Originally posted by LeGrosGamer I seriously don't know what's more disturbing, the artwork that means nothing or the fact that 80% of male gamers play as female characters walking around in almost bare naked armor that are most likely protecting male characters armored to the teeth? If you want to talk about sexism, at least go to the core.
pff... realism. You mean the same male chars that move, fight, run and even swim in head to toe fullplate armor as if they are wearing nothing at all, switch said types of armor and climb on horses on their own, without squires help? And even if all that would be placed in game like its for real: Your armor or lack of it would mean nothing if a castletower sized dragon descides to step onto you.
But if the ingame art/armors in EQN is similar boring to EQ2 you won't have to worry one bit anyway about the (in)famous bikinichainmail/similar outside the occasional NPC or promotional artwork.
Faces are painted in a dilletante way: Blonde elf, ork, dwarf, kobold are failures.
Scene doesn't make sense regarding physical logic:
The original scene painted by Keith Parkinson was set down in a valley. This scene now is on a peak, but without paying attention to it: There are no such small ponds on a peak like seen on the right of the painting.
Shadows are not coherent.
The dragon would not be able to sit there on the edge of the peak, he would fall down.
The composition, the positioning of the characters relative to each other, is crap. Kobold, dwarf, ork and Kerran don't seem to correspond to each other, they are single elements looking as if they were added as an afterthought. Very bad!
Problems with feet / boots: Kerran, dwarf
Blonde elf (Fiorina Vie?): "sword" (no comment), bowstring is on the wrong side of the hand, the quiver can not be worn like this by a female.
- Sexism:
There is no equality regarding gender!
The front row is occupied by females. The only male humanlike is hiding behind another female. Other males are poorly painted animal races. The subtext is obvious: Women rule this peak, the only man is only a side-note (tolerated as someone standing behind a woman, looking into the distance without interfering with the scene), and the other maleness is depicted as rude, brainless savagery.
There is a clear focus on the female characters which are painted with much more love to detail, combining the grace of female "tenderness" with virile power (note the male leg of the female fighter to the right!).
I admit that the fantasy genre has been very patriarchal, but that was reflecting the medieval society and the target group. Things have changed and this is good, but that style is not only going over the top, but much worse than any art produced in the past.
It is bad art.
Amylion.
EDIT:
PS: Of course the depiction of half-nude women is sexist, too.
But I personally would prefer half-naked men over being cut out of the picture.
Sexism?
Grow up!
you might not like the art style which is fine.
But to comment on sexism and not mention the poor taste animal cruelty or the obvious dig at short people. And what about the poor ugly guy on the right with buck teeth? Or the obvious dig at blondes? she is trying to wield a two handed bow and a huge sword at the same time....something only a blonde would do!
But no the art is sexist lol.
Seriously though. If there are elements that will pull in the old crowd it is pictures like this. Like said previously, a throw back to the old eq pictures. Something that will get the fans of the older game interested one way or another.
Grow up? That isn't the type of accusation kids throw around...
Well... Okay... I am an artist, and I have to agree, partially, with the OP on this.
The most jarring things about this piece is the complete and total lack of flowing composition and the complete and total lack of balanced light values. All you see is color, and the whole thing is very, very hard to read. Your eyes simply do not find depth in the picture, because there is no cohesive light value. And because of the poor composition, your eyes just wander all over the place, never finding a true focal point.
If it weren't for the fact that EQ art direction has always had this heir of crappiness to it, I would say that this entire piece is downright amateur - just as I've always thought. But since EQ has a history of having really bad art, and the fact that because of its crappiness, it is very memorable... I have to assume it is done on purpose. And it is. Which... doesn't really make it good.
This picture makes more sense if you consider it to be something like an Egyptian Hieroglyph. It's not meant, really, to be capturing a scene in an instance of time. It's meant to tell a story in a different sense - like a Mural on a wall or a vase, so to speak. What that story is, I have no idea as there is no accompanying text that explains who these characters are and what their station is. More than likely, it doesn't matter.
In the past, I have seen EQ art and then compared that to the in-game art direction and thought, "They need to revamp their entire art department from the ground up. Everything looks stupid and has no frame of reference to a noticable theme." However, having seen the in-game footage of EQN... I am going to just let this picture slide. They are pulling off some pretty rad design in EQN as far as I can tell. The whole thing is looking like some Disney Pixar awesomeness if you ask me - this picture aside, of course.
As for the Sexism - that's just Video Game and Pop Culture marketing. Everyone has this common fantasy: hot girls who can kick butt. Why everyone? Because guys fantasize about hot girls in any context. Girls fantasize about kicking butt equal to a man, but doing so while looking good because they are obsessed with how they look.
And so is it sexist? Absolutely. Does anyone care? Absolutely not. Why? Because this meets the expectations of the common fantasy. But rest assured, if this were the other way around... Feminists the world over would complain to no end about it. Welcome to the reality of the double standard.
In my honest opinion the cover art is really bad, and even politically incorrect: It shows a sexist notion hostile towards men.
There is no equality regarding gender!
The front row is occupied by females. The only male humanlike is hiding behind another female. Other males are poorly painted animal races. The subtext is obvious: Women rule this peak, the only man is only a side-note (tolerated as someone standing behind a woman, looking into the distance without interfering with the scene), and the other maleness is depicted as rude, brainless savagery.
There is a clear focus on the female characters which are painted with much more love to detail, combining the grace of female "tenderness" with virile power (note the male leg of the female fighter to the right!).
I admit that the fantasy genre has been very patriarchal, but that was reflecting the medieval society and the target group. Things have changed and this is good, but that style is not only going over the top, but much worse than any art produced in the past.
I'm 100% on you side, but this picture is probably the wrong spot to complain about feminism in fantasy culture. This picture features these annoying woman-empowerment-characters fantasy art is full of, but I don't really see how it is anti-men. Yes, the ogre is a guy, an he is proud to be born this way, I believe. The problem is hard to understand without the whole background.
Feminism is a hostile sexist ideology that has contaminated all of society. Feminists take the old racist "black men want to rape white woman." hate-trope and just broaden the group they hate to: "all men want to rape all woman."
Feminism rarely shows its face that explicit, it slowly has invaded every aspect of society including the fantasy genre. Fantasy writing and films are full of "strong woman characters" whose sole purpose is to hammer down a anti-men agenda and display the superiority of women towards men. Just look at Xena, Charmed and Buffy. The whole fantasy genre is full of them and they annoy me to hell. Even the great George R. R. Martin can't do without several characters dedicated to display how men are responsible for all evil in the world while woman are morally superior beings.
All this would only be annoying if it would not lay the ground for the feminist apartheid our society is drifting towards, where men are marginalized and woman are favoured in every way possible.
Well... Okay... I am an artist, and I have to agree, partially, with the OP on this.
yeah, that's one way to come off as a douche in a hurry.
let me tell you, IM AN ARTIST and i disagree, i am the authority on this subject because i am, an artist.
No, this isnt sexist. Get over your stupid self righteous cause. i know its hard, not having any real problems about sexism so you have to go and find them in harmless art, its pretty pathetic really.
I'm 100% on you side, but this picture is probably the wrong spot to complain about feminism in fantasy culture. This picture features these annoying woman-empowerment-characters fantasy art is full of, but I don't really see how it is anti-men. Yes, the ogre is a guy, an he is proud to be born this way, I believe. The problem is hard to understand without the whole background.
Feminism is a hostile sexist ideology that has contaminated all of society. Feminists take the old racist "black men want to rape white woman." hate-trope and just broaden the group they hate to: "all men want to rape all woman."
Feminism rarely shows its face that explicit, it slowly has invaded every aspect of society including the fantasy genre. Fantasy writing and films are full of "strong woman characters" whose sole purpose is to hammer down a anti-men agenda and display the superiority of women towards men. Just look at Xena, Charmed and Buffy. The whole fantasy genre is full of them and they annoy me to hell. Even the great George R. R. Martin can't do without several characters dedicated to display how men are responsible for all evil in the world while woman are morally superior beings.
All this would only be annoying if it would not lay the ground for the feminist apartheid our society is drifting towards, where men are marginalized and woman are favoured in every way possible.
Just lol.
Too bad people are going to take your post for real.
God this thread is stupid.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
As an artist myself, I could rip this painting apart bit by bit, but what's the point? It's a painting for a computer game. On a similar note, we are on the internet of all places, there's bad art on every page, and I do mean, Every... Single... Page... But I digress. . .
When I look at most paintings I am looking at how it is done or how it can be improved, but this is usually what I am like with my own work. I don't care about that whole sexism issue, can men and women just wear whatever?
My only question is that sort of 'sexual' pose with the male and female in the middle... could me just being dirty minded though!
On another note there are a lot of amazing artists out there that don't get paid anything, wonder how much this person got?
I didn't bother to read through all of this so if it has been mentioned already I apologize.
Since when do fantasy worlds have to adhere to our social structure? So what if it's sexist? It's not real. Spending time in this world is a choice. In most stories about Amazons, the men are simply slaves only there for breeding. By reading/supporting these stories am I suddenly supporting the slavery of all men? That's how ridiculous this is. Unbelievable.
Check the bow string, they are different..... Load both images up in different windows and toggle between them.. There have been a few edits to the Firiona Character.
1 "Lack of talent" Unless you can show us evidence that your artistic ability makes this artist look like a 5 year old, I don't think you can say that, even then, the quality of art is a matter of opinion. Subject matter & quality of craftsmanship are 2 different things you should keep separate. (opinion)
2 Don"t like it, don't buy it. it is that simple. (democracy)
3 Berkeley California just called from its iphone in its Prius and want's to know if you are coming over for a tie dye work shop tonight & eat wheat grass , gluten free pizza. (closer to reality than you might think)
4. I still find humanity is a little sad for the fact that we tend to be afraid of sex (even though we all want it & it takes sex to make people) and at the same time we approve of the murder, death, kill style of culture (games, books, movies, etc....) (opinion)
in conclusion, I give to you a big fat 80's style.......... "What-ever!"
Originally posted by Amylion Hi!In my honest opinion the cover art is really bad, and even politically incorrect: It shows a sexist notion hostile towards men.*Original size here:http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1992/2513130-firiona.jpg- Bad style: Faces are painted in a dilletante way: Blonde elf, ork, dwarf, kobold are failures. Scene doesn't make sense regarding physical logic: The original scene painted by Keith Parkinson was set down in a valley. This scene now is on a peak, but without paying attention to it: There are no such small ponds on a peak like seen on the right of the painting. Shadows are not coherent. The dragon would not be able to sit there on the edge of the peak, he would fall down. The composition, the positioning of the characters relative to each other, is crap. Kobold, dwarf, ork and Kerran don't seem to correspond to each other, they are single elements looking as if they were added as an afterthought. Very bad! Problems with feet / boots: Kerran, dwarf Blonde elf (Fiorina Vie?): "sword" (no comment), bowstring is on the wrong side of the hand, the quiver can not be worn like this by a female.- Sexism:There is no equality regarding gender!The front row is occupied by females. The only male humanlike is hiding behind another female. Other males are poorly painted animal races. The subtext is obvious: Women rule this peak, the only man is only a side-note (tolerated as someone standing behind a woman, looking into the distance without interfering with the scene), and the other maleness is depicted as rude, brainless savagery.There is a clear focus on the female characters which are painted with much more love to detail, combining the grace of female "tenderness" with virile power (note the male leg of the female fighter to the right!).I admit that the fantasy genre has been very patriarchal, but that was reflecting the medieval society and the target group. Things have changed and this is good, but that style is not only going over the top, but much worse than any art produced in the past.It is bad art. Amylion.EDIT:PS: Of course the depiction of half-nude women is sexist, too.But I personally would prefer half-naked men over being cut out of the picture.* EDIT 2:PPS: I changed my mind, I don't see a sexist notion hostile towards man, but a serious imbalance regarding female / male models."My point is that positive male models are very important especially for young men.The new cover art picture contrary to the original art shows a lack of possibilities to connect their psychological identities."
lol. Its just concept art man :P
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i think the art looks horrid to but you missed the dragon it looks more goldfish than awe inspireing fv is fairly well covered compared to the others but meh who cares the origional and far better one was sexist to both and it was great
Comments
pff... realism. You mean the same male chars that move, fight, run and even swim in head to toe fullplate armor as if they are wearing nothing at all, switch said types of armor and climb on horses on their own, without squires help? And even if all that would be placed in game like its for real: Your armor or lack of it would mean nothing if a castletower sized dragon descides to step onto you.
But if the ingame art/armors in EQN is similar boring to EQ2 you won't have to worry one bit anyway about the (in)famous bikinichainmail/similar outside the occasional NPC or promotional artwork.
Grow up? That isn't the type of accusation kids throw around...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Well... Okay... I am an artist, and I have to agree, partially, with the OP on this.
The most jarring things about this piece is the complete and total lack of flowing composition and the complete and total lack of balanced light values. All you see is color, and the whole thing is very, very hard to read. Your eyes simply do not find depth in the picture, because there is no cohesive light value. And because of the poor composition, your eyes just wander all over the place, never finding a true focal point.
If it weren't for the fact that EQ art direction has always had this heir of crappiness to it, I would say that this entire piece is downright amateur - just as I've always thought. But since EQ has a history of having really bad art, and the fact that because of its crappiness, it is very memorable... I have to assume it is done on purpose. And it is. Which... doesn't really make it good.
This picture makes more sense if you consider it to be something like an Egyptian Hieroglyph. It's not meant, really, to be capturing a scene in an instance of time. It's meant to tell a story in a different sense - like a Mural on a wall or a vase, so to speak. What that story is, I have no idea as there is no accompanying text that explains who these characters are and what their station is. More than likely, it doesn't matter.
In the past, I have seen EQ art and then compared that to the in-game art direction and thought, "They need to revamp their entire art department from the ground up. Everything looks stupid and has no frame of reference to a noticable theme." However, having seen the in-game footage of EQN... I am going to just let this picture slide. They are pulling off some pretty rad design in EQN as far as I can tell. The whole thing is looking like some Disney Pixar awesomeness if you ask me - this picture aside, of course.
As for the Sexism - that's just Video Game and Pop Culture marketing. Everyone has this common fantasy: hot girls who can kick butt. Why everyone? Because guys fantasize about hot girls in any context. Girls fantasize about kicking butt equal to a man, but doing so while looking good because they are obsessed with how they look.
And so is it sexist? Absolutely. Does anyone care? Absolutely not. Why? Because this meets the expectations of the common fantasy. But rest assured, if this were the other way around... Feminists the world over would complain to no end about it. Welcome to the reality of the double standard.
I'm 100% on you side, but this picture is probably the wrong spot to complain about feminism in fantasy culture. This picture features these annoying woman-empowerment-characters fantasy art is full of, but I don't really see how it is anti-men. Yes, the ogre is a guy, an he is proud to be born this way, I believe.
The problem is hard to understand without the whole background.
Feminism is a hostile sexist ideology that has contaminated all of society. Feminists take the old racist "black men want to rape white woman." hate-trope and just broaden the group they hate to: "all men want to rape all woman."
Feminism rarely shows its face that explicit, it slowly has invaded every aspect of society including the fantasy genre. Fantasy writing and films are full of "strong woman characters" whose sole purpose is to hammer down a anti-men agenda and display the superiority of women towards men. Just look at Xena, Charmed and Buffy. The whole fantasy genre is full of them and they annoy me to hell. Even the great George R. R. Martin can't do without several characters dedicated to display how men are responsible for all evil in the world while woman are morally superior beings.
All this would only be annoying if it would not lay the ground for the feminist apartheid our society is drifting towards, where men are marginalized and woman are favoured in every way possible.
the new artwork you can tell is more about motion and action, you can see how the old artwork is slower and more subdued.
seems right to me.
played a million mmo's
yeah, that's one way to come off as a douche in a hurry.
let me tell you, IM AN ARTIST and i disagree, i am the authority on this subject because i am, an artist.
No, this isnt sexist. Get over your stupid self righteous cause. i know its hard, not having any real problems about sexism so you have to go and find them in harmless art, its pretty pathetic really.
Just lol.
Too bad people are going to take your post for real.
God this thread is stupid.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Some people are entirely too full of themselves when looking for faults in work they cannot themselves do.
That's my only comment on the thread itself.
As far as the artwork, why is nobody looking at the dragon? It's a freaking dragon.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
As an artist myself, I could rip this painting apart bit by bit, but what's the point? It's a painting for a computer game. On a similar note, we are on the internet of all places, there's bad art on every page, and I do mean, Every... Single... Page... But I digress. . .
I just find it funny Fiorina Vie has "Man Hands".
When I look at most paintings I am looking at how it is done or how it can be improved, but this is usually what I am like with my own work. I don't care about that whole sexism issue, can men and women just wear whatever?
My only question is that sort of 'sexual' pose with the male and female in the middle... could me just being dirty minded though!
On another note there are a lot of amazing artists out there that don't get paid anything, wonder how much this person got?
I didn't bother to read through all of this so if it has been mentioned already I apologize.
Since when do fantasy worlds have to adhere to our social structure? So what if it's sexist? It's not real. Spending time in this world is a choice. In most stories about Amazons, the men are simply slaves only there for breeding. By reading/supporting these stories am I suddenly supporting the slavery of all men? That's how ridiculous this is. Unbelievable.
OP's Link: http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1992/2513130-firiona.jpg
Offical Link to same image: https://www.everquestnext.com/img/media/wallpapers/download/large/4.jpg
Check the bow string, they are different..... Load both images up in different windows and toggle between them.. There have been a few edits to the Firiona Character.
okay, I'll jump in too.
1 "Lack of talent" Unless you can show us evidence that your artistic ability makes this artist look like a 5 year old, I don't think you can say that, even then, the quality of art is a matter of opinion. Subject matter & quality of craftsmanship are 2 different things you should keep separate. (opinion)
2 Don"t like it, don't buy it. it is that simple. (democracy)
3 Berkeley California just called from its iphone in its Prius and want's to know if you are coming over for a tie dye work shop tonight & eat wheat grass , gluten free pizza. (closer to reality than you might think)
4. I still find humanity is a little sad for the fact that we tend to be afraid of sex (even though we all want it & it takes sex to make people) and at the same time we approve of the murder, death, kill style of culture (games, books, movies, etc....) (opinion)
in conclusion, I give to you a big fat 80's style.......... "What-ever!"
lol. Its just concept art man :P
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