Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change from one of being an ass hat the majority of the time to one that is as accommodating as the PvE'er then I'll stick with PvE.
See this is what the problem is. Not all PvP'ers are ass hats, in fact many of them are friendly, sociable and have great team work. Of course you'll get the ass hats who roll FOTM, or talk smack when they get 2v1 etc, but that's because it's competitive. Ever watch a sports game? Players talk smack to each other all the time because of the nature of the game.
I like how you put all PvE'ers on some sort of pedestal and they can do no wrong. In fact I've had more problems with PvE'ers in dungeons and raids then I've ever had with PvPers. I don't get kicked out of PvP because my "gear score" is 10 points off what the group leader thinks we need. If you want to generalize I can say that PvE players are more prone to being the ass hats. Don't believe me? Ask Tanks and Healers who get crapped on a lot for "screwing up" even when it's not their fault. Not to mention the raiding mentality of some guilds makes them think they are some sort of super secret elite special forces society.
Both styles of game play has their fair share of asshats. Don't be one by generalizing it.
I agree with the majority of your take...But I played sports my whole life...Multiple sports...I can tell you by personal experience that, generally, those who smack-talked were ass hats as well...It's not seen as "just part of the game" by players with class...And no one was more competitive than I was...It has nothing to do with the competition, or the competitive nature...Some folks are just idiots...It's in their blood...There are the jerks that do it and can't keep their mouths shut...while the majority of players, if they talk at all, are doing so in a positive nature to encourage their team...Talking smack in sports is just as annoying as these PvP ass hats or the PvE know-it-alls...There's really not much difference...Just saying...
It is true, there as just as many 'tards in pve as pvp. Only the pve ones generally don't talk smack.
Anyway for the most part I stay away from pvp anymore because: A) I'm getting old and no longer have the reflexes no longer have the patience/time to dedicate to learning skill sets, combo moves, various "allowed" cheats (like animation canceling), etc and C) generally despise the people that pvp attracts. Yes, not everyone who pvps is an ass; but it's easier to find asses in pvp than pve due to the limited numbers of people pvp'ing in most games. I like pvp, it can be fun; when it's skill based. If it's entirely dependent on gear (ie: player x has cash shop items and player b doesn't so player b loses by default) then, yeah I'm a carebear.
If there is PvP I like it to be meaning full, from the many MMOs I have played there are only two that stand out: EVE and Pirates of the Burning Sea.
I am not going to comment on EVE, because I think most people understand this. I will say one thing, PvP is balanced in such a way that everyone that can fly a ship is helpful in a battle.
Pirates of the Burning Sea is very interesting to me:
- World Reset: You are fighting for a nation and try to take over the Carabian. Once a nation has achieved victory the world is reset. You can only change nation during a reset, therefor you are really fighting for your nation, and the reset makes it so it doesn't become stale like 0.0 in eve.
- Taking over cities: Your nation can take over cities and appoint mayors, a mayor sets the tax rate on a city for nationals or foreigners. Which is a way to get more money, for crafters this means that they want their cities to be from their own nation.
- Everyone helps with taking over cities: The way to take over a city is by creating unrest by putting your boat near the harbour with a pvp flag on. You can return rest by patrolling your own harbour with pvp flag on, and winning fights. Or as a PVE player you can shoot down PVE boats in the harbor, there are dailies missions to create rest, crafters can make things to defend the city. and traders can give money for city defence.
- Dynamic Open PVP zones: unrest will cause open pvp zones, these zones are centred around a city, but can cover more than one city. In it you can fight anyone. If the wind is in the correct direction you can make a run for it.
You guys have no clue because your all stuck in gear grind mode... Fact is if your not pvping from alpha stage of the game then you might aswell not bother.. Its all about the best gear not tactics. Or skill fact remains that pvp is level based abd gear based. As soon as they put everyone on a level playing field. Your previous pvp will pick up and thrive.. No one like loiseing to another player with better gear all the time.. Also cash shops are killing your pvp too pay to win puts many off.. Its got nothing to do with mechanics.. Its all about the longedt playing players wanting to be best and being first to get all the best items to buff them into imortality. Pvpers sentric developers are ruining pvp.. Pvp designed by pvpers is always going to be a bad call.
The way I got into PvP was joining people I did PvE with when they were doing PvP. The first times I just followed the biggest group of people and attacked what they attacked. I didn't do great, but at least I was there hitting stuff as best as I could and my friends were totally fine with it because they used to be in that same situation themselves.
Nowadays I do my part and more.
I would never have gotten into PvP if it hadn't been for online friends, but the same goes with many other activities you do in life, its because of the people close to you that you get into new things.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
"It's okay to lose and to die in a game. I think many of us grew up playing competitive games with one another. If you were tagged or found or caught moving, you were out. Yeah, it sucked, but you survived to play another day with your friends. It's the same here. So-called carebears aren't afraid, nor are they cowardly, they just want to have a good time like everyone else, and sometimes that even includes PvP. But the hostility and the all too serious attitude some people take can be frustrating. Facing the rage of others for not knowing how to do something or to not be able to carry your weight immediately drives people away from participating. And it drives people who might otherwise enjoy some healthy competition from ever bothering. Mechanics like a lack of brackets don't help either, because when anyone can attack someone of any other level, it leads to griefing. But that's a discussion for another day." This sums up my PvP thoughts.
I would not mind PvPing, but the whole attitude and "seriousness" of the general PvP population keeps me away from even trying.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
As long you can't handle loss in any form in open PvP you never will be, this mean don't buy or join OPEN PvP games.
Flag system sucks don't belong in open PvP worlds.
Calling others carebears or pansy when they whine and cry is there own fault, why they even join or buy games that have open PvP(free for all(full loot or even permadeath) pls go play games that are safe for you and controlled instance with zero loss.
This discussion will never end so many buy games or join FFA full loot games and then starting to scream gankers/pk should leave them alone when pve or starting lol what a joke you all are if you still buy those games pls STAY AWAY.
I play DayZ every god damn day i see players enter the server i play on and RAGE in genral chat "Why you kill me im starter ive nothing or im friendly" IN CAPS wtf are they STUPID or what why they even buy ARMA 2 and dl DayZ in first place is BEYOND ME?
A nich community want FFA FULL LOOT or also with PERMADEATH and some games provide those condition for them, this means no bloody CAREBEAR have the right to even demand anything i say STFU and play or leave its after all FREE TO PLAY FULL LOOT PERMADEATH whats there to not understand i wonder???
Btw i keep killing in DayZ whiners or not i never response to anyone winning or losing im a BANDIT luckly the server admin agree its we say when someone CRY again in chat... "Welcome to DayZ - Have nice day"
My server i play lucky always packed we have heroes and bandits many rage but they keep comming i LMAO:P
Dont get so attached to your prescious pixels pls its only a game.
The 'HAHA I ran up next to you and then flagged' drawback of flagging world pvp systems turns me right off from games which include it. A fight should start when two flagged player see each other, not when the second player to flag decides is the best opportunity for him. If players had to make a choice each time they entered a zone, that'd be OK but the half-measures are no good for anyone.
Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change from one of being an ass hat the majority of the time to one that is as accommodating as the PvE'er then I'll stick with PvE.
thats why i sacrifice open world pvp goodness and play on pve too. 1 in 10 fights is a fair fight nowadays, the other 9 are one-shot-omgwtfrofl kids 50+ lvls higher than you being dicks.
First of all, please stop the preposterous parallels between real life and MMOs. In real life there are serious consequences for attacking other ppl (let alone killing them). Just because there's a beast somewhere in our DNA doesn't mean that we need to let it surface. That's the main difference between us and other creatures: we have set rules that keep us in a working society. On a different note there are no special spells in real life, no super powers, ppl don't walk buy in full armor suits and they don't auto heal...etc. So there's no point in comparing PvP with real life combat, come on!
Now, about MMOs: the problem with open PvP is enforcement. Ppl don't have a choice. Some players get a kick from attacking others - well guess what: others don't like being forced to fight whenever someone decides to pick them as target. As long as you have an option between PvE and PvP - so you'd go in only when you are up for a fight - it's ok. But being forced to do things you don't like - eventually paying that "entertainment" with your own money - it's not.
The thing a lot of ppl seem to forget is: MMOs are not about violence, warfare, and so on. They're about having fun. As long as your kind of fun is harmless to others (as in not getting entertained at the expense of ruining others' gaming experience).
First of all, please stop the preposterous parallels between real life and MMOs. In real life there are serious consequences for attacking other ppl (let alone killing them). Just because there's a beast somewhere in our DNA doesn't mean that we need to let it surface. That's the main difference between us and other creatures: we have set rules that keep us in a working society. On a different note there are no special spells in real life, no super powers, ppl don't walk buy in full armor suits and they don't auto heal...etc. So there's no point in comparing PvP with real life combat, come on!
Now, about MMOs: the problem with open PvP is enforcement. Ppl don't have a choice. Some players get a kick from attacking others - well guess what: others don't like being forced to fight whenever someone decides to pick them as target. As long as you have an option between PvE and PvP - so you'd go in only when you are up for a fight - it's ok. But being forced to do things you don't like - eventually paying that "entertainment" with your own money - it's not.
The thing a lot of ppl seem to forget is: MMOs are not about violence, warfare, and so on. They're about having fun. As long as your kind of fun is harmless to others (as in not getting entertained at the expense of ruining others' gaming experience).
Most open PvP games are not forced, and if im looking at this statement of yours, almost no games are forced pvp at all.
Majority of gamers known upfront what they are getting themselfs into when they buying that game or join a free one if they suddenly cry about pvp thats there own fault they should buy/join free game with no risk pure pve game then becouse its clearly they can't handle PvP.
When a game have pvp i should first ask other player can i hurt you?...won't you mind if i attack you...you could die you know:P
WTF....?
And fun can also be killing other players in game, fun is not for all the same everybody have its own defenition of whats fun for them.
Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change
Every guy screaming 'carebear' is driving away players by the dozens.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I have been a carebear from the beginning (EQ). Yet, I spent hundreds of hours in Alterac Valley in BC and dozens of hours in Wintergrasp in WOLK with my healing druid. I have tried other games pvp (SWTOR, GW2) but I do not get the same feel. One on one I have always been a complete noob (though I could survive for a long time with my druid).
I am not sure why I do not enjoy group pvp as much as WOW. It could be because the trend of the newer (since WOW) games, especially with action-combat is to discourage pvp healers. It could be that the group dynamics of non-WOW games are different (GW2 is just one zerg fighting another). It also could be that the WOW group pvp zones channeled combat so that healers were more effective.
Certainly part of my distaste for current group pvp are the other players. I had my moments with abusive players during Alterac Valley and Wintergrasp but NOTHING like I have seen since WOW. I do not understand pouring venom on someone who is trying to heal you.
Maybe that is the real problem. Carebears have become a swear word. Well, I am still proud of being a carebear. Now I just completely avoid pvp.
Originally posted by Rinna I don't like dueling other players or PVP, it's not fun to me at all. I like helping other players. I don't even enjoy healing in PVP. I don't understand why people like it.
I like healing other players as well. Alterac Valley in WOW during TBC was the highlight of my MMO playing time. I just loved it. My druid was influential in many of the Alliance wins because I healed so much (and so well?). Pvp players get a rush from killing other players but it is nothing like the good feeling I get when I save a lone player from three enemy because of my healing.
To this day I remember when the Horde had 10 players over the bridge threatening our base and just 4 of us held them off. I kept my three teammates and myself alive and competitive for almost 15 minutes until reinforcements alive. It was the most intense yet gratifying minutes of my MMO life. Not even healing in raids matched the rush of those frantic minutes in Alterac Valley.
Sadly,as I have avoided pvp for some time, that high is long gone.
First of all, please stop the preposterous parallels between real life and MMOs. In real life there are serious consequences for attacking other ppl (let alone killing them). Just because there's a beast somewhere in our DNA doesn't mean that we need to let it surface. That's the main difference between us and other creatures: we have set rules that keep us in a working society. On a different note there are no special spells in real life, no super powers, ppl don't walk buy in full armor suits and they don't auto heal...etc. So there's no point in comparing PvP with real life combat, come on!
Now, about MMOs: the problem with open PvP is enforcement. Ppl don't have a choice. Some players get a kick from attacking others - well guess what: others don't like being forced to fight whenever someone decides to pick them as target. As long as you have an option between PvE and PvP - so you'd go in only when you are up for a fight - it's ok. But being forced to do things you don't like - eventually paying that "entertainment" with your own money - it's not.
The thing a lot of ppl seem to forget is: MMOs are not about violence, warfare, and so on. They're about having fun. As long as your kind of fun is harmless to others (as in not getting entertained at the expense of ruining others' gaming experience).
Most open PvP games are not forced, and if im looking at this statement of yours, almost no games are forced pvp at all.
Majority of gamers known upfront what they are getting themselfs into when they buying that game or join a free one if they suddenly cry about pvp thats there own fault they should buy/join free game with no risk pure pve game then becouse its clearly they can't handle PvP.
When a game have pvp i should first ask other player can i hurt you?...won't you mind if i attack you...you could die you know:P
WTF....?
And fun can also be killing other players in game, fun is not for all the same everybody have its own defenition of whats fun for them.
All open PvP MMOs enfore PvP on players because there's no way to avoid it and there's no choice if you don't want to fight others. Enforcement, as in not having an on/off option. Open PvP games attract a certain type of crowd. If they want to kill each other on and on, that's perfectly fine. But it also keeps the casual players away.
The problem is with games that have mixed PvE / PvP content. Those games do have casual players that simply don't enjoy PvP that much (for whatever reason) - hence playing anything else but open PvP games. And in go the PvP players that don't like being "caged" and want more freedom (basically an open PvP world) - and yet somehow they're not pleased with a dedicated channel / server - they want to be able to attack anybody, anywhere. That doesn't fly.
There are many MMOS with an open PvP world or with very lax PvP rules, so there are enough options for the ppl that like that type of experience. Not many MMOs catering to the players that like exploring / questing more than killing other players, though. "Carebears" generally avoid open PvP MMOs. So if you do bump into them quite often, chances are that you are playing the wrong game for you
Who cares, if you want PVP then play on PVP servers and like wise if you want PVE or RP.
Problem is that PVPer are not happy with that, they want every mmo to be built around PVP first and foremost, they think PVE should come second to PVP.
If they didn't then they would have no problem with separate servers for each play style.
Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change from one of being an ass hat the majority of the time to one that is as accommodating as the PvE'er then I'll stick with PvE.
There are raiders who are just as good at being ass hats. Pve'er are not little peaceful angels. The worst types of people i have met in an mmo's have been while doing dungeons or raids.
Server 3: WORLD PVP - NO BATTLEGROUNDS or DEDICATED PANSY INSTANCES
---
Ultimately, I like World PvP with meaning... with proper sanctions that will protect lowbies from being crushed by max levelers etc.
Do we really need servertype 1?
Battlegrounds are voluntary anyways, your server having them have zero impact for pure PvE:ers. Now, if servertype 1 had permadeath or something else interesting like exceptionally hard but with better loot things would be interesting....
Originally posted by Adamai You guys have no clue because your all stuck in gear grind mode... Fact is if your not pvping from alpha stage of the game then you might aswell not bother.. Its all about the best gear not tactics. Or skill fact remains that pvp is level based abd gear based. As soon as they put everyone on a level playing field. Your previous pvp will pick up and thrive.. No one like loiseing to another player with better gear all the time.. Also cash shops are killing your pvp too pay to win puts many off.. Its got nothing to do with mechanics.. Its all about the longedt playing players wanting to be best and being first to get all the best items to buff them into imortality. Pvpers sentric developers are ruining pvp.. Pvp designed by pvpers is always going to be a bad call.
I agree, this is one good point, casual players simply don't have time to grind for gear, but those who sit home have nothing else to do are the once who get all the best gear...
I noticed this incompetible gear and abilities between low level and high level, simply that is the purpose of those who sit home jobless who depend on their perents or friends, who can grind for gear 24/7 knowing that not so many can reach high level so fast, this leads to ganking low level and all sort of things, just because they can, because game developers allow that to happen.
PvPers are the once who killed MMO's not pveers, and developers are at fault because they listened to those few.
I play games for fun. If they are not fun, why do I need to play. I do not like forced PvP as it makes the game hostile and not fun. I do not care for the 'perceived' sports-attitudes in PvP games. If you want sports go play basketball, football, etc.
People talk about flagged PvP like that is a perfect cur all but it is not. In Allods Online, they had this system and you could trun on someone else's flag easy. Also, If you attacked NPC's your flag was on. So, this game basically forced PvP on everyone without actually saying it was. It was a mediocre game and people left in droves.
I like GW1 and GW2 for the PvP - you know going in what it is. Open world PvP is a fail - period.
Originally posted by azzamasin Until the mentality of PvP'ers change from one of being an ass hat the majority of the time to one that is as accommodating as the PvE'er then I'll stick with PvE.
Until all you carebears stop being whiney.....Oh wait, I sound just like you.
Not all PvPers are ass hats. Many Just PvEers, (seen a raid guild) are just as ass hatty.
This mentality you present of ASSUMIG all "PvPers are ass hats" IS the problem, and it wont change the dynamic at all. The article was aimed at changing the us vs them attitude, yet here a PvEer is the one being hostile.
Don't forget most ofter people "rise" to meet your expectations, so, if you expect ass hats, you tend to get ass hats.
First of all, please stop the preposterous parallels between real life and MMOs. In real life there are serious consequences for attacking other ppl (let alone killing them). Just because there's a beast somewhere in our DNA doesn't mean that we need to let it surface. That's the main difference between us and other creatures: we have set rules that keep us in a working society. On a different note there are no special spells in real life, no super powers, ppl don't walk buy in full armor suits and they don't auto heal...etc. So there's no point in comparing PvP with real life combat, come on!
Now, about MMOs: the problem with open PvP is enforcement. Ppl don't have a choice. Some players get a kick from attacking others - well guess what: others don't like being forced to fight whenever someone decides to pick them as target. As long as you have an option between PvE and PvP - so you'd go in only when you are up for a fight - it's ok. But being forced to do things you don't like - eventually paying that "entertainment" with your own money - it's not.
The thing a lot of ppl seem to forget is: MMOs are not about violence, warfare, and so on. They're about having fun. As long as your kind of fun is harmless to others (as in not getting entertained at the expense of ruining others' gaming experience).
Most open PvP games are not forced, and if im looking at this statement of yours, almost no games are forced pvp at all.
Majority of gamers known upfront what they are getting themselfs into when they buying that game or join a free one if they suddenly cry about pvp thats there own fault they should buy/join free game with no risk pure pve game then becouse its clearly they can't handle PvP.
When a game have pvp i should first ask other player can i hurt you?...won't you mind if i attack you...you could die you know:P
WTF....?
And fun can also be killing other players in game, fun is not for all the same everybody have its own defenition of whats fun for them.
All open PvP MMOs enfore PvP on players because there's no way to avoid it and there's no choice if you don't want to fight others. Enforcement, as in not having an on/off option. Open PvP games attract a certain type of crowd. If they want to kill each other on and on, that's perfectly fine. But it also keeps the casual players away.
The problem is with games that have mixed PvE / PvP content. Those games do have casual players that simply don't enjoy PvP that much (for whatever reason) - hence playing anything else but open PvP games. And in go the PvP players that don't like being "caged" and want more freedom (basically an open PvP world) - and yet somehow they're not pleased with a dedicated channel / server - they want to be able to attack anybody, anywhere. That doesn't fly.
There are many MMOS with an open PvP world or with very lax PvP rules, so there are enough options for the ppl that like that type of experience. Not many MMOs catering to the players that like exploring / questing more than killing other players, though. "Carebears" generally avoid open PvP MMOs. So if you do bump into them quite often, chances are that you are playing the wrong game for you
No. The real problem is people who do not like pvp playing a game with pvp. Nothing is forced on you, you made a choice by selecting the game, it was not a supprise patch to add pvp. There is nothing wrong with a game with pve & pvp mixed, the problem is people crying about pvp when they play the game.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Who cares, if you want PVP then play on PVP servers and like wise if you want PVE or RP.
Problem is that PVPer are not happy with that, they want every mmo to be built around PVP first and foremost, they think PVE should come second to PVP.
If they didn't then they would have no problem with separate servers for each play style.
Not all demand every game need open world pvp i just want games suited for my nich needs thats all.
In PvP free for all seems to me logic dictate PvP first and PvE second.
Worked perfectly for Asheron's call 1&2 - darktide a full PvP server and rest could play on PvE with PvP zones but not forced on them.
Always, no matter who's talking, the other guy who is the 'real problem'.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
I agree with the majority of your take...But I played sports my whole life...Multiple sports...I can tell you by personal experience that, generally, those who smack-talked were ass hats as well...It's not seen as "just part of the game" by players with class...And no one was more competitive than I was...It has nothing to do with the competition, or the competitive nature...Some folks are just idiots...It's in their blood...There are the jerks that do it and can't keep their mouths shut...while the majority of players, if they talk at all, are doing so in a positive nature to encourage their team...Talking smack in sports is just as annoying as these PvP ass hats or the PvE know-it-alls...There's really not much difference...Just saying...
It is true, there as just as many 'tards in pve as pvp. Only the pve ones generally don't talk smack.
Anyway for the most part I stay away from pvp anymore because: A) I'm getting old and no longer have the reflexes
no longer have the patience/time to dedicate to learning skill sets, combo moves, various "allowed" cheats (like animation canceling), etc and C) generally despise the people that pvp attracts. Yes, not everyone who pvps is an ass; but it's easier to find asses in pvp than pve due to the limited numbers of people pvp'ing in most games. I like pvp, it can be fun; when it's skill based. If it's entirely dependent on gear (ie: player x has cash shop items and player b doesn't so player b loses by default) then, yeah I'm a carebear.
If there is PvP I like it to be meaning full, from the many MMOs I have played there are only two that stand out: EVE and Pirates of the Burning Sea.
I am not going to comment on EVE, because I think most people understand this. I will say one thing, PvP is balanced in such a way that everyone that can fly a ship is helpful in a battle.
Pirates of the Burning Sea is very interesting to me:
- World Reset: You are fighting for a nation and try to take over the Carabian. Once a nation has achieved victory the world is reset. You can only change nation during a reset, therefor you are really fighting for your nation, and the reset makes it so it doesn't become stale like 0.0 in eve.
- Taking over cities: Your nation can take over cities and appoint mayors, a mayor sets the tax rate on a city for nationals or foreigners. Which is a way to get more money, for crafters this means that they want their cities to be from their own nation.
- Everyone helps with taking over cities: The way to take over a city is by creating unrest by putting your boat near the harbour with a pvp flag on. You can return rest by patrolling your own harbour with pvp flag on, and winning fights. Or as a PVE player you can shoot down PVE boats in the harbor, there are dailies missions to create rest, crafters can make things to defend the city. and traders can give money for city defence.
- Dynamic Open PVP zones: unrest will cause open pvp zones, these zones are centred around a city, but can cover more than one city. In it you can fight anyone. If the wind is in the correct direction you can make a run for it.
I loved your article.
Cannot agree more with PvPer's taking it over board.
On the other hand far as PvE goes...There has been plenty of times in a PuG, I have been yelled/cussed at cause of blahblah. You get the idea.
Its not just PvPers that need to learn more patience. Its MMO players in general!
Not going to happen, ever.
MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!
The way I got into PvP was joining people I did PvE with when they were doing PvP. The first times I just followed the biggest group of people and attacked what they attacked. I didn't do great, but at least I was there hitting stuff as best as I could and my friends were totally fine with it because they used to be in that same situation themselves.
Nowadays I do my part and more.
I would never have gotten into PvP if it hadn't been for online friends, but the same goes with many other activities you do in life, its because of the people close to you that you get into new things.
"It's okay to lose and to die in a game. I think many of us grew up playing competitive games with one another. If you were tagged or found or caught moving, you were out. Yeah, it sucked, but you survived to play another day with your friends. It's the same here. So-called carebears aren't afraid, nor are they cowardly, they just want to have a good time like everyone else, and sometimes that even includes PvP. But the hostility and the all too serious attitude some people take can be frustrating. Facing the rage of others for not knowing how to do something or to not be able to carry your weight immediately drives people away from participating. And it drives people who might otherwise enjoy some healthy competition from ever bothering. Mechanics like a lack of brackets don't help either, because when anyone can attack someone of any other level, it leads to griefing. But that's a discussion for another day."
This sums up my PvP thoughts.
I would not mind PvPing, but the whole attitude and "seriousness" of the general PvP population keeps me away from even trying.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
As long you can't handle loss in any form in open PvP you never will be, this mean don't buy or join OPEN PvP games.
Flag system sucks don't belong in open PvP worlds.
Calling others carebears or pansy when they whine and cry is there own fault, why they even join or buy games that have open PvP(free for all(full loot or even permadeath) pls go play games that are safe for you and controlled instance with zero loss.
This discussion will never end so many buy games or join FFA full loot games and then starting to scream gankers/pk should leave them alone when pve or starting lol what a joke you all are if you still buy those games pls STAY AWAY.
I play DayZ every god damn day i see players enter the server i play on and RAGE in genral chat "Why you kill me im starter ive nothing or im friendly" IN CAPS wtf are they STUPID or what why they even buy ARMA 2 and dl DayZ in first place is BEYOND ME?
A nich community want FFA FULL LOOT or also with PERMADEATH and some games provide those condition for them, this means no bloody CAREBEAR have the right to even demand anything i say STFU and play or leave its after all FREE TO PLAY FULL LOOT PERMADEATH whats there to not understand i wonder???
Btw i keep killing in DayZ whiners or not i never response to anyone winning or losing im a BANDIT luckly the server admin agree its we say when someone CRY again in chat... "Welcome to DayZ - Have nice day"
My server i play lucky always packed we have heroes and bandits many rage but they keep comming i LMAO:P
Dont get so attached to your prescious pixels pls its only a game.
thats why i sacrifice open world pvp goodness and play on pve too. 1 in 10 fights is a fair fight nowadays, the other 9 are one-shot-omgwtfrofl kids 50+ lvls higher than you being dicks.
First of all, please stop the preposterous parallels between real life and MMOs. In real life there are serious consequences for attacking other ppl (let alone killing them). Just because there's a beast somewhere in our DNA doesn't mean that we need to let it surface. That's the main difference between us and other creatures: we have set rules that keep us in a working society. On a different note there are no special spells in real life, no super powers, ppl don't walk buy in full armor suits and they don't auto heal...etc. So there's no point in comparing PvP with real life combat, come on!
Now, about MMOs: the problem with open PvP is enforcement. Ppl don't have a choice. Some players get a kick from attacking others - well guess what: others don't like being forced to fight whenever someone decides to pick them as target. As long as you have an option between PvE and PvP - so you'd go in only when you are up for a fight - it's ok. But being forced to do things you don't like - eventually paying that "entertainment" with your own money - it's not.
The thing a lot of ppl seem to forget is: MMOs are not about violence, warfare, and so on. They're about having fun. As long as your kind of fun is harmless to others (as in not getting entertained at the expense of ruining others' gaming experience).
Most open PvP games are not forced, and if im looking at this statement of yours, almost no games are forced pvp at all.
Majority of gamers known upfront what they are getting themselfs into when they buying that game or join a free one if they suddenly cry about pvp thats there own fault they should buy/join free game with no risk pure pve game then becouse its clearly they can't handle PvP.
When a game have pvp i should first ask other player can i hurt you?...won't you mind if i attack you...you could die you know:P
WTF....?
And fun can also be killing other players in game, fun is not for all the same everybody have its own defenition of whats fun for them.
Every guy screaming 'carebear' is driving away players by the dozens.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I have been a carebear from the beginning (EQ). Yet, I spent hundreds of hours in Alterac Valley in BC and dozens of hours in Wintergrasp in WOLK with my healing druid. I have tried other games pvp (SWTOR, GW2) but I do not get the same feel. One on one I have always been a complete noob (though I could survive for a long time with my druid).
I am not sure why I do not enjoy group pvp as much as WOW. It could be because the trend of the newer (since WOW) games, especially with action-combat is to discourage pvp healers. It could be that the group dynamics of non-WOW games are different (GW2 is just one zerg fighting another). It also could be that the WOW group pvp zones channeled combat so that healers were more effective.
Certainly part of my distaste for current group pvp are the other players. I had my moments with abusive players during Alterac Valley and Wintergrasp but NOTHING like I have seen since WOW. I do not understand pouring venom on someone who is trying to heal you.
Maybe that is the real problem. Carebears have become a swear word. Well, I am still proud of being a carebear. Now I just completely avoid pvp.
I like healing other players as well. Alterac Valley in WOW during TBC was the highlight of my MMO playing time. I just loved it. My druid was influential in many of the Alliance wins because I healed so much (and so well?). Pvp players get a rush from killing other players but it is nothing like the good feeling I get when I save a lone player from three enemy because of my healing.
To this day I remember when the Horde had 10 players over the bridge threatening our base and just 4 of us held them off. I kept my three teammates and myself alive and competitive for almost 15 minutes until reinforcements alive. It was the most intense yet gratifying minutes of my MMO life. Not even healing in raids matched the rush of those frantic minutes in Alterac Valley.
Sadly,as I have avoided pvp for some time, that high is long gone.
All open PvP MMOs enfore PvP on players because there's no way to avoid it and there's no choice if you don't want to fight others. Enforcement, as in not having an on/off option. Open PvP games attract a certain type of crowd. If they want to kill each other on and on, that's perfectly fine. But it also keeps the casual players away.
The problem is with games that have mixed PvE / PvP content. Those games do have casual players that simply don't enjoy PvP that much (for whatever reason) - hence playing anything else but open PvP games. And in go the PvP players that don't like being "caged" and want more freedom (basically an open PvP world) - and yet somehow they're not pleased with a dedicated channel / server - they want to be able to attack anybody, anywhere. That doesn't fly.
There are many MMOS with an open PvP world or with very lax PvP rules, so there are enough options for the ppl that like that type of experience. Not many MMOs catering to the players that like exploring / questing more than killing other players, though. "Carebears" generally avoid open PvP MMOs. So if you do bump into them quite often, chances are that you are playing the wrong game for you
Who cares, if you want PVP then play on PVP servers and like wise if you want PVE or RP.
Problem is that PVPer are not happy with that, they want every mmo to be built around PVP first and foremost, they think PVE should come second to PVP.
If they didn't then they would have no problem with separate servers for each play style.
There are raiders who are just as good at being ass hats. Pve'er are not little peaceful angels. The worst types of people i have met in an mmo's have been while doing dungeons or raids.
Do we really need servertype 1?
Battlegrounds are voluntary anyways, your server having them have zero impact for pure PvE:ers. Now, if servertype 1 had permadeath or something else interesting like exceptionally hard but with better loot things would be interesting....
I agree, this is one good point, casual players simply don't have time to grind for gear, but those who sit home have nothing else to do are the once who get all the best gear...
I noticed this incompetible gear and abilities between low level and high level, simply that is the purpose of those who sit home jobless who depend on their perents or friends, who can grind for gear 24/7 knowing that not so many can reach high level so fast, this leads to ganking low level and all sort of things, just because they can, because game developers allow that to happen.
PvPers are the once who killed MMO's not pveers, and developers are at fault because they listened to those few.
I play games for fun. If they are not fun, why do I need to play. I do not like forced PvP as it makes the game hostile and not fun. I do not care for the 'perceived' sports-attitudes in PvP games. If you want sports go play basketball, football, etc.
People talk about flagged PvP like that is a perfect cur all but it is not. In Allods Online, they had this system and you could trun on someone else's flag easy. Also, If you attacked NPC's your flag was on. So, this game basically forced PvP on everyone without actually saying it was. It was a mediocre game and people left in droves.
I like GW1 and GW2 for the PvP - you know going in what it is. Open world PvP is a fail - period.
Until all you carebears stop being whiney.....Oh wait, I sound just like you.
Not all PvPers are ass hats. Many Just PvEers, (seen a raid guild) are just as ass hatty.
This mentality you present of ASSUMIG all "PvPers are ass hats" IS the problem, and it wont change the dynamic at all. The article was aimed at changing the us vs them attitude, yet here a PvEer is the one being hostile.
Don't forget most ofter people "rise" to meet your expectations, so, if you expect ass hats, you tend to get ass hats.
No. The real problem is people who do not like pvp playing a game with pvp. Nothing is forced on you, you made a choice by selecting the game, it was not a supprise patch to add pvp. There is nothing wrong with a game with pve & pvp mixed, the problem is people crying about pvp when they play the game.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Not all demand every game need open world pvp i just want games suited for my nich needs thats all.
In PvP free for all seems to me logic dictate PvP first and PvE second.
Worked perfectly for Asheron's call 1&2 - darktide a full PvP server and rest could play on PvE with PvP zones but not forced on them.
That we're all busybodies?
Always, no matter who's talking, the other guy who is the 'real problem'.Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.