Ive seen enough dark side Jedi in my gaming life to know what happens when you let players have free will. Everyone wants to be special so they pick the most bazaar race/class combination and you end up with far more ogre wizards than elf wizards.
Besides Human is blank slate race and has been throughout EQ lore. I am sure they will be able to unlock every class.
Totally agree, restrictions based on lore is much more interesting than restrictions based on some stats. The root problem is the ridiculous traps that mmorgs that have got them into with the need to balance based on 1v1 & ever inflating stats on gear along with some players who complain about not having what others have etc.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I really pity new age gamers more and more as I get older. They just do not understand the concept of immersion. They just don't have the ability to comprehend that some people enjoy the idea of role playing. They have been force fed content all of their MMO existence, and have no knowledge or experience with creativity, reason, or logic when applied to the MMO space. It really is so saddening, the more that I think about it.
My initial reaction was, How does class restrictions based on lore NOT make sense in a MMORPG environment? To me, it's been the standard from the very first moment that I become familiar with D&D. But, I just have to start realizing that the culture of today's gamer is completely different from mine, someone who started playing MMO's in the golden age of the genre.
1. It completely ruins the point of having races if I have to choose one to be the most effective with my class. Why even bother? Just have them prechosen for us since we don't get any choice either way.
If the difference between races is purely cosmetic than what is the point of having different races?
Everyone = the same is awful game design.
Also, EQ1 had a clear best race for warrior. I would say less than 10% of warriors chose to be that race.
What is the point? I don't know......maybe because people LIKE those races?
If someone wants to make an Ogre wizard, that has ZERO affect on your gameplay.
Also I think some people haven't watched the Lore panel from soe live, the lore isn't the same as EQ/EQ2,
There are ogre mages in D&D. Bad example.
Dwarves on the other hand. They hate magic in most settings. Being a dwarf sorcerer would make no sense.
I really hate lore based class restrictions - Don't get me wrong, i love story and all that, i eat it up and and read every line of it.
But it REALLY pisses me off when i like a certain race, and i know it wont be optimal with the class I'm picking due to racial bonuses, or i simply CANT at all.
It just makes no sense, unless your character is going to singlehandedly rewrite lore. - Not to mention It'll pidgeonhole a lot of players into playing specific combinations, making characters seem way less Varied.
My mind was pretty blown when i saw the official poll results.
dont forget a lot of us come from eq1 which has class-race restrictions to this day. to me eq2 where you have any race any class always seemed a little off immersion wise because of that.
it is something i would only include in very lore driven games (LOTRO). but if EQN wants to go that way i'm fine with it. Also dont forget there are dozens of classes so if you can't get the precise class you want there's probably an analogous one you can get or something like that.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
class restriction based on lore is stupid, unless they mirror the class.
For example if there is a class that is restricted to a certain race like a mage class, then that means that class is not intelligent.
So if that is the case then why include that race as an equal choice, and then have multi classing.
It means that race will be inferior to any intelligent based classes, and can't mirror that well. So you can't multi class that race.
However, if a race can be an intelligent class and a melee class,among other classes, but not every kind of class becuase of the lore, then they can mirror it. A race that can become any class is a real multi classing option compared to one with huge restrictions and not even mirrored.
I do like customizations and feeling unique, but not to the point it gimps or restricts certain options. The key thing in multi classing is not restricting a whole class... they should not do that, but mirror it and have certain unique differences.
For example an ogre mage, would have a lot of hp and armor, but cast low dmg abilities but have a chance to doing a high crit.
Similarly a regular mage would do high dmg, have low hp, and be able to mitigate dmg every once in a while. Except trying to mitigate a crit is what can make one better than the other, and maybe indicating when to mitigate makes the balance more in the players hand rather than random roll.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
1. It completely ruins the point of having races if I have to choose one to be the most effective with my class. Why even bother? Just have them prechosen for us since we don't get any choice either way.
If the difference between races is purely cosmetic than what is the point of having different races?
Everyone = the same is awful game design.
Also, EQ1 had a clear best race for warrior. I would say less than 10% of warriors chose to be that race.
Choosing a race has loads of meaning because it's where you start, who you meet, and what you do. People choose a race because they love the look and the lore behind it. We choose a class to be differentiated in the actual gameplay, no one says "I want to be an elf so that I can be an inferior warrior to orcs" People want to be elves because they think they look cool and like the feeling of coming from that culture. I realize that in your mind Not EQ1 = bad but try and think a little more critically about things and you'll see why it's a stupid idea.
well dont like that all races can be absolutely any class, do like a soft race lock - dont want the hard lock where if you are a certain race you cant be half the classes - though if they keep the Kerran as it is now, I certainly hope it can only be a ranger ;P
but would hope they will do like in EQ2 where certain races are evil, some good and most neutral so can be both sides - all races can play all arch classes but not all variations. Even if I think there is too many neutral now
Choosing a race has loads of meaning because it's where you start, who you meet, and what you do. People choose a race because they love the look and the lore behind it. We choose a class to be differentiated in the actual gameplay, no one says "I want to be an elf so that I can be an inferior warrior to orcs" People want to be elves because they think they look cool and like the feeling of coming from that culture. I realize that in your mind Not EQ1 = bad but try and think a little more critically about things and you'll see why it's a stupid idea.
on your first point...
This is only true if every race has its own start point and that that start extends well into the game.
On your second point...
You have chosen a rather limited way of representing the classes.
"no one says "I want to be an elf so that I can be an inferior warrior to orcs" "
true
BUT
Most who chose an elf warrior I would guarantee have a very different view of how they would fight and what abilities they would use to those who choose an Ogre warrior
As I would expect ALL races to have access to the starting 8 core classes (no devs have suggested this is not the case)
Then why not have a more elegant style and skill set that elvs (and any others you think it works for) as one of the 40+ other classes
AND a far more brutish head cracking class available to orcs/ogre or whome ever it suits
There are so many ways they can make this work that I would be stunned if they DONT do it.
I would like to see restriction and access limited classes by Race, Faction, Location, Religion and anything else they can think of.
Restriction not out right ban.
You want to play that Ogre fencing master or Dwarf shadow weaver then you had better do the ground work.
If that class shifts too far from what you are (Orc paladin, Halfling gut ripper, Ogre scholar of the fey pentatherate)
There should be some permanent costs (reactions by others, restrictions on some other classes etc)
P.S. yes I pvp and way more than pve and I like nothing more than factions with different abilities and core racial advantages that are NOT mirrors. If i wanted E-Sports I would not play MMOs
class restriction based on lore is stupid, unless they mirror the class.
Class mirrors would probably make my top 10 list of "mechanics bad mmos use". SWtOR and WAR were significantly more shallow because of class mirrors. Its a tool for lazy developers.
Class mirrors would probably make my top 10 list of "mechanics bad mmos use". SWtOR and WAR were significantly more shallow because of class mirrors. Its a tool for lazy developers.
I agree with the point you are making ..BUT
WAR come on they do ok at making the classes slightly different.
SWtOR had exact mirror classes, in war some were close but not exact and some were completely different eg WL- Mara
every other game since WoW OTHER than WAR (to my knowledge) didnt even have mirrors they just had the exact same classes
1. It completely ruins the point of having races if I have to choose one to be the most effective with my class. Why even bother? Just have them prechosen for us since we don't get any choice either way.
If the difference between races is purely cosmetic than what is the point of having different races?
Everyone = the same is awful game design.
Also, EQ1 had a clear best race for warrior. I would say less than 10% of warriors chose to be that race.
Choosing a race has loads of meaning because it's where you start, who you meet, and what you do. People choose a race because they love the look and the lore behind it. We choose a class to be differentiated in the actual gameplay, no one says "I want to be an elf so that I can be an inferior warrior to orcs" People want to be elves because they think they look cool and like the feeling of coming from that culture. I realize that in your mind Not EQ1 = bad but try and think a little more critically about things and you'll see why it's a stupid idea.
Part of being an elf though is that they are not as strong as other races. they are quick and magical, but not strong or hardy. If a Troll and Elf have the same ease of picking up and excelling at mage, then you are reducing race to a cosmetic choice. I find it extremely boring if races dont have real strengths in weaknesses. I don't mind a way to overcome the weaknesses, provided its not something that is so easy everyone will do it (like eq2 betrayal)
Where's my choice for - class restriction: I like PVE and PVP equally?
Besides, if I were solely a pvper - I'd be a lot more upset about the 'we aren't worried about balance' quote.
What is often regarded as the best PvP MMORPG (DAoC) really didnt give a rat's ass about balance. When you have 40 classes (and even with racial restrictions you would imagine at least 30+ per race) and all the numerous builds its probable that any spec that develops as strong will have counter specs built for it. If something throws things really out of whack they would address it, but group PvP is more about teamwork and less about individual builds. As far as 1v1 PvP, I dont care.
My guess (hope really) is that open PvP will be only on PvP servers but PvE servers will have some kind of seige mechanic for large group PvP.
1. It completely ruins the point of having races if I have to choose one to be the most effective with my class. Why even bother? Just have them prechosen for us since we don't get any choice either way.
2. It renders what the multi-classing system completely pointless. The whole point was that we'd have freedom and be free of alting everything. Now we have to role multiple characters just to get every class. That is stupid.
3. It enforcers stupid stereotyped races with no depth or creativity. The Ogre HAS to be some genaric buff killing machine and the little Gnome HAS to be a rogue or whatever. Races should be about looking and feeling the way you want to, not being forced into one because of what class you choose.
I thought this round table thing would be cool, but it seems every decision the community makes is to make the game as much like every other MMO as possible. I want a next gen game not the same thing I've played for years. Even if the rest of you seem obsessed with just recreating the same game 200 times like they do with Call Of Battlestrike.
So, really, with your ideas here, we should just get rid of all races, and lump character creation into one big mess? I mean, with everything you just said, theres no reason to pick a race other then looks alone.
Who cares if your an Ogre, or gnome, or human, no one will with you ideas up there. There all the SAME! They all run at the same speed, they are all just as strong as the other, they are all equally smart (YYYAAAWWWNNN) Oh, sorry, about that, I got bored with all the similarities. So, lets do it your way and make the game WAY boring in the long run and dry this game up by 2016.
HHmmmmm, Im starting to think we need to get rid of all the class options too. I mean, why should you be a rogue , if I want to be a warrior?
I dont want to have to use my imagination and build a warrior that can kill a rogue by moving my skills around, and I Certainly do not want class restrictions or racial abilities that will MAKE me figure out how to kill the super strong ogre with a gnome by moving my skills around tactically. UUuuummmmmmmmm, wait a minute.........
High fantasy lore is not fair and balanced. Why do all of you cry for fairness and balance, and no class restrictions? It's because you don't know what role playing is.
Look at it this way, would bilbo make a great warrior? No, so deal with it
1. It completely ruins the point of having races if I have to choose one to be the most effective with my class. Why even bother? Just have them prechosen for us since we don't get any choice either way.
2. It renders what the multi-classing system completely pointless. The whole point was that we'd have freedom and be free of alting everything. Now we have to role multiple characters just to get every class. That is stupid.
3. It enforcers stupid stereotyped races with no depth or creativity. The Ogre HAS to be some genaric buff killing machine and the little Gnome HAS to be a rogue or whatever. Races should be about looking and feeling the way you want to, not being forced into one because of what class you choose.
I thought this round table thing would be cool, but it seems every decision the community makes is to make the game as much like every other MMO as possible. I want a next gen game not the same thing I've played for years. Even if the rest of you seem obsessed with just recreating the same game 200 times like they do with Call Of Battlestrike.
So, really, with your ideas here, we should just get rid of all races, and lump character creation into one big mess? I mean, with everything you just said, theres no reason to pick a race other then looks alone.
Who cares if your an Ogre, or gnome, or human, no one will with you ideas up there. There all the SAME! They all run at the same speed, they are all just as strong as the other, they are all equally smart (YYYAAAWWWNNN) Oh, sorry, about that, I got bored with all the similarities. So, lets do it your way and make the game WAY boring in the long run and dry this game up by 2016.
HHmmmmm, Im starting to think we need to get rid of all the class options too. I mean, why should you be a rogue , if I want to be a warrior?
I dont want to have to use my imagination and build a warrior that can kill a rogue by moving my skills around, and I Certainly do not want class restrictions or racial abilities that will MAKE me figure out how to kill the super strong ogre with a gnome by moving my skills around tactically. UUuuummmmmmmmm, wait a minute.........
I wish there was a like button. This response is spot on.
I mean the same people who want no restrictions. Would you be happy if they just races completely out, and replace it with a character generator that you can make your character look like an ogre but really is not an ogre? Talk about generic bland fantasy.
In a fantasy world full of lore. Choices like race should have an effect on the game if you want depth in the world. Choices you make should impact your play. That starts with racial choice.
Otherwise why not just make it where everyone is playing a human and allow them to put different skins on their character.
I voted for everyone to be able to be everything because I want to be able to do as much with my main as possible and have as many things to do as possible.
I don't want to collect a bunch of fancy stuff on my main but feel like I HAVE to make an alt and abandon it because x race I chose doesn't have access to blah blah. Not in a multiclassing game.
I find this conversation interesting for a few reasons:
Without restrictions players will be able to make any race/class combo which the argument is against Lore/Immersion.
With restrictions players feel they will be forced into making only certain classes*.
With penalties to classes per race, players are again saying then why have a choice as we are "forced" into what works best*.
*How is this much different than what we know of tanks/healers at this point? Will it matter what people can roll IF we are all forced into DPS roles? Why have the choice or option? Why have race/classes at all if we will all just have to DPS?
How is this even on topic? Well, we don't have the details of how the combat nor stats/ability systems work yet. So how are we supposed to make an informed option when they haven't told us the details yet? How do we know rolling an Orge Warrior will have any more benefit to rolling a Human Warrior?
In other words, let's wait and find out the details then give them the answer they are wanting..? Tell them we really can't answer that till we know the outcome of our choices. Just a thought.
I always find this "lore" argument pretty funny. No, really funny. You know, in the beginning of MMOs, the idea was that the PLAYERS would be the lore. it was not a book you read, it was a story you created, YOU were the lore, and what you did was written into the story. That was the charm, the amazing difference with MMOs compared to singleplayer roleplaying games. You get a world. You fill it with whatever you want to be in it, the characters, the companionships, the guilds and the government YOU create. it was like that for along time and it was glorious.
So, what changed that? Well, here is the funny part. SWG NGE. The absolute belief from developers that noone wanted to be a water farmer on a desert planet, everyone wanted to be a HERO. So away with any player freedom to play the game they wanted, tell them what they want to be and how to be it, and give them no choice to change that. There you have it... Your precious lore in MMORPGs. Brought on by the huge success of a great, lowpoly, static, automated MMO with most RPG elementes removed because that would "Confuse people that do not play MMOs" or rather.. an MMORPG for people that do not like MMORPGs.
So good work! You are proving they did right with NGE because "everyone" want to be that special flower, the HERO.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
I always find this "lore" argument pretty funny. No, really funny. You know, in the beginning of MMOs, the idea was that the PLAYERS would be the lore. it was not a book you read, it was a story you created, YOU were the lore, and what you did was written into the story. That was the charm, the amazing difference with MMOs compared to singleplayer roleplaying games. You get a world. You fill it with whatever you want to be in it, the characters, the companionships, the guilds and the government YOU create. it was like that for along time and it was glorious.
So, what changed that? Well, here is the funny part. SWG NGE. The absolute belief from developers that noone wanted to be a water farmer on a desert planet, everyone wanted to be a HERO. So away with any player freedom to play the game they wanted, tell them what they want to be and how to be it, and give them no choice to change that. There you have it... Your precious lore in MMORPGs. Brought on by the huge success of a great, lowpoly, static, automated MMO with most RPG elementes removed because that would "Confuse people that do not play MMOs" or rather.. an MMORPG for people that do not like MMORPGs.
So good work! You are proving they did right with NGE because "everyone" want to be that special flower, the HERO.
That might be true of some MMOs but not MMORPGs which all have huge amounts of lore put into the world before even 1 player sets foot in it.Now once it's launched the idea should be that the players affect the story in the present and future but that's not the same thing as lore till it's in the past and made canon
As to the subject at hand,some of us miss having choices have consequences.....choosing a side/faction and a race should have positive and negative consequences.
To me this whole race and faction thing just being cosmetic is part of what's lead to everything becoming so generic and bland and a lack of identity and pride in ones side in a game.
I have yet to read a fantasy series that didn't have at least one character that was unique from what was the "norm" for their race. So why wouldn't games have it.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
Originally posted by Resia I have yet to read a fantasy series that didn't have at least one character that was unique from what was the "norm" for their race. So why wouldn't games have it.
Because if everyone could do it then it wouldn't be unique?
Their first point in their presentation was class freedom, Imposing class restrictions based on race is against the class freedom that they promoted.
Also, in a system with 40 classes where the class is only 4 abilities that you get access to I am not even sure you can call it classes, its more of an ability theme that you select. Restricting access to ability themes is what classes do in other games, so in many ways your race has now become your class, it tells you what you can(t) learn.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Comments
Ive seen enough dark side Jedi in my gaming life to know what happens when you let players have free will. Everyone wants to be special so they pick the most bazaar race/class combination and you end up with far more ogre wizards than elf wizards.
Besides Human is blank slate race and has been throughout EQ lore. I am sure they will be able to unlock every class.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I really pity new age gamers more and more as I get older. They just do not understand the concept of immersion. They just don't have the ability to comprehend that some people enjoy the idea of role playing. They have been force fed content all of their MMO existence, and have no knowledge or experience with creativity, reason, or logic when applied to the MMO space. It really is so saddening, the more that I think about it.
My initial reaction was, How does class restrictions based on lore NOT make sense in a MMORPG environment? To me, it's been the standard from the very first moment that I become familiar with D&D. But, I just have to start realizing that the culture of today's gamer is completely different from mine, someone who started playing MMO's in the golden age of the genre.
There are ogre mages in D&D. Bad example.
Dwarves on the other hand. They hate magic in most settings. Being a dwarf sorcerer would make no sense.
dont forget a lot of us come from eq1 which has class-race restrictions to this day. to me eq2 where you have any race any class always seemed a little off immersion wise because of that.
it is something i would only include in very lore driven games (LOTRO). but if EQN wants to go that way i'm fine with it. Also dont forget there are dozens of classes so if you can't get the precise class you want there's probably an analogous one you can get or something like that.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
class restriction based on lore is stupid, unless they mirror the class.
For example if there is a class that is restricted to a certain race like a mage class, then that means that class is not intelligent.
So if that is the case then why include that race as an equal choice, and then have multi classing.
It means that race will be inferior to any intelligent based classes, and can't mirror that well. So you can't multi class that race.
However, if a race can be an intelligent class and a melee class,among other classes, but not every kind of class becuase of the lore, then they can mirror it. A race that can become any class is a real multi classing option compared to one with huge restrictions and not even mirrored.
I do like customizations and feeling unique, but not to the point it gimps or restricts certain options. The key thing in multi classing is not restricting a whole class... they should not do that, but mirror it and have certain unique differences.
For example an ogre mage, would have a lot of hp and armor, but cast low dmg abilities but have a chance to doing a high crit.
Similarly a regular mage would do high dmg, have low hp, and be able to mitigate dmg every once in a while. Except trying to mitigate a crit is what can make one better than the other, and maybe indicating when to mitigate makes the balance more in the players hand rather than random roll.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Choosing a race has loads of meaning because it's where you start, who you meet, and what you do. People choose a race because they love the look and the lore behind it. We choose a class to be differentiated in the actual gameplay, no one says "I want to be an elf so that I can be an inferior warrior to orcs" People want to be elves because they think they look cool and like the feeling of coming from that culture. I realize that in your mind Not EQ1 = bad but try and think a little more critically about things and you'll see why it's a stupid idea.
well dont like that all races can be absolutely any class, do like a soft race lock - dont want the hard lock where if you are a certain race you cant be half the classes - though if they keep the Kerran as it is now, I certainly hope it can only be a ranger ;P
but would hope they will do like in EQ2 where certain races are evil, some good and most neutral so can be both sides - all races can play all arch classes but not all variations. Even if I think there is too many neutral now
on your first point...
This is only true if every race has its own start point and that that start extends well into the game.
On your second point...
You have chosen a rather limited way of representing the classes.
"no one says "I want to be an elf so that I can be an inferior warrior to orcs" "
true
BUT
Most who chose an elf warrior I would guarantee have a very different view of how they would fight and what abilities they would use to those who choose an Ogre warrior
As I would expect ALL races to have access to the starting 8 core classes (no devs have suggested this is not the case)
Then why not have a more elegant style and skill set that elvs (and any others you think it works for) as one of the 40+ other classes
AND a far more brutish head cracking class available to orcs/ogre or whome ever it suits
There are so many ways they can make this work that I would be stunned if they DONT do it.
I would like to see restriction and access limited classes by Race, Faction, Location, Religion and anything else they can think of.
Restriction not out right ban.
You want to play that Ogre fencing master or Dwarf shadow weaver then you had better do the ground work.
If that class shifts too far from what you are (Orc paladin, Halfling gut ripper, Ogre scholar of the fey pentatherate)
There should be some permanent costs (reactions by others, restrictions on some other classes etc)
P.S. yes I pvp and way more than pve and I like nothing more than factions with different abilities and core racial advantages that are NOT mirrors. If i wanted E-Sports I would not play MMOs
Class mirrors would probably make my top 10 list of "mechanics bad mmos use". SWtOR and WAR were significantly more shallow because of class mirrors. Its a tool for lazy developers.
I agree with the point you are making ..BUT
WAR
come on they do ok at making the classes slightly different.
SWtOR had exact mirror classes, in war some were close but not exact and some were completely different eg WL- Mara
every other game since WoW OTHER than WAR (to my knowledge) didnt even have mirrors they just had the exact same classes
Part of being an elf though is that they are not as strong as other races. they are quick and magical, but not strong or hardy. If a Troll and Elf have the same ease of picking up and excelling at mage, then you are reducing race to a cosmetic choice. I find it extremely boring if races dont have real strengths in weaknesses. I don't mind a way to overcome the weaknesses, provided its not something that is so easy everyone will do it (like eq2 betrayal)
Where's my choice for - class restriction: I like PVE and PVP equally?
Besides, if I were solely a pvper - I'd be a lot more upset about the 'we aren't worried about balance' quote.
What is often regarded as the best PvP MMORPG (DAoC) really didnt give a rat's ass about balance. When you have 40 classes (and even with racial restrictions you would imagine at least 30+ per race) and all the numerous builds its probable that any spec that develops as strong will have counter specs built for it. If something throws things really out of whack they would address it, but group PvP is more about teamwork and less about individual builds. As far as 1v1 PvP, I dont care.
My guess (hope really) is that open PvP will be only on PvP servers but PvE servers will have some kind of seige mechanic for large group PvP.
So, really, with your ideas here, we should just get rid of all races, and lump character creation into one big mess? I mean, with everything you just said, theres no reason to pick a race other then looks alone.
Who cares if your an Ogre, or gnome, or human, no one will with you ideas up there. There all the SAME! They all run at the same speed, they are all just as strong as the other, they are all equally smart (YYYAAAWWWNNN) Oh, sorry, about that, I got bored with all the similarities. So, lets do it your way and make the game WAY boring in the long run and dry this game up by 2016.
HHmmmmm, Im starting to think we need to get rid of all the class options too. I mean, why should you be a rogue , if I want to be a warrior?
I dont want to have to use my imagination and build a warrior that can kill a rogue by moving my skills around, and I Certainly do not want class restrictions or racial abilities that will MAKE me figure out how to kill the super strong ogre with a gnome by moving my skills around tactically. UUuuummmmmmmmm, wait a minute.........
Why do all of you cry for fairness and balance, and no class restrictions?
It's because you don't know what role playing is.
Look at it this way,
would bilbo make a great warrior?
No, so deal with it
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I wish there was a like button. This response is spot on.
I mean the same people who want no restrictions. Would you be happy if they just races completely out, and replace it with a character generator that you can make your character look like an ogre but really is not an ogre? Talk about generic bland fantasy.
In a fantasy world full of lore. Choices like race should have an effect on the game if you want depth in the world. Choices you make should impact your play. That starts with racial choice.
Otherwise why not just make it where everyone is playing a human and allow them to put different skins on their character.
I voted for everyone to be able to be everything because I want to be able to do as much with my main as possible and have as many things to do as possible.
I don't want to collect a bunch of fancy stuff on my main but feel like I HAVE to make an alt and abandon it because x race I chose doesn't have access to blah blah. Not in a multiclassing game.
I find this conversation interesting for a few reasons:
Without restrictions players will be able to make any race/class combo which the argument is against Lore/Immersion.
With restrictions players feel they will be forced into making only certain classes*.
With penalties to classes per race, players are again saying then why have a choice as we are "forced" into what works best*.
*How is this much different than what we know of tanks/healers at this point? Will it matter what people can roll IF we are all forced into DPS roles? Why have the choice or option? Why have race/classes at all if we will all just have to DPS?
How is this even on topic? Well, we don't have the details of how the combat nor stats/ability systems work yet. So how are we supposed to make an informed option when they haven't told us the details yet? How do we know rolling an Orge Warrior will have any more benefit to rolling a Human Warrior?
In other words, let's wait and find out the details then give them the answer they are wanting..? Tell them we really can't answer that till we know the outcome of our choices. Just a thought.
I always find this "lore" argument pretty funny. No, really funny. You know, in the beginning of MMOs, the idea was that the PLAYERS would be the lore. it was not a book you read, it was a story you created, YOU were the lore, and what you did was written into the story. That was the charm, the amazing difference with MMOs compared to singleplayer roleplaying games. You get a world. You fill it with whatever you want to be in it, the characters, the companionships, the guilds and the government YOU create. it was like that for along time and it was glorious.
So, what changed that? Well, here is the funny part. SWG NGE. The absolute belief from developers that noone wanted to be a water farmer on a desert planet, everyone wanted to be a HERO. So away with any player freedom to play the game they wanted, tell them what they want to be and how to be it, and give them no choice to change that. There you have it... Your precious lore in MMORPGs. Brought on by the huge success of a great, lowpoly, static, automated MMO with most RPG elementes removed because that would "Confuse people that do not play MMOs" or rather.. an MMORPG for people that do not like MMORPGs.
So good work! You are proving they did right with NGE because "everyone" want to be that special flower, the HERO.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
That might be true of some MMOs but not MMORPGs which all have huge amounts of lore put into the world before even 1 player sets foot in it.Now once it's launched the idea should be that the players affect the story in the present and future but that's not the same thing as lore till it's in the past and made canon
As to the subject at hand,some of us miss having choices have consequences.....choosing a side/faction and a race should have positive and negative consequences.
To me this whole race and faction thing just being cosmetic is part of what's lead to everything becoming so generic and bland and a lack of identity and pride in ones side in a game.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
Because if everyone could do it then it wouldn't be unique?
Their first point in their presentation was class freedom, Imposing class restrictions based on race is against the class freedom that they promoted.
Also, in a system with 40 classes where the class is only 4 abilities that you get access to I am not even sure you can call it classes, its more of an ability theme that you select. Restricting access to ability themes is what classes do in other games, so in many ways your race has now become your class, it tells you what you can(t) learn.