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EQN is what GWL should have been
aSynchro
Member UncommonPosts: 194
While reading EQN news it strikes me how ArenaNet was affraid to move just a little bit further from the WoW model.
_ They decide to keep levels while at the same time building a full scalling world: why that ? its only frustrate new players as they can't freely explore or join higher level friends. Why not just remove level and have a skill based progression ?
_ They replace quests with dynamic events: awesome ! But they didn't give them enought long term consequences: the camp you save will fall a few hours later, and the big DE are all linked in the same way, no randomness.
_ They create a beautiful world, but it's only on the surface: the IA is very limited, the NPC will always react in the same way etc.
_ They drop the trinity (good or bad, so far i like it but i understand some don't), but keep a very strict class system: your ranger can't mix some mesmer or engineer abilities for example.
_ They have a weapon system that could allow very complex encounters, for example pick specific items on the ground for very specific actions against a boss, but they choose to have 99% of the boss just a zerg fight with everyone circling around. If you compare it with WoW raids, with most of bosses who have tens of abilities to deal with in a organised way, it's a big let down.
_ Also, they keep the themepark structure, with very shallow crafting system and to be honest, not much to do beside combat. Maybe this will improve with the musical instrument, the futur guild house etc. But GW2 will never be a sandbox. The living story is the pinacle of this: instead of having players decided of their futur, together and withing the world, we have to wait for ArenaNet to give us a very rigid story.
So yeah, i like GW2 and play it almost daily, but i'm also disapointed at all the things they could have done way better.
What do you think about that ?
Will EQN live to the hype ? How will it compare to GW2 in your opinion ? Could GW2 improves or will it stagnate ?
Comments
You're not wrong, but I'm not sure Anet had much of a choice, tbh.
They were trying to make a game that was different, but would also attract a wide audience. In doing so, they were forced to make quite a few decisions (high lvl cap, simplified classes, heart NPCs, scouts) to make the game more accessible. It's one of those things where if they didn't put those things in, a lot less people would have the patience to give the game a real chance. But now that enough people have given it a chance, they want more of what they originally wanted to do.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't =/
GW2 was very shallow. So it might not be a good example, because people who play or played GW2 are/were looking for a simple yet shallow game, without it being called shallow .. so my apologies.
GW2 did have chatbubbles, but even with its many faults, SWTOR had better roleplay options. GW2 is/was for someone who does not like to interact much, but yet claim to be social because they do public "dynamic" quests together with strangers they never talk to (or need to).
GW2 has a pretty engine with a static world, but as the EQN demo's have shown, EQN has a dynamic world which trumps dynamic themepark encounters.
So, yeah, ArenaNet could have done more, but they were on a limited budget, and didn't really have access to higher technology (Forge Light, StoryBricks, procedurally generated maps, Voxels, etc).
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Arenanet and GW2 is doing just fine, I assure you. I doubt they are looking at EQN with envious eyes. They are a VERY talented team that produced a very worthy and polished game.
On a PERSONAL level, I just didn't find the gameplay right for me.
Blah.
1) They explained it was to keep the story coherent - otherwise new players could go straight to the end of the story. On the other hand old players can join new players on the low level areas and still find useful things. In fact I would say the large majority of the population in the starter areas are level 80, trying to quickly finish a daily or waiting for a world boss.
And in fact, the game scales in difficulty as was well - Orr is significantly harder than the starter areas. The open world game could be harder though, but I guess the majority dislike it as it was seen from the BWE where people complained about the difficulty and a somewhat empty Orr until Anet polished it (making the navigation of it less annowying, especially for solo players) and upped the rewards.
So this problem is a no problem.
2) It is a resource conflict. If some DEs are just offline for hours on end, either Anet has to have many more events to allow players to play the game or the players have nothing to do in the area.
And if you check the guild wars 2 forums there used to be a thread to keep track of which server had the Temple of Balthazar open so people could get their obsidian shards - large consequences sound nice until they prevent you from doing something - then they become an annoyance.
3) The AI is limited compared to what other MMORPGs? if anything the AI of GW2 seems to be better than many other MMORPGs. Of course, when the AI was fleeing from AoE, people complained that the AI was too smart...
More, GW2 physics system is superior to pretty much every MMORPG, as you can see in the youtube video. (anyone knows how to change the position of the youtube video? it seems it goes top by default).
4) Balance. in GW1 the best PvE healer was for long time the Necromancer. The necromancer was also the best ritualist. Then the elementalist was and still is the best healer. Warrior and Assassins were the best users of scythes, not the dervishes.
This is just for PvE. In PvP Mesmers were the best caster, even when using other caster class skills. Rangers were deadlier with daggers than assassins, etc.
5) I guess that is an artifact of mobs hitting for a ton of damage, having loads of hit points and being highly resilient to CC. I would rather that CC was more useful and that bosses had a nice number of adds, making CC more useful.
6) They never said it was a sandbox nor is a sandbox the choice of game for many players, especially for a game that is completely cooperative. Still there is a variety of mini games and the jumping puzzles are a game of their own. Last WvW is somewhat player driven.
EQN will hardly impact GW2 - people interested in sandbox features aren't playing GW2 anyway and if they are it only shows the sad state of sandboxes.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
yet they do living world updates every 2 weeks. As far as EQN goes, all games sound fantastic on press releases, but I have seen SOE screw up SWG, Vanguard, EQ2 .... if SOE promises chocolate ice cream then expect frozen cat feces
I miss DAoC
It's way too early to even compare both games. EQN has stated some features that are very similar to EQN, but we haven't seen them in real-time, just in pre-scripted videos. GW2 can always improve, and it still does. I just believe that all these comparisons are way too early, since we still know so little about EQN.
Too early to really draw such conclusions.
1) EQN's videos are pre-scripted. We haven't seen the potential (or lack thereof) of its systems on a large scale. It could be amazing - or it could be no more than a simple dynamic event with new hype words.
2) EQN's combat - at least as shown in the videos - looks unbelievably boring. It's stationary and underwhelming. Combat should be mobile and visceral - and while Guild Wars 2's combat can still be improved, it is infinitely more fun and exciting than the impression given by EQN's combat videos.
3) The art style of Guild Wars 2 is without equal. Norrath is beautiful, sure, but Tyria is a work of art.
GW2 is not in any way a shallow game, at it's core any way. The problem with the game and ANet is that the game at release provided an excellent foundation to build the things they promised in the Manifesto, but failed to fully provide in time for launch. Instead of building out that foundation to make the game more dynamic and provide more weight to player actions and their effect on the world, they decided to do this "Living Story" b.s..
Living Story is about as vapid, linear and pointless a waste of ongoing development time as one could ever imagine, considering this is the studio that produced this excellent and promising game. They've spent the past year basically spitting on the design concepts the game was based on.
The game had and still has, great potential, but it's becoming pretty clear that Arenanet 2013 is just not capable of advancing the game and fulfilling it's once promising potential.
IMO, it's time to admit that Living Story was a horrible, tragic mistake for the game and the studio, boot or reassign those responsible for the tragic waste of time/resources/potential and get back to work on making the game what it could have been and should have been.
The core game is still solid and represents incredible value for the purchase price, but my disgust at Anet's mishandling of the game post launch is making it hard for me to continue to support this title.
Arenanet, WTF is wrong with you?!?!?!?
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I don't believe in hypes.
I wonder why people only start making negative comment about GW2 after is is out.
Most likely people will say negative things about EQN too. But they can't now because they know so little of it.
How about you outline in great detail how the living story is a vapid, linear, and pointless waste of development time. In fact, I'd settle for you simply convincing me that the living story is the wrong direction for the game.
We. Don't. Need. More. Permanent. Content. In fact, we have too much. The game launched with so many servers and so much to do that most of its content is a ghost town, usually due to low income/rewards in that particular zone or dungeon. We don't need even more permanent dungeons and zones to split the playerbase further and make server mergers mandatory just to find people without the help of Guild Wars 2 lfg.com. What we need is improvement to overall game systems and individual zones - something that the Living Story updates are doing. Nearly every single update has come with noteworthy improvements to the game - such as the account wallet, effects detail changes, and dungeon and champion rewards adjustments in the next patch. Along with this, they also give you hours or even days worth of free, temporary content that helps stimulate activity in underplayed areas.
The mini-games that often accompany the living story are simply ones that were supposed to exist at launch but couldn't. The game was planned to have a plethora of unique activities such as Bar Brawl and even musical instruments, none of which managed to make it to the launch of the game. Now they are simply delivering on a promise made years ago.
I love ANET game art in both GW1 and GW2 (especially GW2)
EQ2 fan sites
Firstly,
- If you are having trouble finding people to do Dynamic Events in GW2, you're either on the wrong type of server, or are going about looking the wrong way.
Even today it's rare when I find events that don't have other people around. That is one thing Anet has actually managed to do well. With each of these new updates they've revamped or added incentives to go back to zones you've completed and do the events. As such, most of the zones have call outs in map chat 'Event @ [Phinney Waypoint] !! Hurry! 2mins on timer!' for example. There's even a web database dedicated to showing when world bosses are available across the game on EVERY server.
Still not enough? Most servers have at least a few guilds that are heavily PvE focused. Sure they do other things, but these guilds usually love running around the world, doing events, exploring, doing JPs, dungeons, etc. In particular I know a few on Tarnished Coast & Sanctum of Ral that even go as far as to structure events around such activities.
Secondly,
This will ALWAYS be an inherent problem with events based systems. Why? These events are designed to be multiplayer most of the time, and it's always fun to do things with other people. It's an issue with GW2 and it will be an issue with EQN. Like you say, maybe not at launch, but populations fluxtuate. People will leave / take breaks from the game, people will get sick of certain areas of the game world. It happens.
What will determine how badly this effects the enjoyment will be how the game handles providing enough incentives for people to go back and re-experience old areas. I'm not convinced digging holes in those areas will actually be enough. We'll see, though.
I want see how the pople were complaining about GW2 temporally content will cope with the fact that EQNext will have ONLY temporally content?
If you are not there fighting the Goblin King when he attacks the city, you lose that event forever...*
* if you don't believe me, watch the dev talking about the dynamic events/public quest that EQNext will have.
ArenaNet delivered everything they promised
It was people who overhyped it to the stars and got all QQ when it released
So no an orange is not what an apple should have been
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
I really do'nt see why to make so much fuss about dynamic events. EQNext will have them. To be true, EQNext will have ONLY dynamic events, with no hearts for show where they are happening or when they are happening. The thecnology will be diferent, EQNext dynamic events are based at storybricks and mobs and NPC more advanced AI, diferent from GW2 where dynamic events are scripted, but they will be dynamic events.
The same problems that GW2 have with dynamic events (so few people?), EQNext will have them too.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
We need evolving content that gives players a reason to take advantage of the sprawling, detailed game world.
Last fall, they talked about doubling or tripling the number of Dynamic Events in the game world during the first year. Events would unfold. Dynamic events would change. DEs would rotate in and out. A sense that the game world was evolving and the illusion of a living world; that's what the game needed.
Instead we got Living Story. A bunch of holiday-event-like, linear "jump through these hoops" content, most of which has been light on actual content and most of which has been temporary, with no sense that the world has changed as a result of anything.
We were promised a living, breathing game world and we got something much more static, with zero sense that events are progressing. The promise of a dynamic world has given way to zones that now feel like absolute theme parks, stuck in an endless loop of animatronic displays that only provide an illusion of life for the first five minutes.
They had the right idea. For the world to feel alive and for people to want to revisit various zones across the game world, DEs need to change, evolve and give way to new events that provide a logical progression from the stories told by previous events.
It was clear they had taken a seriously wrong turn when Frost and Flame played out over four months and rather than providing a framework for sweeping changes to the zones it touched, or at least a refresh of the DEs there, it all amounted to basically nothing.
Now, Living Story doesn't even pretend to bring life to the game world. If Tyria has become a static theme park, then LS is the visiting circus or carnival. The circus can be fun every few years and a festival or holiday is nice every few months, but when the circus comes to town every two weeks it loses it's novelty and appeal.
Arenanet created this huge canvas to paint upon, only to then decide they should focus on painting the head of a pin.
The past year has indeed been a sad waste of development time and a continual wasting away of the potential of the game.
A strategic strength of this game, from a business sense, was that the business model made it easy to maintain customers who might take weeks or months off from the game, returning later to see how the game world may have evolved. Anyone who has been away that should return today will find nothing in the game world has evolved or changed. They will also find that ANet has spent it's time pushing content that came and went and has absolutely no value to those who were not there to see it.
Their strategy has been wrong on every level. An incredible game that had no where to go but up somehow has managed to find itself diminished and bleeding away it's potential on a daily basis because of poor high level design decisions made since release.
Last August, I could never have imagined ANet, the developers of one of the best MMOs to ever hit the genre, could mess things up to the degree that they have managed. This game had $Billion+ lifetime revenue potential written all over it, but it's never going to happen with out a serious course change.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
