EQ isn't really a themepark game, I don't know where people get this idea from.
The game has no direction, it's skill and AA based, has no guides, has no real quest system, it's a free for all where you camp, the raids had very little structure and were often open world free for all mobs.
Anyway, that's another discussion, but I always assume that people who say EQ is a themepark really haven't played the game.
It's a completely static world with rides, ie static camps and bosses.
That is not what constitutes a theme park. A theme park is a quest hub based game, where the "content" is considered the quests and are hand fed to you by the devs...i.e. the content is all spoon fed and scripted. Sandbox games (really should have been referred to as blank canvas games) are where the player can choose their own path in the game and the content is at their discretion. Basically the content is how they interact with other players in the game, and thus is not static. Eve online is an example of this...the entire content is made by the player interactions in the economy, political system, and world.
Sandbox does not mean players "sculpt" the world...I know people got confused because they imagine that playing in a sandbox is about building things but that was not the original reference to "sandbox" gaming...again the term sandbox came about to mean the player makes their own way in the world, not hand held down a narrow railway defined and sculpted by devs (theme park quest hub driven games).
EQ isn't really a themepark game, I don't know where people get this idea from.
The game has no direction, it's skill and AA based, has no guides, has no real quest system, it's a free for all where you camp, the raids had very little structure and were often open world free for all mobs.
Anyway, that's another discussion, but I always assume that people who say EQ is a themepark really haven't played the game.
It's a completely static world with rides, ie static camps and bosses.
That is not what constitutes a theme park. A theme park is a quest hub based game, where the "content" is considered the quests and are hand fed to you by the devs...i.e. the content is all spoon fed and scripted. Sandbox games (really should have been referred to as blank canvas games) are where the player can choose their own path in the game and the content is at their discretion. Basically the content is how they interact with other players in the game, and thus is not static. Eve online is an example of this...the entire content is made by the player interactions in the economy, political system, and world.
Sandbox does not mean players "sculpt" the world...I know people got confused because they imagine that playing in a sandbox is about building things but that was not the original reference to "sandbox" gaming...again the term sandbox came about to mean the player makes their own way in the world, not hand held down a narrow railway defined and sculpted by devs (theme park quest hub driven games).
Sorry, but no. Guild Wars 2 is a themepark and it doesn't rely on quest hubs. Themeparks are exactly what the the name entails, a game filled with 'rides'.
Also, you are completely wrong about sandbox as well. If you were right, WoW would be a sandbox because a player could decide to level on one set of quests instead of another thus choosing 'their own path'. Also by your definition of why EVE is a sandbox, any game with open world PVP game would be a sandbox.
Originally posted by Baratuk I wonder if they are doing the PvP kinda like how SWG did it? As in you could get flagged if you were out doing things against the enemy faction....
That would be my preference. The TEF made some activities inherently dangerous, but did not close off the world to you as long as you didn't attack.
Why are people comparing this to EQ1 and EQ2? It will be nothing like it except the world and lore. Seems like the core fundamentals of the game are different. If you are expecting EQ1 or EQ2 you will be disappointed.
Just because EQ1 and EQ2 were one way doesn't mean EQN will like that. If they wanted to they an make an EQ RTS, it will still be EQ.
Originally posted by Baratuk I wonder if they are doing the PvP kinda like how SWG did it? As in you could get flagged if you were out doing things against the enemy faction....
That would be my preference. The TEF made some activities inherently dangerous, but did not close off the world to you as long as you didn't attack.
DAoC model, SWG model or contested zones. I dont care what they do as long as its well thought out and fun. No SWToR PvP please where it all seemed like an after thought. Illum was so badly put together.
EQ isn't really a themepark game, I don't know where people get this idea from.
The game has no direction, it's skill and AA based, has no guides, has no real quest system, it's a free for all where you camp, the raids had very little structure and were often open world free for all mobs.
Anyway, that's another discussion, but I always assume that people who say EQ is a themepark really haven't played the game.
It's a completely static world with rides, ie static camps and bosses.
That is not what constitutes a theme park. A theme park is a quest hub based game, where the "content" is considered the quests and are hand fed to you by the devs...i.e. the content is all spoon fed and scripted. Sandbox games (really should have been referred to as blank canvas games) are where the player can choose their own path in the game and the content is at their discretion. Basically the content is how they interact with other players in the game, and thus is not static. Eve online is an example of this...the entire content is made by the player interactions in the economy, political system, and world.
Sandbox does not mean players "sculpt" the world...I know people got confused because they imagine that playing in a sandbox is about building things but that was not the original reference to "sandbox" gaming...again the term sandbox came about to mean the player makes their own way in the world, not hand held down a narrow railway defined and sculpted by devs (theme park quest hub driven games).
Sorry, but no. Guild Wars 2 is a themepark and it doesn't rely on quest hubs. Themeparks are exactly what the the name entails, a game filled with 'rides'.
Also, you are completely wrong about sandbox as well. If you were right, WoW would be a sandbox because a player could decide to level on one set of quests instead of another thus choosing 'their own path'. Also by your definition of why EVE is a sandbox, any game with open world PVP game would be a sandbox.
GW2 is a themepark but it does rely on quest hubs in a way. It has those poor excuses for dynamic events and you are guided through them, or at least we were at launch. I haven't played it in months and it may have changed by now. Any form of a quest hub is a themepark and EQ had none of that from what I remember. Would I call it a sandbox, no, but ask 10 different gamers what the hell a "sandbox" really is and you will get 10 different definitions and yours is just one of many. That being said, you are not the definitive expert on sandbox and themepark definitions and neither is anyone else here so no point in beating the horse anymore. Mr. Ed has been beaten so much that he died and turned to glue a long time ago. My kids may have even used him in school for some art projects...
EQ isn't really a themepark game, I don't know where people get this idea from.
The game has no direction, it's skill and AA based, has no guides, has no real quest system, it's a free for all where you camp, the raids had very little structure and were often open world free for all mobs.
Anyway, that's another discussion, but I always assume that people who say EQ is a themepark really haven't played the game.
It's a completely static world with rides, ie static camps and bosses.
That is not what constitutes a theme park. A theme park is a quest hub based game, where the "content" is considered the quests and are hand fed to you by the devs...i.e. the content is all spoon fed and scripted. Sandbox games (really should have been referred to as blank canvas games) are where the player can choose their own path in the game and the content is at their discretion. Basically the content is how they interact with other players in the game, and thus is not static. Eve online is an example of this...the entire content is made by the player interactions in the economy, political system, and world.
Sandbox does not mean players "sculpt" the world...I know people got confused because they imagine that playing in a sandbox is about building things but that was not the original reference to "sandbox" gaming...again the term sandbox came about to mean the player makes their own way in the world, not hand held down a narrow railway defined and sculpted by devs (theme park quest hub driven games).
Sorry, but no. Guild Wars 2 is a themepark and it doesn't rely on quest hubs. Themeparks are exactly what the the name entails, a game filled with 'rides'.
Also, you are completely wrong about sandbox as well. If you were right, WoW would be a sandbox because a player could decide to level on one set of quests instead of another thus choosing 'their own path'. Also by your definition of why EVE is a sandbox, any game with open world PVP game would be a sandbox.
GW2 is a themepark but it does rely on quest hubs in a way. It has those poor excuses for dynamic events and you are guided through them, or at least we were at launch. I haven't played it in months and it may have changed by now. Any form of a quest hub is a themepark and EQ had none of that from what I remember. Would I call it a sandbox, no, but ask 10 different gamers what the hell a "sandbox" really is and you will get 10 different definitions and yours is just one of many. That being said, you are not the definitive expert on sandbox and themepark definitions and neither is anyone else here so no point in beating the horse anymore. Mr. Ed has been beaten so much that he died and turned to glue a long time ago. My kids may have even used him in school for some art projects...
Latronus is correct. Sandbox denotes an open world, where tasks are there but not required to advance the game. THE ACTUAL DEFINITION of an MMO Sandbox is a game that allows for roaming of the entire world from the start, allowing the player to play the game as they see fit. There is no mention of actually changing the game, unless you are speaking of DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMES (ie FPS, MMORTS, etc.). EQ is in fact a sandbox game, as up until PoP, the entire world was available to all levels from the first time you log in a new character. The fact that you think it has to denote the player being able to change the world in some dynamic way shows that you only understand what a sandbox is in real life. It's not, and you're wrong.
There wont be the open PvP everyone thinks. If anything there will be; A) PvP servers based on the EQ rule sets or; Optional open world PvP based on a flag system with some contested spots scattered about. Not everyone likes to PvP and most developers know open world PvP has the potential for griefers that will drive a large portion of players (and possible income) away from the game.
As for the "PvP is needed to promote server economy" - its a myth.
Smedley loves EVE though and I've read him singing its praises. I can certainly see him promoting a version of open pvp that generally conforms to what that game has, with a high/low/null security analogue based on zones and cities. In fact, from the gaga reaction from this site and Ten Ton Hammer, I feel almost certain that EQNext has taken some real risks when it comes to how they've done their PvP (but of course that's simply speculation). I agree that PvP isn't strictly needed for server economies, though.
As for Georgeson, I think people are reading too much on it. He could just as well be saying that not everything will be revealed on the 2nd because they're going to reveal more later rather than sooner.
See, I dont mind that sort of PvP system. I am used to it from AO where certain areas had levels of suppression gas making it either PvP, flagged PvP or No PvP. I just think people are reading way too much into his 'I Agree" reply. They are seeing Free For All 24/7 gank'em all PvP.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Smedley had praise for Hulkageddon which is a player ran event in EVE where players are given prizes for going into highsec and ganking mining ships. He gave it as an example of emergent gameplay.
There wont be the open PvP everyone thinks. If anything there will be; A) PvP servers based on the EQ rule sets or; Optional open world PvP based on a flag system with some contested spots scattered about. Not everyone likes to PvP and most developers know open world PvP has the potential for griefers that will drive a large portion of players (and possible income) away from the game.
As for the "PvP is needed to promote server economy" - its a myth.
Smedley loves EVE though and I've read him singing its praises. I can certainly see him promoting a version of open pvp that generally conforms to what that game has, with a high/low/null security analogue based on zones and cities. In fact, from the gaga reaction from this site and Ten Ton Hammer, I feel almost certain that EQNext has taken some real risks when it comes to how they've done their PvP (but of course that's simply speculation). I agree that PvP isn't strictly needed for server economies, though.
As for Georgeson, I think people are reading too much on it. He could just as well be saying that not everything will be revealed on the 2nd because they're going to reveal more later rather than sooner.
See, I dont mind that sort of PvP system. I am used to it from AO where certain areas had levels of suppression gas making it either PvP, flagged PvP or No PvP. I just think people are reading way too much into his 'I Agree" reply. They are seeing Free For All 24/7 gank'em all PvP.
PVP will likely be a limited afterthought in EQ Next. EQ is, and always has been (as it should) about PVE.
There are only so many ways you can do PvE though. I dont think PvP will be the focus, but I dont think limited afterthought is what it'll be though. I think it'll be more impactful than that. To me the more "so incredible/blown away" people are that got to see EQN, it means something has changed in the MMO market.. I dont even mean to join the hype train, but you dont hear how revolutionary ESO/Wildstar/etc are. I think EQN changed the game because TenTonHammer specifically has been very critical of Everquest/SOE, I doubt MMORPG or them were paid off to give a good review of what they saw. I dont think it'll be similar to EQ1/EQ2 at all except the Lore and the World. (That will be constantly changing)
Comments
That is not what constitutes a theme park. A theme park is a quest hub based game, where the "content" is considered the quests and are hand fed to you by the devs...i.e. the content is all spoon fed and scripted. Sandbox games (really should have been referred to as blank canvas games) are where the player can choose their own path in the game and the content is at their discretion. Basically the content is how they interact with other players in the game, and thus is not static. Eve online is an example of this...the entire content is made by the player interactions in the economy, political system, and world.
Sandbox does not mean players "sculpt" the world...I know people got confused because they imagine that playing in a sandbox is about building things but that was not the original reference to "sandbox" gaming...again the term sandbox came about to mean the player makes their own way in the world, not hand held down a narrow railway defined and sculpted by devs (theme park quest hub driven games).
Sorry, but no. Guild Wars 2 is a themepark and it doesn't rely on quest hubs. Themeparks are exactly what the the name entails, a game filled with 'rides'.
Also, you are completely wrong about sandbox as well. If you were right, WoW would be a sandbox because a player could decide to level on one set of quests instead of another thus choosing 'their own path'. Also by your definition of why EVE is a sandbox, any game with open world PVP game would be a sandbox.
That would be my preference. The TEF made some activities inherently dangerous, but did not close off the world to you as long as you didn't attack.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Why are people comparing this to EQ1 and EQ2? It will be nothing like it except the world and lore. Seems like the core fundamentals of the game are different. If you are expecting EQ1 or EQ2 you will be disappointed.
Just because EQ1 and EQ2 were one way doesn't mean EQN will like that. If they wanted to they an make an EQ RTS, it will still be EQ.
DAoC model, SWG model or contested zones. I dont care what they do as long as its well thought out and fun. No SWToR PvP please where it all seemed like an after thought. Illum was so badly put together.
GW2 is a themepark but it does rely on quest hubs in a way. It has those poor excuses for dynamic events and you are guided through them, or at least we were at launch. I haven't played it in months and it may have changed by now. Any form of a quest hub is a themepark and EQ had none of that from what I remember. Would I call it a sandbox, no, but ask 10 different gamers what the hell a "sandbox" really is and you will get 10 different definitions and yours is just one of many. That being said, you are not the definitive expert on sandbox and themepark definitions and neither is anyone else here so no point in beating the horse anymore. Mr. Ed has been beaten so much that he died and turned to glue a long time ago. My kids may have even used him in school for some art projects...
Latronus is correct. Sandbox denotes an open world, where tasks are there but not required to advance the game. THE ACTUAL DEFINITION of an MMO Sandbox is a game that allows for roaming of the entire world from the start, allowing the player to play the game as they see fit. There is no mention of actually changing the game, unless you are speaking of DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMES (ie FPS, MMORTS, etc.). EQ is in fact a sandbox game, as up until PoP, the entire world was available to all levels from the first time you log in a new character. The fact that you think it has to denote the player being able to change the world in some dynamic way shows that you only understand what a sandbox is in real life. It's not, and you're wrong.
See, I dont mind that sort of PvP system. I am used to it from AO where certain areas had levels of suppression gas making it either PvP, flagged PvP or No PvP. I just think people are reading way too much into his 'I Agree" reply. They are seeing Free For All 24/7 gank'em all PvP.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
There are only so many ways you can do PvE though. I dont think PvP will be the focus, but I dont think limited afterthought is what it'll be though. I think it'll be more impactful than that. To me the more "so incredible/blown away" people are that got to see EQN, it means something has changed in the MMO market.. I dont even mean to join the hype train, but you dont hear how revolutionary ESO/Wildstar/etc are. I think EQN changed the game because TenTonHammer specifically has been very critical of Everquest/SOE, I doubt MMORPG or them were paid off to give a good review of what they saw. I dont think it'll be similar to EQ1/EQ2 at all except the Lore and the World. (That will be constantly changing)