Just for the record I'm not criticising GW2 I'm criticising PR spin from Arenanet and others are doing the same, this is only news to overshadow the consistent down trend (or in accounting speak "stable") in revenue and is meaningless with an MMO. Concurrent and unique log ins matter the most but where are those stats? Blizzard puts them out for Diablo 3, why? because they are impressive and promote the game but Arenanet don't do the same because? they are not so impressive?
When TESO releases expect GW2 to lose their unique snowflake title, then maybe it'll go to EQN and then Titan as most downloaded MMO's in history which would be another meaningless title. I also play GW2 casually, love the open world game dislike the Living Story part and the underhanded nerfs to force players to the gem market but I mainly don't like spin as it obscuring the real story that GW2 box sales have fallen of a cliff, the focus now is 100% on the gem store and "course correction" remember it took Warhammer about 18 months to hit maintenance mode and Ncsoft don't do maintenance mode.
Lets hope the changes to how they develop the game keep the gem shop going as that needs to stay buoyant to keep the game afloat. Though unlike f2p games they don't have anything in the shop that is essential to progression ie consumables and once everyone has what they want and all the gold they need with no more box sales where is the new money going to come from?
You mean like the nerfs that give everyone achievement chests with more gold than most casual players would make?
You mean like the nerfs of the 5000 achievement point chest that give 400 gems?
You mean like the nerfs that include an account wide wallet?
You mean like the nerfs that saw an addition of more tab space for festival materials?
You mean like the Queen pavillion, that is a huge farming spot?
Or the new champion loot bag?
Or giving a kite and mini pet pack for free to people that had bought gems?
So they are resorting to giving out little tasters of the cash shop for free? are you really that naive you cannot work out why? but none of what you have written disputes any of the facts that they've been systematically nerfing gold farming zones since release and adding in DR so farming is not possible. No company changes the way they do business on a whim, revenue is dropping quarter on quarter and what they've earned has nothing to do with now and the future only that revenue is dropping thus all these new incentives to buy gems.
Gems pay for the Live team. NCSoft pays for people working on expansions.
GW2 made something like $240M.
Even if GW2 developments costs were $100M (I doubt it was more than $20-30M) it already made $140M profit.
NCSoft has GW1 up and running and GW1 didn't make $240M in its life time.
Seriously? 20 to 30 million for a game that was in development for 5 years? that wouldn't even cover US and EU advertising. You have written some interesting rebukes to arguments Gaia over the past year but you really are losing touch now. Remember this is not about criticising GW2 as a game which is a very enjoyable experience its about the future and how their original vision is now being transformed into something else while PR tries to make out the game continues to be a runaway success as revenue drops quarter on quarter. The timing of this marketing analysis comes a day after Ncsofts quaterly accounts are released, funny that don't you think?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Just for the record I'm not criticising GW2 I'm criticising PR spin from Arenanet and others are doing the same, this is only news to overshadow the consistent down trend (or in accounting speak "stable") in revenue and is meaningless with an MMO. Concurrent and unique log ins matter the most but where are those stats? Blizzard puts them out for Diablo 3, why? because they are impressive and promote the game but Arenanet don't do the same because? they are not so impressive?
When TESO releases expect GW2 to lose their unique snowflake title, then maybe it'll go to EQN and then Titan as most downloaded MMO's in history which would be another meaningless title. I also play GW2 casually, love the open world game dislike the Living Story part and the underhanded nerfs to force players to the gem market but I mainly don't like spin as it obscuring the real story that GW2 box sales have fallen of a cliff, the focus now is 100% on the gem store and "course correction" remember it took Warhammer about 18 months to hit maintenance mode and Ncsoft don't do maintenance mode.
Lets hope the changes to how they develop the game keep the gem shop going as that needs to stay buoyant to keep the game afloat. Though unlike f2p games they don't have anything in the shop that is essential to progression ie consumables and once everyone has what they want and all the gold they need with no more box sales where is the new money going to come from?
You mean like the nerfs that give everyone achievement chests with more gold than most casual players would make?
You mean like the nerfs of the 5000 achievement point chest that give 400 gems?
You mean like the nerfs that include an account wide wallet?
You mean like the nerfs that saw an addition of more tab space for festival materials?
You mean like the Queen pavillion, that is a huge farming spot?
Or the new champion loot bag?
Or giving a kite and mini pet pack for free to people that had bought gems?
So they are resorting to giving out little tasters of the cash shop for free? are you really that naive you cannot work out why? but none of what you have written disputes any of the facts that they've been systematically nerfing gold farming zones since release and adding in DR so farming is not possible. No company changes the way they do business on a whim, revenue is dropping quarter on quarter and what they've earned has nothing to do with now and the future only that revenue is dropping thus all these new incentives to buy gems.
Gems pay for the Live team. NCSoft pays for people working on expansions.
GW2 made something like $240M.
Even if GW2 developments costs were $100M (I doubt it was more than $20-30M) it already made $140M profit.
NCSoft has GW1 up and running and GW1 didn't make $240M in its life time.
Seriously? 20 to 30 million for a game that was in development for 5 years? that wouldn't even cover US and EU advertising. You have written some interesting rebukes to arguments Gaia over the past year but you really are losing touch now. Remember this is not about criticising GW2 as a game which is a very enjoyable experience its about the future and how their original vision is now being transformed into something else while PR tries to make out the game continues to be a runaway success as revenue drops quarter on quarter. The timing of this marketing analysis comes a day after Ncsofts quaterly accounts are released, funny that don't you think?
Just for the record I'm not criticising GW2 I'm criticising PR spin from Arenanet and others are doing the same, this is only news to overshadow the consistent down trend (or in accounting speak "stable") in revenue and is meaningless with an MMO. Concurrent and unique log ins matter the most but where are those stats? Blizzard puts them out for Diablo 3, why? because they are impressive and promote the game but Arenanet don't do the same because? they are not so impressive?
When TESO releases expect GW2 to lose their unique snowflake title, then maybe it'll go to EQN and then Titan as most downloaded MMO's in history which would be another meaningless title. I also play GW2 casually, love the open world game dislike the Living Story part and the underhanded nerfs to force players to the gem market but I mainly don't like spin as it obscuring the real story that GW2 box sales have fallen of a cliff, the focus now is 100% on the gem store and "course correction" remember it took Warhammer about 18 months to hit maintenance mode and Ncsoft don't do maintenance mode.
Lets hope the changes to how they develop the game keep the gem shop going as that needs to stay buoyant to keep the game afloat. Though unlike f2p games they don't have anything in the shop that is essential to progression ie consumables and once everyone has what they want and all the gold they need with no more box sales where is the new money going to come from?
You mean like the nerfs that give everyone achievement chests with more gold than most casual players would make?
You mean like the nerfs of the 5000 achievement point chest that give 400 gems?
You mean like the nerfs that include an account wide wallet?
You mean like the nerfs that saw an addition of more tab space for festival materials?
You mean like the Queen pavillion, that is a huge farming spot?
Or the new champion loot bag?
Or giving a kite and mini pet pack for free to people that had bought gems?
So they are resorting to giving out little tasters of the cash shop for free? are you really that naive you cannot work out why? but none of what you have written disputes any of the facts that they've been systematically nerfing gold farming zones since release and adding in DR so farming is not possible. No company changes the way they do business on a whim, revenue is dropping quarter on quarter and what they've earned has nothing to do with now and the future only that revenue is dropping thus all these new incentives to buy gems.
Gems pay for the Live team. NCSoft pays for people working on expansions.
GW2 made something like $240M.
Even if GW2 developments costs were $100M (I doubt it was more than $20-30M) it already made $140M profit.
NCSoft has GW1 up and running and GW1 didn't make $240M in its life time.
Seriously? 20 to 30 million for a game that was in development for 5 years? that wouldn't even cover US and EU advertising. You have written some interesting rebukes to arguments Gaia over the past year but you really are losing touch now. Remember this is not about criticising GW2 as a game which is a very enjoyable experience its about the future and how their original vision is now being transformed into something else while PR tries to make out the game continues to be a runaway success as revenue drops quarter on quarter. The timing of this marketing analysis comes a day after Ncsofts quaterly accounts are released, funny that don't you think?
They have around 30 programmers - lets say they earn an average of 70K a year. So that is $10M, give or take.
They also have around 30 artists. Lets say an average of 40K a year. that is another $6M.
If the other 100 employees earned $25K, that is another $12.5M.
So $30M to $50M tops.
They have no crazy expensive cinematics, they reused part of the engine and they already had a decent network infrastructure.
They also move some people to NCSoft West and whatnot.
Do you think NCSoft would invest $100M in a game?
Your numbers are off by quite a bit. You might not understand how employment works here in the US though... An employee costs somewhere around 1.25 to 1.4 times more than their salary and that is due to employment taxes, benefits, and insurances that all employers are required to have. This would only be for full time employees though. A lot of that cost isn't incurred on contractors, but you generally pay them higher as they have to seek out their own benefits.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Sigh. People on this site are some of the rudest and most jaded players I've ever seen. Seriously? Is Anet not allowed to be part of a major accomplishment?
But no. All of you have to come here and take a big shit all over the news because "my game is better." Grow up.
Just for the record I'm not criticising GW2 I'm criticising PR spin from Arenanet and others are doing the same, this is only news to overshadow the consistent down trend (or in accounting speak "stable") in revenue and is meaningless with an MMO. Concurrent and unique log ins matter the most but where are those stats? Blizzard puts them out for Diablo 3, why? because they are impressive and promote the game but Arenanet don't do the same because? they are not so impressive?
When TESO releases expect GW2 to lose their unique snowflake title, then maybe it'll go to EQN and then Titan as most downloaded MMO's in history which would be another meaningless title. I also play GW2 casually, love the open world game dislike the Living Story part and the underhanded nerfs to force players to the gem market but I mainly don't like spin as it obscuring the real story that GW2 box sales have fallen of a cliff, the focus now is 100% on the gem store and "course correction" remember it took Warhammer about 18 months to hit maintenance mode and Ncsoft don't do maintenance mode.
Lets hope the changes to how they develop the game keep the gem shop going as that needs to stay buoyant to keep the game afloat. Though unlike f2p games they don't have anything in the shop that is essential to progression ie consumables and once everyone has what they want and all the gold they need with no more box sales where is the new money going to come from?
You mean like the nerfs that give everyone achievement chests with more gold than most casual players would make?
You mean like the nerfs of the 5000 achievement point chest that give 400 gems?
You mean like the nerfs that include an account wide wallet?
You mean like the nerfs that saw an addition of more tab space for festival materials?
You mean like the Queen pavillion, that is a huge farming spot?
Or the new champion loot bag?
Or giving a kite and mini pet pack for free to people that had bought gems?
So they are resorting to giving out little tasters of the cash shop for free? are you really that naive you cannot work out why? but none of what you have written disputes any of the facts that they've been systematically nerfing gold farming zones since release and adding in DR so farming is not possible. No company changes the way they do business on a whim, revenue is dropping quarter on quarter and what they've earned has nothing to do with now and the future only that revenue is dropping thus all these new incentives to buy gems.
Gems pay for the Live team. NCSoft pays for people working on expansions.
GW2 made something like $240M.
Even if GW2 developments costs were $100M (I doubt it was more than $20-30M) it already made $140M profit.
NCSoft has GW1 up and running and GW1 didn't make $240M in its life time.
Seriously? 20 to 30 million for a game that was in development for 5 years? that wouldn't even cover US and EU advertising. You have written some interesting rebukes to arguments Gaia over the past year but you really are losing touch now. Remember this is not about criticising GW2 as a game which is a very enjoyable experience its about the future and how their original vision is now being transformed into something else while PR tries to make out the game continues to be a runaway success as revenue drops quarter on quarter. The timing of this marketing analysis comes a day after Ncsofts quaterly accounts are released, funny that don't you think?
They have around 30 programmers - lets say they earn an average of 70K a year. So that is $10M, give or take.
They also have around 30 artists. Lets say an average of 40K a year. that is another $6M.
If the other 100 employees earned $25K, that is another $12.5M.
So $30M to $50M tops.
They have no crazy expensive cinematics, they reused part of the engine and they already had a decent network infrastructure.
They also move some people to NCSoft West and whatnot.
Do you think NCSoft would invest $100M in a game?
Your numbers are off by quite a bit. You might not understand how employment works here in the US though... An employee costs somewhere around 1.25 to 1.4 times more than their salary and that is due to employment taxes, benefits, and insurances that all employers are required to have. This would only be for full time employees though. A lot of that cost isn't incurred on contractors, but you generally pay them higher as they have to seek out their own benefits.
And you think it is different in Europe? It just goes under a different name.
If Arena Net was not doing good with Guild Wars 2 would they have a hire list as shown here. No they would not they would be letting go of alot of the 200+ employees.
A hiring list can be indicative of a lot of things and isn't always a sign of how a company is doing. ArenaNet is known to have a large turnover rate. It also pays less than a lot of major studios. Read their profile on glassdoor.com. I am not saying that it is doing bad either so don't jump to that conclusion.
A game like SWTOR is rumored to have development cost of over $100M and up to $200M.
At its peak, there was 650+ people working on it.
They also have much more cinematics and probably more voice overs as well.
I doubt my estimates are far off the real number, especially considering that for the first part of the 5 years development time they had a much smaller team and some people were affected to GW1 and some moved on NCSoft West,
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
WoW might have sold 3.5m copies but that was including China too. This article talks about the fastest selling MMO in the West so I guess its claims are correct.
However, there is one huge caveat for me. WoW is a real full-blooded MMO. In order to play WoW back then you had to buy the box and pay a subscription (as is still the case today). A lot of people wouldn't buy WoW because of the subscription fee. If WoW didn't have a sub at launch, it would have sold probably double or triple that.
GW2 on the other hand is just like any other game. You buy the box, you keep it forever. Not saying that's bad, it's just not what I would traditionally associate with an MMO, esppecially back then. This greatly affects the willingness of people to buy the game. If it had a sub, it probably wouldn't even break the 1.5m target
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by expresso Think Blizzard might disgree. just saying
Expansions don't count. Vanilla WoW didn't sell 3 millions within a year..
And why expansions don't count? or we count expansions only when it is convenient to make case in favor of GW2?
expansions only count when we are talking about boxes gw1 sold.
GW2 had 3 standalone campaigns, you could buy any of them and play, they were the core content. Eye of the north however was an expansion, it expanded Tyria.
If Anet stopped giving all this ass to online parties and festivals in gw2 and focused on actual meaningful content like they once did,I bet they'll get way more active players.
Here's to hoping Jennah's jubilee is the last crappy festival we've got to put up with.Still,congrats on the new achievement Arena u guys deserve it.Whatever the hell else is wrong with the game,the gw2 devs team is by far the best I've seen in any mmo =3
They have around 30 programmers - lets say they earn an average of 70K a year. So that is $10M, give or take.
They also have around 30 artists. Lets say an average of 40K a year. that is another $6M.
If the other 100 employees earned $25K, that is another $12.5M.
So $30M to $50M tops.
They have no crazy expensive cinematics, they reused part of the engine and they already had a decent network infrastructure.
They also move some people to NCSoft West and whatnot.
Do you think NCSoft would invest $100M in a game?
So now you've actually thought about expenditure of a company your estimates have gone up to 30 to 50 million? the problem is you've only covered known wages what about all the other expenses? Customers service, PR, contracters, rent, amenities, advertising in the EU and US, travelling and paying for gaming shows like E3, Gamescon etc.. you've also left out the biggest wages of the team leaders and bosses. There are others but that'll do for now. Also by my calculations the game has made 229 billion Won since release, that translates to $205 million but also from your own admission Arenanet are now way bigger an entity so costs of running the company have escalated, their yearly costs have gone up considerably while revenue is falling.
Could this be the reason for the "course correction" and the PR spin in this article as their initial buoyancy from the initial income is not there anymore and they have to find ways to stablise the fall before it becomes serious? Oh! and Aion reportedly costs $100m and my fellings of the cost of advertising the game is about all costs including all PR. The film Green Lantern cost $150 million but worldwide advertising pushed that number to $300 million, don't underestimate the costs of getting your product out there. Remember I'm not criticising the GW2 or whether it has made its money back its more about the PR spin to overshadow the changes and falling revenue, its about the future of the game and next quarter reports will tell us if the "course correction" has worked.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Nice box sales, but box sales does not make a good game, look at TOR, 2 million box sales and we all know how that turd turned out..
Out of all those box sales how many people are still playing and buying things out of the store to keep the game, going for long term profit ? The box sales are a good spike, but what about a year from now ?
Not sure why people would try to compare WoW at release to GW2 at release. Back when WoW released how many people were really playing online games as compared to today. Half a Million back then was hugh...now that is crap numbers. WoW pretty much created the environment for people to get 3 million box sales today.
Why is there even a discussion about Blizzard vs Arenanet?
9 years X 12 months X 12.95 ( -1month free and 3 months still to go for 9 yr anniversary) = $1346.80
Paying $1400 for a game makes all Wow fans losers.
(Of course that assumes one account, base game, 6 month subs, and no expansions purchased... but how many Wow fans were that smart? It's actually much higher for 99% of you.)
Nice box sales, but box sales does not make a good game, look at TOR, 2 million box sales and we all know how that turd turned out..
Out of all those box sales how many people are still playing and buying things out of the store to keep the game, going for long term profit ? The box sales are a good spike, but what about a year from now ?
Your analogy might make sense if GW2 was also a sub based (turned f2p) gear grinding game with trinity, raids, and quest hubs. However GW2 is none of those things. The only thing these two games have in common is that they are both MMO's, just like the only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they are both fruit.
GW2 is a decent game (nothing too special) and it is buy to play. It was obvious it was going to sell milliond of copies. The point is though how many of those players are still playing (I quit after a month from release for example)
Nice box sales, but box sales does not make a good game, look at TOR, 2 million box sales and we all know how that turd turned out..
Out of all those box sales how many people are still playing and buying things out of the store to keep the game, going for long term profit ? The box sales are a good spike, but what about a year from now ?
Your analogy might make sense if GW2 was also a sub based (turned f2p) gear grinding game with trinity, raids, and quest hubs. However GW2 is none of those things. The only thing these two games have in common is that they are both MMO's, just like the only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they are both fruit.
This is actually a very naive way to look at it. It ignores the culture of media & hype that builds around these new games. They do not exist in a vacuum.
Furthermore, Guild Wars 2 may not have the exact same systems in place, but they're designed to cater to a very similar audience. As ArenaNet has shown us, time gating content isn't an exclusive feature to subscription games or raiding content.
So to clarify, he wasn't making an analogy. He was citing an example from a similar circumstance. And he's right in his conclusion, which was that the sales figures for a buy to play MMO mean nothing. He didn't say it was necessarily negative, but that you're probably foolish for thinking that 3 million sales translates into concurrent or returning users. The actual number is likely far lower.
Nice box sales, but box sales does not make a good game, look at TOR, 2 million box sales and we all know how that turd turned out..
Out of all those box sales how many people are still playing and buying things out of the store to keep the game, going for long term profit ? The box sales are a good spike, but what about a year from now ?
Your analogy might make sense if GW2 was also a sub based (turned f2p) gear grinding game with trinity, raids, and quest hubs. However GW2 is none of those things. The only thing these two games have in common is that they are both MMO's, just like the only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they are both fruit.
This is actually a very naive way to look at it. It ignores the culture of media & hype that builds around these new games. They do not exist in a vacuum.
Furthermore, Guild Wars 2 may not have the exact same systems in place, but they're designed to cater to a very similar audience. As ArenaNet has shown us, time gating content isn't an exclusive feature to subscription games or raiding content.
So to clarify, he wasn't making an analogy. He was citing an example from a similar circumstance. And he's right in his conclusion, which was that the sales figures for a buy to play MMO mean nothing. He didn't say it was necessarily negative, but that you're probably foolish for thinking that 3 million sales translates into concurrent or returning users. The actual number is likely far lower.
The title of the thread is, "Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in history" and not "Speculation on active users". Concurrent or returning users has nothing to do with their sales number. Theorizing on active players is futile and pure speculation for those who are pro or against GW2 until Anet puts out an official message. The only thing official we have now is what this thread OP is about. Seems cut and dry to me. Call me crazy.
Why is there even a discussion about Blizzard vs Arenanet?
9 years X 12 months X 12.95 ( -1month free and 3 months still to go for 9 yr anniversary) = $1346.80
Paying $1400 for a game makes all Wow fans losers.
(Of course that assumes one account, base game, 6 month subs, and no expansions purchased... but how many Wow fans were that smart? It's actually much higher for 99% of you.)
Fools/money...you know the saying. Not saying it applies to you, just that it applies.
Anyway, this thread is full of derp. 2+ pages of someone talking about WoW expansions proving this article wrong as if WoW even had an expansion 9 months after release...just goes to show how great GW2 is, got them WoW kiddies all up in a bunch.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I too foolishly bought this game because of the hype and boredom. That and I bought it for the pvp side of the game I had not intended to play the MMO side. That said, the pvp side of the game was horrible so I rolled a character to max level and I did that just to try to squeeze my money's worth out of it. After that I dropped it. I will NEVER EVER buy another Arena Net game. I have never spent so much money for a pile of trash.
What is sad is I actually got more enjoyment from SWTOR than GW2. So yeah I am sure they sold a ton of copies because GW1 was a great game but GW2 I wouldn't give away to my enemy.
Comments
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
20-30 million in adds?
Who is insane here?
How much do you thing programmers make?
Arenanet not to long ago had 163 employees ( http://www.giantbomb.com/arenanet-inc/3010-306/) and only recently surpassed 300.
They have around 30 programmers - lets say they earn an average of 70K a year. So that is $10M, give or take.
They also have around 30 artists. Lets say an average of 40K a year. that is another $6M.
If the other 100 employees earned $25K, that is another $12.5M.
So $30M to $50M tops.
They have no crazy expensive cinematics, they reused part of the engine and they already had a decent network infrastructure.
They also move some people to NCSoft West and whatnot.
Do you think NCSoft would invest $100M in a game?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Your numbers are off by quite a bit. You might not understand how employment works here in the US though... An employee costs somewhere around 1.25 to 1.4 times more than their salary and that is due to employment taxes, benefits, and insurances that all employers are required to have. This would only be for full time employees though. A lot of that cost isn't incurred on contractors, but you generally pay them higher as they have to seek out their own benefits.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Sigh. People on this site are some of the rudest and most jaded players I've ever seen. Seriously? Is Anet not allowed to be part of a major accomplishment?
But no. All of you have to come here and take a big shit all over the news because "my game is better." Grow up.
Congrats Anet. Y'all deserve it.
And you think it is different in Europe? It just goes under a different name.
But just to quote you.
A game like SWTOR is rumored to have development cost of over $100M and up to $200M.
At its peak, there was 650+ people working on it.
They also have much more cinematics and probably more voice overs as well.
I doubt my estimates are far off the real number, especially considering that for the first part of the 5 years development time they had a much smaller team and some people were affected to GW1 and some moved on NCSoft West,
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I'll be impressed if it has 6 million people playing 9 years from now.
Until then, not so much.
ZING..... +1. You are right though, time is true test.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
"Guild Wars 2 is statistically the fastest selling MMO"
Not surprising considering how stable it has been, and how much gameplay it offers.
expansions only count when we are talking about boxes gw1 sold.
WoW might have sold 3.5m copies but that was including China too. This article talks about the fastest selling MMO in the West so I guess its claims are correct.
However, there is one huge caveat for me. WoW is a real full-blooded MMO. In order to play WoW back then you had to buy the box and pay a subscription (as is still the case today). A lot of people wouldn't buy WoW because of the subscription fee. If WoW didn't have a sub at launch, it would have sold probably double or triple that.
GW2 on the other hand is just like any other game. You buy the box, you keep it forever. Not saying that's bad, it's just not what I would traditionally associate with an MMO, esppecially back then. This greatly affects the willingness of people to buy the game. If it had a sub, it probably wouldn't even break the 1.5m target
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
That is because most of those boxes are stand alone and sold for standalone price.
But aside from some silly people, number of boxes and number of players have always been a different thing.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
GW2 had 3 standalone campaigns, you could buy any of them and play, they were the core content. Eye of the north however was an expansion, it expanded Tyria.
If Anet stopped giving all this ass to online parties and festivals in gw2 and focused on actual meaningful content like they once did,I bet they'll get way more active players.
Here's to hoping Jennah's jubilee is the last crappy festival we've got to put up with.Still,congrats on the new achievement Arena u guys deserve it.Whatever the hell else is wrong with the game,the gw2 devs team is by far the best I've seen in any mmo =3
So now you've actually thought about expenditure of a company your estimates have gone up to 30 to 50 million? the problem is you've only covered known wages what about all the other expenses? Customers service, PR, contracters, rent, amenities, advertising in the EU and US, travelling and paying for gaming shows like E3, Gamescon etc.. you've also left out the biggest wages of the team leaders and bosses. There are others but that'll do for now. Also by my calculations the game has made 229 billion Won since release, that translates to $205 million but also from your own admission Arenanet are now way bigger an entity so costs of running the company have escalated, their yearly costs have gone up considerably while revenue is falling.
Could this be the reason for the "course correction" and the PR spin in this article as their initial buoyancy from the initial income is not there anymore and they have to find ways to stablise the fall before it becomes serious? Oh! and Aion reportedly costs $100m and my fellings of the cost of advertising the game is about all costs including all PR. The film Green Lantern cost $150 million but worldwide advertising pushed that number to $300 million, don't underestimate the costs of getting your product out there. Remember I'm not criticising the GW2 or whether it has made its money back its more about the PR spin to overshadow the changes and falling revenue, its about the future of the game and next quarter reports will tell us if the "course correction" has worked.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Nice box sales, but box sales does not make a good game, look at TOR, 2 million box sales and we all know how that turd turned out..
Out of all those box sales how many people are still playing and buying things out of the store to keep the game, going for long term profit ? The box sales are a good spike, but what about a year from now ?
Why is there even a discussion about Blizzard vs Arenanet?
9 years X 12 months X 12.95 ( -1month free and 3 months still to go for 9 yr anniversary) = $1346.80
Paying $1400 for a game makes all Wow fans losers.
(Of course that assumes one account, base game, 6 month subs, and no expansions purchased... but how many Wow fans were that smart? It's actually much higher for 99% of you.)
Your analogy might make sense if GW2 was also a sub based (turned f2p) gear grinding game with trinity, raids, and quest hubs. However GW2 is none of those things. The only thing these two games have in common is that they are both MMO's, just like the only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they are both fruit.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
This is actually a very naive way to look at it. It ignores the culture of media & hype that builds around these new games. They do not exist in a vacuum.
Furthermore, Guild Wars 2 may not have the exact same systems in place, but they're designed to cater to a very similar audience. As ArenaNet has shown us, time gating content isn't an exclusive feature to subscription games or raiding content.
So to clarify, he wasn't making an analogy. He was citing an example from a similar circumstance. And he's right in his conclusion, which was that the sales figures for a buy to play MMO mean nothing. He didn't say it was necessarily negative, but that you're probably foolish for thinking that 3 million sales translates into concurrent or returning users. The actual number is likely far lower.
The title of the thread is, "Guild Wars 2: Fastest-Selling MMO in history" and not "Speculation on active users". Concurrent or returning users has nothing to do with their sales number. Theorizing on active players is futile and pure speculation for those who are pro or against GW2 until Anet puts out an official message. The only thing official we have now is what this thread OP is about. Seems cut and dry to me. Call me crazy.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
If I have 2 choices:
1) Get payed $1400/month by Anet to play GW2
2) Pay 10x more (monthly) to Blizzard to play Wow
I'll gladly choose option 2.
Fools/money...you know the saying. Not saying it applies to you, just that it applies.
Anyway, this thread is full of derp. 2+ pages of someone talking about WoW expansions proving this article wrong as if WoW even had an expansion 9 months after release...just goes to show how great GW2 is, got them WoW kiddies all up in a bunch.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I too foolishly bought this game because of the hype and boredom. That and I bought it for the pvp side of the game I had not intended to play the MMO side. That said, the pvp side of the game was horrible so I rolled a character to max level and I did that just to try to squeeze my money's worth out of it. After that I dropped it. I will NEVER EVER buy another Arena Net game. I have never spent so much money for a pile of trash.
What is sad is I actually got more enjoyment from SWTOR than GW2. So yeah I am sure they sold a ton of copies because GW1 was a great game but GW2 I wouldn't give away to my enemy.