How much $ have you spent in cash shops and over what time period? I'm only asking because I want to learn how much people are spending on these "free" games.
The whole P2P notion makes me think of gullible shoppers at stores who get conned/swindled into purchasing items with high interest rate loans when they could have purchased either the same product or a very similar product elsewhere for a fraction of the cost, or even free!
Who really wants to play a free game? Me! Cause being forced to pay monthly fees just to have access to the game I've already bought is nuts!
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
GW1 (B2P) for one. Last time I checked, FLYFF (F2P) and ROSE Online (F2P) are also still kicking
Add to that Puzzle Pirates, Free Realms, Furcadia , Shattered Galaxy, Runescape, Travian, Neocron...
My manner was absolutely not insulting i was merely stating a pretty accurate analogy of what a f2p game is. But have fun playing Puzzle Pirates lol.
I agree, I don't think your manner was insulting, but you just mocked people who enjoy different types of games that you obviously do not enjoy.
It is one thing to disagree, it is another to mock other poeple for liking different things.
You made an incorrect statement and got called out on it... man up and move on; no need to insult anyone.
How much $ have you spent in cash shops and over what time period? I'm only asking because I want to learn how much people are spending on these "free" games.
Exactly zero.
So tell me, are these games free for me?
Well... you do pay for internet access. If you're computer is in an apartment or a house and you're paying rent or mortgage, then you are also having to pay for a roof over your head and over the computer, so I guess that means no, the game is not free.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar I really enjoyed building my castle
Building castles sounds awesome and I would be delighted to see screenshots of yours. I will just admire the work you've done; I won't be critical.
I must say tho it is funny to see everyone answering the question which I specifically asked Corehaven. I guess they mistook my explanation to him as an open question to everyone.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Why again are you playing your free game 20h week? Free clearly lacks quality that a 15 mmo veteran demands.
Quality and quantity are two different things. Truth of the matter is games today are filled with better quality, problem is they lack quantity. Old mmos lacked quality but made up for it in quantity of time sinks. They lacked production value, lacked in game-play, lacked in execution, they lacked in tech. These things are what makes up the quality of life in a gaming experience. They sacrificed for abundance, they added length to a subscription by penalizing progression. The mainstay was in the players themselves, they provided the long-term end-game, they manufactured it.
Anyway, the problem today isn't one of quality, it's quantity, which is sacrificed to offer quality.
There is a total lack of quality in MMORPG's today... mostof the terrain isn't real, all the graphics are geared toward minger rigs, textures & animations and content are all cheap and geared toward non-discerning gamers. There isn't a AAA MMORPG released in the last 5 years.
Free games are even cheaper and have less quality than their Pay counterparts. They server structure is based on cheap instancing and suffer from a fractured community...
I can go on and on about how FREE is mediocre quality. That is why oldschool gamers are no longer playing any of these MMORPGs and waiting for a premium model to roll out. And why the hard cash has left the marketplace.
There are more McDonald's, than steak houses...
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Why again are you playing your free game 20h week? Free clearly lacks quality that a 15 mmo veteran demands.
Quality and quantity are two different things. Truth of the matter is games today are filled with better quality, problem is they lack quantity. Old mmos lacked quality but made up for it in quantity of time sinks. They lacked production value, lacked in game-play, lacked in execution, they lacked in tech. These things are what makes up the quality of life in a gaming experience. They sacrificed for abundance, they added length to a subscription by penalizing progression. The mainstay was in the players themselves, they provided the long-term end-game, they manufactured it.
Anyway, the problem today isn't one of quality, it's quantity, which is sacrificed to offer quality.
There is a total lack of quality in MMORPG's today... mostof the terrain isn't real, all the graphics are geared toward minger rigs, textures & animations and content are all cheap and geared toward non-discerning gamers. There isn't a AAA MMORPG released in the last 5 years.
Free games are even cheaper and have less quality than their Pay counterparts. They server structure is based on cheap instancing and suffer from a fractured community...
I can go on and on about how FREE is mediocre quality. That is why oldschool gamers are no longer playing any of these MMORPGs and waiting for a premium model to roll out. And why the hard cash has left the marketplace.
There are more McDonald's, than steak houses...
I have to disagree...
I think there is plenty of quality out there; could it be better? Absolutely! (no matter how good games get, they can always be better)
As for a AAA mmorpg released in the last 5 years, Rift and GW2 come to mind (especially GW2)
With regards to F2P/B2P, I believe you are completely wrong. Yes, there are a lot of cheap korean/chinese F2P mmos out there, and I also don't think much of them, but GW2 has really set a new bar in the mmo industry. I would argue that GW2 is probably one of the best mmorpgs ever developed; it has plenty of room for growth and improvement, no doubt about that, but overall, one of the best.
I always get a kick out of people who make absolute all-encompassing claims regarding "oldschool" players, as if they are the spokesperson for an entire generation of gamers. Unless you represent some form of a guild or union of players (and can substantiate that claim), please speak for yourself and not the rest of us.
Play and let play!
P.S. please keep in mind english is not my first language; I apologize for any grammatical mistakes
Admitedly, I did not peruse this entire thread; 19 pages of posts is a bit much. But I do want to add my input to the post above mine.
I think I have to agree with the comment about old school gamers'; generalization is never wise. While I can't be sure if I fall into the old school gamer category (I started my gaming on an Atari and the first computer I played around on was an Apple) I am an older gamer. In fact, when I was a teenager, D&D was considered "gaming".
I for one tend to prefer the F2P model, as long as the game isn't heavilly a pay to win. Since I have no idea month to month if I will be able to play a game I start, the idea of subscribing to it bothers me. paying for something I am not using for example; not really into that. When I pay a sub, I feel obligated to play that game, or I feel I am wasting the money I spent. With an F2P, I can come and go as I please, without worrying that I am running out of time to play.
Some of the F2P's out there are pretty well built in my opinion. But then again, my focus tends to be on the crafting systems of games primarilly, then pvp. Graphics are important, but I don't condone a game because they aren't realistic (I feel if I need to see realistic scenery, the patio door is right there, and its all green and leafy out there). Storyline, quest system, crafting, pvp; those are important....not so much how realistic the grass or trees look. I mean, I'm not stopping to smell the roses at the side of the road, i am headed in to kill the mobs on the other side of it. But as I said, thats just in my opinion. I realize though, that everyone has differences in what they like in a game. Some focus mainly on pvp aspects of a game, others in building and decorating their houses; sadly, some would much rather "get married" in the game and thats all they really care about (when the hell did getting married in a game become a priority though ) Like I said, everyone has their preferences. To each his (or her) own, I like to say.
So who likes F2P games? Well....I suppose some could be people like myself.
"Just because you can, that does not mean you should"
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Naw. With newer games that can't be proven because they are newer.
However there have been f2p games around for years, since before UO.
And EQ, EQ2, lotro are all f2p now. Years for Lotro, a couple for eq2.
Your point is irrelevant.
Free games have been around before video games (tic-tac-toe).
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
I don't play games based on whether they are f2p or p2p, i play games because i enjoy playing them. If a free to play gaming is fun and enjoyable then i will play it. I am not so brainwashed that i will only play a certain game based on the payment model.
Why again are you playing your free game 20h week? Free clearly lacks quality that a 15 mmo veteran demands.
Quality and quantity are two different things. Truth of the matter is games today are filled with better quality, problem is they lack quantity. Old mmos lacked quality but made up for it in quantity of time sinks. They lacked production value, lacked in game-play, lacked in execution, they lacked in tech. These things are what makes up the quality of life in a gaming experience. They sacrificed for abundance, they added length to a subscription by penalizing progression. The mainstay was in the players themselves, they provided the long-term end-game, they manufactured it.
Anyway, the problem today isn't one of quality, it's quantity, which is sacrificed to offer quality.
There is a total lack of quality in MMORPG's today... mostof the terrain isn't real, all the graphics are geared toward minger rigs, textures & animations and content are all cheap and geared toward non-discerning gamers. There isn't a AAA MMORPG released in the last 5 years.
Free games are even cheaper and have less quality than their Pay counterparts. They server structure is based on cheap instancing and suffer from a fractured community...
I can go on and on about how FREE is mediocre quality. That is why oldschool gamers are no longer playing any of these MMORPGs and waiting for a premium model to roll out. And why the hard cash has left the marketplace.
There are more McDonald's, than steak houses...
I have to disagree...
I think there is plenty of quality out there; could it be better? Absolutely! (no matter how good games get, they can always be better)
As for a AAA mmorpg released in the last 5 years, Rift and GW2 come to mind (especially GW2)
With regards to F2P/B2P, I believe you are completely wrong. Yes, there are a lot of cheap korean/chinese F2P mmos out there, and I also don't think much of them, but GW2 has really set a new bar in the mmo industry. I would argue that GW2 is probably one of the best mmorpgs ever developed; it has plenty of room for growth and improvement, no doubt about that, but overall, one of the best.
I always get a kick out of people who make absolute all-encompassing claims regarding "oldschool" players, as if they are the spokesperson for an entire generation of gamers. Unless you represent some form of a guild or union of players (and can substantiate that claim), please speak for yourself and not the rest of us.
Play and let play!
P.S. please keep in mind english is not my first language; I apologize for any grammatical mistakes
You disagree.. then fail to support your rebuttal?
You are just saying your cheap and want to support your cheap decisions. Because RIFT was not a FREE TO PLAY game ... it was a failed SUBSCRIPTION based game, that went to a FREE TO PLAY business model because it was a flop of a MMORPG... so it had to move to a MMO free model and shut down servers so they Dev's can keep their jobs. Not to make the game better.
Secondly, GW2 is not even a MMORPG, nor was it trying to be one... it is not FREE to PLAY, because I bought a $100 collector's edition..
So... name a F2P game, that has a working business model please... that's been released in the last 5 years.
Understand that FREE TO PLAY is a gimmick perpetrated on all the younger WoW'tards that infested the MMORPG marketplace in the last 8 years.
These WoW-tards (13 ~25 year old) are considered fat blubbery whales to feast off of.. (from a developers pov), because they don't know what they want & they have no knowledge of history, or of quality... so the become victimized by all these developers.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Originally posted by nerovipus32 I don't play games based on whether they are f2p or p2p, i play games because i enjoy playing them. If a free to play gaming is fun and enjoyable then i will play it. I am not so brainwashed that i will only play a certain game based on the payment model.
Yep... but as an adult, have you actually found a F2P game worthy of your time...?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yep... but as an adult, have you actually found a F2P game worthy of your time...?
Anarchy Online - my first and favourite MMO went F2P ages ago.
EQ2 - the game i've been playing for 9 years now - is F2P now.
LoTRO - one of the better themepark-generation games is F2P now.
I've spent hundreds of dollars on those games and i DID and DO find them "worthy of my time". And they're F2P.
Do i like the F2P model? Absolutely not. That's why i still maintain a gold (sub-equivalent) membership in EQ2.
But F2P doesn't mean "costs no money", it just means that the money is charged a different way.
Contrary to the OP's understanding, the main reason that companies have switched away from subs to F2P is NOT so they could get $2 from children instead of $200 a year from adults. It's precisely so that they could take $500 from adults instead of the $200 they were previously getting.
I'm not defending the F2P model at all, as a customer i much more prefer the old sub model. But from a business standpoint, I think people in this thread aren't quite misunderstanding why the major shift has happened.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Naw. With newer games that can't be proven because they are newer.
However there have been f2p games around for years, since before UO.
And EQ, EQ2, lotro are all f2p now. Years for Lotro, a couple for eq2.
Your point is irrelevant.
Free games have been around before video games (tic-tac-toe).
So since f2p VIDEO games have been around for years, some longer than p2p games and yes I was talking about MMORPG's.
And you have pointed out that free games have been around for a very long time.
You must therefore agree that the "statement all games with longevity are p2p" is false since it directly contradicts yours and my statements.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I like Pirates of the Burning Sea, Star Trek Online, GW2 (or I used to), World of Tanks, and World of Planes.
Have a good deal of fun in all of them. My best friend from way back in college likes some of them too, and we play together some when we both have time. I've also paid for games or paid monthlies. However I didn't see a great divide in entertainment value between the two ( F2P and monthly ).
I do like there are games I can download that day, and dive into without paying a red cent. Once upon a time, that wasn't even a daydream. It just wasn't a thing. So it's pretty cool as far as I'm concerned. No harm in it.
How much $ have you spent in cash shops and over what time period? I'm only asking because I want to learn how much people are spending on these "free" games.
On my free account in EQ, 30 dollars over the last year (have not played it a year continuosly, just off/on, say 4 months). I also have a gold account that I box with.
In EQ2, a couple hundred over a few months. I really enjoyed building my castle, and thats what it costs, so I spent a lot. That item limit still cheeses me. Found the game itself a bit dull for my taste, but enjoyed the castle.
In CoH when it went free - nothing - off/on a couple years (however long it was f2p)
DCUO - nothing, 2 months.
Those are the main ones, all the others ones - only a week or so and nothing.
So in essence... you've spent nothing on 4 games.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Yep... but as an adult, have you actually found a F2P game worthy of your time...?
Anarchy Online - my first and favourite MMO went F2P ages ago.
EQ2 - the game i've been playing for 9 years now - is F2P now.
LoTRO - one of the better themepark-generation games is F2P now.
I've spent hundreds of dollars on those games and i DID and DO find them "worthy of my time". And they're F2P.
Do i like the F2P model? Absolutely not. That's why i still maintain a gold (sub-equivalent) membership in EQ2.
But F2P doesn't mean "costs no money", it just means that the money is charged a different way.
Contrary to the OP's understanding, the main reason that companies have switched away from subs to F2P is NOT so they could get $2 from children instead of $200 a year from adults. It's precisely so that they could take $500 from adults instead of the $200 they were previously getting.
I'm not defending the F2P model at all, as a customer i much more prefer the old sub model. But from a business standpoint, I think people in this thread aren't quite misunderstanding why the major shift has happened.
Again, those games you are claiming that are free to play... are not. You had to buy those games. Just because they are free now, doesn't mean they are a legitimate free game.
Built from the ground up in the last 5 years as F2P.. how much money are u spending in those games.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Naw. With newer games that can't be proven because they are newer.
However there have been f2p games around for years, since before UO.
And EQ, EQ2, lotro are all f2p now. Years for Lotro, a couple for eq2.
Your point is irrelevant.
Free games have been around before video games (tic-tac-toe).
So since f2p VIDEO games have been around for years, some longer than p2p games and yes I was talking about MMORPG's.
And you have pointed out that free games have been around for a very long time.
You must therefore agree that the "statement all games with longevity are p2p" is false since it directly contradicts yours and my statements.
No, I was stating that your point is irrelevant.
If Free2Play were around that long, and had quality... then EQ, UO and Ashron's call never would've made it, nor started out with $15 subs.
And that FREE has always been available choice. Can't attend a Pro/college football game, then goto the high school one for less, or junior varsity for FREE.
Free is relegated to those who cannot afford to pay.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
You're 43 and still can't spell the word straight? Seriously, at least put in a little effort. You're also wrong about Free to Play being supported by children with no income. Free to Play games are successful because they appeal to a wider audience. They attract many players by offering the game for free and hope to snag the few people with tons of expendable cash. I've known many Free to Play gamers that spend upwards of $200-$500/week on a regular basis. That small percentage of big spenders is what primarily supports a F2P game and is followed by casual spenders that drop $10-$20 every now and then.
Anyway, people play Free to Play games because some of them are excellent. A payment model isn't what makes games entertaining. Try a few quality F2P games before you go on some crusade against them with no idea what you're talking about.
You're 43 and still can't spell the word straight? Seriously, at least put in a little effort. You're also wrong about Free to Play being supported by children with no income. Free to Play games are successful because they appeal to a wider audience. They attract many players by offering the game for free and hope to snag the few people with tons of expendable cash. I've known many Free to Play gamers that spend upwards of $200-$500/week on a regular basis. That small percentage of big spenders is what primarily supports a F2P game and is followed by casual spenders that drop $10-$20 every now and then.
Anyway, people play Free to Play games because some of them are excellent. A payment model isn't what makes games entertaining. Try a few quality F2P games before you go on some crusade against them with no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry, but a payment model is a business model.
There are not one sustainable FREE TO PLAY MMORPG out there. They have all flopped and gone to FREE TO PLAY to survive. They were not build using free money, they earned that off box sales, etc.. then went to FREE TO PLAY.
So, where are all these successful F2P game...? HOw does one BUILD a free game and offer it to you for free.. then make money while still providing the SAME quality as a subscription based game. It has never been done!
Runes of Magic is not better than LOTR, or EQ or WoW, or any other... it's just FREE.
Lastly, most games are FREE now, because they were not built with the quality, to demand a monthly subscription... and PEOPLE told these developers this. That is why everything is FREE now. Because it is not good enough for adult's to purchase, so they must give them away and hope emotional unstable people make rash purchases. Just like this guy^, who's friends spend $1k on free games... so they should have no problem using the same cash for a 4 year sub to a premium game.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
I love buy to play (gw2,tsw)are 2very solid game!on the sub side ff14 really did a good job.I have ff14 since October 2010 and I hated it before it was a nightmare .now it run smoother then wow at better graphic setting with map full of player around you .it really is astonishing.true s-e didn't reopen sale (I checked Friday)they know full well they all need more server.but at least most that had naught it are in !oh all server have queue but mine go fairly quick in.ya I suspect a lot of people are waiting to grab their copy with good reason!in all my years as game last time I saw so many people in one place was vanilla wow!I mean every freaking zone are buzzing with people !it is awesome!
You're 43 and still can't spell the word straight? Seriously, at least put in a little effort. You're also wrong about Free to Play being supported by children with no income. Free to Play games are successful because they appeal to a wider audience. They attract many players by offering the game for free and hope to snag the few people with tons of expendable cash. I've known many Free to Play gamers that spend upwards of $200-$500/week on a regular basis. That small percentage of big spenders is what primarily supports a F2P game and is followed by casual spenders that drop $10-$20 every now and then.
Anyway, people play Free to Play games because some of them are excellent. A payment model isn't what makes games entertaining. Try a few quality F2P games before you go on some crusade against them with no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry, but a payment model is a business model.
There are not one sustainable FREE TO PLAY MMORPG out there. They have all flopped and gone to FREE TO PLAY to survive. They were not build using free money, they earned that off box sales, etc.. then went to FREE TO PLAY.
So, where are all these successful F2P game...? HOw does one BUILD a free game and offer it to you for free.. then make money while still providing the SAME quality as a subscription based game. It has never been done!
Runes of Magic is not better than LOTR, or EQ or WoW, or any other... it's just FREE.
Lastly, most games are FREE now, because they were not built with the quality, to demand a monthly subscription... and PEOPLE told these developers this. That is why everything is FREE now. Because it is not good enough for adult's to purchase, so they must give them away and hope emotional unstable people make rash purchases. Just like this guy^, who's friends spend $1k on free games... so they should have no problem using the same cash for a 4 year sub to a premium game.
Naw. There have been f2p MMO's since before UO that are still running. They can survive very very well.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
Exactly zero.
So tell me, are these games free for me?
The whole P2P notion makes me think of gullible shoppers at stores who get conned/swindled into purchasing items with high interest rate loans when they could have purchased either the same product or a very similar product elsewhere for a fraction of the cost, or even free!
Who really wants to play a free game? Me! Cause being forced to pay monthly fees just to have access to the game I've already bought is nuts!
I agree, I don't think your manner was insulting, but you just mocked people who enjoy different types of games that you obviously do not enjoy.
It is one thing to disagree, it is another to mock other poeple for liking different things.
You made an incorrect statement and got called out on it... man up and move on; no need to insult anyone.
Well... you do pay for internet access. If you're computer is in an apartment or a house and you're paying rent or mortgage, then you are also having to pay for a roof over your head and over the computer, so I guess that means no, the game is not free.
*Turns off sarcasm
Building castles sounds awesome and I would be delighted to see screenshots of yours. I will just admire the work you've done; I won't be critical.
I must say tho it is funny to see everyone answering the question which I specifically asked Corehaven. I guess they mistook my explanation to him as an open question to everyone.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
VERY cool. Thanks for sharing.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
There is a total lack of quality in MMORPG's today... mostof the terrain isn't real, all the graphics are geared toward minger rigs, textures & animations and content are all cheap and geared toward non-discerning gamers. There isn't a AAA MMORPG released in the last 5 years.
Free games are even cheaper and have less quality than their Pay counterparts. They server structure is based on cheap instancing and suffer from a fractured community...
I can go on and on about how FREE is mediocre quality. That is why oldschool gamers are no longer playing any of these MMORPGs and waiting for a premium model to roll out. And why the hard cash has left the marketplace.
There are more McDonald's, than steak houses...
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
I have to disagree...
I think there is plenty of quality out there; could it be better? Absolutely! (no matter how good games get, they can always be better)
As for a AAA mmorpg released in the last 5 years, Rift and GW2 come to mind (especially GW2)
With regards to F2P/B2P, I believe you are completely wrong. Yes, there are a lot of cheap korean/chinese F2P mmos out there, and I also don't think much of them, but GW2 has really set a new bar in the mmo industry. I would argue that GW2 is probably one of the best mmorpgs ever developed; it has plenty of room for growth and improvement, no doubt about that, but overall, one of the best.
I always get a kick out of people who make absolute all-encompassing claims regarding "oldschool" players, as if they are the spokesperson for an entire generation of gamers. Unless you represent some form of a guild or union of players (and can substantiate that claim), please speak for yourself and not the rest of us.
Play and let play!
P.S. please keep in mind english is not my first language; I apologize for any grammatical mistakes
Admitedly, I did not peruse this entire thread; 19 pages of posts is a bit much. But I do want to add my input to the post above mine.
I think I have to agree with the comment about old school gamers'; generalization is never wise. While I can't be sure if I fall into the old school gamer category (I started my gaming on an Atari and the first computer I played around on was an Apple) I am an older gamer. In fact, when I was a teenager, D&D was considered "gaming".
I for one tend to prefer the F2P model, as long as the game isn't heavilly a pay to win. Since I have no idea month to month if I will be able to play a game I start, the idea of subscribing to it bothers me. paying for something I am not using for example; not really into that. When I pay a sub, I feel obligated to play that game, or I feel I am wasting the money I spent. With an F2P, I can come and go as I please, without worrying that I am running out of time to play.
Some of the F2P's out there are pretty well built in my opinion. But then again, my focus tends to be on the crafting systems of games primarilly, then pvp. Graphics are important, but I don't condone a game because they aren't realistic (I feel if I need to see realistic scenery, the patio door is right there, and its all green and leafy out there). Storyline, quest system, crafting, pvp; those are important....not so much how realistic the grass or trees look. I mean, I'm not stopping to smell the roses at the side of the road, i am headed in to kill the mobs on the other side of it. But as I said, thats just in my opinion. I realize though, that everyone has differences in what they like in a game. Some focus mainly on pvp aspects of a game, others in building and decorating their houses; sadly, some would much rather "get married" in the game and thats all they really care about (when the hell did getting married in a game become a priority though
) Like I said, everyone has their preferences. To each his (or her) own, I like to say.
So who likes F2P games? Well....I suppose some could be people like myself.
"Just because you can, that does not mean you should"
Your point is irrelevant.
Free games have been around before video games (tic-tac-toe).
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
You disagree.. then fail to support your rebuttal?
You are just saying your cheap and want to support your cheap decisions. Because RIFT was not a FREE TO PLAY game ... it was a failed SUBSCRIPTION based game, that went to a FREE TO PLAY business model because it was a flop of a MMORPG... so it had to move to a MMO free model and shut down servers so they Dev's can keep their jobs. Not to make the game better.
Secondly, GW2 is not even a MMORPG, nor was it trying to be one... it is not FREE to PLAY, because I bought a $100 collector's edition..
So... name a F2P game, that has a working business model please... that's been released in the last 5 years.
Understand that FREE TO PLAY is a gimmick perpetrated on all the younger WoW'tards that infested the MMORPG marketplace in the last 8 years.
These WoW-tards (13 ~25 year old) are considered fat blubbery whales to feast off of.. (from a developers pov), because they don't know what they want & they have no knowledge of history, or of quality... so the become victimized by all these developers.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Yep... but as an adult, have you actually found a F2P game worthy of your time...?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Anarchy Online - my first and favourite MMO went F2P ages ago.
EQ2 - the game i've been playing for 9 years now - is F2P now.
LoTRO - one of the better themepark-generation games is F2P now.
I've spent hundreds of dollars on those games and i DID and DO find them "worthy of my time". And they're F2P.
Do i like the F2P model? Absolutely not. That's why i still maintain a gold (sub-equivalent) membership in EQ2.
But F2P doesn't mean "costs no money", it just means that the money is charged a different way.
Contrary to the OP's understanding, the main reason that companies have switched away from subs to F2P is NOT so they could get $2 from children instead of $200 a year from adults. It's precisely so that they could take $500 from adults instead of the $200 they were previously getting.
I'm not defending the F2P model at all, as a customer i much more prefer the old sub model. But from a business standpoint, I think people in this thread aren't quite misunderstanding why the major shift has happened.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
So since f2p VIDEO games have been around for years, some longer than p2p games and yes I was talking about MMORPG's.
And you have pointed out that free games have been around for a very long time.
You must therefore agree that the "statement all games with longevity are p2p" is false since it directly contradicts yours and my statements.
So in essence... you've spent nothing on 4 games.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Again, those games you are claiming that are free to play... are not. You had to buy those games. Just because they are free now, doesn't mean they are a legitimate free game.
Built from the ground up in the last 5 years as F2P.. how much money are u spending in those games.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
No, I was stating that your point is irrelevant.
If Free2Play were around that long, and had quality... then EQ, UO and Ashron's call never would've made it, nor started out with $15 subs.
And that FREE has always been available choice. Can't attend a Pro/college football game, then goto the high school one for less, or junior varsity for FREE.
Free is relegated to those who cannot afford to pay.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
....Runes of Magic. Its always been f2p.....and I do believe it falls into your 5 year limit.
Sure, its not for everyone, but it is a pretty good game for being an f2p.
"Just because you can, that does not mean you should"
You're 43 and still can't spell the word straight? Seriously, at least put in a little effort. You're also wrong about Free to Play being supported by children with no income. Free to Play games are successful because they appeal to a wider audience. They attract many players by offering the game for free and hope to snag the few people with tons of expendable cash. I've known many Free to Play gamers that spend upwards of $200-$500/week on a regular basis. That small percentage of big spenders is what primarily supports a F2P game and is followed by casual spenders that drop $10-$20 every now and then.
Anyway, people play Free to Play games because some of them are excellent. A payment model isn't what makes games entertaining. Try a few quality F2P games before you go on some crusade against them with no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry, but a payment model is a business model.
There are not one sustainable FREE TO PLAY MMORPG out there. They have all flopped and gone to FREE TO PLAY to survive. They were not build using free money, they earned that off box sales, etc.. then went to FREE TO PLAY.
So, where are all these successful F2P game...? HOw does one BUILD a free game and offer it to you for free.. then make money while still providing the SAME quality as a subscription based game. It has never been done!
Runes of Magic is not better than LOTR, or EQ or WoW, or any other... it's just FREE.
Lastly, most games are FREE now, because they were not built with the quality, to demand a monthly subscription... and PEOPLE told these developers this. That is why everything is FREE now. Because it is not good enough for adult's to purchase, so they must give them away and hope emotional unstable people make rash purchases. Just like this guy^, who's friends spend $1k on free games... so they should have no problem using the same cash for a 4 year sub to a premium game.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Naw. There have been f2p MMO's since before UO that are still running. They can survive very very well.