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Everquest Next is not a sandbox, it is a zoo.
Canan
Member UncommonPosts: 95
When did the MMORPG genre turn into this messy combination of random game features? Do we really care about destroying or building structures? I mean, if there isn't provocative or interesting core features I don't really care if I can knock down a wall. I want the crushing of the wall to have meaning - a purpose. Everyone is going to be good at everything and you can blow up a castle, yahoo! Oh and you can be a rogue who shoots fireballs...are we really going down this road again? I've never been more thankful for Kickstarter and the actual innovative games coming out of it.
As the title states, put away your shovels ladies and gents, we are headed to a zoo.
Comments
The real world out there aint?
What made UO unique was the freedom in players actions. Through that loads of situations occured due to players intercations,rogues breaking into players houses,friendships and enemies were made with some actual result and meaning behind it. Nice and nasty things may AND will occur when absolute freedom is given to ppl exactly like in real life. Thats why true sandbox games are so different from the socalled themeparks. You can ofc try to put some safety bars here and there to prevent retarded behaviors and who knows exactly that devs did or will do on that part till game comes...
You can't compare EQN to Ultima Online, at least yet. Ultima Online had amazing features + depth. Nothing was bind on equip, there were no safe zones out of town, the economy was completely player driven, items decayed, there was player housing, guild wars, thieves, animal taming, amazing crafting and many other countless features that gave meaning to the game.
Yes, in Everquest Next you can change the environment but for what purpose? Who cares if you can break down a wall if their is nothing challenging or thought provoking behind it? Don't you see? I'm not afraid of change; I welcome it. However, the change has to bring life and depth to the game, not hollow nothing's.
Don't be so quick to praise what you don't yet understand - challenge it and demand explanation.
Oh, It is a sandbox .........
Why?
Because Smedley said so .........
and to bring it home (CLICKY)
Perhaps a few sandboxy features but it seems the wait for a true sandbox continues. No thread is complete without someone crying about the graphics. Sooooo .......
/Burst Into Tears
~Hairysun
http://www.straightdope.com/
Ultima Online was the first ever sandbox. There was no destroying buildings, just FYI. It is true, however, that this feature adds life to the world, but challenge and identity still need to be incorporated. Will the economy be player driven? Will player made items compete? Can you tame the animals in the wilderness? Can you plop down a house and decorate it? Can you have guild wars? Can you own a boat? Can you PK another player? Does PKing have consequences? Etc. it is absurd to name your game "the biggest sandbox of all time" and make no mention of these features.
All of these things were incorporated in Ultima Online, which was designed in 1997 I might add. These are features that make a sandbox - so far a sandbox you are not Everquest Next.
Non of these issues are unsolvable imo.
The lore behind knocking down walls can be provided with rallying calls or just good writings(imagine during Orcs' siege attack on a major city, and all the things that can happen), and the multi-class stuff while allowing more variety in build choice(I always felt that warriors are too stupid to use magic, mages can't do backstabbing or thieves are simply forbid to work out is really stupid, btw this is one of the reason that made Skyrim awesome!), they also mentioned that you can always go with only one of the classic classes if you so desire.
It's all about how the devs and us do with these new tools.
Not everything has to be old school. Like you've mentioned, we've already got kickstarter for those kind of stuff.
What is old school about what I mentioned? Player housing? Wars between guilds? Player driven economies? Player killing? Are we really calling these features "old school" now?
I was talking about your original post.
Wars between guilds: no pvp mentioned but there will be, so we'll see.
Housing: they mentioned nothing. Kinda hoping for one tho.
Player driven economies: almost everything in the game will have that "emergent AI" they mentioned. Monsters, npcs, wild animals, events and quests will travel around the world to find the spot they like/suit according to players' action in the world. So, yeah... and much improved.
Edit: They mentioned something about shops will close because players are stealing stuff from them, or simply aren't buying.
Player killing: you mean griefing or pvp match? If it's the former than I'm glad it's not in EQN.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Ultima Online was not the first "sandbox". Aside from the fact we are completing ignoring 2 generations of MUDs here that came before UO that were almost exclusively sandbox games, The Realm Online and Meridian 59 could both be considered sandbox games.
As far as there being no destroying buildings in UO, yes this is true, but you could still construct construct houses and steal from them.
As for your other questions we don't know. I would assume you could tame animals in the wilderness being that there is an already announced Beastmaster class though. PKing and PvP with consequences have nothing to do with sandbox features, in fact the notion of consequences goes against the notion of freedom sandbox implies.
To me a sandbox means the ability to effect various things in the game world from environment, to game logic/rules, and generally putting less constraints on players to allow for this sort of freedom. Creation / Destruction of objects is basically a prime example of a sandbox feature.
But using your analogy, how is it ANYTHING like a zoo? Also to be honest I find zoos a lot more entertaining than sandboxes anyway, as I'm not a child anymore I grew out of the sandbox.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n64/redline3kgt/amberclose.jpg
Chaotic, a lot going on, disorderly, non cohesive. That is what I meant by the term zoo. There were a lot of features mentioned, that in my opinion, didn't added depth to the genre, just disorder and fluff. Give me features with heart and innovation. Adding minecraft features and 40 classes just seems the wrong way to do that (in my opinion).
As I said earlier, if you are going to make the claim of bring the biggest sandbox ever I need to see more than just minecraft. Do you blame me?
I still don't understand the analogy. A zoo is orderly. Animals are being kept in confined spaces so tourists can watch them. It's a controlled environment. I wouldn't call it chaotic.
I also don't remember the part playing in a sandbox as a kid where we hit each other with shovels till one of us passed out and then stole all their toys. The sandbox analogy is about creation/destruction and freedom, it's the fundamentals of the sandbox where you literally would shape the environment to your imagination. I understand that having the ability to PK someone wherever is freedom, but I don't understand why people always assume a game has to have FFA to be a sandbox.
I don't blame you for wanting more from it. Minecraft is a pretty good sandbox though, honestly, even if I don't play it tens of millions do. As for more features isn't a bit early to know? We don't what's going to be announced in the future. I think fully destructible environments and the landmark tool and it's integration into the game is a pretty good start for an epic sandbox personally. The emergent AI could lead to some sandbox style gameplay too, we'll have to wait and see. I'm not sure what more we can hope for there. I don't think it's fair at all to claim EQNext won't be a sandbox when of the little announced features at the moment many are sandbox features.
People should try to keep up with the interviews and panels.
Housing: Guild Castle, Guild Cities and player housing have been confirmed. They even said that we will be able to design our castle/house in Landmark and bring the design to EQNext.
Economy: Dev said that the majority of the game items are going to be made by the players.
so much complaining without the game being even half revealed as of now.
EQN is a sandbox as much as SWG was. pvp will be in game and i'm guessing it will be guild vs. guild or have city state factions people can join if they want (factions in UO). there will be open world player housing. there will be non-combat roles. there is the freedom to play as you want. it's not a sandbox because you can't be an evil paladin? well you couldn't be a good dread lord in UO either, sorry.