F2P are for casuals, if you want to have ALL of a f2p game you have to spend a fortune. If you want to have all on P2P game, you only need time.
Is a fact.
If it was still 2008 or something you might be right, however, you're factually wrong here too. The problem is you're lumping ALL F2P titles together. You're correct some F2P titles operate how you suggest, but at this point in time it's no longer true that ALL or probably even that the majority do so.
So you payed 1600 bucks on a single game for 10 years of enterteinement... so bad true? i know people who wasted these money in a single year buying games and consoles. I can laught from the other one, you simple wasted 160 bucks per year.
showing high numbers dont impress me. Is not the same to say: I wasted 5200 bucks in alcohol my last 10 years.. than i go out once every 2 weeks and waste 20 bucks. (10 per week, 52 weeks per year, 10 years)
OMG i need help.. i am alcoholic.. 5200!!! .. oh wait, i go out once per 2 weeks.. is not so bad.
Just to make certain people know where I stand with FFXIV in general: I support it fully and will be playing it mainly because of their attitude and hard work (and my experience that they extend their story with each patch along with cutscenes and the like and I feel it's worth it). I guess the topic of payment plans is relevant to this thread since one of the announcements are the payment plans and the box prices. Also, FFXIV is likely to remain P2P as they don't have to pay back publishers or investors (in the same way) since it's self funded (no doubt a relief to many Pro-P2P people). But I reiterate that I support Square Enix and am merely responding to a comment.
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Except this lacks any sort of business (or consumer) sense whatsoever. It ignores the trends, and just trivializes the matter that is a serious thing for a lot of people (much like big companies do when something is wrong with their product and would want us to do to defend them). It is not just that people pay thousands of dollars for a single game they can no longer access. It's not just that you get ripped off since bandwidth is incredibly cheap now, and the work the staff does doesn't equate to what the $90 could buy you (in this case the example was five games). It's also not just that you're renting the game (with people calling us fools behind our backs) that you will no longer have access to afters spending thousands of dollars on.
It's also about the before-mentioned trends, and the fact that there are starting to be better options out there. That games that were once P2P are going F2P at an alarming rate. That people are waking up to the truth of the matter (as a matter of speaking and not to imply people are blind to something). Sure, if one values something, then that value is justified to them. But to those with a frugal, or even a business mindset, this isn't cutting it. Thus, the implementation of a P2P system has (as history has shown) usually led to the "dreaded" F2P situation (with the exception of TSW).
I can't help but to think some of your assertions are brought about recent bad experiences such as (potentially) neverwinter and their F2P services. While I don't like F2P myself (and thus would advocate B2P or a new payment altogether as pure F2P has some disadvantages and history has shown P2P to eventually go F2P) the prospect of B2P has, as of yet, been fairly sturdy with their "barrier for entry". There's little historical evidence to state that you will one day be disappointed since it will go F2P one day.
Some people just vote for P2P without thinking, or the ramifications it could have in the future. The fear people will have in saying "will this go F2P soon? I hope not" or vise versa for the F2P crowd. Square Enix is in a good position to do this simply because they completely funded their game. They don't have a publisher or investors to pay back in the same way other MMOs will have (and thus go F2P to appease concerns or to make more money).
In a video about crafting, Wildstar's Jeremy Graffney ( ) He essentially confirms something many of us have been concerned was a thing for a long time. That there is in fact a "plan" to go P2P, milk die hard P2P players, and then go F2P to milk that crowd for maximum profit. Not great for the player, but great for the game and the investors as they like money. This does not indicate that it's something they are going to do (as he was explaining how multiple payment models worked and not confirming what they want in it), but it is a confirmation of things I personally (across multiple mediums) have been saying exists for the past two years.
Now you could also say that "if it's worth $15 a month I will play it". Except that how many games have been worth it? What constitutes worth? Those who are still on board with P2P are a group of people of different tastes. There is not "great" or "perfect" game that will be worth it to bring every single willing patron to play that game indefinitely. The barrier will falter and go F2P eventually, where as a game such as the first guild wars still has that B2P barrier almost a decade later. A fraction of a fraction will be in the ball park of saying "this is the greatest thing since the last greatest thing", and that first fraction is getting smaller by the day and as there are new and quality games (such as rift) coming out with a more enticing price point for people. Therefore, a new payment model, perhaps even a hybrid, will in fact help the P2P crowd in the long run if this data is to be relied upon (all the while making people feel like they're not just paying for a community as the game itself doesn't provide enough content on a monthly basis).
This is an indication that we need a new payment model that both gives money and provides options -- or the illusion of options -- to the player. Simply saying "P2P" is best without thinking it through is the quickest way to fall into the trap above. We need to think and say what we want intelligently or else, as they say, "we'll get exactly what we asked for".
Then one could say, "well what about actual updates?" Some F2P games (usually the ones that fail or have planned to go F2P all along after going P2P and getting money to recoup costs there) go into maintenance mode and stop bringing content updates. But could you imagine a model that helps push this forward? Guild Wars 2, for instances, has released a content patch every month and is a B2P game the same as Guild Wars was. Negativity to negativity of the current P2P model will scare such a model from ever being created. Being stubborn will as well (as we gamers are known for, including yours truly).
Let's also now look at the future and not just be selfish in what we want. MMOs have essentially reached their peak when it comes to the computer. What did the consoles announce? They will support F2P like games? Not only that, but they have the power to have fully online world and games (heck, current generations have similar abilities; we are also improving internet capacities around the world and the Xboxone will require a online certification every 24 hours). If we want fresh blood, a new payment model will be needed to entice them (the console players). These people who are used to buying a game and playing it (along with being trained in buying DLC and micro transactions and accepting such). Though FFXIV in general is a nice introduction to payment models that some may naturally adopt, especially if they were already used to it on the previous FFXI.
We especially need to cling to new payment models to "save" the P2P model while also making it so some feel like they're not predatory animals, or people getting "tricked" into "logic" such as skipping lunch, or thinking that money = maturity and that P2P barriers are best for the community. Asserting that we're getting ripped off, or that things need to change is not indicative of saying "down with P2P forever", but rather is a first step in it's salvation. Being a "white knight" for something eventually dooms it if there is a problem. And yes, there is a problem, as seen by the falling of P2P and the many reasons people have (though the problems could be vast and many and not just what is obvious).
Long story short, you cannot trivialized the problems of something if you want to fix it. If you value a game so much that $4,000 is a perfectly fine price point for a single game that you can't play unless you pay even more cash, then that's your prerogative. But you would be in the minority, and while we need to fight for consumer rights and what we fight fun, we also have to consider what would be best for the companies and how they will acquire more money. If we are to do that, while also save remnants of "P2P", we need to accept the problems that others bring up (the majority that pays for these things and not our personal opinion), then we need to be open to compromise and realise, again, that there is in fact a problem.
On a more personal note, if a game such as WoW offered their expansions for Free, then I would value the $90 every six months that is spent. But as a whole now, you're only paying for "the community" and not any content (or content that could be beat in a few hours) that they put out, as their main focus is the next expansion. But they make mint, the community is crap and there is no reason to stop making money when people are willing to give it. I also wouldn't mind paying for set hours that aren't used until I log in. But as a whole I would only play maybe 8 hours a month of a game I pay $15 a month (mainly due to lack of content after a while and then a busy life researching this genre for undisclosed parties). Many others are in the boat as well.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
The story of ARR is five years after this, so don't worry about spoiling yourself come ARR.
He's what we call in the moogle world, "one bad ass mutha kupo."
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I honestly don't care if the game is p2p, or f2p. Its about content to me. If i like the game i will play it and i feel like they improved on what needed to be improved on going into ARR and will finally be the mmo to hold my attention. I loved FFXI (my favorite MMO) and i think FFXIV will finally be able to surpass it.
Originally posted by nomss So I can't play right now even though I had bought the original CE? Will I have to buy again?
You will get the game for free, in addition to all of the items ARR Collector's edition purchasers will get.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
The market is what the market is. Its not a question of what's right or wrong, better or worse.
Right now the market(western) is heavy into the ftp(btp). Hate it or love it. It is what it is.
Going ptp means having a smaller playerbase. It means making less money. It means watching that base slowly decline, since the people most interested in the game and willing to sub will be playing the game at or near release.
If the devs weren't willing to keep 1.0 up with its small and shrinking playerbase, what makes anyone think they will do it for reborn?
the reason im waiting for this is due to the fact that i have been wanting to play a MMO on my PS3, i cant say i am the biggest FF fans, but i do love their IP, i played FF7, 8, 9 and 10
i never played 11, but i saw my cousin play all the time during the time which i was playing WoW,
so i cant wait to finally get an adventure in the world of Eorzea
Originally posted by Epic1oots This is all great news, but can someone confirm how how the early access works? How early do we get to start?? August 27th is so far away.... hehe,
Hmm... Well, I'd imagine Open Beta will take place in July, with two to three weeks break from the end of beta to the official launch. If that's the case, we may be able to play it early as soon as August 13th to August 20th. Though more than likely those who pre-order or who are Legacy members will get access to the game a week or two after the Open beta closes.
All just speculation, of course. It's important to get people who were playing back when it closed in it as soon as possible, as it sucks for someone to lose their MMORPG "home" and the friends associated alongside it.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Oh man i soo cant wait for this game gonna be the next great mmo. people may say otherwise but completely forget the original this is a whole new game and i hope everyone is as excited for it as much a i am
They are moving into standard MMORPG subscription. No F2P or B2p.
Anyway, as i said on a post before, Phase 4 in July, will be Open Beta saving your progress (no character wipe). So all thse people who dont want to pay a monthly fee before to know if is a good game or not, can test it for weeks and your progress will no lost if you decide to continue with the game after release.
I understad these people who dont like P2P model, but the game will be free to try it. If you dont like the game, just move to another game. If you like it, think about paying 12 bucks per month to have access to every thing in the game, not to pay 6 bucks for storage, 6 bucks for a mount, 12 bucks for dungeon packs, 10 bucks for inventory slots, etc... In the end, F2P will be always more expensive than P2P and thats the reason companies move on F2P model, to earn more money.
They are moving into standard MMORPG subscription. No F2P or B2p.
Anyway, as i said on a post before, Phase 4 in July, will be Open Beta saving your progress (no character wipe). So all thse people who dont want to pay a monthly fee before to know if is a good game or not, can test it for weeks and your progress will no lost if you decide to continue with the game after release.
I get a free month and don't have to pay for the new game, so I'm going to give it a shot, but I'm not really expecting some great new MMORPG; I'm expecting a modern themepark, and unfortunately, that's not a type of game that I can enjoy for more than a few weeks at a time. I hope they eventually offer a F2P option.
Ralstlin is right on that one. Ive played a dozen of Free to play games and to fully unlock all things you want you spend more money then you prolly will with a Subscription.
Iam not saying A Subcription is the best as many mmo's doesnt even deserve it these days. These mmo aint worth it, thats why they never seem to hold it out before ditching their sub for a free to play version.
GW2 did it very solid with Buy to Play Eve Online did it perfectly
I will wait for the Open Beta of FF XIV and play it myself before saying its worth the sub. You can bet if Open beta isnt a succes SE might need to adjust their payment model unless they dont care about empty servers.
Its a very harsh time for mmo studio's, we have seen many tripple A studio's go flat on their face real quick.
I realy hope SE makes the mmo where its captures the magic alot of us grew up with. That its worth to play for a long time to come. But after buying a dozen mmo's that went straight into the trashbin after 2 months iam very sceptical as should you. If people keep supporting mmo's that dont deliver this circle will never ends.
And SE cannot afford to make such disasters like their last FF's they made or they might be one of the last dinosaurs in gaming land.
They are moving into standard MMORPG subscription. No F2P or B2p.
Anyway, as i said on a post before, Phase 4 in July, will be Open Beta saving your progress (no character wipe). So all thse people who dont want to pay a monthly fee before to know if is a good game or not, can test it for weeks and your progress will no lost if you decide to continue with the game after release.
How do you know this?
Because i follow every single interview, official announce etc. Phase 3 Beta will be in June, confirmed, Release will be at the end of August (confirmed), Legacy players and people who pre-purchase it will have early access (mid august then) so Phase 4 is between Phase 3 (June) and early access (mid august).. so.. Phase 4 will be in July and is Open Beta with NDA lifted totally.
The market is what the market is. Its not a question of what's right or wrong, better or worse.Right now the market(western) is heavy into the ftp(btp). Hate it or love it. It is what it is.Going ptp means having a smaller playerbase. It means making less money. It means watching that base slowly decline, since the people most interested in the game and willing to sub will be playing the game at or near release.If the devs weren't willing to keep 1.0 up with its small and shrinking playerbase, what makes anyone think they will do it for reborn?
I'm fairly anti P2P lately, though I plan on playing and support Square (especially since I get a huge discount on the monthly fee) with this game due to the lengths they went to completely remake it (and apologize profusely for past mistakes).
But as a whole, the main reason I no longer play P2P games is because of World of Warcraft (and others). To date I've spent almost four thousand dollars on that game (1600 in monthly fees for one account pf which I have multiple accounts), plus the box prices for all those collectors editions and server transfers etc. Four thousand for one game that I was essentially only renting and can no longer play as my characters are essentially being held for ransom every month.
I feel utterly ashamed when I say I spent four grand on a single game, and then get the usual response from my friends (who weren't MMO players) "That must be the best damn game in the world to pay that much more". The sad thing is, I can't play a game I pay that much for as I don't really "own" and despite all that money can't access it regardless if I bought all the boxes or not.
Thusly I have my accounts printed out and printed on the wall so I don't get tempted to fall into the WoW trap again. Whenever I talk finances I always lose with my girlfriend as she just points to the wall and say how stupid I was for paying thousands of dollars for a game I can't even play. /sadface
I was tricked into rhetoric such as "skip having coffee three times a month and it will pay itself" or some such, without looking at it in terms of equity and a business outlook. In the past when I played Ultima Online it was seen as more of an investment by my MMO friends. Many of them sold their accounts for tens of thousands of dollars due to ample real estate and riches/strengths their characters had. Nowadays companies bar you from doing this, and there's literally no value to your account. This is only relevant as to why I played it in the past and gladly paid thousands for a game I wouldn't have access to (in addition to bandwidth being more expensive). Nowadays I just plain feel ripped off with how cheap bandwidth is, and how we only typically got one patch every six months.
Was that patch ($90) ever equivalent to the five full games I could've got from Steam? Not even close, not even enough content that a single game would've had. Just a raid that only the 1% could play (even with LFR now it's still a rip).
With Final Fantasy I've experienced a progressing story with patches -- a real story with cutscenes and everything -- in the first version when they were improving the game. If they can manage this then I can manage the discounted price I will pay and feel it's at least somewhat worth it (not to mention they said there will likely be new classes with some patches as well).
The above demonstrates my point perfectly. $4000 paid by the user of the game and now what is left to show for it? They can't even access the game they paid $4000 for unless of course they pony up some more money.
Paying a sub for a MMO is like going out to eat. You pay to enjoy your time and once done you leave with the memories of having had a good time.
And if you look back at the money you spent in the past and don't feel like it was worth it why did it take you so long to realize it? The problem is the person behind the keyboard, not the video game.
Thats the point TalulaRose i want to make another calculation:
mi friends uses a cigarettes package every two days, with a cost (mean cross europe) of 5€ per package.
so they wasting 900€ every year, 9000€ every 10 years! omg
they care? nope, coz is something they like. give any benefit for them? just the opposite.. is harmful.
the point is not that i wasted 1800€ in 10 years in a game.. is that i only wasted 1800€ in 10 years on my hobby. Some people have to waste more than 1000 just to start with their hobby (Windsurfing, Scuba gear for diving, tunning, Aeromodelling, etc..)
my point is that an MMO is not "a game" is a hobby.
The market is what the market is. Its not a question of what's right or wrong, better or worse.
Right now the market(western) is heavy into the ftp(btp). Hate it or love it. It is what it is.
Going ptp means having a smaller playerbase. It means making less money. It means watching that base slowly decline, since the people most interested in the game and willing to sub will be playing the game at or near release.
If the devs weren't willing to keep 1.0 up with its small and shrinking playerbase, what makes anyone think they will do it for reborn?
Again, the market is ftp because most games are built with third-party investor's cash and f2p is the best way to make the quickie buck to repay them. Square-Enix is not a third-party financed production, so they can look to the long game. And again, the problem with 1.0 was not the subscription.
This game will last over 10 years just like FFXI. I am glad that this game is subscription based so not everyone can play (lol like kids). Play your f2p/b2p games while I enjoy my FF14, u won't be missed. Why r u people reading this page??? FF11 was subscription based and it's still subscription based in 2013. No mater how much you wish, FF14 will never be f2p/b2p. So go away kids...
Comments
If it was still 2008 or something you might be right, however, you're factually wrong here too. The problem is you're lumping ALL F2P titles together. You're correct some F2P titles operate how you suggest, but at this point in time it's no longer true that ALL or probably even that the majority do so.
Steam: Neph
Just to make certain people know where I stand with FFXIV in general: I support it fully and will be playing it mainly because of their attitude and hard work (and my experience that they extend their story with each patch along with cutscenes and the like and I feel it's worth it). I guess the topic of payment plans is relevant to this thread since one of the announcements are the payment plans and the box prices. Also, FFXIV is likely to remain P2P as they don't have to pay back publishers or investors (in the same way) since it's self funded (no doubt a relief to many Pro-P2P people). But I reiterate that I support Square Enix and am merely responding to a comment.
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Except this lacks any sort of business (or consumer) sense whatsoever. It ignores the trends, and just trivializes the matter that is a serious thing for a lot of people (much like big companies do when something is wrong with their product and would want us to do to defend them). It is not just that people pay thousands of dollars for a single game they can no longer access. It's not just that you get ripped off since bandwidth is incredibly cheap now, and the work the staff does doesn't equate to what the $90 could buy you (in this case the example was five games). It's also not just that you're renting the game (with people calling us fools behind our backs) that you will no longer have access to afters spending thousands of dollars on.
It's also about the before-mentioned trends, and the fact that there are starting to be better options out there. That games that were once P2P are going F2P at an alarming rate. That people are waking up to the truth of the matter (as a matter of speaking and not to imply people are blind to something). Sure, if one values something, then that value is justified to them. But to those with a frugal, or even a business mindset, this isn't cutting it. Thus, the implementation of a P2P system has (as history has shown) usually led to the "dreaded" F2P situation (with the exception of TSW).
I can't help but to think some of your assertions are brought about recent bad experiences such as (potentially) neverwinter and their F2P services. While I don't like F2P myself (and thus would advocate B2P or a new payment altogether as pure F2P has some disadvantages and history has shown P2P to eventually go F2P) the prospect of B2P has, as of yet, been fairly sturdy with their "barrier for entry". There's little historical evidence to state that you will one day be disappointed since it will go F2P one day.
Some people just vote for P2P without thinking, or the ramifications it could have in the future. The fear people will have in saying "will this go F2P soon? I hope not" or vise versa for the F2P crowd. Square Enix is in a good position to do this simply because they completely funded their game. They don't have a publisher or investors to pay back in the same way other MMOs will have (and thus go F2P to appease concerns or to make more money).
In a video about crafting, Wildstar's Jeremy Graffney (
) He essentially confirms something many of us have been concerned was a thing for a long time. That there is in fact a "plan" to go P2P, milk die hard P2P players, and then go F2P to milk that crowd for maximum profit. Not great for the player, but great for the game and the investors as they like money. This does not indicate that it's something they are going to do (as he was explaining how multiple payment models worked and not confirming what they want in it), but it is a confirmation of things I personally (across multiple mediums) have been saying exists for the past two years.
Now you could also say that "if it's worth $15 a month I will play it". Except that how many games have been worth it? What constitutes worth? Those who are still on board with P2P are a group of people of different tastes. There is not "great" or "perfect" game that will be worth it to bring every single willing patron to play that game indefinitely. The barrier will falter and go F2P eventually, where as a game such as the first guild wars still has that B2P barrier almost a decade later. A fraction of a fraction will be in the ball park of saying "this is the greatest thing since the last greatest thing", and that first fraction is getting smaller by the day and as there are new and quality games (such as rift) coming out with a more enticing price point for people. Therefore, a new payment model, perhaps even a hybrid, will in fact help the P2P crowd in the long run if this data is to be relied upon (all the while making people feel like they're not just paying for a community as the game itself doesn't provide enough content on a monthly basis).
This is an indication that we need a new payment model that both gives money and provides options -- or the illusion of options -- to the player. Simply saying "P2P" is best without thinking it through is the quickest way to fall into the trap above. We need to think and say what we want intelligently or else, as they say, "we'll get exactly what we asked for".
Then one could say, "well what about actual updates?" Some F2P games (usually the ones that fail or have planned to go F2P all along after going P2P and getting money to recoup costs there) go into maintenance mode and stop bringing content updates. But could you imagine a model that helps push this forward? Guild Wars 2, for instances, has released a content patch every month and is a B2P game the same as Guild Wars was. Negativity to negativity of the current P2P model will scare such a model from ever being created. Being stubborn will as well (as we gamers are known for, including yours truly).
Let's also now look at the future and not just be selfish in what we want. MMOs have essentially reached their peak when it comes to the computer. What did the consoles announce? They will support F2P like games? Not only that, but they have the power to have fully online world and games (heck, current generations have similar abilities; we are also improving internet capacities around the world and the Xboxone will require a online certification every 24 hours). If we want fresh blood, a new payment model will be needed to entice them (the console players). These people who are used to buying a game and playing it (along with being trained in buying DLC and micro transactions and accepting such). Though FFXIV in general is a nice introduction to payment models that some may naturally adopt, especially if they were already used to it on the previous FFXI.
We especially need to cling to new payment models to "save" the P2P model while also making it so some feel like they're not predatory animals, or people getting "tricked" into "logic" such as skipping lunch, or thinking that money = maturity and that P2P barriers are best for the community. Asserting that we're getting ripped off, or that things need to change is not indicative of saying "down with P2P forever", but rather is a first step in it's salvation. Being a "white knight" for something eventually dooms it if there is a problem. And yes, there is a problem, as seen by the falling of P2P and the many reasons people have (though the problems could be vast and many and not just what is obvious).
Long story short, you cannot trivialized the problems of something if you want to fix it. If you value a game so much that $4,000 is a perfectly fine price point for a single game that you can't play unless you pay even more cash, then that's your prerogative. But you would be in the minority, and while we need to fight for consumer rights and what we fight fun, we also have to consider what would be best for the companies and how they will acquire more money. If we are to do that, while also save remnants of "P2P", we need to accept the problems that others bring up (the majority that pays for these things and not our personal opinion), then we need to be open to compromise and realise, again, that there is in fact a problem.
On a more personal note, if a game such as WoW offered their expansions for Free, then I would value the $90 every six months that is spent. But as a whole now, you're only paying for "the community" and not any content (or content that could be beat in a few hours) that they put out, as their main focus is the next expansion. But they make mint, the community is crap and there is no reason to stop making money when people are willing to give it. I also wouldn't mind paying for set hours that aren't used until I log in. But as a whole I would only play maybe 8 hours a month of a game I pay $15 a month (mainly due to lack of content after a while and then a busy life researching this genre for undisclosed parties). Many others are in the boat as well.
Time to mark our calendars, eh?
I posted it elsewhere, but I can't stop watching this tribute to one of FFXIV's main villains (of 1.0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4UtKf_sSX8
The story of ARR is five years after this, so don't worry about spoiling yourself come ARR.
He's what we call in the moogle world, "one bad ass mutha kupo."
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
You will get the game for free, in addition to all of the items ARR Collector's edition purchasers will get.
The market is what the market is. Its not a question of what's right or wrong, better or worse.
Right now the market(western) is heavy into the ftp(btp). Hate it or love it. It is what it is.
Going ptp means having a smaller playerbase. It means making less money. It means watching that base slowly decline, since the people most interested in the game and willing to sub will be playing the game at or near release.
If the devs weren't willing to keep 1.0 up with its small and shrinking playerbase, what makes anyone think they will do it for reborn?
the reason im waiting for this is due to the fact that i have been wanting to play a MMO on my PS3, i cant say i am the biggest FF fans, but i do love their IP, i played FF7, 8, 9 and 10
i never played 11, but i saw my cousin play all the time during the time which i was playing WoW,
so i cant wait to finally get an adventure in the world of Eorzea
So What Now?
Hmm... Well, I'd imagine Open Beta will take place in July, with two to three weeks break from the end of beta to the official launch. If that's the case, we may be able to play it early as soon as August 13th to August 20th. Though more than likely those who pre-order or who are Legacy members will get access to the game a week or two after the Open beta closes.
All just speculation, of course. It's important to get people who were playing back when it closed in it as soon as possible, as it sucks for someone to lose their MMORPG "home" and the friends associated alongside it.
I had bought the collectors as well.Im happy.But will there be a sub fee or is it going to be buy to play
They are moving into standard MMORPG subscription. No F2P or B2p.
Anyway, as i said on a post before, Phase 4 in July, will be Open Beta saving your progress (no character wipe). So all thse people who dont want to pay a monthly fee before to know if is a good game or not, can test it for weeks and your progress will no lost if you decide to continue with the game after release.
I understad these people who dont like P2P model, but the game will be free to try it. If you dont like the game, just move to another game. If you like it, think about paying 12 bucks per month to have access to every thing in the game, not to pay 6 bucks for storage, 6 bucks for a mount, 12 bucks for dungeon packs, 10 bucks for inventory slots, etc... In the end, F2P will be always more expensive than P2P and thats the reason companies move on F2P model, to earn more money.
How do you know this?
Ralstlin is right on that one.
Ive played a dozen of Free to play games and to fully unlock all things you want you spend more money then you prolly will with a Subscription.
Iam not saying A Subcription is the best as many mmo's doesnt even deserve it these days.
These mmo aint worth it, thats why they never seem to hold it out before ditching their sub for a free to play version.
GW2 did it very solid with Buy to Play
Eve Online did it perfectly
I will wait for the Open Beta of FF XIV and play it myself before saying its worth the sub.
You can bet if Open beta isnt a succes SE might need to adjust their payment model unless they dont care about empty servers.
Its a very harsh time for mmo studio's, we have seen many tripple A studio's go flat on their face real quick.
I realy hope SE makes the mmo where its captures the magic alot of us grew up with.
That its worth to play for a long time to come.
But after buying a dozen mmo's that went straight into the trashbin after 2 months iam very sceptical as should you.
If people keep supporting mmo's that dont deliver this circle will never ends.
And SE cannot afford to make such disasters like their last FF's they made or they might be one of the last dinosaurs in gaming land.
Because i follow every single interview, official announce etc. Phase 3 Beta will be in June, confirmed, Release will be at the end of August (confirmed), Legacy players and people who pre-purchase it will have early access (mid august then) so Phase 4 is between Phase 3 (June) and early access (mid august).. so.. Phase 4 will be in July and is Open Beta with NDA lifted totally.
ffxi begs to differPaying a sub for a MMO is like going out to eat. You pay to enjoy your time and once done you leave with the memories of having had a good time.
And if you look back at the money you spent in the past and don't feel like it was worth it why did it take you so long to realize it? The problem is the person behind the keyboard, not the video game.
Thats the point TalulaRose
i want to make another calculation:
mi friends uses a cigarettes package every two days, with a cost (mean cross europe) of 5€ per package.
so they wasting 900€ every year, 9000€ every 10 years! omg
they care? nope, coz is something they like. give any benefit for them? just the opposite.. is harmful.
the point is not that i wasted 1800€ in 10 years in a game.. is that i only wasted 1800€ in 10 years on my hobby. Some people have to waste more than 1000 just to start with their hobby (Windsurfing, Scuba gear for diving, tunning, Aeromodelling, etc..)
my point is that an MMO is not "a game" is a hobby.
Again, the market is ftp because most games are built with third-party investor's cash and f2p is the best way to make the quickie buck to repay them. Square-Enix is not a third-party financed production, so they can look to the long game. And again, the problem with 1.0 was not the subscription.