Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
POLL: should all races be allowed to play every classes?
Gholos
Member Posts: 209
I have make a similar post before, but i think i was misunderstand (probably for my bad english), so i try to explain more clearly:
do you think that all races can do all classes or you prefer some restrictions as EQ1?
I think that some races should have limitations due their ability scores or alligment, so for example i think that an ogre or troll, that are supposed to be stupid and clumsy shouldnt be allowed to do a wizard , monk or thief, an high elf that is supposed to be a good race shouldnt be allowed to play a necromancer or a shadow knight (i know that we dont know what classes will be in EQN so these are only example).
I personaly like the restrictions of EQ1, the only thing that i disapprove of EQ was that a troll can join a group with an high elf or a shadow knight play together with a paladin and so on.
I vote: NO
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
Comments
Voting no too. I do want a choice of gender for every class though.
Good question btw.
I voted no because I think it adds some flavor to the fluff of game races if some aren't allowed to play certain classes (e.g. a primitive race not being allowed to play a class that uses guns or engineering, etc.)
I do agree that gender locking classes is annoying though and is usually the result of developer laziness. Entire races of one gender annoy me as well unless a really good explanation is provided by the fluff (think Asari from Mass Effect).
Yeah, some classes, like Paladin do not fit evil races too much, I mean you could argue exceptions and such, but without hearing the argument and off the top of my head...no.
The one argument I could see for allowing it, is if they are worried about something like faction based pvp, if it is server or whatever the rule set, I know limiting can cause problems for that....But usually they just use one race and allow it to fix those problems (just limits player options for certain classes of a faction).
Chances are that you're playing some kind of character that is unique and more powerful in the world than "the average citizen", even if you're not the greatest hero of the world, by definition, you're somehow special.
So for, there is always enough reason for you to have transcended the limitations of your race.
Of course, I generally prefer a more sandbox game and more sandbox approach. I don't want to be pigeonholed into having a race/class/skill combination. i want to find my own path in the world. I want a world where a troll CAN become a mage.
I would be ok with certain combinations being harder to achieve so as to discourage them. But i'd want those combination being just as viable power-wise.
For example, when i started EQ2, i wanted to be a Ratonga, but to be from Qeynos. This was very difficult to achieve in the early days of EQ2, so it was extremely rare. I did it though and had a cool and unique character with a unique backstory. I was the only rat in my good-aligned RP guild. At the same time, once i passed the "difficult" part of getting there, i was able to be just as good as anyone else at the class i chose. I think we know enough from the real world that with enough effort and work, one can be as good at a job as anyone else.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I voted yes, because I can't vote for 'I don't want classes'. I know a lot of eq vets want holy trinity classes. That would just turn EQNext into another tank/spank themepark, so no thanks.
That's not an issue in the case of Everquest since it's SOE's proprietary world.
SOE designs Lore around the gameplay they create. So if they design a game where humans can be evil, then according to the lore, humans can be evil. There no 3rd party lore for SOE to be aligning to like with LoTR or Star Wars. Whatever SOE decides to do, THAT is the lore.
Not to mention that in general it makes for extremely bad and hard to immerse yourself in lore where every single person of a certain race is automaticaly defined to be of a certain moral standing and/or profession.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Voted NO. Please stick to the lore - this IP has such a rich and in-depth lore; even if this is a "rebooted" version of EQ, I seriously hope they hold true to the lore.
Having a Troll, Dark Elf, or Ogre Paladin just makes no sense. Having a High Elf, Wood Elf, or Halfling Shadow Knight makes no sense. Neither fit the racial make-up. I liked the racial differences in EQ1. They made sense.
I agree about the good/evil races grouping together. I guess one could roleplay having the Paladin and Shadow Knight having lengthy religious discussions
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Making sense? they are imaginary races and what is more they are sentient beings ergo you could have a fallen wood elf shadow knight and a troll paladin, it shouldn't be easy to get there if the races are of a different alignment but it should be possible.
Also grouping races on the principle of good or evil is... dumb? It would assume all races are equally good or equally evil and no one is in the middle ground which doesn't make sense, the world isn't black and white, humans and human-like creatures rarely get along in their own race so why would multiple races get along based on alignments?
I want the holy trinity but i dont think that this necessary imply a themepark approach. I want the trinity back because i think that is the only way to have a good PvE with a coordination and collaboration between players. I have tried GW2 that havent trinity, and was a failure.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
A high elf that wants to be an SK could only be so if aligned with an evil god. Same for a troll who wants to be a Paladin. As far as functional reasons like trolls being Wizards it's a draw, practicality wise it makes sense but then a whole lot of other practicality doors begin to open...
I don't think all race/class combinations should be possible at creation. I think if you want to be an Ogre Paladin you need to earn it do it makes sense. I think allowing these seperate avenues of growth would add replayablity especially in light of the mention of "multi-classing".
Good subject OP!
Of course, it is SOE's world and they can (and will) do whatever they wish with it.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
No humanity within the races means you cannot relate to them easily which in turn affects immersion... no one is absolutely good and no one's absolutely evil, we're all the choices we choose to make and that would make an MMO worth playing. Tell me it wouldn't be interesting to play an Outcast Troll who chose to align with a good god (damn that sounds weird) and thus was exiled by his own race and the other good aligned races don't readily trust you but they accept you somewhat. The potential for extraordinary stories is there with more grey areas and less black vs white as long as the paths aren't easy... you could even open up unique questlines to that mix of character/profession.
To end I will state this much: A world where absolute good battles absolute evil, where the lines are clearly drawn, where enemies remain enemies and where nothing ever changes is a dead world. We need a world that has no absolute good or absolute evil, not one line but multiple, no fixed enemies and a fluid dynamic ( why couldn't a evil race work with a good race if there is a greater threat to both?).
It makes even less sense that over thousands and thousand of years every single elf and halfling born were morally good and upstanding citizens. Especially when these races all mingle with each other. A halfling spends hundreds of years fighting alongside a wizard or a shadowknight and yet there is no chance that they would be interested in that kind of power? or vice versa?
Certainly it shouldn't be common. But impossible? That's just silly.
Many of the greatest characters and stories in fantasy are about evil people being redeemed and good people being seduced by evil. It's as much at the core of the genre as is the battle of good vs evil itself. To leave this possibility out of the game would be just tragic imo. Especially if you're trying to build a more sandbox game that's closer to a virtual world than just a themepark.
Also, last i checked lore-wise, Norrath was full of Halfling SKs and Troll Paladins. I'm grouped with a few right as i type this. (break in raid atm).
Of course that is just "current" lore and there have been periods in norrathian history when this wasn't possible. From the sound of it, EQN is going to be a separate world that doesn't linearly follow any of the past EQ games. So what lore it brings remains to be seen.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
It makes sense in EQ. The whole world of EQ revolves around good and evil.
Paladins are followers of Mithaniel Marr, a God from the plane of Valor. Gods get their power from the planes and so do you through your diety. The spells of paladins all reference the God and the Plane. Valor of Marr is a paladin spell for example, referencing the plane of Valor and Mithaniel Marr.
Paladins are considered good...because they actually follow Gods that value Honor. See Halls of Honor in EQ.
Paladins fight undead and use holy light, they're highly religious figures who value honor and righteousness.
Shadowknights on the other hand follow Gods like Bertox and Innoruuk, the Prince of Hate. Innoruuk does not believe in kindness, he believes in hate and destruction. In fact many of the hate spells of SK refer to Innoruuk.
It should make sense in the lore, whatever it is.
I generally prefer restrictions rather than not, because it makes the races a bit more interesting to me. But, I do think that the game itself can be allowed to have some exceptions among NPC's, just not allow players because of the risk of it being too commonplace.
Many, many fantasy worlds are all about good vs evil. The Lord of the Rings is one good example with Star Wars being another. Good vs Evil can, and does work. The worlds are far from dead.
Personally, I like my "gray area" games in my single player game experience where my decisions actually matter in the game world.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I voted no.
I think there should be class restrictions based on race, unless maybe there's a quest-line, that say allows a Gnome to gain favour with Tunare/Karana and become a druid, for instance. Otherwise I feel it cheapens the experience if every race can become every class right away (dark elf paladins anyone?).
You can find many sections in Everquest about good versus evil in the lore too.
For example:
"Who defines the lines of being right or wrong? When a good man is under pressure he sometimes makes bad choices. Should this man not be forgiven or should he be judged to be wrong for the rest of his life? It's just not right.
Grenic lost sight of our objective for a second and killed innocent people rather than making them prisoners. Mithaniel Marr banished him from the Halls of Honor."
It's part of the access quest to the Halls of Honor. Honor and righteousness are a defining trait of paladins in EQ, their whole class is about honor.
If you let a Dark Elf and follower of Innoruuk become a Paladin for example, the whole lore in EQ would stop making sense.
It's not just race, more importantly, it's deity. EQ is actually a highly religious game.
My gaming blog
Yes, to be more readily empathized with they should have some human traits (jealousy, greed, avarice, kindness, caring, etc), all fantasy fiction does this unless it is the sub standard type which wants to dehumanize its villains.
In the Lord of the Rings you have good (the races of Middle Earth) vs evil (Sauron) but were all the races aligned against Sauron that good? The elves by what I remember were reluctant to help and seemed to be more self interested, the dwarfs pretty much doomed their own race by continually unleashing ancient evils such as the Balrog and were generally very greedy, the halflings were jolly and good natured but they were very reluctant to mobilize vs Sauron and don't even get me started on humans whom kept falling to their need for power and/or eternal life and on the opposite end we have characters like Smeagol who are tragic, not evil not good but tragic.
If this game turns out to be a sandbox then grey areas will allow more tools for people to interact.
@Waterlily: I was not referring to classes being changed but individuals from non-traditional races ( evil ones ) proving that they are actually worthy of being that class (Troll Paladin).