Is eBuying your way to the top cheating?

dr_crypto · November 2005

Well this was going to be a rant at how damned angry I am at all the people who are buying their MMORPG currency and items on sites like eBay and VPM (virtualpropertymarket.com).

It was my opinion that this is the very worst form of cheating and it represents an even greater disease in modern society where people can buy just about anything they want. They can 'buy' their entire lives.

You dont need to go to the beach to get that nice suntan - you can just buy it in a bottle at your nearest chemist. You dont need to be a badass to have ripped and faded jeans - you can buy em like that.

But then I read some article over on Castronova's blog (terranova.blogs.com) which said that maybe this isn't so unfair afterall but actually a levelling of the playing field.

Why should someone who works their butt off 24/7 to earn an income be excluded from having a suntan or that +8 vorpal sword that takes 2 months of game time to win? If they've worked hard to save up a bit of extra cash - why shouldnt they be able to convert it to whatever they want?

I can't make up my mind - what say YOU?

theanimedude · November 2005

put it this way... I dont think people should have to buy things off the game to be able to have a level playing field... instead I think the games should account more for the casual players by getting rid of level systems that separate casual and other players... therefore lessening the gap. Rather, let more hardcore players train more skills, and be more diverse. This way, they still have their advantage, but casual players still have a chance.

Either way, I dont really support the whole "look I can buy everything, so whats the point of even playing" style.

Ranma13 · November 2005

There's 2 sides to this issue:

1. People who worked hard to get items in the game that they play and want everyone to start off on the same playing field, as in level 1 newbie with no items. These people hate those that buy in-game items with real life money because they did not earn it and they feel it's unfair to them that they worked for hours and hours to get some item when someone else bought it without putting any time into it at all.

2. People who don't have all the time in the world to play the game or want access to certain weapons and equipment without having to put in the long hours to acquire it. These people believe that it's not worth their time to grind in order to get the items when they can receive the benefit of it for less.

Personally, I simply don't care. I don't approve of buying in-game items for real life money, nor do I disapprove of it. Either way, someone had to put in the time to get the item. The person who spent the time to get the item had to spend that time getting it, and the person who bought it had to earn money in real life. The number of items in the game do not increase, it's simply passed from one player to another. You can make the argument that a player who has only been playing for a short while can use their real life cash to get a lot of items in a short amount of time, but really who does that bother? Just because they have all those items, does it upset the game economy or somehow unbalances their game? They're still restricted by the rules of the game. Also, you could make the argument that it promotes farming. Every player has one point or another farmed mobs themselves for an item drop, whether it be for a quest or otherwise.

Think about it this way: isn't this the same thing as buying items in-game with in-game cash? You worked to get the cash and you used your cash to pay for items that other people have acquired. You can say that a level 10 character can't get the same amount of cash a more experienced player can but that's where twinking comes in. That happens all the time and yet nobody complains...

lunamonster · November 2005

Remember when the geeks with no life did best in game's? Well no more now it's the person with the highest paying job just like that place called real life. In my opinion it is cheating why should someone be better off when they didn't work for it? But that's only part of the problem Ebaying is also a catalyst for other problems like inflation, farming and cheating. Companys like IGE offer people money for in game currency people then realise that there's money to be made so they make a bot to collect that money for them. That person then makes some good money to sell to IGE, they hire people to work for them go to different servers soon entire zones have been taken over by farmers working for this guy and he keeps doing it because it's profitable.

In the above example sure if people aren't Ebaying there are going to be bots but the person I described wouldn't have made one. People are still going to cheat but if it's making money a lot of more people are going to do which will take up all the popular zones and inflate the economy.

On the economy sure the farmers themselves are gaining in game items just like you but remember the buyer isn't. This means that people that have enough money have an unlimited source of in game money they can then buy items for a lot more than the normal price because hell they can always buy more money. Now if enough people do this then that small percentage of players that can afford that money drive prices up faster than it comes in to the game. Now legitimate players are going to have more trouble getting gold because it's still being dropped at the same rate as before and now the sellers and bots are crowding zones so it makes it harder for the legetimate player.

Bottom line personnaly I think it's cheating.

DamonVile · November 2005

Originally posted by lunamonster

Remember when the geeks with no life did best in game's? Well no more now it's the person with the highest paying job just like that place called real life.

That's BS. People have proved time and again that the ones who put the most time into a game know the most about it and have the most "player" skill. Anyone can buy the best equipment but that doesn't mean they'll know how to play thier class.

Seeing top lvl ebay noobs is pretty commen in todays MMOG, they end up being a joke when someone who has way worse gear kills them easily, or when they constantly screw up in PvE content and get the group killed.

I'd never pay real money for anything other then my subscription, but if that's what people think is fun .../shrug

Resetgun · November 2005

This issue has been so many times in forums that I really have lost my count. I really don't bother to write my reasoning about this issue anymore - I just say that: losers like these can go to h*** and f*** themselves. "eBayers" (buyers and sellers) will allways end to my ignore lists and they are allways going to be kicked out from my guild or my team - they stop existing in my gaming experience.

Billen · November 2005

My opinion is that the OT went out of his way to advertise for VPM. Well done though.

boeskyle · November 2005

Weak game mechanics and/or content inspires it. It is here to stay unfortunately.

Two things reduce its advantages - full looting and permanent death.

nomadian · November 2005

objectively yes and no.

Yes because you cheat the mechanisms which everyother player has to go through.

No because who really cares?do you care the warrior next to you who you don't even know has bought all his gear?
What I don't like is an ingame mechanism being turned into an outgame mechanism whereby people are earning money to sell it on ebay. Or where the decisions in a group of whether person x needs or greeds an item is determined as need because that person wants to sell the item on ebay. That goes against group courtesy.
So mainly I don't like it.

brostyn · November 2005

Is typing in a code to get lots of cash cheating in single player games? If so, then the answer is yes.

IMO, you should play for the challenge. Although, it is fun to slaughter. Just don't do it 100% of the time, or it will get old.

I agree with an above poster. If it was fun to gain money the market for ebuying would be at a lower demand. Unfortunately, its very tedious to gain money. As long as this exist we will have people ebuying, both toons and cash.

Imperatorian · November 2005

I think this is just a good advertisement for VPM - seeing as how they just opened, and he only has one post.

deggilator · November 2005

Since you use an out of game element to gain an in-game benefit, an action that is not allowed by the rules of the game, yes, it is cheating. On the other hand, I do not think it's such a big deal as many people make it sound. Noone likes cheaters and I understand that, should they be found they should be permanently banned without doubt. But any comments about how "they've ruined the game's economy" and the like are exaggerations.

StanLee2 · November 2005

Im torn on this issue too.

On one hand it really sucks that the best gear in a game is something you'd have to spend literally months or years to get...and thats if you have enough DKP points to roll on it after a big raid. Having to suck up to guild officers sucks. So yeah, Im kinda for it.

BUT BUT BUT

Sometimes you're forced to join a pickup group...and when someone has a top-level character you expect them to know how to play it. Not act like they know and get you killed multiple times, including corpse runs, losing equipment, and taking multiple hours to achieve your objective while they learn how to play it.

I have bought characters in the original EQ which at the time was hardly ever done. But I spent the time to learn to play the character before I wasted anyone's time acting like I knew how to play it.

Jorev · November 2005

Originally posted by Imperatorian

I think this is just a good advertisement for VPM - seeing as how they just opened, and he only has one post.

Yeah it's pretty damn obvious that was their intent. I never heard of that site until now.

crack_fox · November 2005

Is it cheating? Probably. Does it matter? Probably not. A lot of players seem to forget that with MMO's, the joy is in the journey. Buying your high-level character, or the plat for your uber-gear, is like buying a book and reading only the last chapter. It misses the point entirely. The journey, or the grind if you prefer, IS the game. If you view it as such an awful chore that you resent others who have taken shortcuts, then you ought to question why you're playing the game at all.

Azirophos · November 2005

Originally posted by Mandolin
Is it cheating? Probably. Does it matter? Probably not. A lot of players seem to forget that with MMO's, the joy is in the journey. Buying your high-level character, or the plat for your uber-gear, is like buying a book and reading only the last chapter. It misses the point entirely. The journey, or the grind if you prefer, IS the game. If you view it as such an awful chore that you resent others who have taken shortcuts, then you ought to question why you're playing the game at all.

Seconded. But I think it *does* matter that people purchase in-game stuff with RL cash. The problems that arise are multitude, like companies who "employ" farmers to level up characters, or amass as much wealth as they can. Macrominers/Farmers, who are camping spawn points 24/7. Broken economy that arises from such activities. All in all things that can ruin a game. There will be always a certain amount of people who want it the easy way, for what ever reason and usually games (through their size) can cope with them, but if it starts to get a multimillion business, then I fear there *will* be repercussions that are felt by all players (it's already the case in a few games).

The-Raven · November 2005

I suggest everyone simply reports the OP and requests this thread be locked and deleted. (I did)

It is simply an advertisment.

Enigma · November 2005

guys

whenever someone posts a thread like this but throws in direct web addys to these online currency sites, its just a clever way to advertise their sites.

Please be sure to report these when you find them.

Thanks

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