It's ridiculous to me that some are really justifying the changing fundamental game play principles like it's okay. As if it happens all the time and we should just accept that...?
It's ridiculous to me that some are really justifying the changing fundamental game play principles like it's okay. As if it happens all the time and we should just accept that...?
How did the introduction of Ascended gear affect your gameplay?
Seems to me like they wrangled everyone in by saying their game was going to be a next generation MMO, and then in reality it wasn't, and then now they are even trying to make it more and more like the wow clones.
Money makes people do strange things... anet obviously values money over their vision... and their early talk about being content with a moderate sized loyal fanbase, was all bogus, but we knew that when mike obrien started claiming the game wanted to be more successful than wow.
They said the gear level will keep on going till legendary then no more BUT who knows how many tiers of gear there is between the two?
At the start no one knew about ascended but it was added between exotic and legendary. (I just hope they don't make a lot more tiers in between)
This
They should focus on their content instead of starting the traditional gear threadmill.
Good for the elitists when they regularly get new shinies to show off - I just want to play the game without being at a disadvantage.
I don't understand this mentality. If the gear doesn't affect PVP stats, and is only PVE. Why do you care if one person has better gear than you? How EXACTLY does that put YOU at a disadvantage? Please, explain.
The simple fact is its just a bunch of jealousy based robin hood bullshit. People like you are angry that they dont have the time, wherewithall or just shssr gall to put into the game to obtain the better items, so instead of being an adult and either not caring because it doesnt affect you, or respecting those people for their acheivements, instead you pull the "woe is me" card and call them elitists and act butt hurt and jealous
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I can’t stand any kind of scripted story content, let alone personal story content in MMOs, that’s not why I play them and I believe is counter intuitive to how mmos are supposed to be. They are community based games.. not single player story lines.
Hmmm..... seeing personal story is only 1 of the options in the game with WvW, pvp, world content and much more being community based I do not understand why so many focus on the personal story like it is the only thing to do in GW2!?!
I applaud Anet for putting forth an effort to NOT do the same thing as all other MMOs.
How about some WvW skins, or WvW legendaries? Re-Do the WvW Borderlands to give more variety, or perhaps "living" wvw worlds that change like every 2 weeks or so...like the "living temporary content".
I need more carrots to chase after darnit!
-----
I have been enjoying the "living world" content though. Southsun Survival is so much fun, well I love it.
I wouldn't mind new "mini-games" being introduced all the time like they have been, that part has been great!
(but I don't raid much or do many dungeons, I am mainly a WvW-er, or do the "living world" mini-games, haha.)
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
People like to have something to work towards and earn. While its fine to have a game focused on playing for 'fun', I feel GW2 really isn't all that special of a game on that end with 'meh' combat not really being able to carry the fun factor out as much as people like it to. Temporary events just further the feeling of 'pointlessness' I feel and just diminishes a sense of achievement at all in the game as people are desperate to have something of value to show for playing.
Still, I don't nessarily feel it HAS to do what they are trying to do either, I feel they could find ways to over-come its weaknesses. People want more to be available for them since they have nothing to really 'earn' which ends up making it a giant loop of pain. I feel they could of found ways to change things up without taking away that 'uber casual' playstyle, even without needing to rely on fixing the issues the game has with its gameplay.
So yes and no I say. Yes for the fact the game I feel HEAVILY needs something (we all know I feel GW2 is highly over-rated, not a shocker there) and no in the fact that those who do love the game are now having detials added that are contrary to the original plans those fans might of liked, without trying to explore finding ways that could of solved the issue differently.
if they would have done WvW correctly then i would still be playing. the problem isn't with lack of gear grind as (im sure) some dumbass exec seems to think, it is with a lack of any meaning to any part of the game, as well as a half-assedly thrown together pvp area that just encourages zerging and leaves little room for strategy or planning.
Recently ANet's game director Colin Johanson said that GW2 is going to change from their original vision and 'Change Course'.
More permanent over temporal content, more personal stories and more focus on loot (including the higher end Legendary)
GW2 is going down the traditional MMO route of 'More gear' which is fine for some (I am for this change personally) while some of the more 'traditionalist' crying foul on how ANet betrayed them.
Which side do you fall under?
Will this 'course correction' entice you back if you left?
Will this 'course correction' push you away?
For me, and the friends I play with, this game is a hair short of a full fledged MMO. It's just the little things that hold it back, the little things that even some indie games get right.
I can't understand why they thought temporary content would suffice in the first place. This game has a strong core - its open world, dungeons, jumping puzzles, and its hallmark combat system. It just needs more areas to apply it to - figuratively and literally. Personally, I'm 100% supportive of these changes, and I'd want more if possible.
They barely talk about gear and when they do, it's about aesthetics. More permanent LS content doesn't really count as a course correction, since LS content was always meant to be somewhat permanent, was not even in the game originally and was always advertized as an experiment of sorts.
Where are people getting idea that GW2 is introducing a gear treadmill? That quote from Colin doesn't say there will be. I might need to re-read it over and over again.
... the whole quote actually said that they're just FINISHING rolling out Ascended (Something that they've mentioned forever. They're not adding another tier, they're just finishing up the one tier they did add because people seemed to think exotics were too fast.), and then they're rolling out horizontal progression.
So yes. I agree with that. I am actually pretty happy about them switching to horizontal progression and having you search out skills. That sounds good to me.
I still love the core game, but IMO the game took a wrong turn as we entered 2013 and the slight course corrections detailed in the recent state of the game update from Colin don't do much to get the game back on course.
I don't know if former lead game director Eric Flannum has totally left ANet, or if he's in stealth mode working on their "undisclosed long term project", but one thing is clear to me, Colin was not the person to take his place.
After launch, there was a clearly marked expressway to building on what made the game a success, but Colin apparently decided to take a scenic shortcut that has seen ANet completely squander loads of potential and largely waste a year's worth of post launch development.
Shortly after launch, the stated strategy was to include a doubling or tripling the number of Dynamic Events across the game world. That, Colin, is actually how you make an MMO focused on Dynamic Content a "Living World", by constantly adding and altering Dynamic Content so that the game feels like it is always changing.
Instead we've gotten a lot of temporary fluff content that's nothing short of an embarrassment for the studio that created this amazing game. I enjoy temporary Holiday content in MMOs, a few times a year. Now, with GW2, we have the equivalent every two weeks. What was once fun and special has now just become a sickening overload of gimmicky crap.
In the latest look forward, Colin did provide brief lip service to the idea of new world DEs, but when you get to the heart of the document where they provide more detail, there's nothing.
How about instead of four teams working on pushing gimmicks at us every two weeks, you have four teams pushing new Dynamic Events every two weeks and save the gimmicks for an occasional holiday event?
TLDR;
Arenanet spent five years creating a massive game world and bringing it alive with dynamic content. Rather than evolving those Dynamic Events so that the world would always be a reflection of an evolving story, with each zone showing progression of it's own unique story, we've had a year wasted on mostly temporary, mostly gimmicky fluff content that has drawn people out of the now static game world.
I can't imagine a bigger waste of development resources than we have seen over what is closing in on a full year since the launch of the game.
I really hope there is a full expansion of the game being worked on behind the scenes. An expansion that can do justice to the incredible game that launched last August. IMO, it's probably the only thing that has any chance to get this game back on track, as Colin continues to squander studio resources on "content" that does little good for the future of the game.
Originally posted by observer Where are people getting idea that GW2 is introducing a gear treadmill? That quote from Colin doesn't say there will be. I might need to re-read it over and over again.
No idea on the 'gear treadmill'. It certainly wasn't something I said in the original post.
I can kinda see where people might get that perception though.
Anet kinda leaves that door open and mentions the word gear / legendary / ways to obtain gear etc a lot. It would be reasonable to say there was an increased focus on 'gear' from Anet in that blog-post and the interviews done afterwards.
Reaction to this thread is something similar to what I'm seeing around my group of friends that still play this game. Some like it and some don't.
Thankfully none of my RL friends are crazy enough to call Anet 'betrayers' / 'sell outs'; GW2 official forum posters I'm looking at you!
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
There is no treadmill, and certainly nothing "traditional" about it. Ascended stats will be the highest and were added for a much needed time sink between exotics and legendary.
And you can guarantee that they will not add any higher tiers than Ascended?
they will, already plan to. they also plan to do it like Asheron's Call, which is now on tier 8 13 years later. i believe they said they want to do a new tier every two years thereabouts.
There is no treadmill, and certainly nothing "traditional" about it. Ascended stats will be the highest and were added for a much needed time sink between exotics and legendary.
And you can guarantee that they will not add any higher tiers than Ascended?
they will, already plan to. they also plan to do it like Asheron's Call, which is now on tier 8 13 years later. i believe they said they want to do a new tier every two years thereabouts.
This is actually a lie. They may add more ascended gear with different skins or stat compilations but there is no intent to add more tiers. One of the core concepts of the progression is to not make all your prior work (for example acquiring ascended gear) invalidated by more powerful stuff.
as proof. The only gear-related question in that interview is "Is more race-specific gear on the agenda?" and it's entirely about visuals. So... do you have an actual source or are you just making things up?
Recently ANet's game director Colin Johanson said that GW2 is going to change from their original vision and 'Change Course'.
More permanent over temporal content, more personal stories and more focus on loot (including the higher end Legendary)
GW2 is going down the traditional MMO route of 'More gear' which is fine for some (I am for this change personally) while some of the more 'traditionalist' crying foul on how ANet betrayed them.
Which side do you fall under?
Will this 'course correction' entice you back if you left?
Will this 'course correction' push you away?
I like two out of the three things mentioned. I would like to see more high lvl permanent content and I am not talking about another dungeon. I also think that the personal story is severely lacking. One thing I liked in Guild Wars 1 was that when you reached max lvl, the story was far from over. And there were a lot more areas to discover.
As for more gear. This depends. I am not interested in vertical stats progression with gear. That just introduces a treadmill that I get bored with very fast. But just different looking sets are always fine with me.
I don't know if this will be enough to add longevity for me though. Another main issue I have with this game is how I find the combat kind of boring after a while. It has to do with lack of character skill customisation I think, The trait system is just boring and it feels as if character progression is stretched out over too many lvls. The game needs more horizontal progression I think.
I still love the core game, but IMO the game took a wrong turn as we entered 2013 and the slight course corrections detailed in the recent state of the game update from Colin don't do much to get the game back on course.
I don't know if former lead game director Eric Flannum has totally left ANet, or if he's in stealth mode working on their "undisclosed long term project", but one thing is clear to me, Colin was not the person to take his place.
After launch, there was a clearly marked expressway to building on what made the game a success, but Colin apparently decided to take a scenic shortcut that has seen ANet completely squander loads of potential and largely waste a year's worth of post launch development.
Shortly after launch, the stated strategy was to include a doubling or tripling the number of Dynamic Events across the game world. That, Colin, is actually how you make an MMO focused on Dynamic Content a "Living World", by constantly adding and altering Dynamic Content so that the game feels like it is always changing.
Instead we've gotten a lot of temporary fluff content that's nothing short of an embarrassment for the studio that created this amazing game. I enjoy temporary Holiday content in MMOs, a few times a year. Now, with GW2, we have the equivalent every two weeks. What was once fun and special has now just become a sickening overload of gimmicky crap.
In the latest look forward, Colin did provide brief lip service to the idea of new world DEs, but when you get to the heart of the document where they provide more detail, there's nothing.
How about instead of four teams working on pushing gimmicks at us every two weeks, you have four teams pushing new Dynamic Events every two weeks and save the gimmicks for an occasional holiday event?
TLDR;
Arenanet spent five years creating a massive game world and bringing it alive with dynamic content. Rather than evolving those Dynamic Events so that the world would always be a reflection of an evolving story, with each zone showing progression of it's own unique story, we've had a year wasted on mostly temporary, mostly gimmicky fluff content that has drawn people out of the now static game world.
I can't imagine a bigger waste of development resources than we have seen over what is closing in on a full year since the launch of the game.
I really hope there is a full expansion of the game being worked on behind the scenes. An expansion that can do justice to the incredible game that launched last August. IMO, it's probably the only thing that has any chance to get this game back on track, as Colin continues to squander studio resources on "content" that does little good for the future of the game.
I agree. GW2, in my opinion, was doing great with the first release of Southsun Cove. They were actually adding permanent content, and it was an actual special event that added onto the current world. Then came the Living Story, which ignored the core game that we got from launch. I can understand holiday events, which should be temporary, but everything else took a back seat to it. DEs, Personal Story, Meta-events, etc., were all ignored, in favor of Living Story content. It's content that doesn't change the world, instead it adds content, then takes it away. When Colin first mentioned Living Story, i thought the current zones would be getting changed, and more dynamic/meta events would appear. This isn't what happened though.
Comments
It's ridiculous to me that some are really justifying the changing fundamental game play principles like it's okay. As if it happens all the time and we should just accept that...?
How did the introduction of Ascended gear affect your gameplay?
exaclty
where are the skills? dual class? these features made GW1 unique, Gw2 is not
mesmer in GW1 = awesome, in GW2 = meh ..... same for necromancer
the game is still fun to play but for how long
Seems to me like they wrangled everyone in by saying their game was going to be a next generation MMO, and then in reality it wasn't, and then now they are even trying to make it more and more like the wow clones.
Money makes people do strange things... anet obviously values money over their vision... and their early talk about being content with a moderate sized loyal fanbase, was all bogus, but we knew that when mike obrien started claiming the game wanted to be more successful than wow.
I don't understand this mentality. If the gear doesn't affect PVP stats, and is only PVE. Why do you care if one person has better gear than you? How EXACTLY does that put YOU at a disadvantage? Please, explain.
The simple fact is its just a bunch of jealousy based robin hood bullshit. People like you are angry that they dont have the time, wherewithall or just shssr gall to put into the game to obtain the better items, so instead of being an adult and either not caring because it doesnt affect you, or respecting those people for their acheivements, instead you pull the "woe is me" card and call them elitists and act butt hurt and jealous
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Hmmm..... seeing personal story is only 1 of the options in the game with WvW, pvp, world content and much more being community based I do not understand why so many focus on the personal story like it is the only thing to do in GW2!?!
I applaud Anet for putting forth an effort to NOT do the same thing as all other MMOs.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/28/guild-wars-2-living-story-to-get-more-serious-more-permanent/
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
They need more WvW stuff!
How about some WvW skins, or WvW legendaries? Re-Do the WvW Borderlands to give more variety, or perhaps "living" wvw worlds that change like every 2 weeks or so...like the "living temporary content".
I need more carrots to chase after darnit!
-----
I have been enjoying the "living world" content though. Southsun Survival is so much fun, well I love it.
I wouldn't mind new "mini-games" being introduced all the time like they have been, that part has been great!
(but I don't raid much or do many dungeons, I am mainly a WvW-er, or do the "living world" mini-games, haha.)
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
People like to have something to work towards and earn. While its fine to have a game focused on playing for 'fun', I feel GW2 really isn't all that special of a game on that end with 'meh' combat not really being able to carry the fun factor out as much as people like it to. Temporary events just further the feeling of 'pointlessness' I feel and just diminishes a sense of achievement at all in the game as people are desperate to have something of value to show for playing.
Still, I don't nessarily feel it HAS to do what they are trying to do either, I feel they could find ways to over-come its weaknesses. People want more to be available for them since they have nothing to really 'earn' which ends up making it a giant loop of pain. I feel they could of found ways to change things up without taking away that 'uber casual' playstyle, even without needing to rely on fixing the issues the game has with its gameplay.
So yes and no I say. Yes for the fact the game I feel HEAVILY needs something (we all know I feel GW2 is highly over-rated, not a shocker there) and no in the fact that those who do love the game are now having detials added that are contrary to the original plans those fans might of liked, without trying to explore finding ways that could of solved the issue differently.
For me, and the friends I play with, this game is a hair short of a full fledged MMO. It's just the little things that hold it back, the little things that even some indie games get right.
I can't understand why they thought temporary content would suffice in the first place. This game has a strong core - its open world, dungeons, jumping puzzles, and its hallmark combat system. It just needs more areas to apply it to - figuratively and literally. Personally, I'm 100% supportive of these changes, and I'd want more if possible.
They barely talk about gear and when they do, it's about aesthetics. More permanent LS content doesn't really count as a course correction, since LS content was always meant to be somewhat permanent, was not even in the game originally and was always advertized as an experiment of sorts.
If you want to debate that Anet lied in that interview, raise a separate thread.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
... the whole quote actually said that they're just FINISHING rolling out Ascended (Something that they've mentioned forever. They're not adding another tier, they're just finishing up the one tier they did add because people seemed to think exotics were too fast.), and then they're rolling out horizontal progression.
So yes. I agree with that. I am actually pretty happy about them switching to horizontal progression and having you search out skills. That sounds good to me.
I still love the core game, but IMO the game took a wrong turn as we entered 2013 and the slight course corrections detailed in the recent state of the game update from Colin don't do much to get the game back on course.
I don't know if former lead game director Eric Flannum has totally left ANet, or if he's in stealth mode working on their "undisclosed long term project", but one thing is clear to me, Colin was not the person to take his place.
After launch, there was a clearly marked expressway to building on what made the game a success, but Colin apparently decided to take a scenic shortcut that has seen ANet completely squander loads of potential and largely waste a year's worth of post launch development.
Shortly after launch, the stated strategy was to include a doubling or tripling the number of Dynamic Events across the game world. That, Colin, is actually how you make an MMO focused on Dynamic Content a "Living World", by constantly adding and altering Dynamic Content so that the game feels like it is always changing.
Instead we've gotten a lot of temporary fluff content that's nothing short of an embarrassment for the studio that created this amazing game. I enjoy temporary Holiday content in MMOs, a few times a year. Now, with GW2, we have the equivalent every two weeks. What was once fun and special has now just become a sickening overload of gimmicky crap.
In the latest look forward, Colin did provide brief lip service to the idea of new world DEs, but when you get to the heart of the document where they provide more detail, there's nothing.
How about instead of four teams working on pushing gimmicks at us every two weeks, you have four teams pushing new Dynamic Events every two weeks and save the gimmicks for an occasional holiday event?
TLDR;
Arenanet spent five years creating a massive game world and bringing it alive with dynamic content. Rather than evolving those Dynamic Events so that the world would always be a reflection of an evolving story, with each zone showing progression of it's own unique story, we've had a year wasted on mostly temporary, mostly gimmicky fluff content that has drawn people out of the now static game world.
I can't imagine a bigger waste of development resources than we have seen over what is closing in on a full year since the launch of the game.
I really hope there is a full expansion of the game being worked on behind the scenes. An expansion that can do justice to the incredible game that launched last August. IMO, it's probably the only thing that has any chance to get this game back on track, as Colin continues to squander studio resources on "content" that does little good for the future of the game.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
No idea on the 'gear treadmill'. It certainly wasn't something I said in the original post.
I can kinda see where people might get that perception though.
Anet kinda leaves that door open and mentions the word gear / legendary / ways to obtain gear etc a lot. It would be reasonable to say there was an increased focus on 'gear' from Anet in that blog-post and the interviews done afterwards.
Reaction to this thread is something similar to what I'm seeing around my group of friends that still play this game. Some like it and some don't.
Thankfully none of my RL friends are crazy enough to call Anet 'betrayers' / 'sell outs'; GW2 official forum posters I'm looking at you!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Definitely needed course correction.
GW2 was simply running low of reasons to keep playing.
Now I only wish they add more skills, and skill collecting
You know that's exactly one of the things they said they're doing, yes?
Oderint, dum metuant.
they will, already plan to. they also plan to do it like Asheron's Call, which is now on tier 8 13 years later. i believe they said they want to do a new tier every two years thereabouts.
This is actually a lie. They may add more ascended gear with different skins or stat compilations but there is no intent to add more tiers. One of the core concepts of the progression is to not make all your prior work (for example acquiring ascended gear) invalidated by more powerful stuff.
Oderint, dum metuant.
You're claiming that "GW2 is going down the traditional MMO route of 'More gear'" and using a summary of this interview
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/colin-johanson-talks-dungeons-dragons-and-chairs
as proof. The only gear-related question in that interview is "Is more race-specific gear on the agenda?" and it's entirely about visuals. So... do you have an actual source or are you just making things up?
I like two out of the three things mentioned. I would like to see more high lvl permanent content and I am not talking about another dungeon. I also think that the personal story is severely lacking. One thing I liked in Guild Wars 1 was that when you reached max lvl, the story was far from over. And there were a lot more areas to discover.
As for more gear. This depends. I am not interested in vertical stats progression with gear. That just introduces a treadmill that I get bored with very fast. But just different looking sets are always fine with me.
I don't know if this will be enough to add longevity for me though. Another main issue I have with this game is how I find the combat kind of boring after a while. It has to do with lack of character skill customisation I think, The trait system is just boring and it feels as if character progression is stretched out over too many lvls. The game needs more horizontal progression I think.
I agree. GW2, in my opinion, was doing great with the first release of Southsun Cove. They were actually adding permanent content, and it was an actual special event that added onto the current world. Then came the Living Story, which ignored the core game that we got from launch. I can understand holiday events, which should be temporary, but everything else took a back seat to it. DEs, Personal Story, Meta-events, etc., were all ignored, in favor of Living Story content. It's content that doesn't change the world, instead it adds content, then takes it away. When Colin first mentioned Living Story, i thought the current zones would be getting changed, and more dynamic/meta events would appear. This isn't what happened though.