EQN looks like its being made for the soccer mom's and the house husbands, pretty much the G Rated crowd. Nothing wrong with it though, they need an MMO too and why not the market is untapped except for the Wii. It looks like Sony is trying to get families playing MMO's and they think this art style is best for the direction they are going.
I personally would like a more gritty dark game since I have no children or plan on having children anytime soon. I work hard, play hard, party hard and would like to game hard but there are no games for me right now. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer but I don't mind playing for 4 hours in a game that I enjoy after work instead of watching TV. What does this have to do with art style? Taste, I guess. I don't want to feel like I'm in a Disney cartoon when I game. I don't rent G rated movies and watch them so why would I play a game that looks like it's based in one.
ESO is looking pretty good art style wise, not sure its going to be for me with the game play though. Kind of sick of the theme park games as of late and would like to see a large AAA sandbox game with some good art style and a huge world. I will probably check it out since there is nothing else interesting coming my way in the near future, but doubt I will play longer than a few months at best.
Art style has an impact on everything in life, human's are visual animals, we use vision for pretty much everything we do everyday. These comments I keep reading about art style doesn't matter are bullshit, art style is what attracts you, art style is what immerses you, art style is expressive, art style is what keeps you exploring to see more of this amazing world you are in and art has been around since man first picked up something and drew a picture to communicate with others about what was going on in his mind.
Yeah i think SOE should just scrap the entire game and remake it with new art style because people on (be prepared to be shocked).. mmorpg.com dislike it.
Because we know for a fact that mmorpg.com represents millions of gamers world wide and always has a huge impact on success of MMOS.
Originally posted by flizzer Not a huge fan of the EQ Next artstyle. Considering the voxel based gameworld of EQ Next and the ability to manipulate the world, I think the direction was necessary, or at least, that is what people more knowledgeable about game creation tell me. It doesnt seem possible at this point in time to add voxel design with everything EQ Next wants to do in a very realistic world setting. If this is the case, and like i said, I am just understanding this from others who "claim" to have knowledge of game design, then I'll bit the bullet and deal with the cartoons. Maybe some day we can get a game that looks like ESO with voxel technology similar to EQ Next. Well, until that day.....
This is what Rosie Rappaport said at the worlds panel at SOE live. (link) She stats at 6:30.
At an early stage in development they thought that EQN was going to look somewhat like Minecraft with big visible blocks, but that had changed a long time ago. I'm not sure at what point they knew they where using the VoxelFarm engine (link), but after that it was clear that EQN wouldn't have any visible blocks. The engine has been around for several years now. The world in EQN is very smooth. I couldn't tell if this are voxel-grafics or not by just looking at it.
I don't see how the VoxelFarm engine is forcing them to use any specific art style. Why can't we have EQN with grittier looking characters right now.
Don't you think it's kinda pointless to crusade against the art style OP? It's quite clear that SOE has given it ample thought before choosing this stylized version. And it's also quite clear that the majority of the potential players that frequent these fora either like it or don't mind at all.
Threads like these crack me up. If you do not like a game don't play it. if you want to design a game start a business and go do it.
Its like walking into wendy's and tell them you don't like there meals so can they make you something from burger king.
People always want more and our culture carters to this.
Personally I like the look but hated the way wow looked when it was realeased for the same reasons that are being pointed out here. I ended up playing eq2 ( which launched at about the same time) and i think stuck with eq2 for 4-5 months then a friend let me play wow and I never looked back. That thought me one thing...... play the game before you judge it
ESO artstyle is GENERIC. G.E.N.E.R.I.C. At best and it will die as fast as possible.
you want to see what is popular? World Of Motherfreaking Warcraft. You want some more? League Of Legends with CARTOON GRAPHICS all over it's place.
No one gives a RAT'S ASS about Tesselation, real graphics and gritty POS. All depends on how you make it look good. Previously EQ developers had cartoony graphics in EQ1 - it was popular. EQ2 had more realistic graphics and required serious juiced PC at that time and it was not so popular.
EQN developers are smart and they are doing the right decision that you can't change and Thank God For That.
you know what? You can go and play ESO. No one stop you. I hope it won't die after one year. I, on the other hand can't wait for EQNext and first of all I'm going to play EQ Landmark this winter. Yes, baby. I'm going to play a lot. Yes! Yes! Yes!!111One
look back at the old ESO forum postings - gamers were commenting ESO looked terrible
you think its a fair poll? comparing ESO with a year of screenshots/videos vs a mmo recently revealed?
That is true. The first pictures of ESO looked not really good. This was a public relations disaster. Zenimax should have put “work in progress” on every picture in big letters.
If it is a similar case EQN I would be eased. But we have seen a lot of videos now and SOE hasn’t told us that any of this was not final. So if the final game doesn’t look like that it’s false advertising. If they make their own game look bad that is not our problem.
The complains about ESOs screenshots where mostly about technical issues. The graphics look somewhat dull and low poly. With EQN it’s the general art style. The kerra won’t look any better no matter how much you crank up the graphics.
You do have to remember, SOE-native players have been vested in that "cartoony" word for ten years now. It's their ammunition since 2003.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Personally, I can't stand EQ Next's cartoony graphics and it matters enough to me that I won't play it as is. This is just my personal feelings of course, and I played EQ1 for years and years, used to absolutely love the franchise. EQN's graphics look like their target audience are 7 year-olds. I am not interested.
I do hope that those who really like the graphics get a great game that they love, however.
Originally posted by jesteralways OP is trying to say that old thing again in a better way : "cartoony graphics sux".
Hey, the moderator doesn’t want use curse words around here. I would have said: “Cartoony graphics don’t work for EQN.”, because I like the cartoony art style in Farmville. But besides that you have summarized my opinion about the art style quite well. And I’m by far not the only one who thinks that way. You can’t deny that together others I have already underpinned this standpoint quite well.
Three reasons why a dev studio might look at a stylized art style over a realistic one
A: Low end machines, it is a lot easier to make a stylized art style scale-able then a realistic one. The human mind have a lot easier to "buy" something that does not look real.
B: Emotions are easier to get across when the face does not need to follow a 100% strict bone structure.
C: Scale, again it is a lot easier to play with the scale of the world when things are not hyper realistic.
It has been tested in pretty much every genre of gaming and it have yet to fail. Especially if you want to express a more light-hearted idea. (the average person tend to like that over heart attack serious things... If you doubt me, check out some "comedy" produced by the Finns.)
So i would say that the art style that EQ:N is using is VERY popular and not only in MMO´s but in pretty much every genre. Not saying realistic art styles are not popular, just that it is silly to dismiss a more stylized one.
But in the end i do not think it will matter, just as ESO will not change neither will EQ:N, and out fo those two i´l be playing EQ:N... If i want heart attack serious i watch some Swedish drama.
This clip explains why stylization is most of the time better then realistic. Until realistic can jump the gap for a reasonable price and with as many PC setups as possible working with it, you will after a year look at a realistic game and say"that looks so shity". Just go back to EQ1 /2 or older Elder Scrolls games. They look horrible unrealistic even they strife'd for a realistic style as much as they could back in their time. Maybe in another 10 or 20 years the realistic style is evolved enough to replace stylization in cost-efficiency, hardware requirement and still looking good over the years.
Well, you could also say (as of my looking) 73% like ESO or want it more gritty, and 63% like EQN or are not bothered by it.
Polls don't really mean much, and you can ask things in a way to get what you want or group results and present it in a way that makes you look right. My grouping showed a big 10% difference.
I am not so worried about the graphics, as I can play UO on the 2d client and not be upset, but I would like a little more work done on the character models, which I imagine would be getting done anyway (as early in the process as it seems).
Originally posted by Sengi Originally posted by jesteralwaysOP is trying to say that old thing again in a better way : "cartoony graphics sux".
Hey, the moderator doesnt want use curse words around here. I would have said: Cartoony graphics dont work for EQN., because I like the cartoony art style in Farmville. But besides that you have summarized my opinion about the art style quite well. And Im by far not the only one who thinks that way. You cant deny that together others I have already underpinned this standpoint quite well.
It's nearly impossible to misrepresent your own opinion. On the other hand, it's entirely possible to misconstrue your own opinion and something shared by the majority of people who might also have an opinion on the subject at hand.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Do you really think that SOE are going to scrap all of the work that they have done developing art assets for the game just to please (what is more than likely) a vocal minority who are butthurt over the art style? I don't think so.
I'm not sure what all these endless threads online about the art style are supposed to accomplish. Vocal posters on a message board don't tend to represent the larger audience for a game. And SOE aren't going to ditch all the work they've been doing because a few people are upset about the art.
I thought this can be tested. So I made a poll on ESO forum so see what the people over there think about ESOs art style: (link)
Nobody wants to talk down EQN. I am the first to defend its awesome features, the Voxelfarm engine, StoryBricks and above all the attempt to revive the sandbox mmo and bring it to the mainstream, but as a loyal fan you have so spell things out that you believe to be wrong about the game you like.
Sorry to break it to you, EQ was/is not popular when compared to franchises like ES and FF. They have a much larger and more dedicated fan base then EQ could ever dream of.
Over 10 million people purchased Skyrim. They are making Skyrim Online. No duh, it is going to be popular and well received. They've just given 10+ million people a way to play a game they loved alone, now with friends and tossed in PVP for giggles.
Your poll was in no way balanced or "fair". Basically asked if ESO fans like ESO (Skyrim) or if they would rather make it look like a completely different game for no apparent reason. Really?
It's like me going to a Mario forum and asking if they would prefer it to look like Halo. It makes no sense and leads to an obvious conclusion. Even though Mario has been around much longer and is more cartoony compared to Halo's more realistic style. Both are popular for completely different reasons and don't have to copy each other to do well.
EQN is an entirely new game not copying EQ's gameplay or graphics. EQ2 didn't copy EQ's graphics nor any of the other games in the IP. They are all different versions of the same IP with completely different styles. The only EQ game I like is EQ for this reason. It was a unique experience. While I see the visual connection between EQ, EQ2, and EQN, that doesn't mean I think they all look the same. They are all unique and appeal to different people (hence why they will have 4 different mmos active when LM and EQN come out).
Personally, I'm not a fan of the ES franchise and think ESO looks horribly bland and unexciting. Millions disagree with me, but millions more agree (those that don't play ES games).
There is nothing wrong with how EQN looks. It just doesn't appeal to you. I don't like EQ2's graphics, doesn't mean there is something wrong with it or that it needs to be altered. I don't like it, I don't play. Some times the simple solution is the best one.
Not sure why you continue to go on and on about the graphics, but they aren't changing at least not to look like ESO, Black Desert or whatever other "realistic" game (they all look pretty unrealistic to me being that they are video games) that you seem to want.
If you can't see past the graphics, I'm sorry, but maybe EQN isn't for you. Those of us that do like them are in for a treat. EQN's graphics will draw the largest crowd and that is the point of an mmorpg and a company creating one. Those that prefer EQ, EQ2, ESO, WoW, Wildstar, Black Desert, etc are free to play them at their leisure.
You can't make EQN into something that it isn't. While I mean it in the best way possible....Get over it. No amount of polls on this forum (all 144 current votes...) matter.
So you yourself don't believe your own polling but use it to validate your own opinion. I am suppose to look at it and agree with your opinion? From what I can tell and your own words, it seems like in general most people are fine with the art style with the exception of the Cheetos Cheetah Kerran.
What options do you think they gave up to allow for player generated content? When a game is developed there are things that can be done but only at the cost of other things. Do you really think that games like crisis and skyrim were whipped up on someones desktop?
I don't care about if a puddle ripples because my characters pant leg touched it, I want smarter environments and smarter NPC.
99 people even bothered to poll for ESO 955 for EQN neither of which is a good measure for what the consumer base wants. First you would need to know how many people planned to play them and with that determine how many you need to present the poll to in order to get an accurate poll
Your poll failed when you put like and grittier as a single choice. Most complaints about ESO are that the art style is too cartoony compared to proper Elder Scrolls games. I can only see the split results of 40%/40% like/gritty on EQN being the result of you splitting them for that poll and listing them as a single option for the ESO poll.
Originally posted by Kyllien Oh who cares? ESO is ESO, EQN is EQN. If they were the same we would only need one game. Let each attempt to draw their own crowds and everyone wins. And since EQN will be F2P I am betting that it will have many, many more players regardless of art style.
i love seeing shit like this. Of course its goin to have allot of players.... at first. Because its F2P allot of people that wouldn't have even played it if it had a sub attached will try it. But how long they play it will be a different story.
I myself wont even make the account to DL the game. They will not take my account and add it to the others so they can tell their board of trusties that the game is doing well because of all the accounts that were made. Wont be a statistic for their justification in why they made EQN the way they did.
SOE have been working on EQN for couple of years now, Smed himself said it. Zenimax started on ESO only after the release of skyrim. but that is not the point here, the poll is not even the point here, OP is trying to say that old thing again in a better way : "cartoony graphics sux".
I agree w you on Ops agenda
but even taking the Op at face value...theres tons of game footage for ESO
thats not true for EQN
when ESO was first showing its screenshots -- it was not met w player approval on these forums
Truth^ very little about ESo has been met with approval on these forums.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
EQN looks like its being made for the soccer mom's and the house husbands, pretty much the G Rated crowd. Nothing wrong with it though, they need an MMO too and why not the market is untapped except for the Wii. It looks like Sony is trying to get families playing MMO's and they think this art style is best for the direction they are going.
I personally would like a more gritty dark game since I have no children or plan on having children anytime soon. I work hard, play hard, party hard and would like to game hard but there are no games for me right now. I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer but I don't mind playing for 4 hours in a game that I enjoy after work instead of watching TV. What does this have to do with art style? Taste, I guess. I don't want to feel like I'm in a Disney cartoon when I game. I don't rent G rated movies and watch them so why would I play a game that looks like it's based in one.
ESO is looking pretty good art style wise, not sure its going to be for me with the game play though. Kind of sick of the theme park games as of late and would like to see a large AAA sandbox game with some good art style and a huge world. I will probably check it out since there is nothing else interesting coming my way in the near future, but doubt I will play longer than a few months at best.
Art style has an impact on everything in life, human's are visual animals, we use vision for pretty much everything we do everyday. These comments I keep reading about art style doesn't matter are bullshit, art style is what attracts you, art style is what immerses you, art style is expressive, art style is what keeps you exploring to see more of this amazing world you are in and art has been around since man first picked up something and drew a picture to communicate with others about what was going on in his mind.
Yeah i think SOE should just scrap the entire game and remake it with new art style because people on (be prepared to be shocked).. mmorpg.com dislike it.
Because we know for a fact that mmorpg.com represents millions of gamers world wide and always has a huge impact on success of MMOS.
This is what Rosie Rappaport said at the worlds panel at SOE live. (link) She stats at 6:30.
At an early stage in development they thought that EQN was going to look somewhat like Minecraft with big visible blocks, but that had changed a long time ago. I'm not sure at what point they knew they where using the VoxelFarm engine (link), but after that it was clear that EQN wouldn't have any visible blocks. The engine has been around for several years now. The world in EQN is very smooth. I couldn't tell if this are voxel-grafics or not by just looking at it.
I don't see how the VoxelFarm engine is forcing them to use any specific art style. Why can't we have EQN with grittier looking characters right now.
Threads like these crack me up. If you do not like a game don't play it. if you want to design a game start a business and go do it.
Its like walking into wendy's and tell them you don't like there meals so can they make you something from burger king.
People always want more and our culture carters to this.
Personally I like the look but hated the way wow looked when it was realeased for the same reasons that are being pointed out here. I ended up playing eq2 ( which launched at about the same time) and i think stuck with eq2 for 4-5 months then a friend let me play wow and I never looked back. That thought me one thing...... play the game before you judge it
ESO artstyle is GENERIC. G.E.N.E.R.I.C. At best and it will die as fast as possible.
you want to see what is popular? World Of Motherfreaking Warcraft. You want some more? League Of Legends with CARTOON GRAPHICS all over it's place.
No one gives a RAT'S ASS about Tesselation, real graphics and gritty POS. All depends on how you make it look good. Previously EQ developers had cartoony graphics in EQ1 - it was popular. EQ2 had more realistic graphics and required serious juiced PC at that time and it was not so popular.
EQN developers are smart and they are doing the right decision that you can't change and Thank God For That.
you know what? You can go and play ESO. No one stop you. I hope it won't die after one year. I, on the other hand can't wait for EQNext and first of all I'm going to play EQ Landmark this winter. Yes, baby. I'm going to play a lot. Yes! Yes! Yes!!111One
That is true. The first pictures of ESO looked not really good. This was a public relations disaster. Zenimax should have put “work in progress” on every picture in big letters.
If it is a similar case EQN I would be eased. But we have seen a lot of videos now and SOE hasn’t told us that any of this was not final. So if the final game doesn’t look like that it’s false advertising. If they make their own game look bad that is not our problem.
The complains about ESOs screenshots where mostly about technical issues. The graphics look somewhat dull and low poly. With EQN it’s the general art style. The kerra won’t look any better no matter how much you crank up the graphics.
You do have to remember, SOE-native players have been vested in that "cartoony" word for ten years now. It's their ammunition since 2003.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'll grab my whip!
Personally, I can't stand EQ Next's cartoony graphics and it matters enough to me that I won't play it as is. This is just my personal feelings of course, and I played EQ1 for years and years, used to absolutely love the franchise. EQN's graphics look like their target audience are 7 year-olds. I am not interested.
I do hope that those who really like the graphics get a great game that they love, however.
Hey, the moderator doesn’t want use curse words around here.
I would have said: “Cartoony graphics don’t work for EQN.”, because I like the cartoony art style in Farmville. But besides that you have summarized my opinion about the art style quite well. And I’m by far not the only one who thinks that way. You can’t deny that together others I have already underpinned this standpoint quite well.
Three reasons why a dev studio might look at a stylized art style over a realistic one
A: Low end machines, it is a lot easier to make a stylized art style scale-able then a realistic one. The human mind have a lot easier to "buy" something that does not look real.
B: Emotions are easier to get across when the face does not need to follow a 100% strict bone structure.
C: Scale, again it is a lot easier to play with the scale of the world when things are not hyper realistic.
It has been tested in pretty much every genre of gaming and it have yet to fail. Especially if you want to express a more light-hearted idea. (the average person tend to like that over heart attack serious things... If you doubt me, check out some "comedy" produced by the Finns.)
So i would say that the art style that EQ:N is using is VERY popular and not only in MMO´s but in pretty much every genre. Not saying realistic art styles are not popular, just that it is silly to dismiss a more stylized one.
But in the end i do not think it will matter, just as ESO will not change neither will EQ:N, and out fo those two i´l be playing EQ:N... If i want heart attack serious i watch some Swedish drama.
This have been a good conversation
This clip explains why stylization is most of the time better then realistic. Until realistic can jump the gap for a reasonable price and with as many PC setups as possible working with it, you will after a year look at a realistic game and say"that looks so shity". Just go back to EQ1 /2 or older Elder Scrolls games. They look horrible unrealistic even they strife'd for a realistic style as much as they could back in their time. Maybe in another 10 or 20 years the realistic style is evolved enough to replace stylization in cost-efficiency, hardware requirement and still looking good over the years.
Well, you could also say (as of my looking) 73% like ESO or want it more gritty, and 63% like EQN or are not bothered by it.
Polls don't really mean much, and you can ask things in a way to get what you want or group results and present it in a way that makes you look right. My grouping showed a big 10% difference.
I am not so worried about the graphics, as I can play UO on the 2d client and not be upset, but I would like a little more work done on the character models, which I imagine would be getting done anyway (as early in the process as it seems).
It's nearly impossible to misrepresent your own opinion. On the other hand, it's entirely possible to misconstrue your own opinion and something shared by the majority of people who might also have an opinion on the subject at hand.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Couldn't care less about this whole post.
Anyone who has been around for a while see's the same posts repeatedly.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both realistic and cartoony comic styles. The end.
I'm not sure what all these endless threads online about the art style are supposed to accomplish. Vocal posters on a message board don't tend to represent the larger audience for a game. And SOE aren't going to ditch all the work they've been doing because a few people are upset about the art.
Sorry to break it to you, EQ was/is not popular when compared to franchises like ES and FF. They have a much larger and more dedicated fan base then EQ could ever dream of.
Over 10 million people purchased Skyrim. They are making Skyrim Online. No duh, it is going to be popular and well received. They've just given 10+ million people a way to play a game they loved alone, now with friends and tossed in PVP for giggles.
Your poll was in no way balanced or "fair". Basically asked if ESO fans like ESO (Skyrim) or if they would rather make it look like a completely different game for no apparent reason. Really?
It's like me going to a Mario forum and asking if they would prefer it to look like Halo. It makes no sense and leads to an obvious conclusion. Even though Mario has been around much longer and is more cartoony compared to Halo's more realistic style. Both are popular for completely different reasons and don't have to copy each other to do well.
EQN is an entirely new game not copying EQ's gameplay or graphics. EQ2 didn't copy EQ's graphics nor any of the other games in the IP. They are all different versions of the same IP with completely different styles. The only EQ game I like is EQ for this reason. It was a unique experience. While I see the visual connection between EQ, EQ2, and EQN, that doesn't mean I think they all look the same. They are all unique and appeal to different people (hence why they will have 4 different mmos active when LM and EQN come out).
Personally, I'm not a fan of the ES franchise and think ESO looks horribly bland and unexciting. Millions disagree with me, but millions more agree (those that don't play ES games).
There is nothing wrong with how EQN looks. It just doesn't appeal to you. I don't like EQ2's graphics, doesn't mean there is something wrong with it or that it needs to be altered. I don't like it, I don't play. Some times the simple solution is the best one.
Not sure why you continue to go on and on about the graphics, but they aren't changing at least not to look like ESO, Black Desert or whatever other "realistic" game (they all look pretty unrealistic to me being that they are video games) that you seem to want.
If you can't see past the graphics, I'm sorry, but maybe EQN isn't for you. Those of us that do like them are in for a treat. EQN's graphics will draw the largest crowd and that is the point of an mmorpg and a company creating one. Those that prefer EQ, EQ2, ESO, WoW, Wildstar, Black Desert, etc are free to play them at their leisure.
You can't make EQN into something that it isn't. While I mean it in the best way possible....Get over it. No amount of polls on this forum (all 144 current votes...) matter.
What options do you think they gave up to allow for player generated content? When a game is developed there are things that can be done but only at the cost of other things. Do you really think that games like crisis and skyrim were whipped up on someones desktop?
I don't care about if a puddle ripples because my characters pant leg touched it, I want smarter environments and smarter NPC.
99 people even bothered to poll for ESO 955 for EQN neither of which is a good measure for what the consumer base wants. First you would need to know how many people planned to play them and with that determine how many you need to present the poll to in order to get an accurate poll
As a Customer of MMOs I ask... no... I demand ...
Great Game Design, New and Exciting Gameplay, and Great Realistic/Gritty Graphics from a New MMO.
I will be playing Neither.
i love seeing shit like this. Of course its goin to have allot of players.... at first. Because its F2P allot of people that wouldn't have even played it if it had a sub attached will try it. But how long they play it will be a different story.
I myself wont even make the account to DL the game. They will not take my account and add it to the others so they can tell their board of trusties that the game is doing well because of all the accounts that were made. Wont be a statistic for their justification in why they made EQN the way they did.
Truth^ very little about ESo has been met with approval on these forums.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson