There is "hardcore games" which require a huge time investment and dedication to do anything.
There is hardcore- or "ironman mode" which implies harsh death penalty and/or no load/save function.
There are players who who play such games and refer to themselves "hardcore players", but often these people are no more hardcore than anyone else.
There are "hardcore players" who are willing to spend hours upon hours on a game - any game.
Then there are hardcore players who are so good they get payed to play (e-sports).
Are you really a hardcore gamer or do you just play certain types of games?
That's where I was going. What is a hardcore gamer? I game 20 to 30 hours a week, but I don't want to dedicate all of that time to 1 game. I also want playing the game to get me rewards to do more things in the game, what i don't want is to work to do things in the game.
I have absolutely no interest in helping fund/further development of "your" game.
It's perfectly understandable that you feel the same way about "my" games .
I fail to see a problem here!
Signed
Mr. Casual.
haha nice.
but I have a suggestion, I see there is a problem everyone understanding if hardcore vs casual.
this game, Asheron's Call 1 ~ is a hardcore game by definition, but it only takes casual time to partake in content.
hardcore?
seemless world,
pve and pvp servers,
random loot generation,
player run market and crafting,
each item is own material and can be salvaged onto other items,
complete skill and attribute freedom, build that mage/rogue you've wanted and apply your real skills in twitch combat,
no boring quests, all quests completely lore based and hours on handcrafted textures, items, npcs, dialogues, books and lore, unique and powerful items, puzzles, over come pits and ledges with skill and technique, locked doors, levers and buttons, all uniquely places and immersive.
decal supported for web integration, manuals, guides, travel routes, fletching/cooking/combat/salvaging/assisting friends while busy but attending your computer when you can...
hop on the weekend for a few hours and explore the world and find new friends and obstacles to overcome and treasures to find... then lay back in your new favorite spot and fish or kill monsters while you wash dishes, or take care of the kids, even sleep.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 Yes, casuals have taken things too far. And it's about to get hardcore when EQ Next and other sandboxes come out.
Wouldn't expect too much hardcore from a game developer that ruined an entire sandbox MMO -SWG- and converted it into a very poorly coded themepark in order to lure the 'casual' players.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by chrisatron <snip>I feel as if developers are catering to casual players too much and not so much to their base hardcore fans. <snip>
There aren't enough 'hardcore' players, or the 'hardcore' players can't agree one what they want to play. They do not have enough buying power to affect game development.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by chrisatron I feel as if developers are catering to casual players too much and not so much to their base hardcore fans.
There aren't enough 'hardcore' players, or the 'hardcore' players can't agree one what they want to play. They do not have enough buying power to affect game development.
I bet over half of the "hardcore players" aren't really hardcore at all. They like the idea and they love to look down on others - whatever the excuse.
Look at all this "console games" and "WoW generation" crap: the exact same thing.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Developers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"
Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
So many things wrong with this post.
Developers are not obligated to cater to anyone just because you say so. if they decide their core audience is now the casuals, it is their prerogative, and they can cater their game to anyone they want.
Secondly, i don't commit to any MMO, and i do play them. They are entertainment products, and i use them as i see fit, not what you think how i should play games. It is the devs that put in great features like LFD .. obviously trying to get my play-time. I don't see any reason not to play a MMO, on short spurts, if it is fun.
How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?
Because such threads are just repeating exactly the same thing as posted before. It is quite appropriate. A repeated response to a repeated topic.
Of course, there will be variation on the language to make it more fun.
Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality.
But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.
Oh look. Another thread where all retorts to Naris's insults have been mod edited. What a coincidence... Too bad too, denying readers some hilarity.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been deleted yet, a lot of my previous ones have...
But once again, I don't always mean time consuming when I say 'hardcore' I generally mean for the game to be more difficult than it already is. Be that mob strength, boss difficulty or other aspects that would require the player to think. The standard now in EVERY WoW dungeon is to aggro the entire instance and blow through everything like butter. A new player hasn't even got the time to digest what is happening, let alone experience the lore' due to an impatient tank etc. This is all happened because the game has become dumbed down and down.
I just want a game that will challenge me in a persistent world, I don't mean I want to farm for 8 hours for this one item to drop that may or may not be something worthwhile depending on the weather conditions. Although on a lesser extent to that model, is it not gratifying when you have put the time in to get that item?
How about death penalty's? in FFXI you would lose EXP every time you died and could even de-level, man did that suck balls but it made me try harder and when we got through a long boss fight with the skin of our teeth it felt really rewarding and it brought out linkshell together. Damn, you can't even die in Guild Wars 2, you get this safety net and every class can rez everyone.
This removes the fear of death and makes the game feel hollow and 2-dimensional. Nothing I do matters because nothing I do has consequence.
Originally posted by Torgrim Originally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by TorgrimOriginally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by chrisatronDevelopers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
So many things wrong with this post.Developers are not obligated to cater to anyone just because you say so. if they decide their core audience is now the casuals, it is their prerogative, and they can cater their game to anyone they want.Secondly, i don't commit to any MMO, and i do play them. They are entertainment products, and i use them as i see fit, not what you think how i should play games. It is the devs that put in great features like LFD .. obviously trying to get my play-time. I don't see any reason not to play a MMO, on short spurts, if it is fun.How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?Because such threads are just repeating exactly the same thing as posted before. It is quite appropriate. A repeated response to a repeated topic.Of course, there will be variation on the language to make it more fun.Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality.
But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.
Why is it OK for the copy/paste threads to get started, but not OK for a copy/paste response? If it's the same thread as before, why not the same response as before?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by chrisatronDevelopers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
So many things wrong with this post.Developers are not obligated to cater to anyone just because you say so. if they decide their core audience is now the casuals, it is their prerogative, and they can cater their game to anyone they want.Secondly, i don't commit to any MMO, and i do play them. They are entertainment products, and i use them as i see fit, not what you think how i should play games. It is the devs that put in great features like LFD .. obviously trying to get my play-time. I don't see any reason not to play a MMO, on short spurts, if it is fun.
How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?
Because such threads are just repeating exactly the same thing as posted before. It is quite appropriate. A repeated response to a repeated topic.Of course, there will be variation on the language to make it more fun.
Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality.
But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.
Why is it OK for the copy/paste threads to get started, but not OK for a copy/paste response? If it's the same thread as before, why not the same response as before?
Wait??? So you're saying there have been other thread topics about Hardcore vs Casual??? Next you will be saying there are more than one thread about, "what is a Sandbox?"
Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality.
But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.
As long as you choose to use words like "spoonfed" and "instant gratification", you are clearly showing that no, you do not understand his position. The fact that you cannot discuss the matter without words with derogatory meanings, patronizing tone or hidden insults shows you obviously don't get it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 Yes, casuals have taken things too far. And it's about to get hardcore when EQ Next and other sandboxes come out.
I seriously doubt EQN will be hardcore at all.....Just look at what they did with both EQ and EQ2 and that will most likely point you in the direction of where EQN is headed...They jsut made a hardcore game (Wizardry Online) that is pretty much a disaster from a sales standpoint so Im sure they aren't looking for more of that.
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by TorgrimOriginally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by TorgrimOriginally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by chrisatronDevelopers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
So many things wrong with this post.Developers are not obligated to cater to anyone just because you say so. if they decide their core audience is now the casuals, it is their prerogative, and they can cater their game to anyone they want.Secondly, i don't commit to any MMO, and i do play them. They are entertainment products, and i use them as i see fit, not what you think how i should play games. It is the devs that put in great features like LFD .. obviously trying to get my play-time. I don't see any reason not to play a MMO, on short spurts, if it is fun.How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?Because such threads are just repeating exactly the same thing as posted before. It is quite appropriate. A repeated response to a repeated topic.Of course, there will be variation on the language to make it more fun.Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality.But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.Why is it OK for the copy/paste threads to get started, but not OK for a copy/paste response? If it's the same thread as before, why not the same response as before?Wait??? So you're saying there have been other thread topics about Hardcore vs Casual??? Next you will be saying there are more than one thread about, "what is a Sandbox?" :)
Heh, I almost had a kneejerk copy/paste reaction to this. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I prefer the newer category of Mid-core. Players who like challenge but don't have a lot of time.
That is the category I prefer to play in.
Games that do not overly reward players who play ten times more then myself, compete fairly, and still feel like my time was not wasted (character progression) sound mid-core-ish.
That sounds just about right.
WL
Naw man, that's called Softcore. You don't go all the way ya know, like those hard cores.
but I have a suggestion, I see there is a problem everyone understanding if hardcore vs casual.
this game, Asheron's Call 1 ~ is a hardcore game by definition, but it only takes casual time to partake in content.
hardcore?
seemless world,
pve and pvp servers,
random loot generation,
player run market and crafting,
each item is own material and can be salvaged onto other items,
complete skill and attribute freedom, build that mage/rogue you've wanted and apply your real skills in twitch combat,
no boring quests, all quests completely lore based and hours on handcrafted textures, items, npcs, dialogues, books and lore, unique and powerful items, puzzles, over come pits and ledges with skill and technique, locked doors, levers and buttons, all uniquely places and immersive.
decal supported for web integration, manuals, guides, travel routes, fletching/cooking/combat/salvaging/assisting friends while busy but attending your computer when you can...
hop on the weekend for a few hours and explore the world and find new friends and obstacles to overcome and treasures to find... then lay back in your new favorite spot and fish or kill monsters while you wash dishes, or take care of the kids, even sleep.
casual, but hardcore. try it, Asheron's Call.
It's interesting that you consider those elements "hardcore".
I mean, I can't really agree or disagree because nobody has ever come up with a clear definition for the term yet. Certainly I offered up two of my own (A. players who enjoy deep games, --or-- B. players willing to suffer extensive timesinks (though not necessarily deeper gameplay.))
I mean I could point out that the lack of "boring quests" in AC1 also meant that the primary gameplay of any given session was "endlessly grind mobs", which I think a majority of players would agree is substantially more repetitive than a quest-heavy game (almost by definition. In one type of game you are constantly being sent to various places to do various things. In the other, you sit and farm the same 1-3 mob types until you level up enough times to farm a new set of 1-3 mob types.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There is "hardcore games" which require a huge time investment and dedication to do anything.
There is hardcore- or "ironman mode" which implies harsh death penalty and/or no load/save function.
There are players who who play such games and refer to themselves "hardcore players", but often these people are no more hardcore than anyone else.
There are "hardcore players" who are willing to spend hours upon hours on a game - any game.
Then there are hardcore players who are so good they get payed to play (e-sports).
Are you really a hardcore gamer or do you just play certain types of games?
This is why most gamers who come to this forum really can't handle a real Sandbox. No I am not talking about FFA Full Loot. I mean a real Sandbox aka make your own gameplay.
like the examples in the quote here. Anybody who is looking for harder gameplay can easily make their own hard gameplay. Nobody is needed to handhold you to do something you enjoy.
why not Ironman if you so damn core? You can do that shit your self....
I am just curious as to what the hardcore gamers play these days? With the market being saturated with the most casual of games [Guild Wars 2], what is there for the hardcore crowd? The only two games that come to mind are EVE Online and Final Fantasy XI and even FFXI has been scaled way back and is now a joke.
I feel as if developers are catering to casual players too much and not so much to their base hardcore fans. Things like Dungeon Finder, terribly easy leveling and instant gratification are pretty much the norm now and it's starting to become beyond a joke. Casual players complain when they can't solo the entirety of the games content so the devs scale it back. One thing that devs have started to inject is the normal and hard mode dungeons but... shouldn't these be hard anyway? why should I be able to roflspam my abilities and prance around and come out with tier gear [WoW] Where is the meaningful content? Never I have felt so good after finally getting my BLU spells in FFXI, all the work, all the hours meeting new people along the way, it was a journey, it wasn't about the end reward.
Developers should stop catering so much to casuals and start making content and games that require some sort of thought, some strategy and furthermore teamwork! Also, I hate to hear this "Well I can't play for hours on end grinding for particular gear, so it should be easier!"
Look, if you don't have the time to commit to an MMO then you shouldn't play an MMO, simple.
I don't have the time to put into EVE, it doesn't mean I should complain that their game is too difficult and demand they scale it back for me; I simply don't play.
Man, can you imagine if say... Tomb Raider 1 [PS1] was re-released for this generation? "Where is the guide telling me where to go? where is the enemy health bars? why aren't I automatically regaining hp? help i've ran out of med-packs! this game sucks"
my 2 cents...
Because having more people playing these games and bringing in more money to further develop these games is a bad thing. This entire hardcore vs. casual thing is dumb.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Making MMO games costs a lot more money now than it used to - which means you have to sell more copies.
The so called "hardcore" gamer is a bit of a rare breed.
Not enough of them to justify AAA budgets.
But the real trend now is options - options are good.
Difficulty settings, hard modes, different servers types, etc.
And besides, most "hardcore" gamers have no idea what they are calling themselves. Any game can be played "hardcore." There are hardcore Hearts players or hardcore Pokemon players...
Anyone who thinks a world-first competitive raiding guild in WoW isn't "hardcore" is, quite frankly, a moron.
Certain game mechanics, like those found in EvE or old-school UO/EQ or FFXI certainly tend to attract more of the "hardcore" type of players.
But investment <= expected return.
Punishing, brutal and/or grind heavy systems are just not popular.
I can explain to you in a pm why pokemon can be played hardcore, you can tell who's hardcore and who isn't based on whether they attend the regionals, nationals, or the championships.
On the subject at hand, it sounds like the OP consider major time investment which doesn't work with the current crowd because many people have life responsibilities to attend to, so they lowered the time to grind down and made it easier to form parties and what not.
Originally posted by maplestone Refresh my memory - how do I tell if I'm hardcore or casual?
Personally, I see "hardcore gamers" as the ones who dissect a game. They know everything about it, the mechanics, how abilities best fit together, what is the best weapon and armor, and every other aspect. Many times, hardcore gamers make websites with the information they found.
In my definition, there are many hardcore gamers playing today's MMOs. Lots of players research games inside and out. "Optimum Build" sites are easy to find for almost every MMO out there.
I am casual. I care not a whit for numbers and mechanics. If I swing my sword, do I hit the monster? If I swing enough times, does it die before I do? I care not for this "DPS" thing that other players seem to worship.
Now, when "hardcore" and "casual" are used to describe games, I have no answer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
What I understand about being a hardcore gamer are those who really dedicated to the game that they are playing. And really master everything in the game. I must say that those hardcore gamer would sometimes understand the game industry also and well rounded with the gaming community. Casual gamers are those who only plays game when they want to
Someone who play 24/7 or raider who constandly doing dungeon?
Majority these days first try find sites that have all the info on game, that for me are absolutely no hardcore players nomatter how fast and good they become i see it as cheating.
Playing hardcore for me is find out everything yourself, so no wiki's/guides/walkthroughs or any info on the game, also looking at maps with all the info on your seconds screen is for me ezmode casual players no go for hardcore players.
Every game i play never seek any clues and solutions on internet i figure everything out myself, thats hardcore.
I will now, in true internet fashion, without having read anything that has come before my post, define the difference between the hardcore gamer and the casual gamer AND tell you what the hardcore gamers are playing. I will be doing this in my own words so please excuse the differences in inflection if you notice it
Hardcore gamers
Are playing games EVERY DAY.
They are on their pc's and laptops at work playing or talking about games.
They think about what they are going to do in the game when they are not playing or talking about the game.
Are out there upgrading their shit in order to play the next game.
Are really mad that they have to upgrade their shit because of the next game, but do it anyway.
There is no age limit, there is no skill bar, all that is needed to qualify you as a hardcore gamer is a SOLID OBSESSION WITH YOUR GAME.
Got crap all over their keyboards from eating in front of the computer.
Got (or will have) bad backs, blood clots, and swamp crack.
Casual gamers.
Get up in the middle of grouping to go play frisbee golf with their friends.
Bot all week so that they can get in on the weekend, if they have the time, and hang out with their friends and still be cool. (That's if there's not a serious game of frisbee golf going on somewhere).
Must get drunk in order to play. (No, you are not a hardcore gamer, you are an alcoholic casual gamer).
Puts the game down as soon as upgrades are needed.
Puts the game down as soon as it becomes a problem around the house.
Puts the game down as soon as mom/wife calls for dinner (hardcore gamers go hard!! F*%$ that food!)
And finally, the hardcore gamers are playing WHATEVER THE F**#@ THEY WANT TO because they are HARDCORE GAMERS!!
Casual gamers are playing WoW or anything listed as a WoW killer, cause that's all a weak assed muggle typed wanna be down zombie from the outside world has ever heard of. But they're not REALLY playing that either because (in my most whiney voice)
"I had to give it up man, I was in way too deep!"
What kind of shit is that for a gamer to ever say? Getting in deep is what we're freaking all about!!!
Refresh my memory - how do I tell if I'm hardcore or casual?
If you enjoy a game and play because it's fun, then you are a casual. Having a job is a plus
If you play "to be better than the other baddie/carebear/wusses" then you are hardcore. Having a job excludes you unless you have insomnia and can get your 14 hours per day in.
If you enjoy instanced pvp where you opponents are just a numerous and powerful as you, you are a casual
If you and you ten buddies in full plate male enjoy killing noobs who are so weak they don't stand a chance, you are hard core.
Comments
Also, it does have permadeath built in.
That's where I was going. What is a hardcore gamer? I game 20 to 30 hours a week, but I don't want to dedicate all of that time to 1 game. I also want playing the game to get me rewards to do more things in the game, what i don't want is to work to do things in the game.
haha nice.
but I have a suggestion, I see there is a problem everyone understanding if hardcore vs casual.
this game, Asheron's Call 1 ~ is a hardcore game by definition, but it only takes casual time to partake in content.
hardcore?
seemless world,
pve and pvp servers,
random loot generation,
player run market and crafting,
each item is own material and can be salvaged onto other items,
complete skill and attribute freedom, build that mage/rogue you've wanted and apply your real skills in twitch combat,
no boring quests, all quests completely lore based and hours on handcrafted textures, items, npcs, dialogues, books and lore, unique and powerful items, puzzles, over come pits and ledges with skill and technique, locked doors, levers and buttons, all uniquely places and immersive.
decal supported for web integration, manuals, guides, travel routes, fletching/cooking/combat/salvaging/assisting friends while busy but attending your computer when you can...
hop on the weekend for a few hours and explore the world and find new friends and obstacles to overcome and treasures to find... then lay back in your new favorite spot and fish or kill monsters while you wash dishes, or take care of the kids, even sleep.
casual, but hardcore. try it, Asheron's Call.
Wouldn't expect too much hardcore from a game developer that ruined an entire sandbox MMO -SWG- and converted it into a very poorly coded themepark in order to lure the 'casual' players.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
There aren't enough 'hardcore' players, or the 'hardcore' players can't agree one what they want to play. They do not have enough buying power to affect game development.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I bet over half of the "hardcore players" aren't really hardcore at all. They like the idea and they love to look down on others - whatever the excuse.
Look at all this "console games" and "WoW generation" crap: the exact same thing.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality.
But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Oh look. Another thread where all retorts to Naris's insults have been mod edited. What a coincidence... Too bad too, denying readers some hilarity.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I'm surprised this thread hasn't been deleted yet, a lot of my previous ones have...
But once again, I don't always mean time consuming when I say 'hardcore' I generally mean for the game to be more difficult than it already is. Be that mob strength, boss difficulty or other aspects that would require the player to think. The standard now in EVERY WoW dungeon is to aggro the entire instance and blow through everything like butter. A new player hasn't even got the time to digest what is happening, let alone experience the lore' due to an impatient tank etc. This is all happened because the game has become dumbed down and down.
I just want a game that will challenge me in a persistent world, I don't mean I want to farm for 8 hours for this one item to drop that may or may not be something worthwhile depending on the weather conditions. Although on a lesser extent to that model, is it not gratifying when you have put the time in to get that item?
How about death penalty's? in FFXI you would lose EXP every time you died and could even de-level, man did that suck balls but it made me try harder and when we got through a long boss fight with the skin of our teeth it felt really rewarding and it brought out linkshell together. Damn, you can't even die in Guild Wars 2, you get this safety net and every class can rez everyone.
This removes the fear of death and makes the game feel hollow and 2-dimensional. Nothing I do matters because nothing I do has consequence.
I just want substance.
another 2 cents
How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?
Because such threads are just repeating exactly the same thing as posted before. It is quite appropriate. A repeated response to a repeated topic. Of course, there will be variation on the language to make it more fun.
Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality.
But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.
Why is it OK for the copy/paste threads to get started, but not OK for a copy/paste response? If it's the same thread as before, why not the same response as before?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Wait??? So you're saying there have been other thread topics about Hardcore vs Casual??? Next you will be saying there are more than one thread about, "what is a Sandbox?"
As long as you choose to use words like "spoonfed" and "instant gratification", you are clearly showing that no, you do not understand his position. The fact that you cannot discuss the matter without words with derogatory meanings, patronizing tone or hidden insults shows you obviously don't get it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I seriously doubt EQN will be hardcore at all.....Just look at what they did with both EQ and EQ2 and that will most likely point you in the direction of where EQN is headed...They jsut made a hardcore game (Wizardry Online) that is pretty much a disaster from a sales standpoint so Im sure they aren't looking for more of that.
How come you jump into every single thread that is about more hardcore gameplay in MMOs and basically writes exactly the same thing?
Because such threads are just repeating exactly the same thing as posted before. It is quite appropriate. A repeated response to a repeated topic. Of course, there will be variation on the language to make it more fun.
Yes we all get it you play for fun, yes we all get it you like instant gratification rules, yes we all get it you play MMOs and singleplayers games for fun and yes we all get the silver spoonfed mentality. But please stop just for once with your copy/paste respons and play the games you like ok, you seems to have shitloads of games and still you had the time to jump into threads like this and yet again tell everyone you like silverspoon feed games, ok we got it, just let it go.
Why is it OK for the copy/paste threads to get started, but not OK for a copy/paste response? If it's the same thread as before, why not the same response as before?
Wait??? So you're saying there have been other thread topics about Hardcore vs Casual??? Next you will be saying there are more than one thread about, "what is a Sandbox?" :)
Heh, I almost had a kneejerk copy/paste reaction to this. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Naw man, that's called Softcore. You don't go all the way ya know, like those hard cores.
It's interesting that you consider those elements "hardcore".
I mean, I can't really agree or disagree because nobody has ever come up with a clear definition for the term yet. Certainly I offered up two of my own (A. players who enjoy deep games, --or-- B. players willing to suffer extensive timesinks (though not necessarily deeper gameplay.))
I mean I could point out that the lack of "boring quests" in AC1 also meant that the primary gameplay of any given session was "endlessly grind mobs", which I think a majority of players would agree is substantially more repetitive than a quest-heavy game (almost by definition. In one type of game you are constantly being sent to various places to do various things. In the other, you sit and farm the same 1-3 mob types until you level up enough times to farm a new set of 1-3 mob types.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This is why most gamers who come to this forum really can't handle a real Sandbox. No I am not talking about FFA Full Loot. I mean a real Sandbox aka make your own gameplay.
like the examples in the quote here. Anybody who is looking for harder gameplay can easily make their own hard gameplay. Nobody is needed to handhold you to do something you enjoy.
why not Ironman if you so damn core? You can do that shit your self....
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Because having more people playing these games and bringing in more money to further develop these games is a bad thing. This entire hardcore vs. casual thing is dumb.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I can explain to you in a pm why pokemon can be played hardcore, you can tell who's hardcore and who isn't based on whether they attend the regionals, nationals, or the championships.
On the subject at hand, it sounds like the OP consider major time investment which doesn't work with the current crowd because many people have life responsibilities to attend to, so they lowered the time to grind down and made it easier to form parties and what not.
In my definition, there are many hardcore gamers playing today's MMOs. Lots of players research games inside and out. "Optimum Build" sites are easy to find for almost every MMO out there.
I am casual. I care not a whit for numbers and mechanics. If I swing my sword, do I hit the monster? If I swing enough times, does it die before I do? I care not for this "DPS" thing that other players seem to worship.
Now, when "hardcore" and "casual" are used to describe games, I have no answer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
What is hardcore player?
Someone who play 24/7 or raider who constandly doing dungeon?
Majority these days first try find sites that have all the info on game, that for me are absolutely no hardcore players nomatter how fast and good they become i see it as cheating.
Playing hardcore for me is find out everything yourself, so no wiki's/guides/walkthroughs or any info on the game, also looking at maps with all the info on your seconds screen is for me ezmode casual players no go for hardcore players.
Every game i play never seek any clues and solutions on internet i figure everything out myself, thats hardcore.
I will now, in true internet fashion, without having read anything that has come before my post, define the difference between the hardcore gamer and the casual gamer AND tell you what the hardcore gamers are playing. I will be doing this in my own words so please excuse the differences in inflection if you notice it
Hardcore gamers
Are playing games EVERY DAY.
They are on their pc's and laptops at work playing or talking about games.
They think about what they are going to do in the game when they are not playing or talking about the game.
Are out there upgrading their shit in order to play the next game.
Are really mad that they have to upgrade their shit because of the next game, but do it anyway.
There is no age limit, there is no skill bar, all that is needed to qualify you as a hardcore gamer is a SOLID OBSESSION WITH YOUR GAME.
Got crap all over their keyboards from eating in front of the computer.
Got (or will have) bad backs, blood clots, and swamp crack.
Casual gamers.
Get up in the middle of grouping to go play frisbee golf with their friends.
Bot all week so that they can get in on the weekend, if they have the time, and hang out with their friends and still be cool. (That's if there's not a serious game of frisbee golf going on somewhere).
Must get drunk in order to play. (No, you are not a hardcore gamer, you are an alcoholic casual gamer).
Puts the game down as soon as upgrades are needed.
Puts the game down as soon as it becomes a problem around the house.
Puts the game down as soon as mom/wife calls for dinner (hardcore gamers go hard!! F*%$ that food!)
And finally, the hardcore gamers are playing WHATEVER THE F**#@ THEY WANT TO because they are HARDCORE GAMERS!!
Casual gamers are playing WoW or anything listed as a WoW killer, cause that's all a weak assed muggle typed wanna be down zombie from the outside world has ever heard of. But they're not REALLY playing that either because (in my most whiney voice)
"I had to give it up man, I was in way too deep!"
What kind of shit is that for a gamer to ever say? Getting in deep is what we're freaking all about!!!
Someone got bullied in Darkfall?