Has nothing to do with me being right or wrong. It has everything to do with the fact that you made a comment that has old information to support it when nobody knows since the design was scrapped. I would ask why you're quoting Smedley about "gameplay" as you say when we are talking about art style. Please make up your mind.
.... I guess you don't remember stating that they scrapped the original design? I was just correcting you, is all.
I remember it well. Which was followed by you quoting Smedley from an article talking about gameplay. Which, btw, is NOT an art style. Art style , however, is a design element. Please stay on topic.
lol, you tried to refute my point about the art style by stating the design was scrapped. Please stay on topic? really? lol
I'm linking sources to back my argument, you have none.
The game design was scrapped in the source you linked. Thanks for proving my point.
So FFXIV scrapped their design and started fresh.....but note how the art didn't change one bit. Same avatars, same zones, same mobs, same everything - they didn't change their graphic style, they changed the game. That's his point which you are missing.
Not a good enough illustration? - head over to the SWG vet forums.
That doesnt mean EQN didnt change their art. This isnt FFXIV or SWG. That a good enough illustration?
Wow.
I presented you with the fact that two different games, have changed their games without changing their art. The other fact is that the company making EQN, SOE, has changed a game without changing their art.
You need to accept the possibility that SOE changed this game without changing their art.
You are just 'guessing' that the art style changed. That is a fact also.
So far you have not proved your 'guess' is better than mine.
And by the way, your sentence was not an 'illustration' of your point. Just a Nerd Burn.
Has nothing to do with me being right or wrong. It has everything to do with the fact that you made a comment that has old information to support it when nobody knows since the design was scrapped. I would ask why you're quoting Smedley about "gameplay" as you say when we are talking about art style. Please make up your mind.
.... I guess you don't remember stating that they scrapped the original design? I was just correcting you, is all.
I remember it well. Which was followed by you quoting Smedley from an article talking about gameplay. Which, btw, is NOT an art style. Art style , however, is a design element. Please stay on topic.
lol, you tried to refute my point about the art style by stating the design was scrapped. Please stay on topic? really? lol
I'm linking sources to back my argument, you have none.
The game design was scrapped in the source you linked. Thanks for proving my point.
So FFXIV scrapped their design and started fresh.....but note how the art didn't change one bit. Same avatars, same zones, same mobs, same everything - they didn't change their graphic style, they changed the game. That's his point which you are missing.
Not a good enough illustration? - head over to the SWG vet forums.
That doesnt mean EQN didnt change their art. This isnt FFXIV or SWG. That a good enough illustration?
Wow.
I presented you with the fact that two different games, one ALSO SOE have changed their games without changing their art.
You need to accept that possibility with EQN.
Otherwise you are just guessing.
So far you have not proved your 'guess' is better than mine.
Way to come into the blog extremely late. This all started when somebody posted "There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look." I never didnt expect that possibility. I simply said he couldnt say that with no evidence to support it. Otherwise HE is just guessing.
Has nothing to do with me being right or wrong. It has everything to do with the fact that you made a comment that has old information to support it when nobody knows since the design was scrapped. I would ask why you're quoting Smedley about "gameplay" as you say when we are talking about art style. Please make up your mind.
.... I guess you don't remember stating that they scrapped the original design? I was just correcting you, is all.
I remember it well. Which was followed by you quoting Smedley from an article talking about gameplay. Which, btw, is NOT an art style. Art style , however, is a design element. Please stay on topic.
lol, you tried to refute my point about the art style by stating the design was scrapped. Please stay on topic? really? lol
I'm linking sources to back my argument, you have none.
The game design was scrapped in the source you linked. Thanks for proving my point.
So FFXIV scrapped their design and started fresh.....but note how the art didn't change one bit. Same avatars, same zones, same mobs, same everything - they didn't change their graphic style, they changed the game. That's his point which you are missing.
Not a good enough illustration? - head over to the SWG vet forums.
That doesnt mean EQN didnt change their art. This isnt FFXIV or SWG. That a good enough illustration?
[mod edit]
[mod edit]
Why would they change an art style they had chosen from the beginning? Why waste time and resources changing the art style? The whole point of the change was to go from the average theme park MMO to a sandbox. "The fans need to realize that if you don't change the nature of what these games are, you're not going to change that core behavior. We want to make games that last more than 15 years."(Stylized graphics are known to age much better than realistic) You have to use some logic here.
I chose stylized. Reason being, it just ages much better than realistic does, in my opinion.
I'm not saying the game needs to look like a gosh darn cartoon, but more stylized than realistic just seems to age better.
I see this rebuttal often, and I simply disagree. Here's a response I just made on Reddit
This may have been true 10 years ago when we've had exponentially worse looking graphics, but in this generation we're hitting a plateau when it comes to real noticeable graphic enhancements. If SOE decides to make a realistic game now, it would still look quite good in 10 years - they also would have plenty opportunity to keep upgrading the engine and make it look better as time goes on.
I don't know anybody who says "man, WoW really looks so great, I think I'm gonna start playing it!" If anything, many people are put off by how silly it looks. If SOE is seriously looking for more numbers here, I think a dark realistic aesthetic would sell much better than a cartoony style which looks catered toward children.
I see stylized artwork as more of a gimmick to try to sell the game as being different - which I think is counterproductive in and of itself because literally almost every current fantasy MMO out there trying to go for that silly style.
Well to each their own, of course.
I mean if we were going for realistic, are we talking AoC/TSW-type stuff? If so, then I'd be down for it, because I think both of these games look terrific.
But seeing some of the other games that went for a more realistic approach and failed monumentally in my book, it has kind of hardened me for a more stylistic approach. I'm not saying that it needs to look like World of Warcraft or WildStar by any means, but I'm saying if they took a more stylized approach, it may actually fare better, longer. Just my thoughts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
It is neither stylized or realistic,i just want to see that the graphics had some effort put into it.I don't want to look at a game that shouts "You have 1 year to throw this together,so hurry up".
Idk how to actually explain it better but think of it like this.You should see some separation in the creatures parts and gear it wears.It should not look like one big texture pasted onto the model.You might see things like a lantern dangling from the mobs waist,or a bouncing backpack on it's back or maybe shoes that flip flop as he moves,all those little things ,show the developer was after some quality and not just to save time and cost of development.
As you notice not once did i mention HD graphics,i am talking about the effort that went into the work.I don't want to see a model with 2 vertices,a moving shoulder,moving knee and the rest moves like a block man.
We should look at Wildstar for example.Look how much effort and quality goes into their movies,then the actual game is like a totally different developer made it.I don't fall for that nice effort movies to sell the product,i want to buy the product because the actual game has that same effort.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Idk how to actually explain it better but think of it like this.You should see some separation in the creatures parts and gear it wears.It should not look like one big texture pasted onto the model.You might see things like a lantern dangling from the mobs waist,or a bouncing backpack on it's back or maybe shoes that flip flop as he moves,all those little things ,show the developer was after some quality and not just to save time and cost of development.
I pointed this out in the other thread, but for what its worth...
If you follow the trail from 2010 Fan Faire concept art of the Ogre & Orc you may see that the Ogre color image is very similar to what is now on official site. Orc sketch is very similar to the 3D model of the Orc that was floating around. The color image and the sketch are very similar, but not identical.
I think the concept art and official wallpaper are giving us a good clue as to what is coming Aug 2nd. That video that was floating around of the Orc and Human? was probably an early design and most likely very close to what we will be playing.
While I find the colorful images WoWish, the characters brought to life in the video did not give me the same feeling. The 2 characters seemed much more alive then anything in WoW due to the higher model quality and animations.
I think we will probably get something mixing EQ/EQ2 plus overall updated art/models as a lot of time has passed since they came out.
Personally, I'm hoping for a mix of realistic stylized design aka Heroic Fantasy as they are calling it.
I know for some of you people, this is "The savior" of sandboxish MMOs. Stylized will bring in more players because their machines can handle it.
But I sorta get the impression with the MANY comments made about the age / maturity of players who play WoW, that if EQN is done with stylized graphics (As so many of you refer to, "WoW graphics"), all these kids/insert derogatory comment here will join the game and it will be terrible.
But, if those that don't have their parents buy them a computer (since, you know, all those kids you refer to have jobs and buy computers anyways...) for this super realistic game, it will be a sandbox game to end all sandbox games!
I love Star Wars. As bad as TOR is, I enjoy it because it's star wars, bioware, the story, etc. But I would love for the game to have tons of people so that more content could be created easier. If they changed it to realistic graphics and it brought in tons of people, great! If they made it a sandbox (lol) and 2 million people joined, I'm in!
From a business standpoint and from a player who wants my game to have more and better content, one WOULD think you'd want as money people throwing money at the game as possible.
Or, you can keep telling yourself that having 100,000 players or less is the right move.
Since I have not seen anyone mention it. This is what Dave Georgeson said about Fan Faire 2010 concept arts and screens :
EQ Next is still being built within a black box. The *earliest* we are currently considering that we *might* reveal info is late this year. We're being very particular about what needs to be in the game before revealing it to folks, so until that stuff is ready, we won't be showing anything. (Screens you saw from a couple years ago are completely obsolete now and are not pertinent to the current game at all.)
Which implies that they indeed scrapped old art design.
Since I have not seen anyone mention it. This is what Dave Georgeson said about Fan Faire 2010 concept arts and screens :
EQ Next is still being built within a black box. The *earliest* we are currently considering that we *might* reveal info is late this year. We're being very particular about what needs to be in the game before revealing it to folks, so until that stuff is ready, we won't be showing anything. (Screens you saw from a couple years ago are completely obsolete now and are not pertinent to the current game at all.)
Which implies that they indeed scrapped old art design.
Since I have not seen anyone mention it. This is what Dave Georgeson said about Fan Faire 2010 concept arts and screens :
EQ Next is still being built within a black box. The *earliest* we are currently considering that we *might* reveal info is late this year. We're being very particular about what needs to be in the game before revealing it to folks, so until that stuff is ready, we won't be showing anything. (Screens you saw from a couple years ago are completely obsolete now and are not pertinent to the current game at all.)
Which implies that they indeed scrapped old art design.
No it doesn't mate, it implies that the locales in the concept art are most likely non-existant now. Not that the art style is so drastically different :P
"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!" - Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Since I have not seen anyone mention it. This is what Dave Georgeson said about Fan Faire 2010 concept arts and screens :
EQ Next is still being built within a black box. The *earliest* we are currently considering that we *might* reveal info is late this year. We're being very particular about what needs to be in the game before revealing it to folks, so until that stuff is ready, we won't be showing anything. (Screens you saw from a couple years ago are completely obsolete now and are not pertinent to the current game at all.)
Which implies that they indeed scrapped old art design.
No it doesn't mate, it implies that the locales in the concept art are most likely non-existant now. Not that the art style is so drastically different :P
Perhaps I have different perception of phrase completely obsolete. But it just seems to me that when concept art is completely obsolete then well everything about it is obsolete. Including artistic style. But my perception can be wrong of course
Originally posted by Iadien There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look.
It's really a shame because SOE has a great opportunity with the Forgelight engine to make a beautiful realistic game.
They argue that they want a new game that is different than the rest, but how exactly is a familiar cartoony aesthetic different from the recent slew of MMO's?
Recent slew? There are far more pseudo-realistic MMOs being launched. EQN will be the outlier to be perfectly honest.
And anime / cartoon styled games do age better. Pseudo-realistic graphics always look dated very quickly.
I guess it comes down to personal taste at any rate, I love the aesthetics of anime and detailed cartoons. So this is right up my alley. EQ1 always looked cartoony btw. And EQ2 models were just a mess at launch (they looked like Gumby, rather than an actual person) until they released the SOGA models which looked anime. So its not like the EQ franchise ever really looked pseudo-realistic.
Since I have not seen anyone mention it. This is what Dave Georgeson said about Fan Faire 2010 concept arts and screens :
EQ Next is still being built within a black box. The *earliest* we are currently considering that we *might* reveal info is late this year. We're being very particular about what needs to be in the game before revealing it to folks, so until that stuff is ready, we won't be showing anything. (Screens you saw from a couple years ago are completely obsolete now and are not pertinent to the current game at all.)
Which implies that they indeed scrapped old art design.
No it doesn't mate, it implies that the locales in the concept art are most likely non-existant now. Not that the art style is so drastically different :P
Perhaps I have different perception of phrase completely obsolete. But it just seems to me that when concept art is completely obsolete then well everything about it is obsolete. Including artistic style. But my perception can be wrong of course
Really?
Obsolete definition: No longer produced or used; out of date.
It doesn't necessarily mean that everything is thrown out, it could mean the architecture - such as layout, etc. are not pertinent to the present state of the game and were from a previous iteration of the design.
Hell he could even be commenting on the fact that previous design was based on a completely different game engine before Forgelight was being utilised.
"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!" - Sun Tzu, the Art of War
What is defined as "realistic" changes pretty much on a 6 monthly basis for PC users, as the gfx card manufacturers compete on that 6-monthly cycle, so in turn what a PC can output is an ante that is constantly being upped, therefore the gfx of today will look tired in 6 months when the next graphical feature set hits the light of day & the uber-nerds & hardware fetishists go drooling after their next ultra expensive upgrade, then the trickle down occurs & now the old realistic looks less realistic, given that MMO's don't generally upgrade their gfx engines every 6 months to keep up with the Joneses realistic gfx just age way way faster.
Also single-player games with realistic graphics represent an entirely different life-cycle, the bulk of them will be played once through & then shelved or traded in, MMO's go on for years (if successful), also the technical requirements of what the gfx engines are asked to portray is vastly different, a single player game gets nowhere near having to display the variety of models, variety of gear, variety of cosmetic differences as displayed in MMO's on the hundreds of characters which can congregate in areas of interest.
Even though I prefer "realistic" There are many reasons to go with a stylized approach. And just because a game is stylized doesn't mean it's "WoW" stylized.
Chronicles of Spellborn was stylized and was nowhere near WoW. Ryzom is stylized, the game "Journey" is stylized and it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.
edit: oh, and your avatar is stylized,.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And just because a game is stylized doesn't mean it's "WoW" stylized.
It said WoW in the OP post, can you read?
Can you? It also included Wildstar and 'etc'(know what this means?), so you targeting only WoW is what's 'sad'.
But only to be expected; 10 year habit, in some cases.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
Clearly ya' dont have any idea. No argument there.
Wow.
I presented you with the fact that two different games, have changed their games without changing their art. The other fact is that the company making EQN, SOE, has changed a game without changing their art.
You need to accept the possibility that SOE changed this game without changing their art.
You are just 'guessing' that the art style changed. That is a fact also.
So far you have not proved your 'guess' is better than mine.
And by the way, your sentence was not an 'illustration' of your point. Just a Nerd Burn.
Way to come into the blog extremely late. This all started when somebody posted "There will be a lot of unhappy people for those expecting a realistic look." I never didnt expect that possibility. I simply said he couldnt say that with no evidence to support it. Otherwise HE is just guessing.
Why would they change an art style they had chosen from the beginning? Why waste time and resources changing the art style? The whole point of the change was to go from the average theme park MMO to a sandbox. "The fans need to realize that if you don't change the nature of what these games are, you're not going to change that core behavior. We want to make games that last more than 15 years."(Stylized graphics are known to age much better than realistic) You have to use some logic here.
Well to each their own, of course.
I mean if we were going for realistic, are we talking AoC/TSW-type stuff? If so, then I'd be down for it, because I think both of these games look terrific.
But seeing some of the other games that went for a more realistic approach and failed monumentally in my book, it has kind of hardened me for a more stylistic approach. I'm not saying that it needs to look like World of Warcraft or WildStar by any means, but I'm saying if they took a more stylized approach, it may actually fare better, longer. Just my thoughts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
It is neither stylized or realistic,i just want to see that the graphics had some effort put into it.I don't want to look at a game that shouts "You have 1 year to throw this together,so hurry up".
Idk how to actually explain it better but think of it like this.You should see some separation in the creatures parts and gear it wears.It should not look like one big texture pasted onto the model.You might see things like a lantern dangling from the mobs waist,or a bouncing backpack on it's back or maybe shoes that flip flop as he moves,all those little things ,show the developer was after some quality and not just to save time and cost of development.
As you notice not once did i mention HD graphics,i am talking about the effort that went into the work.I don't want to see a model with 2 vertices,a moving shoulder,moving knee and the rest moves like a block man.
We should look at Wildstar for example.Look how much effort and quality goes into their movies,then the actual game is like a totally different developer made it.I don't fall for that nice effort movies to sell the product,i want to buy the product because the actual game has that same effort.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
That sounds pretty awesome
I pointed this out in the other thread, but for what its worth...
If you follow the trail from 2010 Fan Faire concept art of the Ogre & Orc you may see that the Ogre color image is very similar to what is now on official site. Orc sketch is very similar to the 3D model of the Orc that was floating around. The color image and the sketch are very similar, but not identical.
I think the concept art and official wallpaper are giving us a good clue as to what is coming Aug 2nd. That video that was floating around of the Orc and Human? was probably an early design and most likely very close to what we will be playing.
While I find the colorful images WoWish, the characters brought to life in the video did not give me the same feeling. The 2 characters seemed much more alive then anything in WoW due to the higher model quality and animations.
I think we will probably get something mixing EQ/EQ2 plus overall updated art/models as a lot of time has passed since they came out.
Personally, I'm hoping for a mix of realistic stylized design aka Heroic Fantasy as they are calling it.
I know for some of you people, this is "The savior" of sandboxish MMOs. Stylized will bring in more players because their machines can handle it.
But I sorta get the impression with the MANY comments made about the age / maturity of players who play WoW, that if EQN is done with stylized graphics (As so many of you refer to, "WoW graphics"), all these kids/insert derogatory comment here will join the game and it will be terrible.
But, if those that don't have their parents buy them a computer (since, you know, all those kids you refer to have jobs and buy computers anyways...) for this super realistic game, it will be a sandbox game to end all sandbox games!
I love Star Wars. As bad as TOR is, I enjoy it because it's star wars, bioware, the story, etc. But I would love for the game to have tons of people so that more content could be created easier. If they changed it to realistic graphics and it brought in tons of people, great! If they made it a sandbox (lol) and 2 million people joined, I'm in!
From a business standpoint and from a player who wants my game to have more and better content, one WOULD think you'd want as money people throwing money at the game as possible.
Or, you can keep telling yourself that having 100,000 players or less is the right move.
Since I have not seen anyone mention it. This is what Dave Georgeson said about Fan Faire 2010 concept arts and screens :
EQ Next is still being built within a black box. The *earliest* we are currently considering that we *might* reveal info is late this year. We're being very particular about what needs to be in the game before revealing it to folks, so until that stuff is ready, we won't be showing anything. (Screens you saw from a couple years ago are completely obsolete now and are not pertinent to the current game at all.)
Which implies that they indeed scrapped old art design.
Link : https://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/index.php?threads/eq2-and-eqnext.529092/page-2#post-5865513
(SmokeJumper is Dave Georgeson's nick).
He could just mean that those models/zones are not in the game
No it doesn't mate, it implies that the locales in the concept art are most likely non-existant now. Not that the art style is so drastically different :P
"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Support the Indie Developers - Kickstarter
Perhaps I have different perception of phrase completely obsolete. But it just seems to me that when concept art is completely obsolete then well everything about it is obsolete. Including artistic style. But my perception can be wrong of course
Recent slew? There are far more pseudo-realistic MMOs being launched. EQN will be the outlier to be perfectly honest.
And anime / cartoon styled games do age better. Pseudo-realistic graphics always look dated very quickly.
I guess it comes down to personal taste at any rate, I love the aesthetics of anime and detailed cartoons. So this is right up my alley. EQ1 always looked cartoony btw. And EQ2 models were just a mess at launch (they looked like Gumby, rather than an actual person) until they released the SOGA models which looked anime. So its not like the EQ franchise ever really looked pseudo-realistic.
Really?
Obsolete definition: No longer produced or used; out of date.
It doesn't necessarily mean that everything is thrown out, it could mean the architecture - such as layout, etc. are not pertinent to the present state of the game and were from a previous iteration of the design.
Hell he could even be commenting on the fact that previous design was based on a completely different game engine before Forgelight was being utilised.
"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Support the Indie Developers - Kickstarter
SWG, Eve, Planetside 2, EQN, Star Citizen
Also the devs are pretty much confirming all over twitter that the concept art is how the game will look:
"Artwork is gorgeous, but hoping female armor is only a sample! Full coverage is an option, yes?"
"We show two of our intended options in the painting. You can count on there being more. :-)"
https://twitter.com/terryjmichaels/status/354844094733885442
I chose Sylized.
Reason: Couldn't make up my mind and just wanted to see the results.
Personally I voted for stylized.
What is defined as "realistic" changes pretty much on a 6 monthly basis for PC users, as the gfx card manufacturers compete on that 6-monthly cycle, so in turn what a PC can output is an ante that is constantly being upped, therefore the gfx of today will look tired in 6 months when the next graphical feature set hits the light of day & the uber-nerds & hardware fetishists go drooling after their next ultra expensive upgrade, then the trickle down occurs & now the old realistic looks less realistic, given that MMO's don't generally upgrade their gfx engines every 6 months to keep up with the Joneses realistic gfx just age way way faster.
Also single-player games with realistic graphics represent an entirely different life-cycle, the bulk of them will be played once through & then shelved or traded in, MMO's go on for years (if successful), also the technical requirements of what the gfx engines are asked to portray is vastly different, a single player game gets nowhere near having to display the variety of models, variety of gear, variety of cosmetic differences as displayed in MMO's on the hundreds of characters which can congregate in areas of interest.
Can't believe 40% voted for WoW.
How sad.
Sad? that's a ridiculous statement.
Even though I prefer "realistic" There are many reasons to go with a stylized approach. And just because a game is stylized doesn't mean it's "WoW" stylized.
Chronicles of Spellborn was stylized and was nowhere near WoW. Ryzom is stylized, the game "Journey" is stylized and it's one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.
edit: oh, and your avatar is stylized,.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'll play it if I like it, aesthetic aside. If I am enjoying my stay there then I'll be happy.
As long as the world is great to look, the back of my avatar's is of no consequence to me, or his ass when running.
It said WoW in the OP post, can you read?
Can you? It also included Wildstar and 'etc'(know what this means?), so you targeting only WoW is what's 'sad'.
But only to be expected; 10 year habit, in some cases.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.