I love how people think two seconds for attacks and spells (not abilities, not non-cooldown skills, not movement) is unbareable.
I also want to point out how ridiculous this statement is. Because it's not just 2 seconds... it's 2 seconds almost every 2 seconds. That's nearly half the pace of every other major tab>target game. If you can't comprehend how a 100% slowdown in pace over the standard tab>target game might not be received favorably by people that have been playing games with 1-1.5 second GCD games for the last decade, you're hopelessly lost.
SWTOR was criticized for it's combat pacing and it's 50% faster than FF XIV.
What does 2 seconds almost every 2 seconds mean? I don't even know what you are talking about now, are you talking about casting spells? Because that is not true, the spell cool down is incurred as soon as you start casting not onced it finishes.
It means that when you say "it's just 2 seconds", your being disingenuous by using a small timeframe when the reality is that the combat pacing is slowed anywhere from 50-100% over traditional tab target MMOs. It's a common marketing ploy, you're trying to put a spin to minimalize the reality that it is a drastically slower than normal pacing mechanic.
SWTOR had bad combat. It was extremely simple, and easy to master. I don't care if it had 1 second global cooldowns or 10, I didn't need any time to know what I was going to use next. FFXIV is different, I'm sorry if you don't see that. But ithat's just the way it is.
Not the point.
Keep convincing yourself that you are a ninja in training with your "action combat" or whatever in games with limited hotbars and simple systems. Ooooh you press click click click or 1, 1, 1, sooooooo fast that looks exhilarating. What part of it do you think takes more skill painting the gaming equivalant of the side of a barn with a reticule to "aim", or the durability of your mouse as you pound away furiously. Let's put it in perspective I've played the games you have. Here are my thoughts on them:
Wut? You just keep rambling about action combat. You keep bringing it up, while the only thing I've been talking about is how slow the pacing is compared to other tab>target games.
Also, any Tera player that would read that would think you're a blathering idiot, you obviously have no idea how that game actually functions at the higher levels.
WoW'c combat is a balance mess.
Rift's combat is a macro simplified snoozefest.
SWTOR is simplistic as it relies on a limited prioity rotation for most of its combat classes, much of endgame is spent spamming a few abilities.
GW2 has no trinity and is a complete mess of a PvE grouping experience.
Vanguard was never balanced right, and suffered from many issues with macro simplification of certain classes, regressed rotations, but still was better than most of the above. Many good ideas like the weakness system were underutilized due to engine problems.
FFXI did it right with skill chains, but suffered from balance and ultimately neglected the best part about it (the skill chains) in favor of pathetically simple spamming.
EQ2 underutilized sympathetic actions, boring and often short rotations, auto attack weaving is ridiculous for certain melee DD (that is not my idea of fun timing skills with auto attack)
None of this has anything to do with FFXIV's combat pacing. Are you trying to justify it utilizing a flawed system because other games have flaws?
What FFXIV has to make it stand out as exceptional are these three things that all these other games don't offer together:
a variety of jobs I can play without simplistic rotational combat to keep me from mastering it early and having nowhere to go
a variety of synergetic utility at my group's disposal from nearly every role, including a focus on abilities that are group based (limit breaks, skill chains, weakness systems etc.)
a balanced job roster that doesn't see any job (so far) out of favor though even if it did at least it has the ability to switch jobs. I think they will keep a good focus on balance though.
Synergies are common in most MMOs, so are balanced (in PvE atleast) and desired jobs/professions/classes. Simplistic complex rotations vary from game to game, class to class, and patch to patch. I doubt FFXIV will be any different.
People look for different things, you look for the fastest button mashers maybe. But this is what I want from my MMORPG: good grouping. We have it in FFXIV, it has been lacking in MMORPG's for far too long. Call me when you think you have an MMORPG in mind with better group mechanics because I have looked. Maybe it is "too slow for you", but your games don't exactly meet my standards either or I would be playing them. Hell most of them are cash shop games now, I not only wouldn't buy their pixels but I'd evidently rather play nothing at all than continue to play them for FREE.
I've played various games at the highest levels. WoW, Tera, AoC, and even LOTRO (which has crap combat). Fastest button smasher isn't what I value, I value a game that mixes skill (both twitch and situational) with traditional MMO elements and a FUN combat system. FXIV fails miserably at the fun part, which is the most important part of that whole equation. It's slow, tedious, and almost completely devoid of anything but situational skill.
You're also arguing from a position of ignorance and pretending you know something of merit. You have absolutely zero idea how FFXIVs class mechanics will play out at endgame. You're theorycrafting your ass off and trying to pass it as gospel.
I feel bad, I take flyers from people on the street and stand and listen to them drone on about their band or a product I would never buy just to be polite, but here are these people trying to give me a game for free I can play with thousands of people over the internet that they (and you) say are fun and I'm just saying to them "no thanks".
No MMOs are free. If you are familiar with the history of razor blade companies, you'd understand that some companies just choose to give you the razor for free so you'll buy the blades. It's just marketing.
There are a variety of stuns available in this game spread out across jobs. Paladin, Warrior,Monk, White Mage, and Dragoon all have stuns. They all work differently, with limitations and advantages.
For example Monk's Steel Peak ignores the Skill cooldown, so they are generally able to react the fastest. Paladin requires a block in order to stun, however it does not suffer from the same immunity problems other jobs run into if they spam their stun too often.
Just posting to correct the highlighted, Tanks have Shield Bash on a cooldown, which is the stun you are mentioning.
The one requiring a Block to be used is Shield Swipe, which inflicts Pacification on the target, making it peaceful for a few seconds.
Maybe I can offer another perspective on combat in MMOs, coming from my own experience.
I am turning 32 in August. The game will release 2 days before my birthday.
Having gone through that, I've come to the realization that action combat is too draining for me at this stage of my life. I don't enjoy it in long sessions. It makes my fingers tired and my brain numb.
I'm 47 at the end of this month and whole-heartedly agree with this.
I'm in ZizouX's age group, and while I'm not feeling any of these symptoms yet ... should I be concerned?
Nah, I'm 31 and to be honest he sounds a bit ridiculous. It may take me a few more days to heal up from a wound or recover from an all night bender than it used to, but I'm hardly so decrepit that playing a videogame is going to cause me physical discomfort. I can understand someone at 47 maybe, but not 32.
Sounds like someone needs to put down the video-games and go for a bike ride or something. That's not a healthy sign at that age.
You missed the point completely. The older you get, the more you enjoy things that are not rushed. It is very mentally draining and completely unfulfilling to be spamming the keyboard with twitch bases/action combat. Whereas before, I could spend 4 hours a night raiding, with that type of gameplay/combat.... i prefer not to anymore for a variety of reasons.
Having short timers on abilities to use during the global cooldown, while the cooldown itself is only 1.5 seconds really is just a spamfest. Though wow does this best, I've move on from that hectic type of gameplay.
When I come home from work... i want to relax... action combat, in long sessions is more exhausting than traditional combat. That is why I think some people don't understand why someone can prefer one or the other. Die hard action combat fans cannot fathom why a person would prefer the slower traditional combat, and God forbid, would actually enjoy it. They must be lying, there's no way ANYONE could possibly enjoy FFXIV's combat..... /rolls eyes.....
If you are picking up XIV for the combat you will be sorely disappointed. The only worse combat system is TSW's. Luckily I dont play FF for the combat, but it will turn hordes of players off.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing. PS3
You missed the point completely. The older you get, the more you enjoy things that are not rushed. It is very mentally draining and completely unfulfilling to be spamming the keyboard with twitch bases/action combat.
Well, you could always stop spamming. Since the abilities in action combat MMOs are governed by animation times, you're not gaining anything by spamming buttons anyway. I know both Tera and GW2 have class/weapon combinations that have longer skill animations, some even getting close to XIVs GCD. Seems perfectly valid for us oldtimers.
Originally posted by Ehllfhire If you are picking up XIV for the combat you will be sorely disappointed. The only worse combat system is TSW's. Luckily I dont play FF for the combat, but it will turn hordes of players off.
I play for GROUP play, and that is what this post is about.
FFXIV has the best group combat system I have seen in years (maybe ever). People who actually like group play will not be disappointed. But maybe people who could stomach GW2's complete lack of it, and still praise its "awesome combat" will be turned off.
To me that's a good thing, if people can't appreciate good group play then they are not looking for the same things in an RPG as me. You obviously aren't, i have no idea why you not only continue to follow this game but want them to give you a lifetime sub like you are some blind fanatic. Seriously what does appeal to you about this game, all I see you do is complain about how much you hate everything. How can you justify paying a subscription to a game like this?
Catering to people who hate RPG combat, group mechanics, and want to turn the genre into an action hybrid devoid of depth obviously comes at the expense of catering to players like me with their need for "limited hotbars" and simplistic systems to accommodate their "skillful" spamming of mouse buttons, and reticule "aiming" at giant targets.
You realize how much fluff your post has for content most games already have right? Only 'different' thing in terms of adding on would be limit break which isn't really that huge of a thing as much as a 'flashy' element. You can list all the elements out, ones a good majority of other games have to make it look bigger but in the end the focus should be on what it does have in its simplest form, and in that end it tends to be a bit lack luster and needing more behind it. Not the worst, mind you, but it could use improvements for sure.
You put "discuss" in your topic's name, but from the posts I've read, you just use sarcasm and attack other peoples' opinion.
I've been playing MMO's off and on for about a decade, and I have to say that FFXIV is just the same thing I've been playing in a much prettier skin. I actually find the combat to be a step backwards when compared to some of the newer MMO's.
-------- "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt: Front: UNO Chemistry Club Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Originally posted by Purutzil You realize how much fluff your post has for content most games already have right? Only 'different' thing in terms of adding on would be limit break which isn't really that huge of a thing as much as a 'flashy' element. You can list all the elements out, ones a good majority of other games have to make it look bigger but in the end the focus should be on what it does have in its simplest form, and in that end it tends to be a bit lack luster and needing more behind it. Not the worst, mind you, but it could use improvements for sure.
No it has everything RPG combat offers, which is a plus not a negative to me (also it is not a given as most games do not have "all of the above" and that is an issue I personally had with their group play), and yes it has Limit Breaks which is actually a pretty huge thing since all other MMORPG's on the market lack such a useful party based mechanic.
As I said before if other games could match unique/deep job play, had a group mechanic like skillchain/weakness/sympathetic action/weaving that wasn't completely broken (which they are all except limit break currently), and had more to pay attention in group combat than a single activity for your job I would be playing them (still).
When comparing it to other games group play it kind of matters what other games have to offer and not what my "ideal" would be since that does not exist in reality. So which game has better group combat if this one is "lack luster"?
You put "discuss" in your topic's name, but from the posts I've read, you just use sarcasm and attack other peoples' opinion.
I've been playing MMO's off and on for about a decade, and I have to say that FFXIV is just the same thing I've been playing in a much prettier skin. I actually find the combat to be a step backwards when compared to some of the newer MMO's.
The only discussion your post opens is for someone to say "I agree with you". Seriously, you want me to again say how I don't think it is a step backwards, and I disagree with your opinion.
Try posting something with substance, something that can actually be argued with points and examples before you criticize someone else for being unwilling to "discuss". Trolling is not discussion.
I have laid out my opinion with plenty of examples from other MMORPG's to frame my point of reference. I provided many points which people can argue if they don't agree with me. You on the other hand add nothing to this thread except a whiny personal attack and a generic trolling rant.
Hey look another thread where I have people telling me a game I ACTUALLY PLAYED and LIKED is shit and crap, because it fails to fit their ideal mold of how the game should play like.
You put "discuss" in your topic's name, but from the posts I've read, you just use sarcasm and attack other peoples' opinion.
I've been playing MMO's off and on for about a decade, and I have to say that FFXIV is just the same thing I've been playing in a much prettier skin. I actually find the combat to be a step backwards when compared to some of the newer MMO's.
Exactly, I wrote my opinion and he attcked me saying that the thread wasnt about combat (despite the title)
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing. PS3
Originally posted by Ehllfhire If you are picking up XIV for the combat you will be sorely disappointed. The only worse combat system is TSW's. Luckily I dont play FF for the combat, but it will turn hordes of players off.
What is there to discuss here?
I play for group combat, I'm not disappointed. Who are you talking to? Why do you play? Why are you even here? Do you have anything to discuss other than "I hate seemingly everything about this game" and "I want a lifetime subscription to this game".
Yeah I really don't get why people come on these forums and post over and over again "I hate this game. The combat sucks. It's so boring." Great. You don't like it. So move on. Why continue to waste energy coming here? Do you really need to convince others that your opinion is the only correct one? I don't like GW2's combat. I've expressed my views clearly in another thread on this forum today, but you won't see me in the GW2 forum posting my opinion like it's a fact.
Maybe I can offer another perspective on combat in MMOs, coming from my own experience.
I am turning 32 in August. The game will release 2 days before my birthday.
Having gone through that, I've come to the realization that action combat is too draining for me at this stage of my life. I don't enjoy it in long sessions. It makes my fingers tired and my brain numb.
I'm 47 at the end of this month and whole-heartedly agree with this.
I'm in ZizouX's age group, and while I'm not feeling any of these symptoms yet ... should I be concerned?
Nah, I'm 31 and to be honest he sounds a bit ridiculous. It may take me a few more days to heal up from a wound or recover from an all night bender than it used to, but I'm hardly so decrepit that playing a videogame is going to cause me physical discomfort. I can understand someone at 47 maybe, but not 32.
Sounds like someone needs to put down the video-games and go for a bike ride or something. That's not a healthy sign at that age.
You missed the point completely. The older you get, the more you enjoy things that are not rushed. It is very mentally draining and completely unfulfilling to be spamming the keyboard with twitch bases/action combat. Whereas before, I could spend 4 hours a night raiding, with that type of gameplay/combat.... i prefer not to anymore for a variety of reasons.
Having short timers on abilities to use during the global cooldown, while the cooldown itself is only 1.5 seconds really is just a spamfest. Though wow does this best, I've move on from that hectic type of gameplay.
When I come home from work... i want to relax... action combat, in long sessions is more exhausting than traditional combat. That is why I think some people don't understand why someone can prefer one or the other. Die hard action combat fans cannot fathom why a person would prefer the slower traditional combat, and God forbid, would actually enjoy it. They must be lying, there's no way ANYONE could possibly enjoy FFXIV's combat..... /rolls eyes.....
So basically you want a game you can fall asleep to while watching reality TV and alt tabbing porn? To each their own I guess. I play games to PLAY games.
Originally posted by simulacra Yeah I really don't get why people come on these forums and post over and over again "I hate this game. The combat sucks. It's so boring." Great. You don't like it. So move on. Why continue to waste energy coming here? Do you really need to convince others that your opinion is the only correct one? I don't like GW2's combat. I've expressed my views clearly in another thread on this forum today, but you won't see me in the GW2 forum posting my opinion like it's a fact.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
Originally posted by simulacra Yeah I really don't get why people come on these forums and post over and over again "I hate this game. The combat sucks. It's so boring." Great. You don't like it. So move on. Why continue to waste energy coming here? Do you really need to convince others that your opinion is the only correct one? I don't like GW2's combat. I've expressed my views clearly in another thread on this forum today, but you won't see me in the GW2 forum posting my opinion like it's a fact.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
GCD needs to go. Bottom line. Nothing "strategic" about a tank not being able to use crowd control abilities WHEN HE NEEDS IT because his GCD is stopping him.
Also....Bard songs are pretty damn lame. Basically the only thing they're useful for is Mages Ballad. I am a bard, so its not like im bashing them....its the truth.
You have a TP regen song as well....but given that you have to stay within "hearing distance" in order for it to stay active that pretty much means either you buff the melee or you buff the mages. Not possible to do both. And as a ranged attacker with low defense....you're always going to put yourself with the mages.
I plan on making a lengthy post in the beta forums later on with more detail....but that's the gist of my gripes.
Originally posted by simulacra Yeah I really don't get why people come on these forums and post over and over again "I hate this game. The combat sucks. It's so boring." Great. You don't like it. So move on. Why continue to waste energy coming here? Do you really need to convince others that your opinion is the only correct one? I don't like GW2's combat. I've expressed my views clearly in another thread on this forum today, but you won't see me in the GW2 forum posting my opinion like it's a fact.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
If someone is retarded enough to listen to the opinion of people who haven't even played the game they deserve to miss out.
There ARE people who have played it and don't like the combat at all. Of course, there is always going to be people who just dont like something period. But the overwhelming majority of people in the beta community love the game.
MOST of those people in the Beta such as myself definitely think there are some improvements to be made, but they are small changes that could optimize the entire thing...not game-breaking problems.
So all the morons who are simply reposting others opinions and have never even touched the game.....shut up. Your opinion is worthless.
Originally posted by Malvio Originally posted by Draemos <>Originally posted by simulacra Yeah I really don't get why people come on these forums and post over and over again "I hate this game. The combat sucks. It's so boring." Great. You don't like it. So move on. Why continue to waste energy coming here? Do you really need to convince others that your opinion is the only correct one? I don't like GW2's combat. I've expressed my views clearly in another thread on this forum today, but you won't see me in the GW2 forum posting my opinion like it's a fact.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
If someone is retarded enough to listen to the opinion of people who haven't even played the game they deserve to miss out.
There ARE people who have played it and don't like the combat at all. Of course, there is always going to be people who just dont like something period. But the overwhelming majority of people in the beta community love the game.
MOST of those people in the Beta such as myself definitely think there are some improvements to be made, but they are small changes that could optimize the entire thing...not game-breaking problems.
So all the morons who are simply reposting others opinions and have never even touched the game.....shut up. Your opinion is worthless.
I remember when I was in the Warhammer closed beta and everyone "loved" it. Of course it was a disaster and anyone with an objective eye could see that, but betas are full of early adopters and superfans and give terrible feedback.
Not that this game is anywhere near as bad as warhammer, but considering most FFXIV beta testers bought that original disaster of a game despite horrendous beta reports..., I wouldnt trust their objectivity farther than I could throw them.
Originally posted by Draemos Originally posted by simulacra Yeah I really don't get why people come on these forums and post over and over again "I hate this game. The combat sucks. It's so boring." Great. You don't like it. So move on. Why continue to waste energy coming here? Do you really need to convince others that your opinion is the only correct one? I don't like GW2's combat. I've expressed my views clearly in another thread on this forum today, but you won't see me in the GW2 forum posting my opinion like it's a fact.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
the point of this independant website is so people can discuss games objectively. The official forums is for circlejerking how amazing the game is
<>Originally posted by simulacra Yeah I really don't get why people come on these forums and post over and over again "I hate this game. The combat sucks. It's so boring." Great. You don't like it. So move on. Why continue to waste energy coming here? Do you really need to convince others that your opinion is the only correct one? I don't like GW2's combat. I've expressed my views clearly in another thread on this forum today, but you won't see me in the GW2 forum posting my opinion like it's a fact.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
If someone is retarded enough to listen to the opinion of people who haven't even played the game they deserve to miss out.
There ARE people who have played it and don't like the combat at all. Of course, there is always going to be people who just dont like something period. But the overwhelming majority of people in the beta community love the game.
MOST of those people in the Beta such as myself definitely think there are some improvements to be made, but they are small changes that could optimize the entire thing...not game-breaking problems.
So all the morons who are simply reposting others opinions and have never even touched the game.....shut up. Your opinion is worthless.
I remember when I was in the Warhammer closed beta and everyone "loved" it. Of course it was a disaster and anyone with an objective eye could see that, but betas are full of early adopters and superfans and give terrible feedback. Not that this game is anywhere near as bad as warhammer, but considering most FFXIV beta testers bought that original disaster of a game despite horrendous beta reports..., I wouldnt trust their objectivity farther than I could throw them.
I agree. The game isn't going to be for everyone...no game ever is. The thing that's annoying is that people who haven't even played the game or are only re-hashing negative feedback the read somewhere is ignorance at it's best.
Negativity rings louder than praise...particularly in the mmo community where a lot of people are jaded and sick of the same old thing.
That being said....I don't think that the game is flawless at all. In fact my earlier post was the extent of my gripes in regards to combat in the game. The OP has ACTUALLY answered people's responses with in-game examples that are %100 factual though. He even went into the detail of step-by-step how things work to give examples of how people were wrong about aspects of the combat. Although I think he also went off on tangents and started flaming when he did.....at least there was that.
Not agreeing and correcting someone are two very different things, with a fine line drawn between them. I think the OP went over the line in some instances....but for the most part stayed on the one side. As someone who has actually PLAYED the game AND has a max level job (that we were allowed to port in during the more recent phases of beta to play around with) I can tell you that it's not at all what it's been made out to be.
It's frustrating to see people who have no idea what they're talking about try to make something look bad. And when the OP presented to them examples of why they were mistaken in painstaking detail...most just replied that he was a flaming fanboy.
Some people have actually pointed out TRUE objective things, such as someone earlier saying that while its not NEARLY as simplistic as some people try to make it out to be....you CAN play it at that level (at least in the content that we've played up to this point). That statement is actually true, so I have no qualms with it.
Well here's the summary of it from my perspective, if you don't play your class, role well, as a group, you won't be able to utilize the Limit break system to it's fullest potential, this may lead to a lot of wiping in progression stage of raiding, I can see that tank and heals limit break will be more essential for progression, and dps limits for farm mode.
What this means, a lot less "carried" players in the game, however, this is compensated for by the hand holding schooling players get at the early stages of the game, which is almost necessary considering this is going to by on PS3, where there will be new to mmo players.
From all the information coming in and from what I had experienced in game, FFXIV ARR carters to a broad spectrum of players, from casuals, rp, raiders, pvpers, and hardcore raiders. The final product will be when frontline is released and we have a full view of the game.
So far it is a very polished mmo, with a lot more content available at release, then any mmo ever put out, why, because there is not one single mmo launched with lvl 50 players from day one. This seporates it from any game in the past.
But here's the kicker, none of those people at level 50 know how to play their jobs or roles correctly in a raid environment, they will also have to go through the hand holding process as well, or they will wipe many times, and then QQ on the forum that endgame is too hard. Not sure that will happen, look at the QQ beta forum post about the level 15 quest, all it needs is for you t be prepared, and for you to pay attention to the quests. Be prepared, pay attention and know your class, seems like a win combination for endgame raiding and a much better source for a more skilled group play.
Not to be rude but OP is clearly lying when he says he's "not defending FF14's combat" or w/e.
The combat is in fact, boring. It is not the best group play either. That goes to FF11 with skill chains, magic bursts, sneak/trick attack, cover; and the wonderful enfeebles/buffs that numbered in the hundreds.
This game makes believe there's group play involved by introducing limit breaks, but all you do is rotate skills like older MMO's. To make matters worse, it simplifies the system even more.
THM is the biggest culprit of this. It's a job where you do the exact same rotation from 1-50.
I wish I were kidding folks. You cast fire until your MP is sort of low, then you use transpose to regen mp, you put up lightning spells, and then you switch back to fire...
That's it......
You might pick up Aero from CNJ or w/e...
Every other job goes through the same nonsense. A few skills and all on the same rotation. There's no skill trees to diversify your rotations. There's no builds people work on to figure out the best DPS possible (this was huge and really brought the community together)
There's only one rotation needed and you only have to worry about yourself. Massive cookie cutter crap. It's over-simplified junk and people only care about it for the aesthetics.
How can you make all of this even worse? You add a GC on everything to guarantee that you only spam one spell.
Comments
Try and prevent it
There are a variety of stuns available in this game spread out across jobs. Paladin, Warrior,Monk, White Mage, and Dragoon all have stuns. They all work differently, with limitations and advantages.
For example Monk's Steel Peak ignores the Skill cooldown, so they are generally able to react the fastest. Paladin requires a block in order to stun, however it does not suffer from the same immunity problems other jobs run into if they spam their stun too often.
Just posting to correct the highlighted, Tanks have Shield Bash on a cooldown, which is the stun you are mentioning.
The one requiring a Block to be used is Shield Swipe, which inflicts Pacification on the target, making it peaceful for a few seconds.
Other than that, carry on!
The Deep Web is sca-ry.
You missed the point completely. The older you get, the more you enjoy things that are not rushed. It is very mentally draining and completely unfulfilling to be spamming the keyboard with twitch bases/action combat. Whereas before, I could spend 4 hours a night raiding, with that type of gameplay/combat.... i prefer not to anymore for a variety of reasons.
Having short timers on abilities to use during the global cooldown, while the cooldown itself is only 1.5 seconds really is just a spamfest. Though wow does this best, I've move on from that hectic type of gameplay.
When I come home from work... i want to relax... action combat, in long sessions is more exhausting than traditional combat. That is why I think some people don't understand why someone can prefer one or the other. Die hard action combat fans cannot fathom why a person would prefer the slower traditional combat, and God forbid, would actually enjoy it. They must be lying, there's no way ANYONE could possibly enjoy FFXIV's combat..... /rolls eyes.....
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
Well, you could always stop spamming. Since the abilities in action combat MMOs are governed by animation times, you're not gaining anything by spamming buttons anyway. I know both Tera and GW2 have class/weapon combinations that have longer skill animations, some even getting close to XIVs GCD. Seems perfectly valid for us oldtimers.
I play for GROUP play, and that is what this post is about.
FFXIV has the best group combat system I have seen in years (maybe ever). People who actually like group play will not be disappointed. But maybe people who could stomach GW2's complete lack of it, and still praise its "awesome combat" will be turned off.
To me that's a good thing, if people can't appreciate good group play then they are not looking for the same things in an RPG as me. You obviously aren't, i have no idea why you not only continue to follow this game but want them to give you a lifetime sub like you are some blind fanatic. Seriously what does appeal to you about this game, all I see you do is complain about how much you hate everything. How can you justify paying a subscription to a game like this?
Catering to people who hate RPG combat, group mechanics, and want to turn the genre into an action hybrid devoid of depth obviously comes at the expense of catering to players like me with their need for "limited hotbars" and simplistic systems to accommodate their "skillful" spamming of mouse buttons, and reticule "aiming" at giant targets.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
You put "discuss" in your topic's name, but from the posts I've read, you just use sarcasm and attack other peoples' opinion.
I've been playing MMO's off and on for about a decade, and I have to say that FFXIV is just the same thing I've been playing in a much prettier skin. I actually find the combat to be a step backwards when compared to some of the newer MMO's.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
No it has everything RPG combat offers, which is a plus not a negative to me (also it is not a given as most games do not have "all of the above" and that is an issue I personally had with their group play), and yes it has Limit Breaks which is actually a pretty huge thing since all other MMORPG's on the market lack such a useful party based mechanic.
As I said before if other games could match unique/deep job play, had a group mechanic like skillchain/weakness/sympathetic action/weaving that wasn't completely broken (which they are all except limit break currently), and had more to pay attention in group combat than a single activity for your job I would be playing them (still).
When comparing it to other games group play it kind of matters what other games have to offer and not what my "ideal" would be since that does not exist in reality. So which game has better group combat if this one is "lack luster"?
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
The only discussion your post opens is for someone to say "I agree with you". Seriously, you want me to again say how I don't think it is a step backwards, and I disagree with your opinion.
Try posting something with substance, something that can actually be argued with points and examples before you criticize someone else for being unwilling to "discuss". Trolling is not discussion.
I have laid out my opinion with plenty of examples from other MMORPG's to frame my point of reference. I provided many points which people can argue if they don't agree with me. You on the other hand add nothing to this thread except a whiny personal attack and a generic trolling rant.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Hey look another thread where I have people telling me a game I ACTUALLY PLAYED and LIKED is shit and crap, because it fails to fit their ideal mold of how the game should play like.
(not you OP, excellent post)
Exactly, I wrote my opinion and he attcked me saying that the thread wasnt about combat (despite the title)
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
What is there to discuss here?
I play for group combat, I'm not disappointed. Who are you talking to? Why do you play? Why are you even here? Do you have anything to discuss other than "I hate seemingly everything about this game" and "I want a lifetime subscription to this game".
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
So basically you want a game you can fall asleep to while watching reality TV and alt tabbing porn? To each their own I guess. I play games to PLAY games.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
GCD needs to go. Bottom line. Nothing "strategic" about a tank not being able to use crowd control abilities WHEN HE NEEDS IT because his GCD is stopping him.
Also....Bard songs are pretty damn lame. Basically the only thing they're useful for is Mages Ballad. I am a bard, so its not like im bashing them....its the truth.
You have a TP regen song as well....but given that you have to stay within "hearing distance" in order for it to stay active that pretty much means either you buff the melee or you buff the mages. Not possible to do both. And as a ranged attacker with low defense....you're always going to put yourself with the mages.
I plan on making a lengthy post in the beta forums later on with more detail....but that's the gist of my gripes.
If someone is retarded enough to listen to the opinion of people who haven't even played the game they deserve to miss out.
There ARE people who have played it and don't like the combat at all. Of course, there is always going to be people who just dont like something period. But the overwhelming majority of people in the beta community love the game.
MOST of those people in the Beta such as myself definitely think there are some improvements to be made, but they are small changes that could optimize the entire thing...not game-breaking problems.
So all the morons who are simply reposting others opinions and have never even touched the game.....shut up. Your opinion is worthless.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
If someone is retarded enough to listen to the opinion of people who haven't even played the game they deserve to miss out.
There ARE people who have played it and don't like the combat at all. Of course, there is always going to be people who just dont like something period. But the overwhelming majority of people in the beta community love the game.
MOST of those people in the Beta such as myself definitely think there are some improvements to be made, but they are small changes that could optimize the entire thing...not game-breaking problems.
So all the morons who are simply reposting others opinions and have never even touched the game.....shut up. Your opinion is worthless.
I remember when I was in the Warhammer closed beta and everyone "loved" it. Of course it was a disaster and anyone with an objective eye could see that, but betas are full of early adopters and superfans and give terrible feedback.Not that this game is anywhere near as bad as warhammer, but considering most FFXIV beta testers bought that original disaster of a game despite horrendous beta reports..., I wouldnt trust their objectivity farther than I could throw them.
Cause if only fanboys post on these forums some poor fool is going to come in and spend $80 on a collectors edition of a game because he was mislead into believing it was much better than it is.
If someone is that retarded he/she deserved to loose those 80 bucks.
the point of this independant website is so people can discuss games objectively. The official forums is for circlejerking how amazing the game isI agree. The game isn't going to be for everyone...no game ever is. The thing that's annoying is that people who haven't even played the game or are only re-hashing negative feedback the read somewhere is ignorance at it's best.
Negativity rings louder than praise...particularly in the mmo community where a lot of people are jaded and sick of the same old thing.
That being said....I don't think that the game is flawless at all. In fact my earlier post was the extent of my gripes in regards to combat in the game. The OP has ACTUALLY answered people's responses with in-game examples that are %100 factual though. He even went into the detail of step-by-step how things work to give examples of how people were wrong about aspects of the combat. Although I think he also went off on tangents and started flaming when he did.....at least there was that.
Not agreeing and correcting someone are two very different things, with a fine line drawn between them. I think the OP went over the line in some instances....but for the most part stayed on the one side. As someone who has actually PLAYED the game AND has a max level job (that we were allowed to port in during the more recent phases of beta to play around with) I can tell you that it's not at all what it's been made out to be.
It's frustrating to see people who have no idea what they're talking about try to make something look bad. And when the OP presented to them examples of why they were mistaken in painstaking detail...most just replied that he was a flaming fanboy.
Some people have actually pointed out TRUE objective things, such as someone earlier saying that while its not NEARLY as simplistic as some people try to make it out to be....you CAN play it at that level (at least in the content that we've played up to this point). That statement is actually true, so I have no qualms with it.
Well here's the summary of it from my perspective, if you don't play your class, role well, as a group, you won't be able to utilize the Limit break system to it's fullest potential, this may lead to a lot of wiping in progression stage of raiding, I can see that tank and heals limit break will be more essential for progression, and dps limits for farm mode.
What this means, a lot less "carried" players in the game, however, this is compensated for by the hand holding schooling players get at the early stages of the game, which is almost necessary considering this is going to by on PS3, where there will be new to mmo players.
From all the information coming in and from what I had experienced in game, FFXIV ARR carters to a broad spectrum of players, from casuals, rp, raiders, pvpers, and hardcore raiders. The final product will be when frontline is released and we have a full view of the game.
So far it is a very polished mmo, with a lot more content available at release, then any mmo ever put out, why, because there is not one single mmo launched with lvl 50 players from day one. This seporates it from any game in the past.
But here's the kicker, none of those people at level 50 know how to play their jobs or roles correctly in a raid environment, they will also have to go through the hand holding process as well, or they will wipe many times, and then QQ on the forum that endgame is too hard. Not sure that will happen, look at the QQ beta forum post about the level 15 quest, all it needs is for you t be prepared, and for you to pay attention to the quests. Be prepared, pay attention and know your class, seems like a win combination for endgame raiding and a much better source for a more skilled group play.
Not to be rude but OP is clearly lying when he says he's "not defending FF14's combat" or w/e.
The combat is in fact, boring. It is not the best group play either. That goes to FF11 with skill chains, magic bursts, sneak/trick attack, cover; and the wonderful enfeebles/buffs that numbered in the hundreds.
This game makes believe there's group play involved by introducing limit breaks, but all you do is rotate skills like older MMO's. To make matters worse, it simplifies the system even more.
THM is the biggest culprit of this. It's a job where you do the exact same rotation from 1-50.
I wish I were kidding folks. You cast fire until your MP is sort of low, then you use transpose to regen mp, you put up lightning spells, and then you switch back to fire...
That's it......
You might pick up Aero from CNJ or w/e...
Every other job goes through the same nonsense. A few skills and all on the same rotation. There's no skill trees to diversify your rotations. There's no builds people work on to figure out the best DPS possible (this was huge and really brought the community together)
There's only one rotation needed and you only have to worry about yourself. Massive cookie cutter crap. It's over-simplified junk and people only care about it for the aesthetics.
How can you make all of this even worse? You add a GC on everything to guarantee that you only spam one spell.
Thank you Obama.