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Violence in Games (Movies and Comics)
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
Since I am lazy, I didnt write but speak. 
Let me know your throughts on the topic.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
yes because it can be a great enjoyable experience, and a stress reliever. For those who can distinguish fantasy and reality.
No because teens and young adults become desensitized, by violence and not always but usually it results in a conduct disorder. Or some violent tendencies/personality changes.
Well Elikal, I listened to most of it, but at 34 minutes, it's quite a hefty amount of time to dedicate to a topic which is really just a feeling. So I may be jumping to conclusions about your overall point outside of "are the more violent/savage/visceral than they used to be?" Which I would be inclined to answer yes for the most part, though even that is more of a matter of technological advancement rather than concept.
So the conclusion I may be jumping to is that you have any belief that there is a correlation between real life violence and video games or that video games evoke violence in the general populace. And I'm going to have to say no. That's a definite no.
There simply isn't data supporting that claim. Tens of millions of people play violent video games everyday, if there were a correlation between video game violence and real life acts - we would see a tremendous spike in crime rates.
While I don't have any evidence suggesting this, it might not be a stretch to say that people who do play video games actually tend to have a lower participation in violent crime than other groups. I only say this with any amount of confidence because there is a barrier to entry and luxury associated with video games. Crime is generally committed by those will little or no means, not by spoiled first world nerds who get their jollies shooting or chopping up baddies in video games. They also take time which means less time spent in the actual world with fewer opportunities to participate in spur of the moment crime. And lastly, a greater chance that a gamer has virtual friends instead of real life ones who might encourage criminal behavior. Yes, there are some assumptions, but based on a certain understanding of gaming culture.
I mean, look at us. We play violent video games, but here we are posting on an internet forum about them. Criminals probably don't spend much time doing this.
And various studies show the majority of violent crimes are linked low wages and unemployment.
There is a certain level of realism and realistic violence that I can personally endure before I would say a game is too much. Stylized aesthetics and imaginary worlds/enemies make it something I can accept. I can shoot zombies and aliens all day long and not care. I can throw fireballs at dragons all day and not care. But a game like Manhunt was not for me. I don't get my kicks brutally murdering realistic looking humans. Even when it comes to shooters there has to be an element of "game" to it.
Counter strike never feels violent, it always feels like a game, matches, points, people swiping the air with their knife while they run, it's just not serious enough despite being about terrorists vs counter-terrorists and having fairly realistic graphics.
Crysis attempts realism as well, but it too never feels realistically violent. The suit, the powers, and the gamey feel keep it from crossing that threshold.
Anyway, that's wot I think.
It isn't safe anywhere now.
I went to an orchestra recital.
There was far too much sax and violins.
I don't think violent games and movies cause crime.
But I am quite sure the opposite relation is true: our society changed and THAT caused our entertainment to change. And what does that signify? I wonder. That is the thing I am worried about. Not that someone goes shooting people because he watchted too many violent movies, that's bollox. But our entertainment DOES show us something about our society, whatever that may be.
Besides, as consumer, I see that trend of more detailled violence and more gloomy, nihilistic settings, and I am unsettled and sometimes appalled the the level, amount and context of violence today. And I think this is a moment where we, the consumes should step back and look at the changes, whatever our stance then may be.
Sorry for so much rambling lol. XD
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
What I find a bit backwards is that in America people find it somewhat acceptable for gun violence, allowing kids to shoot guns, hunt, kill you name it and its in video games as well but no nudity... and nudity isn't acceptable. People go ape if there is nudity because they think its degrading and not so much for gun violence... a lot of people think its their god given right to own a gun and shoot people for what ever reason.
Maybe I misunderstand, I'm English and over here our gun laws and way of life is different.
What do you folks think?
there is more violence in real life ..video game's only mirror it....and if the parent's can't educate the kids on the difference between fantasy and reality...then the parents are just as screwed up as the kids...i personally say if violence in comic movies or games is called ..the so be it...but know the difference between the two...thats whats seperates your wacko's from your gamer.
I'm not really a fan of violence in media. I've been seeing more and more of it now, and for me it's worrying how desensitized people are towards it. "Separate fantasy from reality" is a poor argument since a lot of this media has the purpose to immerse you into it. And people get immersed into it and still don't care, and I find that concerning.
Especially there's a really strong disconnect between reality and media-based realitification. People watch really violent stuff and say that it's realistic, but they have never encountered it on their own skin, so they don't have any empathy towards it or an understanding of why it's terrible.
I don't know where it started but I am not a fan of the trend at all. I stay away from violent stuff, personally, especially when it's done in an attempt to be super realistic. Games like Serious Sam I don't care and horror games I don't care, but it seeped into a lot of other genres where it doesn't belong.
I saw some violent movies and games when I was a kid, but it was a different sort because half the time it was low poly and pixelated, and the other half it was satirical and silly, not realistic.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
No, it's a fine discussion, no rambling.
Though I will say that I don't believe human civilization has become more accepting of violence. I'd say the opposite is true. People are more reluctant to accept real violence even though they happily enjoy imaginary violence.
Human history is a bloody one and a quick walk into a museum would show the various torture devices used not that long ago. When was the last time someone was put on the rack? Or flayed alive? Public execution by burning? Stockades?
People solved their difference via duels! Can you imagine your co-worker being upset with you and challenging you to a duel at lunchtime? Violence is less common and more recorded and reported than ever before.
I think the one thing that has changed in our lifetime is our awareness of how much violence exists.
When someone in the military commits rape, it often finds its way onto international media. It used to just be part and parcel of the "spoils of war", it was actually expected that rape would occur. We live in a time where rape is not tolerated and therefore when we hear a case of it, people get rightfully upset.
So violence is quite prevalent in various mediums, but I think humanity is less accepting of it than ever before. In the US violent crime is at an all time low, it's dropped by 17% in the last decade alone. But reporting of crime and well . . . of everything has skyrocketed with the invention of the 24 hour news cycle and the ubiquity of the internet.
Every morning you can wake up and go to whatever news source you prefer and find dozens of stories about violent crime, but the crime rate is down! Reporting rate is way up. News outlets need content and they take everything they can get. 20 years ago you got a little bit of news in the paper, maybe on TV and radio. But that's it. And when something happened, they moved on. But now a lacrosse player rapes a cheerleader and it's national news for a month.
The tl;dr variant:
my main points are:
- the detail of gore, mutilation has excessively grown. See Far Cry 3. Broken thumbs, shark teeth in hands, tigers at your arm. See any shooter game of the last ~5 years.
- does the detailled shown violence add to the drama? No. Then why is it there? What does it signify that we need to SEE all the tortured details? Compare the torture of Han Solo in Empire Strikes Back with the torture scene in Game of Thrones. Was Han Solos fate less dramatic because we didn't SEE the torture? I say, no. Then why do we see so much gore and violence?
- so many games today circle around War on Terror and Terrorism. Why do so many games let us replay such gloomy, dark present day / real life / politics situation? Final Fantasy was about war and evil too, but it wasn't a mirror of our world's troubles. So why do game so much show our real world issues, why are they set in a "realistic" present day scenario instead of a "fantasy" setting, like "Dune" or "Star Trek"?
- essentially all heroes and stories are about broken heroes in gloomy, nihilistic "Blade Runner"-like realities, where is no hope, no optimism and most important no humor. Compare old Batman vs new Batman, old Star Wars vs New Star Wars asf. All got WAY more serious and dark. Again why? I didn't feel the old were less dramatic.
- in the past dark and violent was a niche, not it is sort of a mainstream. Once games and movie like Friday the 13th were "forbidden" movies/games, sort of sold under the table and spoken about in hushed whisper. Now we seem to top more violence shown with even more violence show. How did we get so thick skinned? Again, does it have to be even more, and where will that lead in the rise in violence shown continues?
Those were/are the questions about gaming in my mind.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
5 people dieing in a war zone is big news now days. 30,000+ people dieing in a war zone was big news in the 60s-70s how many people died in WWII all told ? over a million from all sides ? the farther back you go the worse it gets as far as violence being accepted as just part of life.
I think if anything violence in games has only made us more aware of it and how unacceptable it is. People seem to be fine shooting each other in games and getting that fix but still being very outspoken against it when it comes to real life.I think we all know people have a violent side to them but once you can get that fix in a virtual environment they really don't want it in their real life.
Agree
Probably the best blog I've read on videogame violence is one called On Ultraviolence in video games:
http://www.whatgamesare.com/2012/08/on-ultraviolence-in-games-and-learning-the-lessons-of-porn.html
It ought to be on everyone's list who is interested in this issue. My concern about violence in videogames isn't that it is too realistic. In fact, quite the opposite. Videogame violence--and violence in the media generally--is too sensationalized. It is what Baudrillard would call "hyperreal," or more real than real.
Now my problem with violent video games is that it has gotten so over the top, there ain't anything that can shock us anymore. Things that ought to be shocking to us just ain't all that shocking. Kratos decapitating zombies with 6' tall blood spurts shooting out of their bodies? *Yawn*...guess we ought to make them 7' in the next sequel, shouldn't we? Does this have effects outside of the game, like making people more violent? I don't know, but I would think that yawning at images of exploding heads isn't what the game developers, or society as a whole, really wants...if only because it makes people more immune to things that ought to be shocking.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Violence in games and movies can actually be beneficial because it's a place where we can release our human instinct of aggression.
so true.. and we are less prone to violence than our ancestors used to be and we are becoming much less violent.
I'm not sure we are. Evidence of this can be seen in PvP game forums. You get more nastiness there, more name calling there. Often, you'll see the game violence taken to the next level, through public shaming. Surely, we'd expect the candor of the games to be better and more friendly if the violent games create a catharsis, wouldn't we?
Now I'm not saying the violent video games cause violence, per se, but I certainly don't think they alleviate violent tendencies.
I think whatever violent tendencies we have in our society are repressed better, but not released better. We have more ways than ever to hurt people through words, thanks to the internet, and fewer ways than ever to respond to insults. You used to have dueling, but this was taken away from us. Fistfights, once tolerated, can now mess up someone's life and finances to the point that they are, for the most part, banned as a way for settling matters of honor. And the internet? Video games? Pfft...that doesn't solve anything. If it did, we'd have no flamewars.
In fact, I'd argue that, in our time, we have more ways to do more violence to one another--even people we don't know (especially people we don't know)--than ever before in history. It's just that the violence is mostly petty and solves nothing; internet insults, callous indifference, attacks against pride, demeaning and cruel behavior as common business.
I said "mostly," because the petty violence we do to each other is punctuated by acts that are so savage, heinous and indifferent that it boggles the imagination: your Columbines, your Aurora COs, your Fort Hoods and your Sandy Hooks...not to mention the stories we hardly hear about in areas and neighborhoods we've simply forgotten about, like Canton, NJ or Detroit.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Wow, thanks for the link! It was really an enlightning article, and I fully agreed with it.
I wonder why game developers so rarely realize that following the bigger/better/faster/harder route essentially kills them? I mean, they could go the route to make the storytelling better, or back to more immersive worlds? *gasp* Yea, I know... what an absurd idea.
I have been a Batman comic reader for years, and I saw the same development in comics as the author describes in games. Recently on Comixology I saw a new Batman series called "Batman 66", based on the OLD style, and god, I didn't have so much fun with a comic before in a long time! It was old fashioned, new made, and just... fun! And I didn't have poked out eyeballs, beating hearts animations or detailled surgery depictions!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
It'll kill the industry...eventually...but it is often the only thing a mediocre game can do to win an audience.
And there was no more mediocre game in the old coin-op industry than the original Mortal Kombat. This was--by any measure--a sub standard fighting game: a 2D button masher with very little going for it, design-wise. It had bad, clunky animation. The gameplay was uninspired; very few moves or technical combos. The graphics were sub-par, compared to games like Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter. They used old Bruce Lee rips and skimped on everything...passing off bad reskins as full-fledged characters.
So how do you make a game in one of the most competitive genres of coin-ops stand out, when it has nothing going for it? You go for the gutter: gratuitous violence.
People didn't play Mortal Kombat for the strategic aspect. They didn't play for the multitude of interesting characters. Heck, they didn't even play for the graphics. They played to hear the "finish him" and see sub-zero rip Johnny Cage's head and spinal column off (saying nothing of the fact that it would be physiologically impossible for anyone to do that without the head popping off first).
And so, a bad game--one that would have been shoveled into the dustbin of gaming lore--became the most popular gaming franchise of all time, spawning numerous sequels across many platforms, feature films, a wealth of merchandise, and a place in gaming history.
So what does this teach the industry? If you want to duplicate Mortal Kombat's success, you have to duplicate Mortal Kombat's lessons: that even bad games can succeed when they do violence better than the next guy.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
http://www.stayinthelight.org