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Why are there no MMO's with 2-Player End Game?
RollieJoe
Member UncommonPosts: 451
I imagine I'm not alone among MMO players who prefer to primarily play with a wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, sister, brother, or best gaming buddy. But there don't seem to be any MMO's that cater to the 2-Player Coop fans.
Sure, in every MMO you can quest/level together with 1 other player, but as soon as you hit the level cap or reach "end-game" suddenly everything requires usually 5-20 people, both for PvE and PvP. WoW is the only game I know of that *used* to have a 2-player end-game in the form of 2v2 rated arena, but that was nerfed and broken long ago, so that now only the larger arena sizes count. And I don't know of any MMO that has had or has end-game 2 player PvE content.
This wouldn't be so bad if there were 2-player non-MMO RPG games to play, but there aren't. All the big fantasy RPG games like Skyrim, Dragonage, The Witcher, Kingdoms of Amalur, Fable, etc. are either strictly single player or only have very incomplete multiplayer.
Are there just not enough gamers who play with their significant others to matter? Or am I overlooking some game or games that have two player content at end-game? Thoughts and suggestions welcome.
Comments
while id love to see more options like that and not just strictly 5 / 10 / 20 man groups, i doubt they will bother to have 2 peeps end game content. WHy?, my wild guess is that the majority prefer both group content and solo content and 2-3 coop falls in a minority.
I usually play solo if my real life friends dont play the same game im into but i do prefer large group content in mmos. But like i said, if they offer more coop / group options i will definitelly welcome them.
EQ2 with mercs you can do 90% of the content, in other words just not the raids. Their newest x pac has dungeons built just for that reason, they re called advanced solo dungeons. You and a merc, or a duo can do them. My wife and I have plenty to do in that game at end game for sure.
Leveling up as a duo, you want to have the mercs though which requires the Age of Discovery x pac. You can enjoy every dungeon as you level up. Some of the mercs act odd on some boss fights, so outside a few of the many dungeons in that game, they can be completed with just you 2 and mercs.
Post requests like these are the reason MMO's being developed are choosing to cater to,,,, "casual" gamers and kids.. I just replied to a post regarding GW2 catering to casual gamers and kids with their classes having absolutely no diversity, among other issues. Everyone can do a bit of everything = bleh.. Now this post the OP wants 2 player end game content?? SMH.. Absolutely NO MMORPG's should have 2 player content unless it's grinding quests.. End game content is/was supposed to be incredibly difficult requiring a full raid and military tactics to win.. It's not meant for a duo to breeze through with one hand on the keyboard and the other eating popcorn! That's not what end game content is supposed to be! Go play this instead...
http://www.twoplayergames.org/Mario-War-2/738.html
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Theres some people out there that enjoy the MMO feel to a world, but doesn t have time to group up all the time. Theres some people out there that like to craft and make money off it, so they play MMOs to sell their stuff etc, but don t have time to group up. Theres some people out there that play really odd hours, so can t group up. Give it a rest, these people should be able to play an MMO as well.
WHile you do have a point i have to say that NO MMO has implemented this kind of tacticts to beat an end game raid. Not even WoW. All you have is a huge group where 2 - 3 tanks act as meat shields and 2 - 3 healers keep spamming heals to the tanks while everyone else nuke down the boss. If companies implement raid encounters that require that level of group tactics based on player skill instead of gear based tank and spank omgwtf123 rinse and repeat until millions of health points go down then yeah ill completely agree with you.
There's nothing stopping them from playing a MMO.
EQ2 just added three 2-player endgame encounters.. .took a couple of the game's top players like 20 hours of pulls to beat one of them. massively challenging stuff.
That aside though, yes, there are lots of people that want to play with 1 other person.. and lots of people that want to play in groups of 3.. or groups of 4. Content that scales to size tends to just not be that challenging. Building content for every possible combination is difficult and expensive.
I've led and been an officer in an casual raid guild in EQ2 for a few years now and at any given point we've had several - 1-5 husband/wife couples in the guild. Just because you're a couple and play together, doesn't mean you can't be part of a bigger team - whether group or raid - AS a couple.
Most of today's MMOs have plenty of content to be done solo/duo. But the whole idea is at some point to team up with (many) others to take on greater challenges.
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plusjuan
I normally play MMOs with my wife or with my son, and two-player endgame content would be great for those times when others in the guild aren't on or when we don't want to subject others to our latenight shenanigans.
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Oh, I agree, but theres nothing wrong with throwing them some content too. Raiders/ group players could still do this content while waiting on people to show up to raid or whatever.
I don't think I explained this well enough.. I've been playing MMO's since UO in 1997, followed by my all time favorite MMO, EQ, then probably 20 or so after that.. I have never played a MMORPG that implemented 2 player end game raid content, nor do I ever want to see that. Meaning, lets say a game just came out. And it takes 2 weeks to reach max level. And theres a huge end game raid encounter that requires five 5 man groups of 25 players total. In this raid, obviously the best epic gear will drop.. Then the company decides to create "doable" but very challenging 2 man raid encounters yielding the same end game raid loot as the 25 man raid... Would you say that's a great idea by the devs or a catering to casual gamer tactic?
Personally, If it's in the game, obviously I'll prefer to do a 2 man raid even If it takes longer to complete simply because all the loot would be mine and my partners, lol.. It's to easy and should never be implemented, period. But If it was in game, I would exploit it in a heartbeat... This is what I'm saying..
I understand with WoW for example, you can solo pretty much all of pre WOTLK raids, and even duo or 3 man WOTLK stuff, "I've done it myself" for the rare mounts and transmog epic items.. That's not what I mean. I think that can be fun and it is addicting to do. But I'm referring to new and fresh end game raiding. This should be for large raid parties, period..
And no, end game raiding is not just MT Tanking, Dps doing dmg, and healers healing. There's more to it than just that. It takes focus, timing, intelligence, and strategy to defeat the main bosses.. Even in WoW. But If you wait 5 months after many guilds have already completed the latest raid with a bunch of tips and raid encounter tacitcs posted on youtube which you can just watch and copy, then yea It's pretty easy..
Anyway, I'm for soloing, I do enjoy soloing dungeons which you shouldn't be able to solo, duo, and 3 man, but WoW and EQ2 is pretty much the only MMO's I've played which you can do this.
I just feel that more and more casual gamers are flocking to MMO's these days, which has destroyed the genre for me and people who were once considered hardcore MMO gamers.. I remember ALOT of people who played Everquest back in the late 90's early 2000's who bashed the game and cried over how "difficult" it was to do anything.. But you still had a good 500,000 people who loved the game due to it's time consuming and difficult leveling curve. Not to mention the dungeons being very difficult where 70+ people were needed to take down bosses. That's hardcore, and I personally miss that.. This is why I get a little annoyed when people write posts asking for two man end game raid content... That's a dumb idea, in my opinion.
Would a real life hunter request he only have one partner to be thrown in Grizzly bear arena with 10 Giant Grizzlies armed with only 2 Spears?? In reality how would that turn out? They'd get torn to shreds. The two hunters would rather have as many people as possible with them all armed with Spears. It would increase their chances of surviving the day..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Not every game needs to have the same system. If a given MMO appealed to your style of play: very difficult bosses that required 70+ people to take down, then there is nothing wrong with someone looking for an entirely different game that had challenging two player action. There's enough room in the MMO-space for games that appeal to all different tastes.
It's a dumb idea to ask for every MMO to have the same design pattern, in my opinion.
Unless I read it wrong, the OP was looking for two player end-game content, not two player raid content. To me, that's not the same thing, which is why I suggested DCUO as one possible answer. Maybe the OP meant raids, or I didn't comprehend.
Some players just don't like to group with a lot of people. I gave it a try. When I finally got into raiding, I was quickly turned off. There's too many fragile egos, crybabies, know-it-alls, and inconsiderate, unreliable whack-jobs to make it a fun experience. I prefer to team up with someone I know and trust to share some quality entertainment time. If a game offered me that, I'd play it. You can play the other games that offer your so-called "hardcore" content, and we'll all be happy. Pretty good compromise, I'd say.
TLDR
Snipers have spotters. Two man teams commonly up against much larger forces. That should be enough to nullify your wall of text.
Amen, thanks for saying what I was about to.
I felt like I got trolled after reading that guy's wall of absurdity.
Trolling is calling something stupid because you don't understand someone else's passion.
Trolling is acting like your passion is the only one that matters.
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Most games usually have group content that it is possible to complete with two people, the trouble is finding it, or recognising the possibility exists. Those who know about it often keep it quiet for extended periods of time to maximise their profit, but a quick trip to google can often find you something to do with a limited number of people. It tends to be something you create for yourself more than anything.
It is certainly a corner of the market largely overlooked by MMO developers, I suppose it never really crossed their mind that 2-3 man groups exist within an MMO environment, or they simply couldn't be bothered to add in another layer of content for smaller groups. You could argue that the market is saturated with co-op games and that adding the option to MMOs is futile, but that really isn't the case. A lot of people would prefer something they could do with a friend rather than struggling to form a coherent group from a bunch of randoms.
I simply love the idea of 2 player end game content. My wife and I are always together in the game we play and when it comes down to having to find other people, its when we get turned off.
I found my "niche" I think with dynamic events (GW2 - Rift) because it gives me the option of "on the fly" grouping without having to fight for rolls with loot or someone wanting to kick me out because I "don't know my character" or some crap. Here's the thing, time is precious to some here and though gaming is a big part of my life, it isnt my life. The main, MAIN reason I quit a game 9 times out of 10 is because once we get max level, you are stuck grouping with 5, 10, 25 people who have done the end game and raids CONSTANTLY and know them very well, where as I and my wife just simply can not put that much time into it all. When a game becomes "work", it no longer is fun and that is what every MMO out there now has..
On a side note, even if they do not make content specific for 2 player types, they can do smaller things that might help. For a small instance, AION, not the best game in the world but you got bonuses if you played with the same partner (married to them , but anyone could marry anyone). Things like that small addition really made a connection in a small scale, like it said it wanted people to bond or something (grasping here).
To put it short, I agree 100% fully and wholeheartedly with the OP.