think it's ok. But a game developed from scratch as a FTP or BTP title has a huge chance of beiing poor, BTP is naturally better since they get payment for the box at least
Most FTP or BTP games that exist today part from GW2 is games that has been developed as subscription based games from the get go, these games has higher production values than a pure FTP title will ever have..A good example of cheap production value is Neverwinter , did they even hire proper and talented folks for the lore and stories ? My guess is that they came up with the brilliant idea to let the players create their content instead
If a company can get people to pay for mediocre then we WILL get mediocre games, just look at all the games on facebook .
IMHO I think GW2 is a cheap game , the combat is bland and the voice overs poor the storys felt super cliche and childish at best..
So..A HUGE NO to your idea..
Rofl.
People who think payment model dictates the quality of the game are just flat out wrong. There are good and bad examples of them in every payment type.
I prefer free to start and sub if you think the game is worth it but with the ability to still play for free if you're willing to put in the extra work to earn everything.
Not really. They copied the F2P + Founder's Pack model and just called it something different to avoid the stigma of F2P. The only thing that was different was the sales pitch - a brilliant sales pitch at that.
EDIT: Actually, they didn't even need to call it something different. They just positioned against subscription and let the consumers do the rest from there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
+1.
Makes the most sense, SOE realized it, SW:TOR realized it, Anet realized it, NCsoft realized it with Aion and L2... The list goes on.
You get to stay and play with your friends if you can't afford to keep paying a monthly subscription.
I'm actually astounded that some of you 'enjoy' paying for a game monthly...
If "we the gamers" speak out, we'll get subscription quality games, without a fee.
To talk about the bolded part, this would precisely be what I don't want to see in a game personally, and what I would call pay-to-win.
I'm okay with paying for content. I'm okay with free players not being able to, say, get past a certain level. What I'm not okay with, personally, is selling stuff like XP boosters or faster progression in other ways to make the paying players progress faster than the F2P players while they are on the same playing field.
If I was to play a game that had F2P elements to it, it would be something like a level restricted, unlimited trial, or something like RuneScape's F2P/P2P system where the P2P players indeed only pay for more content.
The Weekly Wizardry blog
Many F2P Games offer this with a "gold membership, or elite membership", such as: TERA, EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard: SoH, Rift is going to have it, many others use it.
I like AIONs model, which has no "gold plan", same with GW2.
What happens when hardly anybody buys the game you bought?
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"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE