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SWG didn't have "Trinity", so why isn't everyone following SWG's model?
BearKnight
Member CommonPosts: 461
A simple question. One of the three major aspects that made SWG so amazing was its Skill system, Crafting system, and Equipment system (durability based so you had a real economy).
Why do you guys think SWG's system isn't being copied instead of GW2's horribly shallow and uninspiringly boring combat system?
You didn't have "tanks", "dps", "control" roles in SWG. You had people with different assortments of weapons in hand-crafted high quality armor with doctors/combat medics/medics in higher-end situations healing everyone. The "threat" system in SWG was essentially whoever did the most damage, and it worked out quite nicely. People had their own independent roles that weren't just "look at me, i can do EVERYTHING, therefor no one is special" that you find in GW2 style combat.
Just a thought 
Comments
Bad management. Read up on the history.
To be fair SWG was very profitable. The problem is that LucasArts saw WoW getting upwards of 2,3,4 million subscribers, and were pissed off at only have 400k-500k subscribers at the time. So they ordered SOE to silently revamp the game to WoW similar playstyle elements to draw in millions of people. Afterall, it was StarWars, how the hell could StarWars of all IPs not be generating MILLIONS of subscribers?
The fact is, that the StarWars universe is actually a niche universe. The movies are cool and flashy, but when you actually get down to it the IP doesn't lend itself to hand-held linear themepark gameplay (SWTOR proved this).
Also, when did "niche" become a bad thing? ALLLLLL of the best games ever mentioned of all time were NICHE games. Even WoW is a niche game. It caters to super casuals, and themepark oriented players....that's about as niche as you get.
Niche doesn't mean "small", it means "Specific audience".
Just thought i'd throw that in there. Good thoughts though Kano
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[TLDR; see moosecatlol's comment]
That isn't the question of the thread though :P. The question is "why aren't more companies copying SWG's core systems rather than other known-to-be-poor systems?" in a TLDR sense
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Good comment though xD!
Player + Doc Buffs + Stims was the SWG trinity.
Altho I used this messed up build so I could slice terms, use a pet and an LLC. Which probably wasn't really the intended playstyle ... but it provided an awesome flow of credits to the PA.
PvP was Stack CM (combat medic) diseases until you perma capped your enemy.
*.*
That said.. SWG was my 2nd favorite MMO.. 1st being Ultima Online.
*edit* for clarity the above comments are about SWG at launch and the first few months after launch. Some of the above changed but I am not sure of the timeline currently.. but obviously before the CU or NGE.
We don't speak its name.
Because I don't know, maybe the combat queue was the greatest aspect ever invented so I could sit and chat while I let my character do what he did. Social aspects were put into the game. That part made combat have to be similar in the way it was handled to add the ability to chat and attack. To bad games are now all ARPG in nature of speed of combat, which is fine, but not if you want to build social elements.
See EQN and so far it seems to be copying the whole lets have combat as engaging as possible because, hell then people will play and not chat.
Putting it like that, everything can be subverted into a "Trinity" definition. The aspect of "Trinity" means Tank/Healer/DPS as a primary group makeup. One of the aspects is that a Tank MUST have a form of taunting to hold aggro......no such system existed like this in SWG.
It was simply heavily buffed DPS characters rolling around, and every now and then someone would spec full Doctor for a specific reason. That doesn't fall under Trinity whatsoever.
That's not what the past-greats, great. What you're saying is that EQ:N will devolve into what GW2 is now, everyone zerging around doing "Events" without saying a word or communicating.
That sounds terribly boring, but more important lonely.
Niche doesn't mean what you think it means. WoW is not niche, it's typically a subset of the market that is niche. Niche market.
SWG didn't get copied because is was a technical mess, with 38 classes, a horrible combat system (that was revamped twice) and was still garbage. All it really had was a dual class system anyway. Which games like Final Fantasy did way better with the job system.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/My caveat is that SWG was by far my favorite MMO and the only one I've ever felt truly at home at. Having said that, the combat was not it's greatest point.
There was no trinity because everyone wore the same fucking comp armor and differences in defense were small. Differences in DPS were relegated to the pool they struck on the HAM, not the strategy they used to do it. There were healers though.
I'm not saying a trinity is necessary, but I hope that combat is more complex and nuanced than in SWG.
PvP for me was a geonosian mind damage pistolwhip combo for some fast insta kills on the blue mind bar.
Also pre trammelUO + pre ngeSWG = win
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
While SWG was one of my favourite MMOs, the things that made it great had very little to do with its combat or the challenge of its PvE encounters.
While i didn't reach any kind of high rank in SWG, the experience that i DID have in group and (what passed for) raid combat, didn't particularly strike me as very challenging.
I had lots of fun in SWG soloing and duoing with some buddies, but as far as creating really challenging PvE encounters, i didnt' see it. ANd this is the main thing that the trinity (in my opinion) enables.
I think that if you ask most SWG fans "What features from SWG would you like to see return?" the answer "amazing combat and challenging PvE" will probably not rank near the top.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
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Currently Playing: ESO
SWG was always profitable. It made a profit on day 1 of box sales. It was considered a huge success and the number 2 most played game in NA. It was also completely broken and bug ridden. Unplayable with above average amount of memory at the time.
Forcing even the hardcore to upgrade to play a game that is completely different than whats on the box and in the manual isn't how you take off in popularity, even though the original concepts did take off. remember the awards swg won? Fastest growing game at the time?
I didn't know one person who quit because of the design, but I know about half of my server quit because it was NOT like the original design. This is a fact based 100% on reality. The more swg became a themepark, the fewer people liked it and played. And swg started become a themepark on day 1.
SWTOR proved this beyond any reasonable doubt. Virtual worlds are what most people want. All facts point to this. I know I wouldn't be investing in any business that ignored reality only to lose the most money in mmo history. Nor any other company who still blindly follows failures. Our lovely game makers listen to experts to tell them what their customers want.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Agreed, I did love the weapon/armor system though, different weapon types for different armor types.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
People seem to only remember what SOE used as excuses for the NGE.
They always forget that at launch SWG had record sales was the number 2 MMO at the time... I mean EQ was still number one in the west. Have to make that distinction because I think L1 had way more players but they were all in the Asian market and at that time... probably the only western MMO to do well in Asia was UO.
SWG was never considered a "failure" until after WoW launched which is why it was not until 2005 that major changes were made. Oh and yes there were a lot of broken things but it was still one of the most fun MMO's I ever played.
Personally I never had issues running the game. Since fairly early on I was running 5 or so clients to max out the payouts on my missions.
I think the fact that combat was not the main focus of the game was also one of its greatest points, sure combat was there, but the social aspects of the game were by far its dominant features, it was a social game with combat and crafting. Perhaps thats why SWG is remembered by so many for so long. It was always about the things you did in the game and the people you knew there, and the things that people did together that even now, are reminisced about.
The combat was not like normal mmorpgs. You basically put together a build, got the right armor, weapons, buffs, and then queued up your rotation and watched if it was going to work. The animations were pretty though.
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No, the question is "why aren't more companies copying SWG's core systems rather than systems BearKnight dislikes?" The answer to that question is "because other people like them".
Fencer animations were the Baznitch
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The most popular games in the world are non combat games. But only in mmorpgs do you see such blindness to other gameplay styles. Only in mmorpgs do you see the removal of systems, the customer base leaving and experts claiming the industry is growing and doing better than ever. Typically if you offer less, you'll receive less. But in mmorpgs, free is more profitable. The only industry that works exactly opposite of standard business practices and still grows forever without making money.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"