Apology to SWG remaining players and SOE/la

bugzonlsd · December 2005

Many people may find this post unbelievable, as some of you know I (like many others)have come down on the recent changes in SWG and the company SOE/La pretty hard via posting in forums and such. No, I'm not changing my opinion on it, I'm just better then trashing a game and the makers and know when enough is enough.

When we do this we are not only affecting the company and people who have jobs there that brought us a fairly decent game with the exception of the bugs but the remaining playerbase as well. If everyone else wants to go on trashing and flaming thats up to you guys but I'll be first I guess to come out and apologize for some of the things I've said towards someones work, because thats what it is, someones vision or someones fun. Although I donot share that vision I'm not going to try to tear whats left of it down. So here it is SOE/LA, my apologies to you and to the remaining playerbase trying to make the best out of what you have.

Good luck with SWG in the future & Happy holidays to you all

Chastity · December 2005

SOE has a very simple solution to avoid people trashing them.

Don't do things that are worthy of being trashed for.

If this latest expansion is someone's work, it's crappy work. Crappy work they're charging for. Merits of what the NGE is trying to achieve aside (and there reasonable people can differ--I don't like what I'm seeing but others do; vive la differance), they released something that wasn't ready to be released and they sprung it on the player base in a way that any cretin could have seen was going to produce a customer relations firestorm. The solution to these problems was quite simple.

(1) Don't do crappy work and people won't attack you for doing crappy work. Release work that's been properly debugged and tested.

(2) Don't crap on your playerbase, and they won't crap back on you.

SOE has NEVER been able to grasp these fairly simple concepts of good business practice. They're finally getting their long delayed payback for doing this kind of thing time and time again, and IMHO justice has rarely been better served.

I can appreciate the desire to be all Christmassy and fair here, but let's call a spade a spade. This is SOE's screwup. It IS a screwup. They deserve what they're getting.

--Chastity Nightdancer

Scorpes · December 2005

Couldnt agree more with the previous poster. The fact of the matter is if any of us do poor work there are consequences to that. Being demoted, redeployed, benefits/perks cut, or even fired. SOE has forgotten that we the customers pay their bills. We send their kids to private schools and drive SUV's, enjoy the cheesecake of the month club and go to day spa's. That is the reward/benefit of doing quality work and keeping your customers happy.

Excuses will not save their jobs, being in the holiday seasons and saying lets all hold hands and sing koombaya will not save their jobs. Good work is the only thing that will keep them working not good feelings.

kjfett · December 2005

Our complaining isn't putting their job on the line. Our complaining is a consequence of poor programming and vision on SOE's part. SOE's poor programming and lack of vision is why their jobs are on the line. You can be all apologetic and run away if you like. You are certianly welcome to do so, but don't try to put some guilt trip on those of us that are not pulling our tails between our legs and running.

SOE slipped a dirty, bloody bandage in my desert of relaxation fun. I'll be damned if I'm not going to complain and demand their job on a platter for their bad ethics. No, I won't slip their bad works in a napkin so the other customers won't know, pay my bill and slip out the side door.

haxxjoo · December 2005

Originally posted by bugzonlsd

Many people may find this post unbelievable, as some of you know I (like many others)have come down on the recent changes in SWG and the company SOE/La pretty hard via posting in forums and such. No, I'm not changing my opinion on it, I'm just better then trashing a game and the makers and know when enough is enough.
When we do this we are not only affecting the company and people who have jobs there that brought us a fairly decent game with the exception of the bugs but the remaining playerbase as well. If everyone else wants to go on trashing and flaming thats up to you guys but I'll be first I guess to come out and apologize for some of the things I've said towards someones work, because thats what it is, someones vision or someones fun. Although I donot share that vision I'm not going to try to tear whats left of it down. So here it is SOE/LA, my apologies to you and to the remaining playerbase trying to make the best out of what you have.
Good luck with SWG in the future & Happy holidays to you all

I wont appologize to SOE/LA. I dont owe them anything. "trashing" a game and others work is perfectly reasonable especially if the complaints are factual. I don't feel bad for SOE/LA. They dont feel bad for me. They had no problem trashing veterns and forum posting customers. Two way street.

But good luck and happy holidays to you!

Scaris · December 2005

Originally posted by Chastity
SOE has a very simple solution to avoid people trashing them.
Don't do things that are worthy of being trashed for.
If this latest expansion is someone's work, it's crappy work. Crappy work they're charging for. Merits of what the NGE is trying to achieve aside (and there reasonable people can differ--I don't like what I'm seeing but others do; vive la differance), they released something that wasn't ready to be released and they sprung it on the player base in a way that any cretin could have seen was going to produce a customer relations firestorm. The solution to these problems was quite simple.
(1) Don't do crappy work and people won't attack you for doing crappy work. Release work that's been properly debugged and tested.
(2) Don't crap on your playerbase, and they won't crap back on you.
SOE has NEVER been able to grasp these fairly simple concepts of good business practice. They're finally getting their long delayed payback for doing this kind of thing time and time again, and IMHO justice has rarely been better served.
I can appreciate the desire to be all Christmassy and fair here, but let's call a spade a spade. This is SOE's screwup. It IS a screwup. They deserve what they're getting.
--Chastity Nightdancer

Thank you, well said. I think I will just say "what ^she said".

Elnator · December 2005

I'm sorry. I'm a firm believer in honest and open criticizm. The problem with today's society is that people "feel bad" for being honest in their opinions of things. This just should not be. If someone makes a HORRIBLE mistake you need to TELL THEM SO. This is called positive AND NEGATIVE feedback.

I was one of SOE's strongest supporters. They had been making steady (if slow) progress on the game since release. It has gone on a rollercoaster ride of bugs and fixes but overall up till the NGE the trend was steadily and constanly that of slow improvement.

Then NGE hit.

I don't know who's idea it was nor do I care... but it is ALWAYS a bad idea to:
1) Make major fundamental changes to a game that people have paid hundreds *yes* HUNDREDS of dollars to play.
2) In those changes literally take away several of the things that those people have been paying SPECIFICALLY for.
3) Implement the changes in such a way that the changes result in a REDUCED quality in the game.

NGE is a good idea, even a great one... problem is it should have been a separate game or an optional server type. It should certainly not have been pushed live in a state that was, at BEST, 50% complete. Furthermore it was pushed live and implemented in such a way that new players now need to pay nearly $100 in their first month of play just to play the game in it's entirety. Without the expansions there is no functional quest-driven storyline content that will advance their characters... thus no NGE beyond CL30 other than the combat system. This to me means that the expansions are not expansions at all but required core components to the NGE. If you DONT buy them you don't have NGE post CL30. Therefore if you want NGE content post CL30 you *must* spend the money on the expansions. Whether you pay it up front or pay it 'down the road' you are still paying $75-$80 for core features of the game.

It's a very scary trend for the industry. Thankfully the players have proven to every other MMO producer out there that this is a BAD business decision.

Will NGE turn out to be a net +? No clue... only time can tell... but so far? If it looks like Sh*t and smells like Sh*t then people need to tell people it's Sh*t just to make sure they don't step in it.

Minimum · December 2005

SOE/LA have made a corporate policy of lieing to their customers. Never have I seen a company with such open contempt for it's paying customer base. Why should we apologize?

They lied openly pre JTL about how the CU was coming and 'being worked on'. This was told to us repeatedly. Along with the "won't divert resources to the expansion" lie. Turns out they weren't working on the CU and they were diverting resources.

Then came NGE, again prior to this they lied consistantly about how they were upgrading classes. This went beyond a lie to open fraud. Selling an expansion they KNEW was going to be worthless when they release NGE, which they conviently held back till after the expansion was being sold.

I've often wondered if Thunderheart and the others have a coatrack in their office, where they symbolically hang their integrity before sitting down to post. He had to know this stuff was happening and what he was posting was absolutely untrue.

Their claim that they can't afford to support two rulesets is put to the lie by the fact that they could run two teams already. One writing NGE while the other continued to "support" the live game. The truth is they really don't care. All the claims that they do are again put to the lie by their actions.

For the record Smedly, it's actions not words that count.

I feel bad for the workers who are just following orders, but in the end, you either have integrity or you don't, there really is no middle ground. SOE/LA are absolutely lacking in integrity. Their every action shows it.

It's my continueing hope that Smedly, Torres, Freeman and the others that pulled this stunt all find themselves as unemployment statistics. They deserve no less.

No apologies here. If they had actually tried honesty upfront, I'm betting the backlash would have been 1/10th of what it is now.

nthnaoun · December 2005

Originally posted by bugzonlsd

Many people may find this post unbelievable, as some of you know I (like many others)have come down on the recent changes in SWG and the company SOE/La pretty hard via posting in forums and such. No, I'm not changing my opinion on it, I'm just better then trashing a game and the makers and know when enough is enough.
When we do this we are not only affecting the company and people who have jobs there that brought us a fairly decent game with the exception of the bugs but the remaining playerbase as well. If everyone else wants to go on trashing and flaming thats up to you guys but I'll be first I guess to come out and apologize for some of the things I've said towards someones work, because thats what it is, someones vision or someones fun. Although I donot share that vision I'm not going to try to tear whats left of it down. So here it is SOE/LA, my apologies to you and to the remaining playerbase trying to make the best out of what you have.
Good luck with SWG in the future & Happy holidays to you all

Now that's being Ethical. I have a new respect for you now. Other people should take note on what you did. I quit playing SWG too, but I remember the golden rule and I didn't bash anyone. I left with my dignity in tact instead of showing my ass to everyone and showing what sort of asshole I could be.

nthnaoun · December 2005

Originally posted by Chastity

SOE has a very simple solution to avoid people trashing them.
Don't do things that are worthy of being trashed for.
If this latest expansion is someone's work, it's crappy work. Crappy work they're charging for. Merits of what the NGE is trying to achieve aside (and there reasonable people can differ--I don't like what I'm seeing but others do; vive la differance), they released something that wasn't ready to be released and they sprung it on the player base in a way that any cretin could have seen was going to produce a customer relations firestorm. The solution to these problems was quite simple.
(1) Don't do crappy work and people won't attack you for doing crappy work. Release work that's been properly debugged and tested.
(2) Don't crap on your playerbase, and they won't crap back on you.
SOE has NEVER been able to grasp these fairly simple concepts of good business practice. They're finally getting their long delayed payback for doing this kind of thing time and time again, and IMHO justice has rarely been better served.
I can appreciate the desire to be all Christmassy and fair here, but let's call a spade a spade. This is SOE's screwup. It IS a screwup. They deserve what they're getting.
--Chastity Nightdancer

Once you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite.

Warsong · December 2005

Originally posted by Elnator
I'm sorry. I'm a firm believer in honest and open criticizm. The problem with today's society is that people "feel bad" for being honest in their opinions of things. This just should not be. If someone makes a HORRIBLE mistake you need to TELL THEM SO. This is called positive AND NEGATIVE feedback.I was one of SOE's strongest supporters. They had been making steady (if slow) progress on the game since release. It has gone on a rollercoaster ride of bugs and fixes but overall up till the NGE the trend was steadily and constanly that of slow improvement.Then NGE hit.I don't know who's idea it was nor do I care... but it is ALWAYS a bad idea to:
1) Make major fundamental changes to a game that people have paid hundreds *yes* HUNDREDS of dollars to play.
2) In those changes literally take away several of the things that those people have been paying SPECIFICALLY for.
3) Implement the changes in such a way that the changes result in a REDUCED quality in the game.
NGE is a good idea, even a great one... problem is it should have been a separate game or an optional server type. It should certainly not have been pushed live in a state that was, at BEST, 50% complete. Furthermore it was pushed live and implemented in such a way that new players now need to pay nearly $100 in their first month of play just to play the game in it's entirety. Without the expansions there is no functional quest-driven storyline content that will advance their characters... thus no NGE beyond CL30 other than the combat system. This to me means that the expansions are not expansions at all but required core components to the NGE. If you DONT buy them you don't have NGE post CL30. Therefore if you want NGE content post CL30 you *must* spend the money on the expansions. Whether you pay it up front or pay it 'down the road' you are still paying $75-$80 for core features of the game.It's a very scary trend for the industry. Thankfully the players have proven to every other MMO producer out there that this is a BAD business decision. Will NGE turn out to be a net +? No clue... only time can tell... but so far? If it looks like Sh*t and smells like Sh*t then people need to tell people it's Sh*t just to make sure they don't step in it.

100% agree with the post above. The NGE should have been another game and worked on longer and they damn sure shouldnt have tried to spring it on their current customers just after an expansion that had promised features for them..tsk fking tsk and what a freakin scam. I supported them for 2.5 years, paid for 20+ accounts each month (mine, wifes, wifes best friend who lives with us, helped others in my guild with expansion purchases etc.) backed them in game out of game on forums all up to this point.

The way they have managed this is very unacceptable and will not be excused, they are the ones who need to be apologizing and IMO LA needs to fire whoever made the decisions for this kind of management and the license need to be pulled from SOE for any SW MMO or something very close to this.

Minimum · December 2005

Originally posted by nthnaoun

Originally posted by Chastity

SOE has a very simple solution to avoid people trashing them.
Don't do things that are worthy of being trashed for.
If this latest expansion is someone's work, it's crappy work. Crappy work they're charging for. Merits of what the NGE is trying to achieve aside (and there reasonable people can differ--I don't like what I'm seeing but others do; vive la differance), they released something that wasn't ready to be released and they sprung it on the player base in a way that any cretin could have seen was going to produce a customer relations firestorm. The solution to these problems was quite simple.
(1) Don't do crappy work and people won't attack you for doing crappy work. Release work that's been properly debugged and tested.
(2) Don't crap on your playerbase, and they won't crap back on you.
SOE has NEVER been able to grasp these fairly simple concepts of good business practice. They're finally getting their long delayed payback for doing this kind of thing time and time again, and IMHO justice has rarely been better served.
I can appreciate the desire to be all Christmassy and fair here, but let's call a spade a spade. This is SOE's screwup. It IS a screwup. They deserve what they're getting.
--Chastity Nightdancer

Once you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite.

I'm an inherently honest individual. As an adult, I've never lied, cheated or stolen from anybody. SOE makes it a corporate policy to do just that.

No hypocrit here.

Scaris · December 2005

Originally posted by Minimum
SOE/LA have made a corporate policy of lieing to their customers. Never have I seen a company with such open contempt for it's paying customer base. Why should we apologize?
They lied openly pre JTL about how the CU was coming and 'being worked on'. This was told to us repeatedly. Along with the "won't divert resources to the expansion" lie. Turns out they weren't working on the CU and they were diverting resources.

"This means the Combat Upgrade's publish pacing is not dictated by the calendar, but by how it evolves in the testing and tuning process." - Thunderheart, 10/28/2004

nthnaoun · December 2005

Originally posted by kjfett

Our complaining isn't putting their job on the line. Our complaining is a consequence of poor programming and vision on SOE's part. SOE's poor programming and lack of vision is why their jobs are on the line. You can be all apologetic and run away if you like. You are certianly welcome to do so, but don't try to put some guilt trip on those of us that are not pulling our tails between our legs and running.
SOE slipped a dirty, bloody bandage in my desert of relaxation fun. I'll be damned if I'm not going to complain and demand their job on a platter for their bad ethics. No, I won't slip their bad works in a napkin so the other customers won't know, pay my bill and slip out the side door.

No one really plans to be un-ethical my friend. Say for yourself for example. You probably consider yourself a mostly eithical person. "Most people think that being mostly ethical is fine as long as their not on the losing end of somoeone's elses lapse in ethics"(Covey, Ethics 101).

Scaris · December 2005

Originally posted by nthnaoun
Once you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite.

Are you serious???

Man, I would just LOVE to be someone selling you something...

Elnator · December 2005

Originally posted by nthnaoun
Originally posted by Chastity
SOE has a very simple solution to avoid people trashing them.
Don't do things that are worthy of being trashed for.
If this latest expansion is someone's work, it's crappy work. Crappy work they're charging for. Merits of what the NGE is trying to achieve aside (and there reasonable people can differ--I don't like what I'm seeing but others do; vive la differance), they released something that wasn't ready to be released and they sprung it on the player base in a way that any cretin could have seen was going to produce a customer relations firestorm. The solution to these problems was quite simple.
(1) Don't do crappy work and people won't attack you for doing crappy work. Release work that's been properly debugged and tested.
(2) Don't crap on your playerbase, and they won't crap back on you.
SOE has NEVER been able to grasp these fairly simple concepts of good business practice. They're finally getting their long delayed payback for doing this kind of thing time and time again, and IMHO justice has rarely been better served.
I can appreciate the desire to be all Christmassy and fair here, but let's call a spade a spade. This is SOE's screwup. It IS a screwup. They deserve what they're getting.
--Chastity NightdancerOnce you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite.

In my ADULT life I have never lied, cheated or stolen from someone.... In my childhood I told my fair share of lies to parents to get out of trouble.... but even then I never stole or cheated from anyone.

Last time I checked all of SOE's paid employees... and LucasArts... were adults. I am perfectly justified in holding them accountable for their actions.

nthnaoun · December 2005

Originally posted by Fadeus

Originally posted by nthnaoun
Once you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite.

Are you serious???

Man, I would just LOVE to be someone selling you something...

Why? Do you think I am gulible because I have ethics? Do you think I don't know how to barter or deal with salesman? Well your wrong on all of it. I consider myself a better man by having good ethics and I've also been a salesman myself before, so I know the ends and outs of how sales people try to talk you into things.

bugzonlsd · December 2005

Ok I wont defend what I wrote or wont try to anyways, it's written and not changing and it's not a weak attempt at "christmas cheer" but I will say these responses were expected and again I stand with my old opinions. Read the post again You guys make points noone can deny it. Your preaching to the CHOIR spelled C-H-O-I-R here folks. lmfao

But let me make this point, you guys made a comparison with work as I said in my post (read above) get canned/fired/demoted/paycut but you go onright? Well /shrug does your ex boss call you everyday and tell you off for mistakes you made yesterday, a year ago, a month ago? No he/she doesnt. They move on and so do we when things happen. Theres no reason for us all to go on and on anymore, where does it get us ? That company in our opinions made mistakes and hundreds apon hundreds of people let them know and cancelled but instead of saying our peace and moving on here we are /shrug, like pitbulls latched on to the postman. At some point it's not opinionating anymore, its just plain out trashing. Noone deserves to be trashed, reprimanded, fired, cancelled maybe, but trashing repeatedly is bs and neither gets you or anyone else anywhere.

I dont expect anyone else to agree or apologize, and I dont mind doing it myself, nor am I defending said company, they have lawyers for that /shrug. I was only sorry for ME feeling I have gone too far and acted in bad ways towards them. It's a game we all enjoyed and now not so much /shrug, I dont hate them for it and I'm done writing trash posts about it.

People are still playing and trying to make the best of it. How many? I don't know... but those people deserve to play the game without a huge lump of negativity from a mass opinion and can't and that I am sorry for, I was there for a bit, when people started leaving, seeing the ghost cities and hearing rants and raves from the few people left on my server, it ruins someone elses gaming. And it sux.

Honestly I didnt read through all the posts lol I didnt have to...I already knew :)Been there, felt it wrote it, done with it.

Again Happy Holidays to all

nthnaoun · December 2005

Originally posted by Elnator

Originally posted by nthnaoun

Originally posted by Chastity
SOE has a very simple solution to avoid people trashing them.
Don't do things that are worthy of being trashed for.
If this latest expansion is someone's work, it's crappy work. Crappy work they're charging for. Merits of what the NGE is trying to achieve aside (and there reasonable people can differ--I don't like what I'm seeing but others do; vive la differance), they released something that wasn't ready to be released and they sprung it on the player base in a way that any cretin could have seen was going to produce a customer relations firestorm. The solution to these problems was quite simple.
(1) Don't do crappy work and people won't attack you for doing crappy work. Release work that's been properly debugged and tested.
(2) Don't crap on your playerbase, and they won't crap back on you.
SOE has NEVER been able to grasp these fairly simple concepts of good business practice. They're finally getting their long delayed payback for doing this kind of thing time and time again, and IMHO justice has rarely been better served.
I can appreciate the desire to be all Christmassy and fair here, but let's call a spade a spade. This is SOE's screwup. It IS a screwup. They deserve what they're getting.
--Chastity Nightdancer
Once you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite.

In my ADULT life I have never lied, cheated or stolen from someone.... In my childhood I told my fair share of lies to parents to get out of trouble.... but even then I never stole or cheated from anyone.

Last time I checked all of SOE's paid employees... and LucasArts... were adults. I am perfectly justified in holding them accountable for their actions.

When you were a child ethics still applied. Your character as a child was tested by being confronted with a choice to tell your parents the truth and get in trouble or tell a lie and stay out of trouble. You my friend are the perfect example of having ethics when it is convenient for you. Don't feel bad though. The majority of the United States have adopted this practice. They are quick to point the finger when they've been wrong, but if they lie to keep their job or make their wife happy, it's okay.

Scaris · December 2005

Originally posted by nthnaoun
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by nthnaounOnce you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite. Are you serious???
Man, I would just LOVE to be someone selling you something...Why? Do you think I am gulible because I have ethics? Do you think I don't know how to barter or deal with salesman? Well your wrong on all of it. I consider myself a better man by having good ethics and I've also been a salesman myself before, so I know the ends and outs of how sales people try to talk you into things.

You clearly stated that unless you live a perfect life you do not have the right to critisize anyone else, even if your paying for something or a certain level of quality. If that isn't what you were saying then you need to retract the statement I addressed because that is what it means.

Elnator · December 2005

Originally posted by bugzonlsd
Ok I wont defend what I wrote or wont try to anyways, it's written and not changing and it's not a weak attempt at "christmas cheer" but I will say these responses were expected and again I stand with my old opinions. Read the post again You guys make points noone can deny it. Your preaching to the quire here folks.
But let me make this point, you guys made a comparison with work as I said in my post (read above) get canned/fired/demoted/paycut but you go onright? Well /shrug does your ex boss call you everyday and tell you off for mistakes you made yesterday, a year ago, a month ago? No he/she doesnt. They move on and so do we when things happen. Theres no reason for us all to go on and on anymore, where does it get us ? That company in our opinions made mistakes and hundreds apon hundreds of people let them know and cancelled but instead of saying our peace and moving on here we are /shrug, like pitbulls latched on to the postman. At some point it's not opinionating anymore, its just plain out trashing. Noone deserves to be trashed, reprimanded, fired, cancelled maybe, but trashing repeatedly is bs and neither gets you or anyone else anywhere.
I dont expect anyone else to agree or apologize, and I dont mind doing it myself, nor am I defending said company, they have lawyers for that /shrug. I was only sorry for ME feeling I have gone too far and acted in bad ways towards them. It's a game we all enjoyed and now not so much /shrug, I dont hate them for it and I'm done writing trash posts about it.
People are still playing and trying to make the best of it. How many? I don't know... but those people deserve to play the game without a huge lump of negativity from a mass opinion and can't and that I am sorry for, I was there for a bit, when people started leaving, seeing the ghost cities and hearing rants and raves from the few people left on my server, it ruins someone elses gaming. And it sux.
Honestly I didnt read through all the posts lol I didnt have to...I already knew :)Been there, felt it wrote it, done with it.
Again Happy Holidays to all

I understand your point bugz but the bottom line is that SOE caused this, not us. We have a right to talk about it and discuss it and warn our fellow players about the issues. I feel bad for the folks who like the game but, for them there IS an option: Stay away from the forums for a month or so and just play the game.

Forums = where those NOT playing are posting

nthnaoun · December 2005

Originally posted by Fadeus

Originally posted by nthnaoun

Originally posted by Fadeus

Originally posted by nthnaounOnce you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite.

Are you serious???
Man, I would just LOVE to be someone selling you something...
Why? Do you think I am gulible because I have ethics? Do you think I don't know how to barter or deal with salesman? Well your wrong on all of it. I consider myself a better man by having good ethics and I've also been a salesman myself before, so I know the ends and outs of how sales people try to talk you into things.

You clearly stated that unless you live a perfect life you do not have the right to critisize anyone else, even if your paying for something or a certain level of quality. If that isn't what you were saying then you need to retract the statement I addressed because that is what it means.

There is only 1 man who was ever perfect. The rest of us should try and be perfect. Sometimes you do things without realising it and you offend people. So ofcourse we all make mistakes. You asked me if you could sell me something. I fail to realise what this has to do with what is right and wrong. So I will not retract my statement. My statement is true and most people will not like it because it puts us all at fault. Including myself. I'm trying to remind you all of the ethics we have all learned at some point in time and hope that you readopt these ethics and make the U.S. a better place. But I know I will get flamed instead and ignored. That's the way of the U.S. now and no one wants to be on the losing side. Ethical people are on the losing side, although in the long run they are the winners.

If you want me to clarify more I will, but I will not argue with anyone over this anymore.

Scaris · December 2005

Originally posted by nthnaoun
Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by nthnaounOriginally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by nthnaounOnce you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite. Are you serious???Man, I would just LOVE to be someone selling you something...
Why? Do you think I am gulible because I have ethics? Do you think I don't know how to barter or deal with salesman? Well your wrong on all of it. I consider myself a better man by having good ethics and I've also been a salesman myself before, so I know the ends and outs of how sales people try to talk you into things. You clearly stated that unless you live a perfect life you do not have the right to critisize anyone else, even if your paying for something or a certain level of quality. If that isn't what you were saying then you need to retract the statement I addressed because that is what it means.
There is only 1 man who was ever perfect. The rest of us should try and be perfect. Sometimes you do things without realising it and you offend people. So ofcourse we all make mistakes. You asked me if you could sell me something. I fail to realise what this has to do with what is right and wrong. So I will not retract my statement. My statement is true and most people will not like it because it puts us all at fault. Including myself. I'm trying to remind you all of the ethics we have all learned at some point in time and hope that you readopt these ethics and make the U.S. a better place. But I know I will get flamed instead and ignored. That's the way of the U.S. now and no one wants to be on the losing side. Ethical people are on the losing side, although in the long run they are the winners.
If you want me to clarify more I will, but I will not argue with anyone over this anymore.

I really think you have lost focus of this at this point. And BTW, its not your place to decide my ethics. You want to inspire people to be better, then be a role model and not an activist. However this is a gaming forum and I have every right to critique what I have paid my hard earned dollars for.

Elnator · December 2005

Originally posted by nthnaoun
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by nthnaounOriginally posted by Chastity SOE has a very simple solution to avoid people trashing them.Don't do things that are worthy of being trashed for. If this latest expansion is someone's work, it's crappy work. Crappy work they're charging for. Merits of what the NGE is trying to achieve aside (and there reasonable people can differ--I don't like what I'm seeing but others do; vive la differance), they released something that wasn't ready to be released and they sprung it on the player base in a way that any cretin could have seen was going to produce a customer relations firestorm. The solution to these problems was quite simple.(1) Don't do crappy work and people won't attack you for doing crappy work. Release work that's been properly debugged and tested.(2) Don't crap on your playerbase, and they won't crap back on you.SOE has NEVER been able to grasp these fairly simple concepts of good business practice. They're finally getting their long delayed payback for doing this kind of thing time and time again, and IMHO justice has rarely been better served.I can appreciate the desire to be all Christmassy and fair here, but let's call a spade a spade. This is SOE's screwup. It IS a screwup. They deserve what they're getting.--Chastity Nightdancer
Once you can say you've never lied, cheated, or stolen from someone you can then rightly judge SOE, until then, you just sound like a hypocrite. In my ADULT life I have never lied, cheated or stolen from someone.... In my childhood I told my fair share of lies to parents to get out of trouble.... but even then I never stole or cheated from anyone.
Last time I checked all of SOE's paid employees... and LucasArts... were adults. I am perfectly justified in holding them accountable for their actions.When you were a child ethics still applied. Your character as a child was tested by being confronted with a choice to tell your parents the truth and get in trouble or tell a lie and stay out of trouble. You my friend are the perfect example of having ethics when it is convenient for you. Don't feel bad though. The majority of the United States have adopted this practice. They are quick to point the finger when they've been wrong, but if they lie to keep their job or make their wife happy, it's okay.

Sorry no that's not the case at all. All children learn as they grow up NOT to lie. I have not lied since before I graduated high school... in fact I don't recall lying even within my junior and senior year. Matter of fact my HONESTY has gotten me into more trouble than lying would have, in many cases. But I don't lie specifically because I was taught, as a child, that it was wrong.

Every kid lies at some point. It is THEN that they are taught it was wrong. In my adult life (and I start "adult" at about 16 or so) I have not told a lie. I have NEVER cheated and I have NEVER stolen. You can sit there on your holy podium and act like you know everything you want but all you're doing is coming across as pompous. I don't expect children to be perfect. Heck I don't even expect ADULTS to be perfect. Humans make mistakes. HOWEVER, I do expect corporate entities run by dozens, if not hundreds, of people to make sure that mistakes by 1 are not propogated to their customers. I hold a BUSINESS to a much higher ethical standard than any INDIVIDUAL.

And I do not 'have ethics when it's convenient'. As I said... we LEARN as children to practice as ADULTS. Every kid learns it's wrong to lie. One way or another. What they CHOOSE to do as an ADULT with that information is what matters. As an ADULT if you are STILL lying to people then you have CHOSEN to do so. As a Child you are still learning. As an adult you're supposed to have learned those CHILDHOOD lessons.

So you're telling me you think telling your parents your report card got lost is as bad as jilting thousands of customers out of their money? It's hardly in the same league. Without even bringing the "adult / child" aspect into it.

You talk a lot of hot air. Nobody is perfect. But we should ALL have standards. Yours are apparently such that you would hold nobody accountable for their actions just because nobody is perfect? That makes no sense whatsoever. If the world were run that way it would be total anarchy and chaos. *I* certainly wouldn't want to live in it.

Unrulyevil · December 2005

Are you out of your mind?

I waisted my MY money! and the game that could have been HUGE and BEST turned in to ruin.

bugzonlsd · December 2005

Originally posted by Unrulyevil

Are you out of your mind?
I waisted my MY money! and the game that could have been HUGE and BEST turned in to ruin.

Sorry to hear.

Howdy, Stranger!

Apology to SWG remaining players and SOE/la

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Apology to SWG remaining players and SOE/la

Comments