Based on personal experience, I know some of you are right and some of you are wrong.
At this point it's pointless to argue with anyone in regards to the game. The only thing I will say is, wait until the game is released and then see for yourself.
I also wouldn't recommend judging the game based off of leaked material.
Don't forget there's a public playable demo of ESO at the Bethesda booth at QuakeCon early next month. That should generate plenty of interesting videos and conversations.
Did those arguing for proper TES First Person Combat wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves? Did those arguing for the ability to visit and explore the opposing faction areas wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves?
Except in those cases we knew for a fact that there were no hands in first person and we knew we couldnt goto other faction lands. In this case there has been no concrete information about how many POIs that really are in the game. There have been reports both ways regarding it.
Based on personal experience, I know some of you are right and some of you are wrong.
At this point it's pointless to argue with anyone in regards to the game. The only thing I will say is, wait until the game is released and then see for yourself.
I also wouldn't recommend judging the game based off of leaked material.
Don't forget there's a public playable demo of ESO at the Bethesda booth at QuakeCon early next month. That should generate plenty of interesting videos and conversations.
Did those arguing for proper TES First Person Combat wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves? Did those arguing for the ability to visit and explore the opposing faction areas wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves?
Except in those cases we knew for a fact that there were no hands in first person and we knew we couldnt goto other faction lands. In this case there has been no concrete information about how many POIs that really are in the game. There have been reports both ways regarding it.
Actually there are plenty of leaks if one was to look but the fact remains. It is an integral part of the Elder Scrolls series and if rumors are to the contrary then I would hope people would address it, instead of blind fully obedient hoping it may or may not change.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by Anireth I do not really want an MMO to be like a single player game.
Ditto.
Tried it and took me 2 years of MMO stagnation because I was exactly like the OP a year ago because I was hopping from one shiny new MMO to the next. I used to be a doubter like the OP and demean people for saying the things I say now but I did not understand what they meant and it took me 3 MMO's in 1 year and a quick wakeup call from an E3 announcement to understand what they were saying.
What are you even talking about?
I've tried every MMO that has come out, none are any good compared to what ESO will be. GW2, Neverwinter, TERA, etc., etc. Oh and BTW, WOW I played it back when it was actually good and it can't compare in any way to what ESO has to offer.
My point in this thread was to say ESO will be a game that when you play it, you feel like you are in the Elder scrolls world, instantly you will know, "this is elder scrolls." I said that because of all the fools on here that try to say it can never feel like the "real" elder scrolls games(the single player ones).
Nothing I said was meant to make it seem like the MMO will feel like a single player game at all lol. It meant that Zenimax will capture all that makes the single player games fun and make them as fun, but in a multiplayer world. They won't leave any of the important things out.
You guys that just sit there and talk about articles and video clips need to just stop gaming if all you can do is gripe and moan all day about games you have never even tried. Seriously, if you hate all games, get a new hobby.
People hate a game you like, therefore they must hate all games...?
So here's a little logic for you. 'I' am not 'you'. Likewise, 'I' am not 'they'. The hundreds of people complaining about ESO are not necessarily the same hundreds that are complaining about some other game. So, that every game has someone complaining about it =/= every single gamer hating every single game. Believe it or not, we have not yet been assimilated. We are not legion.
Granted, some people are more rabidly hive-mind than others, but their delusions are inevitably shattered. Much like yours will eventually be, I suspect.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Originally posted by khameleon All I can say is this game will surprise the doubters, everything they are saying about the game being cheap, nothing like the 1 player game and about the graphics, etc. all wrong.It will have top notch graphics, top of the line animation, voiced npcs and all the good stuff from the 1 player games where it lets you pick everything up, read stuff, search bookcases, everything is there.
You're in for a big surprise. It is close in some ways, but far off in others. Being an MMO and not a single player game, this is to be expected to some extent.
Your second paragraph is mainly speculation. There are a couple of falsehoods I can assure you are listed. If you think that is how the single player games played, I have to wonder if you even played them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Based on personal experience, I know some of you are right and some of you are wrong.
At this point it's pointless to argue with anyone in regards to the game. The only thing I will say is, wait until the game is released and then see for yourself.
I also wouldn't recommend judging the game based off of leaked material.
Don't forget there's a public playable demo of ESO at the Bethesda booth at QuakeCon early next month. That should generate plenty of interesting videos and conversations.
Did those arguing for proper TES First Person Combat wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves? Did those arguing for the ability to visit and explore the opposing faction areas wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves?
Except in those cases we knew for a fact that there were no hands in first person and we knew we couldnt goto other faction lands. In this case there has been no concrete information about how many POIs that really are in the game. There have been reports both ways regarding it.
Actually there are plenty of leaks if one was to look but the fact remains. It is an integral part of the Elder Scrolls series and if rumors are to the contrary then I would hope people would address it, instead of blind fully obedient hoping it may or may not change.
You must have different sources than everyone else. I have seen all the leaks both video and write ups I believe and they are on both sides of the fence. You seem to have a hard stance on that there are hardly any POIs while I am right in the middle and am waiting on something more than just an hour demo speak and short leaks.
Now if it turns out that there arent many POIs then I will be right there with you. Now I am not sure if I want as many POIs as are in say Skyrim with a bandit camp in a ruined keep a stones throw away from a guard tower which is a stones throw away from a ritual stone a stones throw away from a cave over and over again.. If there are less but more meaningful I would be ok with that..
Waiting on some information that takes place past level 8 isnt so much to ask is it?
Originally posted by khameleon I feel so bad for people that just talk bad about every game coming out, they have no fun, they play "troll forum mmo" while others enjoy games daily.I haven't broken any NDA, everything I said has been announced in the past, but I do already know the game will be great, how? You can guess that.Like I said, wait and see or you can just talk bad and skip the game without trying it I guess and play forum mmo the rest of your life.
The mmorpg forum is pointless to post anymore, only trolls run this site! Trolls that will always hate on any game.
You forgot about those who aggressively attack naysayers, until one tiny announcement is made about something they do not agree with, then they become the worst of the lot in terms of outlandish statements and negativity.
I think even the site is giving you a hint buddy... "Give it a rest" as your title.The guy is right, all people do on here is get mad that anybody enjoys any games. They are mad others are happy playing a game or looking forward to one so they want to try to talk them out of it, its hilarious.....
I could be wrong, but I don't get the feeling that many posters, negative or positive, really care if another poster enjoys a game. I am actually glad some posters DO find enjoyment in their MMOs of choice. I envy them.
There are a number of posters, myself included that wish MMORPGs would get the "RPG" back in their genre. Many are looking for virtual worlds like the ones that used to captivate us in "the old days", before the player numbers shot sky high, many of them never interested in the genre in the first place.
Ignore what you causes you strife. Counter posts with facts, not opinions presented as facts. Then genuine discussions can occur. This goes for both sides of the coin.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.
Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.
As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by MyTabbycat Based on personal experience, I know some of you are right and some of you are wrong.At this point it's pointless to argue with anyone in regards to the game. The only thing I will say is, wait until the game is released and then see for yourself.I also wouldn't recommend judging the game based off of leaked material.Don't forget there's a public playable demo of ESO at the Bethesda booth at QuakeCon early next month. That should generate plenty of interesting videos and conversations.
I'll be playing the game at GamesCom and asking proper questions of the devs.
I wish you the best of luck getting meaningful answers to your questions
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I personally hope the OP is right, but I have my doubts. There's too many little things in both Skyrim and Morrowind that make them really great that simply are not possible to do in an MMO. If the devs can find suitable replacements and keep exploration an important aspect of the game, it has a good chance of capturing the Elder Scrolls feeling; otherwise, regardless of whether or not its a good MMO, it will not be an Elder Scrolls game. Given the developer, I would say that they at least have a chance of pulling it off, but we won't know for sure until they actually release the full game.
Based on personal experience, I know some of you are right and some of you are wrong.
At this point it's pointless to argue with anyone in regards to the game. The only thing I will say is, wait until the game is released and then see for yourself.
I also wouldn't recommend judging the game based off of leaked material.
Don't forget there's a public playable demo of ESO at the Bethesda booth at QuakeCon early next month. That should generate plenty of interesting videos and conversations.
Did those arguing for proper TES First Person Combat wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves? Did those arguing for the ability to visit and explore the opposing faction areas wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves?
Except in those cases we knew for a fact that there were no hands in first person and we knew we couldnt goto other faction lands. In this case there has been no concrete information about how many POIs that really are in the game. There have been reports both ways regarding it.
Actually there are plenty of leaks if one was to look but the fact remains. It is an integral part of the Elder Scrolls series and if rumors are to the contrary then I would hope people would address it, instead of blind fully obedient hoping it may or may not change.
You must have different sources than everyone else. I have seen all the leaks both video and write ups I believe and they are on both sides of the fence. You seem to have a hard stance on that there are hardly any POIs while I am right in the middle and am waiting on something more than just an hour demo speak and short leaks.
Now if it turns out that there arent many POIs then I will be right there with you. Now I am not sure if I want as many POIs as are in say Skyrim with a bandit camp in a ruined keep a stones throw away from a guard tower which is a stones throw away from a ritual stone a stones throw away from a cave over and over again.. If there are less but more meaningful I would be ok with that..
Waiting on some information that takes place past level 8 isnt so much to ask is it?
Yes it is, it is an integral part of Elder Scrolls MMO's and the density needs to match, as you say a stones throw away from something else. That is one of main selling points of the franchise and to neglect it is to do the IP an injustice. Is it so hard to worry about an item that has been shown to be relatively neglected? I think not, so instead of waiting around, I choose to voice my opinion to ensure this gets addressed.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Based on personal experience, I know some of you are right and some of you are wrong.
At this point it's pointless to argue with anyone in regards to the game. The only thing I will say is, wait until the game is released and then see for yourself.
I also wouldn't recommend judging the game based off of leaked material.
Don't forget there's a public playable demo of ESO at the Bethesda booth at QuakeCon early next month. That should generate plenty of interesting videos and conversations.
Did those arguing for proper TES First Person Combat wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves? Did those arguing for the ability to visit and explore the opposing faction areas wait for release to see if it was in game for themselves?
Except in those cases we knew for a fact that there were no hands in first person and we knew we couldnt goto other faction lands. In this case there has been no concrete information about how many POIs that really are in the game. There have been reports both ways regarding it.
Actually there are plenty of leaks if one was to look but the fact remains. It is an integral part of the Elder Scrolls series and if rumors are to the contrary then I would hope people would address it, instead of blind fully obedient hoping it may or may not change.
You must have different sources than everyone else. I have seen all the leaks both video and write ups I believe and they are on both sides of the fence. You seem to have a hard stance on that there are hardly any POIs while I am right in the middle and am waiting on something more than just an hour demo speak and short leaks.
Now if it turns out that there arent many POIs then I will be right there with you. Now I am not sure if I want as many POIs as are in say Skyrim with a bandit camp in a ruined keep a stones throw away from a guard tower which is a stones throw away from a ritual stone a stones throw away from a cave over and over again.. If there are less but more meaningful I would be ok with that..
Waiting on some information that takes place past level 8 isnt so much to ask is it?
Yes it is, it is an integral part of Elder Scrolls MMO's and the density needs to match, as you say a stones throw away from something else. That is one of main selling points of the franchise and to neglect it is to do the IP an injustice. Is it so hard to worry about an item that has been shown to be relatively neglected? I think not, so instead of waiting around, I choose to voice my opinion to ensure this gets addressed.
I agree with you that there needs to be a lot of POIs, but you really need to be a little more realistic regarding your comparisons between a single player game and a online one. Since unlike Skyrim there willl be leveled areas, its impossible for it to be as free roaming as Skyrim. I actually prefer leveled areas as oppossed to everything leveling up with you which I think breaks immersion, though Skyrim did a much better job at it than Oblivion where I had to heavily mod the game. I think instead of comparing it to Skyrim, you'd perhaps be a little more satisfied if you compare it to most other available themeparks which feel in most cases like narrow corridors. If the areas that allow you to roam within a reasonable level that you are at knowing you can't just roam anywhere or you will die are still open feeling, I'll be a happy camper. SWTOR was too corridor like, EQ2 and AOC zones loaders were horrible since to me at least the zones felt small, WOW and LOTOR felt a little more open than those games, Vanguard was the most open but that game was a technical mess and paid the price for that.
All I can say is this game will surprise the doubters, everything they are saying about the game being cheap, nothing like the 1 player game and about the graphics, etc. all wrong.
It will have top notch graphics, top of the line animation, voiced npcs and all the good stuff from the 1 player games where it lets you pick everything up, read stuff, search bookcases, everything is there.
Can I buy a house ?
No
Can I steal everything from every house in the world and furnish my own ?
No
Can I install thousands of mods to tweak and improve the game to make it perfect just for me?
No
In 7 years time can I install the hundreds of mesh graphics animation and sound improvements that a dedicated fanbase has created to make it look as good as the best out there ?
I don't think so.
Everything you stated in your post is shallow at best but I guess some will be fooled
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.
Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.
As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.
Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.
The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.
Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.
As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.
Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.
The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.
Take that as you will. (Joining in on the fad XD)
If this was circa 2004 I would agree with you 100% but since the release of that "other well known mega successful MMO" every company has been trying to reach that zenith with many a failure along the way. The MMO genre has seen fail after fail and it seems that none of these companies want to understand why their games failed to live up to their expectations. Because of this there has been massive stagflation in the genre which has led to this epidemic of mediocrity. If more developers would look at some of the negativity surrounding their game and not live like ostriches with their heads stuck In the sand the genre might just break out of it's funk. Sadly it isn't going to be with this game. That is something I respectfully encourage you to bank on.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.
Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.
As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.
Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.
The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.
Take that as you will. (Joining in on the fad XD)
If this was circa 2004 I would agree with you 100% but since the release of that "other well known mega successful MMO" every company has been trying to reach that zenith with many a failure along the way. The MMO genre has seen fail after fail and it seems that none of these companies want to understand why their games failed to live up to their expectations. Because of this there has been massive stagflation in the genre which has led to this epidemic of mediocrity. If more developers would look at some of the negativity surrounding their game and not live like ostriches with their heads stuck In the sand the genre might just break out of it's funk. Sadly it isn't going to be with this game. That is something I respectfully encourage you to bank on.
Don't care what you think. I am very well aware of how the genre has been going. Still doesn't really change what I said. If you want your voice to be heard go to the developers, not us. THEN you would have a point. But really people complaining HERE, doesn't do jack. It's pointless. Unless you can point out to me an actual good reason. Do you think the developers come here and read this forum?
Also, I am inclined to ask, what you think a game needs to be in order to get out of this so called funk? The reason I ask, is because I bet many people would disagree with you in certain areas. Everyone has there own so called idea of what a perfect MMO would be, and really not everyone will agree with that vision. I have come to the conclusion the problem isn't just the genre, the developers, or the games. I personally think it's a lot to do with the players and the current payment models as well.
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.
Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.
As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.
Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.
The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.
Take that as you will. (Joining in on the fad XD)
If this was circa 2004 I would agree with you 100% but since the release of that "other well known mega successful MMO" every company has been trying to reach that zenith with many a failure along the way. The MMO genre has seen fail after fail and it seems that none of these companies want to understand why their games failed to live up to their expectations. Because of this there has been massive stagflation in the genre which has led to this epidemic of mediocrity. If more developers would look at some of the negativity surrounding their game and not live like ostriches with their heads stuck In the sand the genre might just break out of it's funk. Sadly it isn't going to be with this game. That is something I respectfully encourage you to bank on.
Don't care what you think. I am very well aware of how the genre has been going. Still doesn't really change what I said. If you want your voice to be heard go to the developers, not us. THEN you would have a point. But really people complaining HERE, doesn't do jack. It's pointless. Unless you can point out to me an actual good reason. Do you think the developers come here and read this forum?
Also, I am inclined to ask, what you think a game needs to be in order to get out of this so called funk? The reason I ask, is because I bet many people would disagree with you in certain areas. Everyone has there own so called idea of what a perfect MMO would be, and really not everyone will agree with that vision. I have come to the conclusion the problem isn't just the genre, the developers, or the games. I personally think it's a lot to do with the players and the current payment models as well.
[mod edit] To answer the red outlined above I will make a list of things I think an MMO need to provide longevity and sustainability:
Return to hard content
Removal of most vestiges of casual gameplay
Group centered activities that provide socio-economic incentives to ensure grouping and cooperation over solo (I am not saying remove soloing but give grouping the utmost amount of support and reward)
Activities beyond Combat and Loot: things like Player Housing, Alternate Advancement systems and plentiful economic activities not tied to cornering a market on an elaborate Auction House.
Open ended exploration with enormous amounts of real estate to wander around in
Sporadic and spontaneous activities spurred on by random spawning of Bosses who can and will change the landscape permanently if not dealt with (think of end of Beta Activities where Dev's spawn content specific to give the close of beta a memorable event)
Removal of content meant to be defeated within 1 setting
Removal of reaching level caps or "end game" within a week.
Basically take your choice of activities and systems from the original big 3 (UO, EQ & AC) with early Vanilla WoW activities and systems and innovate on them. Mark my word (which I know you won't) TESO is going to be a huge failure based on what we know so far, and IMO the Dev's know this and they decided to forgo all referral to MMO and attempt to market to those 11 million Skyrim Console Players. Problem is those console players by and large detest MMO's and the majority of those gamers will quit within weeks to months when they realize that all the small things that made Skyrim fun are gone because they don't work in an MMO setting. Hence my message I've had for a while now that ZOS needs to replace those activities that do not work in an MMO setting with things that do work. As of yet they haven't done as much.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.Take that as you will.
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.Take that as you will. (Joining in on the fad XD)
My conundrum with this game is that it could be a fun MMO. But do I support it knowing full well they are raping the series just for a buck?
When I think about what this MMO could have been and the direction they decided to take it, I am torn between supporting them and showing my disdain for them.
This is why I will not pay for the game. I may eventually play it, but I'll wait and hope TES VI does not go further down the Skyrim road.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Yes because after Skyrim and the expansions what TES fans really want is a dumbed down WoW version of that with a dumbed down combat and class system.... I'm sure that's what they want, in fact I know it!
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.
Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.
Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.
The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.
Take that as you will. (Joining in on the fad XD)
My conundrum with this game is that it could be a fun MMO. But do I support it knowing full well they are raping the series just for a buck?
When I think about what this MMO could have been and the direction they decided to take it, I am torn between supporting them and showing my disdain for them.
This is why I will not pay for the game. I may eventually play it, but I'll wait and hope TES VI does not go further down the Skyrim road.
I most certainly can understand this and you make a good point.
Originally posted by jdlamson75 I think you folks are looking into this way too much. I'll just say this: My favorite game of all time is Morrowind, and I love Skyrim. I played the beta for ESO this past weekend, and had my doubts about the game going in. After the weekend, I can say I will absolutely be playing the game at launch.
Take that as you will.
Same for me. Loved Morrowind, had great loads of fun in Skyrim. Played the beta 2 weekends ago and will not be paying for the game.As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.
Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.
The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.
Take that as you will. (Joining in on the fad XD)
My conundrum with this game is that it could be a fun MMO. But do I support it knowing full well they are raping the series just for a buck?
When I think about what this MMO could have been and the direction they decided to take it, I am torn between supporting them and showing my disdain for them.
This is why I will not pay for the game. I may eventually play it, but I'll wait and hope TES VI does not go further down the Skyrim road.
I most certainly can understand this and you make a good point.
Maybe but for me I do not see how they are doing the TES series a disservice with TESO. So many people think they should have made it exactly as the single player games but that would have made one mess of an MMO and others think that TES is a sandbox when it isnt. With each release the TES SP games have gotten simpler and simpler anyway and really do not resemble the series even from Morrowind and Morrowind from Arena!
Comments
Except in those cases we knew for a fact that there were no hands in first person and we knew we couldnt goto other faction lands. In this case there has been no concrete information about how many POIs that really are in the game. There have been reports both ways regarding it.
Actually there are plenty of leaks if one was to look but the fact remains. It is an integral part of the Elder Scrolls series and if rumors are to the contrary then I would hope people would address it, instead of blind fully obedient hoping it may or may not change.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
People hate a game you like, therefore they must hate all games...?
So here's a little logic for you. 'I' am not 'you'. Likewise, 'I' am not 'they'. The hundreds of people complaining about ESO are not necessarily the same hundreds that are complaining about some other game. So, that every game has someone complaining about it =/= every single gamer hating every single game. Believe it or not, we have not yet been assimilated. We are not legion.
Granted, some people are more rabidly hive-mind than others, but their delusions are inevitably shattered. Much like yours will eventually be, I suspect.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Your second paragraph is mainly speculation. There are a couple of falsehoods I can assure you are listed. If you think that is how the single player games played, I have to wonder if you even played them.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You must have different sources than everyone else. I have seen all the leaks both video and write ups I believe and they are on both sides of the fence. You seem to have a hard stance on that there are hardly any POIs while I am right in the middle and am waiting on something more than just an hour demo speak and short leaks.
Now if it turns out that there arent many POIs then I will be right there with you. Now I am not sure if I want as many POIs as are in say Skyrim with a bandit camp in a ruined keep a stones throw away from a guard tower which is a stones throw away from a ritual stone a stones throw away from a cave over and over again.. If there are less but more meaningful I would be ok with that..
Waiting on some information that takes place past level 8 isnt so much to ask is it?
There are a number of posters, myself included that wish MMORPGs would get the "RPG" back in their genre. Many are looking for virtual worlds like the ones that used to captivate us in "the old days", before the player numbers shot sky high, many of them never interested in the genre in the first place.
Ignore what you causes you strife. Counter posts with facts, not opinions presented as facts. Then genuine discussions can occur. This goes for both sides of the coin.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
As an MMO, it has its good and bad points. As an Elder Scrolls game, it misses way more than it hits.
Take that as you will.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Yes it is, it is an integral part of Elder Scrolls MMO's and the density needs to match, as you say a stones throw away from something else. That is one of main selling points of the franchise and to neglect it is to do the IP an injustice. Is it so hard to worry about an item that has been shown to be relatively neglected? I think not, so instead of waiting around, I choose to voice my opinion to ensure this gets addressed.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I agree with you that there needs to be a lot of POIs, but you really need to be a little more realistic regarding your comparisons between a single player game and a online one. Since unlike Skyrim there willl be leveled areas, its impossible for it to be as free roaming as Skyrim. I actually prefer leveled areas as oppossed to everything leveling up with you which I think breaks immersion, though Skyrim did a much better job at it than Oblivion where I had to heavily mod the game. I think instead of comparing it to Skyrim, you'd perhaps be a little more satisfied if you compare it to most other available themeparks which feel in most cases like narrow corridors. If the areas that allow you to roam within a reasonable level that you are at knowing you can't just roam anywhere or you will die are still open feeling, I'll be a happy camper. SWTOR was too corridor like, EQ2 and AOC zones loaders were horrible since to me at least the zones felt small, WOW and LOTOR felt a little more open than those games, Vanguard was the most open but that game was a technical mess and paid the price for that.
There Is Always Hope!
Can I buy a house ?
No
Can I steal everything from every house in the world and furnish my own ?
No
Can I install thousands of mods to tweak and improve the game to make it perfect just for me?
No
In 7 years time can I install the hundreds of mesh graphics animation and sound improvements that a dedicated fanbase has created to make it look as good as the best out there ?
I don't think so.
Everything you stated in your post is shallow at best but I guess some will be fooled
Well to be fair, I heard each of the betas where vastly different with many changes. I suppose that is why they are trying to prevent leaks. What they try in the beta may not even be in the finished product.
Course, it really also depends on what one likes in their games. I agree with you, I also am looking for a game that brings back the RPG in MMORPG. However, my expectations are not too high, and even if ESO isn't that game, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy it.
The problem I find is everyone is acting like ESO is going to be a bad game, but that is only because they are comparing it to their own expectations of what they want it to be. I already realized the game may not be exactly like the elder scrolls I am used to, but that doesn't mean I need to be a negative grumpy person to everyone about it which seems to be the thing here to do. That also will not automatically make it a bad game either.
The other thing people need to realize is that an opinion is an opinion. As you said it works on both sides. No one can possible win an argument like this, however, a person CAN be mature enough to know when their opinion isn't needed any longer.
Take that as you will. (Joining in on the fad XD)
If this was circa 2004 I would agree with you 100% but since the release of that "other well known mega successful MMO" every company has been trying to reach that zenith with many a failure along the way. The MMO genre has seen fail after fail and it seems that none of these companies want to understand why their games failed to live up to their expectations. Because of this there has been massive stagflation in the genre which has led to this epidemic of mediocrity. If more developers would look at some of the negativity surrounding their game and not live like ostriches with their heads stuck In the sand the genre might just break out of it's funk. Sadly it isn't going to be with this game. That is something I respectfully encourage you to bank on.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Don't care what you think. I am very well aware of how the genre has been going. Still doesn't really change what I said. If you want your voice to be heard go to the developers, not us. THEN you would have a point. But really people complaining HERE, doesn't do jack. It's pointless. Unless you can point out to me an actual good reason. Do you think the developers come here and read this forum?
Also, I am inclined to ask, what you think a game needs to be in order to get out of this so called funk? The reason I ask, is because I bet many people would disagree with you in certain areas. Everyone has there own so called idea of what a perfect MMO would be, and really not everyone will agree with that vision. I have come to the conclusion the problem isn't just the genre, the developers, or the games. I personally think it's a lot to do with the players and the current payment models as well.
[mod edit] To answer the red outlined above I will make a list of things I think an MMO need to provide longevity and sustainability:
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
When I think about what this MMO could have been and the direction they decided to take it, I am torn between supporting them and showing my disdain for them.
This is why I will not pay for the game. I may eventually play it, but I'll wait and hope TES VI does not go further down the Skyrim road.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Yes because after Skyrim and the expansions what TES fans really want is a dumbed down WoW version of that with a dumbed down combat and class system.... I'm sure that's what they want, in fact I know it!
~ Sarcasm over
I most certainly can understand this and you make a good point.
Maybe but for me I do not see how they are doing the TES series a disservice with TESO. So many people think they should have made it exactly as the single player games but that would have made one mess of an MMO and others think that TES is a sandbox when it isnt. With each release the TES SP games have gotten simpler and simpler anyway and really do not resemble the series even from Morrowind and Morrowind from Arena!