If the person getting banned has actually purchased anything of value on that account then sure it's effective. Otherwise, no it's simply an inconvenience and they can just start up another account and get back to work if so inclined.
I highly doubt there is anything 100% effective, aside from iron-tight software with no way to exploit .. which we know is impossible.
All a dev can do is to increase the cost to the cheater .. and in this case, waste his time but taking away his current account.
Or if the cheater has used the cash shop, take away whatever he has purchase.
Only way top companies reduce the amount of exploiters and cheaters is to keep all critical files server side and to have strong security surrounding the communication between your game client and the server.
Even that is not 100% effective. Look at D3. The recent gold exploit is because of a un-tested programming mistake. And given how complex games are, programming mistakes happen all the time.
Well my STO was just banned last week, without even a notice stating why. I don't exploit, I don't take buggy shortcuts. But luckily I never spent a penny on the game, but I was close to level cap. Either way that ban left a sour taste in my mouth even a week after and multiple emails sent/tickets created, no answer from them. PerfectWorld is on a banning spree, and I'm not the only person I know that got banned without a proper reason. In the end they lost a potential expansion buying customer, so it's definitely a deterrent for me!
Well my STO was just banned last week, without even a notice stating why. I don't exploit, I don't take buggy shortcuts. But luckily I never spent a penny on the game, but I was close to level cap. Either way that ban left a sour taste in my mouth even a week after and multiple emails sent/tickets created, no answer from them. PerfectWorld is on a banning spree, and I'm not the only person I know that got banned without a proper reason. In the end they lost a potential expansion buying customer, so it's definitely a deterrent for me!
If what you say is true and you were unfairly banned, then this is just a prime example of collateral damage when publishers are attempting to trace exploited/duped items through their own database. Not really knowing your case, you could have been banned by association or interaction of a cheater. You were probably unknowingly in possession (doesn't matter if you gave it away, sold it or destroyed it) of a hacked/duped/exploited item that flagged your account as being part of the "suspicious activity". Since there was no financial commitment by you, the publishers probably didn't think twice and just banned you. In F2P, if you're not a paying customer, you're less valuable, so therefore, you're expendable. F2P companies tend to think think that if you do really love the game, you'll come back again anyways to play it. This is all just my opinion, personal experiences, and what I hear from my friends as well who have been playing f2p mmorpgs since 2004.
Originally posted by Karteli I'd actually prefer B2P over F2P .. at a minimum, there would be fewer spammers "Buy cheap gold$ NOW!", etc. A crook would need to either buy the game or steal someones account, so at least they wouldn't have unlimited resources.
That isn't true. There is zero gold spam in most F2P games. Why? Because you can buy the currency that matters in the cash shop. There is no ways gold farmer can compete with the developers.
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Stop it! Stop it! You're killing me... No gold seller spam in F2P games?!? Have you played one? Ever? They are far WORSE for that than P2P/B2P games because there is no way to EVER get rid of them. This is the best credibility destroying quote of all time!
Originally posted by Gravarg I wouldn't ban them, I'd start suing them. They are breaking the EULA and are liable for that. There's one thing that people will do and not do stuff for...that's money.
Isn't our society litigious enough?
Maybe they should just start carpet bomb lawsuits RIAA style.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
After the recent events in NW, a couple of buddies and I were discussing the risk vs. reward for exploiters particularly in F2P games.
It seems like the F2P model almost begs these types of players to find exploits and cheat whenever possible as there really isn't much the game companies can do to punish them.
At least with B2P and P2P games, a banned player suffers a bit of a financial hit and can have future purchase attempts blocked based on credit card records.
In F2P, a banned player can be back in the game in a matter of minutes under a new account with absolutely no consequences except the loss of the characters they had. Chances are, if you were exploiting or cheating you can probably catch back up to where you were fairly quickly.
So as per the post title, are bans even effective in F2P games?
Doesn't work in B2P models either because they were right back in there on GW2 after massive gold farmer bans cept this time they were using gathering nodes which makes diminished returns on loot completely useless don't it. Even DR is useless in these cases.
So no I don't think so but it might cause them trouble. Also if they banned IP addresses that would be a bit more difficult to change, you can call the ISP but most of them are really reluctant to change that IP.
I think temp bans are a joke. Scam and cheat, lose a week of server access.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
After the recent events in NW, a couple of buddies and I were discussing the risk vs. reward for exploiters particularly in F2P games.
It seems like the F2P model almost begs these types of players to find exploits and cheat whenever possible as there really isn't much the game companies can do to punish them.
At least with B2P and P2P games, a banned player suffers a bit of a financial hit and can have future purchase attempts blocked based on credit card records.
In F2P, a banned player can be back in the game in a matter of minutes under a new account with absolutely no consequences except the loss of the characters they had. Chances are, if you were exploiting or cheating you can probably catch back up to where you were fairly quickly.
So as per the post title, are bans even effective in F2P games?
Bans are a joke on the internet in General, Especially any F2P Game or service, Same things with forums too in general.
Bans are based on IP address when you get banned from a forum IP bans are easy to evade VIA Proxy, VPN, or VPS servers or even just waiting like 6 months until your IP Changes my ISP is always willing to reset my IP with a simple phone call they will change it without me even giving a reason if I want.
MAC: Hardware Bans are a joke too because they are easy to get around most games when you login send your hardware information to the server which can be bypassed by using a third party hardware spoofer so that the client gets fake information, or modify the client itself no matter what game it is, now such networking programs and tools do have legal uses.
So banning from a F2P Game is a joke in fact perfect world will ban the exploiters as a punishment but likely allow them to return anyways as long as they don't do it again, therefore the only solution to fix this game as I have said is wiping the game on release and starting over without the exploits/bugs so that everyone can get a fresh start and it will be fair.
Bans from F2P Games are a joke as well because players don't have to pay a dime therefore you can easily grief, troll, exploit, glitch and get away with it the only way it will be effective is if the company gets a court order for the ban or something, and even then you can just logon skype and ask all your friends to grief and troll as well for example.
I hate cheaters and exploiters in F2P Games but these are just the hard facts.
As far as Perfect world goes they only announce bans and such to keep players happy they just care about money in my opinion on all their games they really don't care about providing quality F2P services if they did I would be enjoying their games right now they don't even listen to consumers I told them about the exploits, I sent the exploits list to their email and so on and asked them to wipe they won't listen likely unless they get too much outrage and do it.
A reddit list of banned players with character & server name and reasons for the ban along with weekly server wide messages ( i recommend Friday night) that action was taken + names on a board that can be seen ingame would be real deterrent, would make the community aware that actions are being taken and would reduce the amount of trashtalk and spam in chat.
How would that be a deterrent to someone who's going to cheat/exploit ? They'd have to care about their made up forum name and the reputation that goes with it. I'm not so sure someone with the name ifukdurmom would lose much sleep over getting banned. They would probably laugh just to see it made the list.
I agree, i'm sure some people live in cloud cookoo land. There is nothing you can do about cheater whatsoever especially with F2P games.
Different IP address and email and you are right back in there, it's not like the old days or games like vanguard or ffa full loot games where it takes month to level or you have to much to lose.
F2P games are a cheaters paradise, that's the price these devs pay for choosing that system.
Personally i have better things to do than worry about cheats lol, ill just get on with my own game.
having the convenience to make a new account in the blink of an eye is just 50% of the reasons why hackers-exploiers are prevalent in F2P titles
the other 50% is the likely chance of getting away with it
lets call a spade a spade. most F2P publishers dont bother setting up a customer service , antihacking measures or the staff manpower required to police their entire playerbase. actually many of them simply cut spendings short and put NOBODY to fill that positions.
losing a char that you took time to develop is always painful to everybody, even if you can start anew for free, noone really wants to do it all again.
but the potential gain greaty outweigths the potential cons in F2P games, because there are increased chances that you will actually get away with it. it is a fact, most F2P publishers simply doesnt care enough about hackers-cheaters-exploiters to spend money figthing them, and people doesnt demand them to do because mos accept that you get wha you paid for...since your not paying money, most accept as a matter of life getting no support whatsoever.
having the convenience to make a new account in the blink of an eye is just 50% of the reasons why hackers-exploiers are prevalent in F2P titles
the other 50% is the likely chance of getting away with it
lets call a spade a spade. most F2P publishers dont bother setting up a customer service , antihacking measures or the staff manpower required to police their entire playerbase. actually many of them simply cut spendings short and put NOBODY to fill that positions.
losing a char that you took time to develop is always painful to everybody, even if you can start anew for free, noone really wants to do it all again.
but the potential gain greaty outweigths the potential cons in F2P games, because there are increased chances that you will actually get away with it. it is a fact, most F2P publishers simply doesnt care enough about hackers-cheaters-exploiters to spend money figthing them, and people doesnt demand them to do because mos accept that you get wha you paid for...since your not paying money, most accept as a matter of life getting no support whatsoever.
I agree with you somewhat which is why I stopped playing F2P games and have resorted to single player RPG games like Bioshock, Skyrim, Dead Space 3, etc .. This isn't only a F2P publisher's problem. It's an industry wide issue for online MMORPG. It's just more obvious in F2P games because there is a lack of control from the developer/publisher side of things. As someone stated previously Diablo 3 had major exploit issues recently and WoW has ALWAYS had hacking/botting problems (it's just covered up better since developers are trying hard to fix it ASAP). The lack of quality control from the developers is what is really missing and that all comes stems from corporate management. Their priority is to make money and limited hacking/exploiting isn't going to deter that. As a result, we're conditioned to tolerate these types of issues.
Legit players' common thinking is that if it doesn't effect "MY" experience and I'm having fun, then I'll live with the exploits and avoid the people in the game world involved so I don't get "banned".
As far as bad behavior goes, its hard to stop them. As far as exploits and gold sellers go, that's just weak game design manifesting.
When you gameplay and progression, level, gear, or otherwise, is unenjoyable and only appreciated because of the reward than you set up a system which drives players to avoid and defeat it. They may pay for it, use cheap bugs, or bots and hacks. The game simply isn't worthy and the progression is too focal to the game.
I stopped playing D3 some time ago. I got a msg from Blizzard saying my account (which apparently was hacked) is banned for breaking rules, gold selling or such I presume. That's just the way they made the game, instead of evolving gear progression, they decided to take advantage of this weakness and cash in on it too, followed up with hunting down outside competition for their own, self propagated exploit.
Why is gear progression so overpowered? Why is it so difficult? They can make money on it, they stopped advancing gameplay and instead advanced their revenue...
I care little for my D3 account since I already played it, and their behavior with HotS has put Blizzard on ban for now, so I'm not worried about any of my accounts, but I've evolved past irrational gameplay, and much of the piracy in MMO games would dissolve if the industry stopped relying on those crutches to.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Unfortunately, no, bans don't work. I have seen banned players return to games, through the help of their friends giving them info how to "beat the system" to get back in.
If you don't want to read about Gaming exploits (and Gold Farming) in a "dry" report, you might like to read "For the Win" by Cory Doctorow ... A real page turner about worldwide Gaming exploits, written in novel format.
Comments
Steam: Neph
Even that is not 100% effective. Look at D3. The recent gold exploit is because of a un-tested programming mistake. And given how complex games are, programming mistakes happen all the time.
Well my STO was just banned last week, without even a notice stating why. I don't exploit, I don't take buggy shortcuts. But luckily I never spent a penny on the game, but I was close to level cap. Either way that ban left a sour taste in my mouth even a week after and multiple emails sent/tickets created, no answer from them. PerfectWorld is on a banning spree, and I'm not the only person I know that got banned without a proper reason. In the end they lost a potential expansion buying customer, so it's definitely a deterrent for me!
TwitchTV: iNeoki
If what you say is true and you were unfairly banned, then this is just a prime example of collateral damage when publishers are attempting to trace exploited/duped items through their own database. Not really knowing your case, you could have been banned by association or interaction of a cheater. You were probably unknowingly in possession (doesn't matter if you gave it away, sold it or destroyed it) of a hacked/duped/exploited item that flagged your account as being part of the "suspicious activity". Since there was no financial commitment by you, the publishers probably didn't think twice and just banned you. In F2P, if you're not a paying customer, you're less valuable, so therefore, you're expendable. F2P companies tend to think think that if you do really love the game, you'll come back again anyways to play it. This is all just my opinion, personal experiences, and what I hear from my friends as well who have been playing f2p mmorpgs since 2004.
That isn't true. There is zero gold spam in most F2P games. Why? Because you can buy the currency that matters in the cash shop. There is no ways gold farmer can compete with the developers.
WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Stop it! Stop it! You're killing me... No gold seller spam in F2P games?!? Have you played one? Ever? They are far WORSE for that than P2P/B2P games because there is no way to EVER get rid of them. This is the best credibility destroying quote of all time!
Isn't our society litigious enough?
Maybe they should just start carpet bomb lawsuits RIAA style.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Doesn't work in B2P models either because they were right back in there on GW2 after massive gold farmer bans cept this time they were using gathering nodes which makes diminished returns on loot completely useless don't it. Even DR is useless in these cases.
So no I don't think so but it might cause them trouble. Also if they banned IP addresses that would be a bit more difficult to change, you can call the ISP but most of them are really reluctant to change that IP.
I think temp bans are a joke. Scam and cheat, lose a week of server access.
Bans are a joke on the internet in General, Especially any F2P Game or service, Same things with forums too in general.
Bans are based on IP address when you get banned from a forum IP bans are easy to evade VIA Proxy, VPN, or VPS servers or even just waiting like 6 months until your IP Changes my ISP is always willing to reset my IP with a simple phone call they will change it without me even giving a reason if I want.
MAC: Hardware Bans are a joke too because they are easy to get around most games when you login send your hardware information to the server which can be bypassed by using a third party hardware spoofer so that the client gets fake information, or modify the client itself no matter what game it is, now such networking programs and tools do have legal uses.
So banning from a F2P Game is a joke in fact perfect world will ban the exploiters as a punishment but likely allow them to return anyways as long as they don't do it again, therefore the only solution to fix this game as I have said is wiping the game on release and starting over without the exploits/bugs so that everyone can get a fresh start and it will be fair.
Bans from F2P Games are a joke as well because players don't have to pay a dime therefore you can easily grief, troll, exploit, glitch and get away with it the only way it will be effective is if the company gets a court order for the ban or something, and even then you can just logon skype and ask all your friends to grief and troll as well for example.
I hate cheaters and exploiters in F2P Games but these are just the hard facts.
As far as Perfect world goes they only announce bans and such to keep players happy they just care about money in my opinion on all their games they really don't care about providing quality F2P services if they did I would be enjoying their games right now they don't even listen to consumers I told them about the exploits, I sent the exploits list to their email and so on and asked them to wipe they won't listen likely unless they get too much outrage and do it.
I agree, i'm sure some people live in cloud cookoo land. There is nothing you can do about cheater whatsoever especially with F2P games.
Different IP address and email and you are right back in there, it's not like the old days or games like vanguard or ffa full loot games where it takes month to level or you have to much to lose.
F2P games are a cheaters paradise, that's the price these devs pay for choosing that system.
Personally i have better things to do than worry about cheats lol, ill just get on with my own game.
having the convenience to make a new account in the blink of an eye is just 50% of the reasons why hackers-exploiers are prevalent in F2P titles
the other 50% is the likely chance of getting away with it
lets call a spade a spade. most F2P publishers dont bother setting up a customer service , antihacking measures or the staff manpower required to police their entire playerbase. actually many of them simply cut spendings short and put NOBODY to fill that positions.
losing a char that you took time to develop is always painful to everybody, even if you can start anew for free, noone really wants to do it all again.
but the potential gain greaty outweigths the potential cons in F2P games, because there are increased chances that you will actually get away with it. it is a fact, most F2P publishers simply doesnt care enough about hackers-cheaters-exploiters to spend money figthing them, and people doesnt demand them to do because mos accept that you get wha you paid for...since your not paying money, most accept as a matter of life getting no support whatsoever.
I agree with you somewhat which is why I stopped playing F2P games and have resorted to single player RPG games like Bioshock, Skyrim, Dead Space 3, etc .. This isn't only a F2P publisher's problem. It's an industry wide issue for online MMORPG. It's just more obvious in F2P games because there is a lack of control from the developer/publisher side of things. As someone stated previously Diablo 3 had major exploit issues recently and WoW has ALWAYS had hacking/botting problems (it's just covered up better since developers are trying hard to fix it ASAP). The lack of quality control from the developers is what is really missing and that all comes stems from corporate management. Their priority is to make money and limited hacking/exploiting isn't going to deter that. As a result, we're conditioned to tolerate these types of issues.
Legit players' common thinking is that if it doesn't effect "MY" experience and I'm having fun, then I'll live with the exploits and avoid the people in the game world involved so I don't get "banned".
When you gameplay and progression, level, gear, or otherwise, is unenjoyable and only appreciated because of the reward than you set up a system which drives players to avoid and defeat it. They may pay for it, use cheap bugs, or bots and hacks. The game simply isn't worthy and the progression is too focal to the game.
I stopped playing D3 some time ago. I got a msg from Blizzard saying my account (which apparently was hacked) is banned for breaking rules, gold selling or such I presume. That's just the way they made the game, instead of evolving gear progression, they decided to take advantage of this weakness and cash in on it too, followed up with hunting down outside competition for their own, self propagated exploit.
Why is gear progression so overpowered? Why is it so difficult? They can make money on it, they stopped advancing gameplay and instead advanced their revenue...
I care little for my D3 account since I already played it, and their behavior with HotS has put Blizzard on ban for now, so I'm not worried about any of my accounts, but I've evolved past irrational gameplay, and much of the piracy in MMO games would dissolve if the industry stopped relying on those crutches to.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
Unfortunately, no, bans don't work. I have seen banned players return to games, through the help of their friends giving them info how to "beat the system" to get back in.
If you don't want to read about Gaming exploits (and Gold Farming) in a "dry" report, you might like to read "For the Win" by Cory Doctorow ... A real page turner about worldwide Gaming exploits, written in novel format.