Originally posted by gamesrfun A few responses to the irrational fanbois:1) This game is nothing like FFXI. So comparing it to FFXI in terms of retention models is ridiculous. 2) In fact, FFXIV version 1.0 was much closer to FFXI than this game is. That obviously didn't help, did it?3) So instead of comparing potential retention to a game it is nothing like, it is probably smarter and more suitable to compare it to games that it has much more in common with.4) The games it shares the most characteristics with (super easy, very good initial sales, themepark, unbalanced) tanked very fast.Now that I have that out of the way, let's extend what Mr. Yoshida said and follow it to its natural conclusion:He said that subscription gaming makes it easier to plan content, because you don't drop half your subscribers in a short period of time. I don't know what type of hallucinogenics he prefers, but it is quite possible to shed half your base, and fast.Does he not keep up with other MMOs? Is it just spin? Who knows. But the argument is flawed because there are numerous examples where this happens. MOREOVER, his game fits the initial criteria that you would need for such a drop.And he even said that they fund development based on subscriptions. But when the subscriptions curtail off and go down, quarter after quarter, let's take a guess what they will budget for a year down the road (hint: jack expletive).
I guess fanbois, h8ers and any other types of name calling that could probably diminish credibility of certain posters aside:
Games don't necessarily "share" characteristics because you said so does it? I don't see too many similarities between those games listed as games especially when one was created from an Eastern country and the others were all Western...completely different mindsets. By that logic, FFXI would probably be the closest thing to compare it with seeing that not many major Eastern MMO's have hit the West comparably as FFXIV is currently.
You might be correct in not being able to argue based on potential retention, but it has caught attention of many players at least which we can say more about in terms of FFXIV being attributed success as opposed to some of the other MMO's that have released currently Defiance etc. The potential of success is at least greater the more people you at least start off with and that fact at least can't be denied. It's better than not having them at all.
And I love the arguments in how the evil corporations are manipulating the limitations of the games. I agree with the poster before me how everyone pretends they know everything about business but quickly forget that these companies and businessmen still have to cater to an audience and have less control over the game than most realize. Companies try to put in what people want or else it just won't sell.
Obviously we can say FFXIV at least has put in enough in the game to get people to allocate their time into the world and care enough to make complaints so I would for the time being expect it to be considered successful. I still don't know where the basis of player attrition is coming from because I doubt its coming from the posters that apparently hate this game because they obviously aren't even playing it. Due to my previous statement, I'm fairly convinced this misperception is entirely fabricated by said population. You can scream as loud as you want and repeat as much as you want but it doesn't mean its true or reality.
Ok Chicken Little.. The Sky is falling, the Sky is falling.
Amazing that almost no retailer can keep copies of the game in stock. Picked up a copy today at gamestop and he said they just got a shipment in and they are all reserved. Just because the game doesn't meet your needs, doesn't meet its all doom and gloom.
LMAO.
Box sales mean almost nothing to a Subscription based game..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I played SWTOR and KNEW after level 20 that the game sucked...I didn't have to hit the end. There is already a strong sense of community and a boatload of stuff to do. I've only just hit 30 on my Conjuror and am now working on my job class of Arcanist...I'm at level 9. There is so much to do with crafting I don't know where to even begin.
I do play about 8 hours a day but I choose to sleep also
What is all this stuff to do? When I keep hearing that by your third job grind you have little option but to grind fates, I have a hard time believing a game has a decent amount of content in place.
So many mixed messages one side saying there's tons to do, while another says there is not, not to mention the double standard that's showing up in regard to this game compared to others that were mentioned by the OP. As this game does share a lot in common with those titles in terms of launch content, world size, or lack there of, invisible walls, WOWification, gear grinds etc.... These "issues" were exactly what earned those games the reputation they got at their launch. Yet in this case all of that stuff is just fine and dandy.
I gave the game a shot and stated it's enjoyable in my impressions of it, but my concern has always been, what sets it apart enough that will allow it to overcome the dreaded three month exodus all others like it have seen since around 06-07.
Why is it a concern for you? There will never be limitless content in a theme park like this. You are dreaming if you think a theme park will ever have sufficient content to satisfy every one for years without end. Devs churn out content to mellow it down and this game is no different with patches already planned and in the works. If you feel and dread that this game will have a massive three month exodus, then by all means you shouldn't bother playing it. I know that feeling of having wasted "time investment" in a game. I've been there in all the games whose worlds I never cared about.
At the moment, I am enjoying simply crafting and fostering a community in my server. Personally, I think this game has a lot of pontential - so much so, that I will stay. If people leave in the weeks or months to come, then I might be inclined to do so as well. I am hoping that would not be the case, but if it does then I might be inclined to leave as well. If it doesn't and people like me feel the same way about the world in this game, then that would be a good thing and would make me stay.
I started "MMOs" before the term was coined - through games like Legends of Kesmai and Kingdom of Drakkar. Back then, I simply played and hung out with the small community those games had. In this game, for a change, I am having the same feeling I had - playing without a care for what to do now or how I might run out of things to do. If it fails, then so be it - I will put it down and move on. All I know is that right now - I am enjoying being in this game.
That's just it, content can't fill the needs of those looking for long term MMO play. Why does that concern me? Because I liked the game, yet I do not want to jump in just to see it turned upside down a few months from now, as has been the case for many games the last few years.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Distopia Box sales mean almost nothing to a Subscription based game..
$30 per account is still nothing to scoff at especially on the 2nd iteration of the same game. It might not fully represent all the profits or even the majority of the profits for an MMO, but it represents how many people will actually even be able to subscribe to the MMO. So actually Box sales do mean something because without the box sale, the players wouldn't be able to subscribe in the first place.
I guess baseless argument without any real support is still baseless. Try getting past the 1st sentence next time if you plan to refute anything and be taken seriously.
I played SWTOR and KNEW after level 20 that the game sucked...I didn't have to hit the end. There is already a strong sense of community and a boatload of stuff to do. I've only just hit 30 on my Conjuror and am now working on my job class of Arcanist...I'm at level 9. There is so much to do with crafting I don't know where to even begin.I do play about 8 hours a day but I choose to sleep also
What is all this stuff to do? When I keep hearing that by your third job grind you have little option but to grind fates, I have a hard time believing a game has a decent amount of content in place.
So many mixed messages one side saying there's tons to do, while another says there is not, not to mention the double standard that's showing up in regard to this game compared to others that were mentioned by the OP. As this game does share a lot in common with those titles in terms of launch content, world size, or lack there of, invisible walls, WOWification, gear grinds etc.... These "issues" were exactly what earned those games the reputation they got at their launch. Yet in this case all of that stuff is just fine and dandy.
I gave the game a shot and stated it's enjoyable in my impressions of it, but my concern has always been, what sets it apart enough that will allow it to overcome the dreaded three month exodus all others like it have seen since around 06-07.
The more I play this game, the more I am realizing the target audience is atypical of what youd expect from a standard themepark demographic. Its a weird combination of casual pve and hardcore crafting dropped in a highly zoned yet utterly gorgeous world. Such a mixed bag, it is the polar opposite of what a lot of people on these forums look for in an mmorpg.
For me, this game's longevity lies in its economy. Kinda sad how rare this is now, but with no RMT or cash shops shoveling fluff, a provocative player driven economy emerges. A true player driven economy. And it is fueled by an equally provocative crafting system. The pve content drives crafting demand with each new content patch instead of stagnates it like most typical themeparks.
For people like me who play mmos for this type of thing, this game is home, really
Honestly i think you can say that about all of these games. After WoW, things simply haven't been the same to me personally. I think this genre is dying. The vocal crowd on forums shout for sandboxes and evolution. The rest of folks play the new titles that come out, some stay, most move on and jump on the next train. Rinse and repeat. Living, breathing worlds, unfortunately, are a thing of the past. People can cite EQNext, ESO, Wildstar, blah blah blah. The same is going to happen to them too, until eventually no one cares anymore. The sandbox people will never get their dream sandbox, and themeparks will die. There just simply won't be a genre anymore. We all will have moved on with other ambitions. That's how i see it.
Originally posted by Skymourne Honestly i think you can say that about all of these games. After WoW, things simply haven't been the same to me personally. I think this genre is dying. The vocal crowd on forums shout for sandboxes and evolution. The rest of folks play the new titles that come out, some stay, most move on and jump on the next train. Rinse and repeat. Living, breathing worlds, unfortunately, are a thing of the past. People can cite EQNext, ESO, Wildstar, blah blah blah. The same is going to happen to them too, until eventually no one cares anymore. The sandbox people will never get their dream sandbox, and themeparks will die. There just simply won't be a genre anymore. We all will have moved on with other ambitions. That's how i see it.
might be a little self important there heh. the concept of new players and developers to the genre should probably cross your mind. if we all thought like you, jazz wouldve been dead 70 years ago. but on the contrary, other people come along and rediscover. happens all the time everywhere.
Originally posted by Skymourne Honestly i think you can say that about all of these games. After WoW, things simply haven't been the same to me personally. I think this genre is dying. The vocal crowd on forums shout for sandboxes and evolution. The rest of folks play the new titles that come out, some stay, most move on and jump on the next train. Rinse and repeat. Living, breathing worlds, unfortunately, are a thing of the past. People can cite EQNext, ESO, Wildstar, blah blah blah. The same is going to happen to them too, until eventually no one cares anymore. The sandbox people will never get their dream sandbox, and themeparks will die. There just simply won't be a genre anymore. We all will have moved on with other ambitions. That's how i see it.
might be a little self important there heh. the concept of new players and developers to the genre should probably cross your mind. if we all thought like you, jazz wouldve been dead 70 years ago. but on the contrary, other people come along and rediscover. happens all the time everywhere.
I love jazz.! I also enjoy your positive outlook. I understand your point and hope that indeed things keep rolling but the last nine or ten years doesn't have a good track record with our genre here. I was not trying to sound self-important, just trying to view something from another angle aside from red vs blue. I try hard to look outside the box objectively at the whole situation, and this is the conclusion that i have come to, personally. This is not meant as fact.
Originally posted by Skymourne Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by SkymourneHonestly i think you can say that about all of these games. After WoW, things simply haven't been the same to me personally. I think this genre is dying. The vocal crowd on forums shout for sandboxes and evolution. The rest of folks play the new titles that come out, some stay, most move on and jump on the next train. Rinse and repeat. Living, breathing worlds, unfortunately, are a thing of the past. People can cite EQNext, ESO, Wildstar, blah blah blah. The same is going to happen to them too, until eventually no one cares anymore. The sandbox people will never get their dream sandbox, and themeparks will die. There just simply won't be a genre anymore. We all will have moved on with other ambitions. That's how i see it.
might be a little self important there heh. the concept of new players and developers to the genre should probably cross your mind. if we all thought like you, jazz wouldve been dead 70 years ago. but on the contrary, other people come along and rediscover. happens all the time everywhere.I love jazz.! I also enjoy your positive outlook. I understand your point and hope that indeed things keep rolling but the last nine or ten years doesn't have a good track record with our genre here. I was not trying to sound self-important, just trying to view something from another angle aside from red vs blue. I try hard to look outside the box objectively at the whole situation, and this is the conclusion that i have come to, personally. This is not meant as fact. Its fine and I apologize if my previous reply sounded condescending. What i see in the genre is positive change. i see crafting making a comeback. i see new mmos where housing is a launch feature or at least ready by the first major content patch. these things have been missing for awhile.
Over the last 6-7 years the MMO community has witnessed some very successful initial launches.
Age of Conan
WAR
SWTOR
Each of them crashed and burned very fast. They shared many of the same qualities, namely:
1) Seriously easy leveling at the start;
2) Major leveling and end-game nerfs soon after;
3) Standard theme park designs;
4) Initial game queue issues; and
5) Major bugs that were exploited early.
FFXIV shares all of these "symptoms". FATEs are so ridiculously OP that many casual players are in their 30s and 40s and anyone remotely hardcore is already 50. Amdapor Keep just received a massive nerf of the exponential variety. Everyone already knows about the initial login headaches. Endgame dungeon exploits abound.
The attrition rates of the games above were approximately 90% in the first 6 months. FFXIV does not look to be in better shape.
You forgot the most important aspects these games shared, namely:
6) All games were able to tap to the Japanese market that plays only Japanese games, essentially doubling their playerbases from the very beginning
7) All games were able to tap into the PS3(4) market, essentially doubling their playerbases with players that have yet to experience MMO's (ex. majority of initial WoW players).
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Over the last 6-7 years the MMO community has witnessed some very successful initial launches.
Age of Conan
WAR
SWTOR
Each of them crashed and burned very fast. They shared many of the same qualities, namely:
1) Seriously easy leveling at the start;
Every MMO has this
2) Major leveling and end-game nerfs soon after;
I fail to see any nerfs, if you refer to the adjustments of the dungeons to prevent speed runs, then that is not a nerf but a needed change.
3) Standard theme park designs;
applies to all recent mmos and ffxiv has non standard design too.
4) Initial game queue issues; and
every mmo had these
5) Major bugs that were exploited early.
Name just one exploit with link and proof please.
FFXIV shares all of these "symptoms". FATEs are so ridiculously OP that many casual players are in their 30s and 40s and anyone remotely hardcore is already 50. Amdapor Keep just received a massive nerf of the exponential variety. Everyone already knows about the initial login headaches. Endgame dungeon exploits abound.
The attrition rates of the games above were approximately 90% in the first 6 months. FFXIV does not look to be in better shape.
The game will have a healthy following just like FFXI has. I prefer a small but dedicated and mature community to the cesspool of something like WoW any day!
you have to understand,the people who make these statements base everything on wow.like it was the first mmorpg,which of course it was not..compared to wow and most other mmorpg ff is leagues a head,the graphics are great.yes tehy ran off a list that includes every mmorpg ever created including wow.how many nerfs has wow had,what no game never had que's than no game never grew.i got bored of wow after a year.i bet if this guy was around pre wow,he would have made the same comments to wow.
the comment about easy leveling at starts shows you have no concept of the game.maybe on your first job but to unlock the advanced jobs guess what you have to do a 2nd job.to unlock that advanced job for the 2nd job you have to get to lvl 30 in that job.by time you get to 3rd job you have no quests.the point is you cant find a group as a dps,in other games you make a 2nd char or 3rd.in ff you change jobs.this concept is the hardest for people to grasp.you are not a whm or a dps oir a tank you are all 3 if you want.
the only complaint i have is they need a bag system for each craft/gathering job.or more bags.
MMO's with end game designed around gear grinds and instance runs only really last until the next new shiny MMO is released promising new and exciting things. There are always players who will stick with a game until the end but the masses will always migrate. This has been the cycle for 7 or 8 years now and there is no end in sight unfortunately.
I played SWTOR and KNEW after level 20 that the game sucked...I didn't have to hit the end. There is already a strong sense of community and a boatload of stuff to do. I've only just hit 30 on my Conjuror and am now working on my job class of Arcanist...I'm at level 9. There is so much to do with crafting I don't know where to even begin.I do play about 8 hours a day but I choose to sleep also
What is all this stuff to do? When I keep hearing that by your third job grind you have little option but to grind fates, I have a hard time believing a game has a decent amount of content in place.
So many mixed messages one side saying there's tons to do, while another says there is not, not to mention the double standard that's showing up in regard to this game compared to others that were mentioned by the OP. As this game does share a lot in common with those titles in terms of launch content, world size, or lack there of, invisible walls, WOWification, gear grinds etc.... These "issues" were exactly what earned those games the reputation they got at their launch. Yet in this case all of that stuff is just fine and dandy.
I gave the game a shot and stated it's enjoyable in my impressions of it, but my concern has always been, what sets it apart enough that will allow it to overcome the dreaded three month exodus all others like it have seen since around 06-07.
For me, this game's longevity lies in its economy. Kinda sad how rare this is now, but with no RMT or cash shops shoveling fluff, a provocative player driven economy emerges. A true player driven economy. And it is fueled by an equally provocative crafting system. The pve content drives crafting demand with each new content patch instead of stagnates it like most typical themeparks.
For people like me who play mmos for this type of thing, this game is home, really
With any player driven economy, RMT will control it at some point. Only have to look back to XI to understand that.
I am really at a loss for an explanation as to how you guys got to 50 only to discover there is nothing to do. I mean, yeah, I can see technically how you did it, you sat in FATE groups for all the levels, but What I don't get is how you simply bypassed everything else. Did you join a GC? Did you rank up at all? Just getting up in ranks requires work outside FATEs you know. Do you all have the maxed base of 10K seals? That would be sad if you do? Have you done the story line with the associated dungeons? Have you done any Leves or do you have the maxed allowance? Again, pretty sad if you do. Do you guys realize just how much content you have cheated your selves out of? I don't think you do. So now that you are 50, you need to go back and do all that other stuff you should have been doing all along. That's what else there is to do at 50. It will probably take longer than you think
have not played the game and but some questions. What is there to do at end game ? Is crafting worthwhile? Is end game a series of raiding the same couple of dungeons for elite loot? If I wanted to lvl an alt would I be following exact same path as my previous one or two characters? Will the publisher be adding content on a bi weekly, monthly, bi monthly or quarterly schedule
Just me but I am going to have a hard time leaving GW2 for any game that won't downlevel my toon to allow me to revisit areas, does not have a variety of zones where I can level and does not do bi weekly content updates. A couple of buddies wanted me to come back to SWToR but I felt like I was playing half a game
Nha !s-e just need to stop trickle sale and resume full time sale.no game has had it this good .its been a month and they re still stuck refusing to sell.and supposedly they re testing their new hardware.next week -end they should be online.then they all resume sale.by the look of thing In game?I ain't worried people like this title.if they can fix the freaking paranoid DRM that keep disconnecting player we should be good till next wow expansion.and I think blizzard will need to outdo themselves this time.oh USA might pull out of ff14 who knows but the rest of the world will play ff14
Originally posted by Jackdog have not played the game and but some questions. What is there to do at end game ? Is crafting worthwhile? Is end game a series of raiding the same couple of dungeons for elite loot? If I wanted to lvl an alt would I be following exact same path as my previous one or two characters? Will the publisher be adding content on a bi weekly, monthly, bi monthly or quarterly schedule Just me but I am going to have a hard time leaving GW2 for any game that won't downlevel my toon to allow me to revisit areas, does not have a variety of zones where I can level and does not do bi weekly content updates. A couple of buddies wanted me to come back to SWToR but I felt like I was playing half a game
Who cares, there's more game to an MMO other than the end-game. Its a ridiculous and a sadly all too commonly shared viewpoint in how people determine whether or not they are going to play an MMO. Hey I left Guild Wars 2 easily because I just missed playing Final Fantasy. It's got a unique setting and feel and its awesome returning to that. If you haven't played Final Fantasy in a while, it's a nice MMO to experience and remind you how great the franchise is. If you are there just to game the system, then its probably not for you just like every other MMO that is just 3 weeks past release.
Originally posted by drbaltazar Nha !s-e just need to stop trickle sale and resume full time sale.no game has had it this good .its been a month and they re still stuck refusing to sell.and supposedly they re testing their new hardware.next week -end they should be online.then they all resume sale.by the look of thing In game?I ain't worried people like this title.if they can fix the freaking paranoid DRM that keep disconnecting player we should be good till next wow expansion.and I think blizzard will need to outdo themselves this time.oh USA might pull out of ff14 who knows but the rest of the world will play ff14
They are stopping sales and making it last a month on purpose, they know there will be high player loss so stopping sales till the point when most will leave will mask that. It's a pretty clever move.
Who cares, there's more game to an MMO other than the end-game. Its a ridiculous and a sadly all too commonly shared viewpoint in how people determine whether or not they are going to play an MMO. Hey I left Guild Wars 2 easily because I just missed playing Final Fantasy. It's got a unique setting and feel and its awesome returning to that. If you haven't played Final Fantasy in a while, it's a nice MMO to experience and remind you how great the franchise is. If you are there just to game the system, then its probably not for you just like every other MMO that is just 3 weeks past release.
well I care for one. I diont log on just to sit there and stare at the screen. I enjoy lvling alts but grow tired of replaying the same quest linesin the same locations after about the second alts. Replaying the same raid night after night fighting the same bosses in hope the gods of the random number generator will drop me a sword of extreme kickbutt...been there done that.
This tgame sounds like a fun game to buy and play for a month, maybe two same as I did with SWToR. Each to their own, my best gaming bud of over 10 years cannot stand GW 2 becasue he cant stand in one spot as a mage and spam his abilities. He just could not get the hang of the dodge mechanism and the concept of strafing just blew him away. Different game for different people though. Glad you are enjoyong this one
Second off: Tell that to Balmung and Midgard , those are packed servers. Fairy? Just as bad.
I can keep going.
Third off: Seriously I nor anyone else should take anything you say as anything more than speculation.
Not only do you lack facts and numbers... You assume, assume... To assume you are correct without any facts save other game's and their history.
Your assumptions do not drive reality.
Lets give it more than a month out of launch to see reality. Even six months but at this time?
Notes: Let us not even take this guy seriously. What analytical credentials does he have again? Where are the facts indicating a drop off so severe it's "bad".
These posts are like poisons. So brimming with lack of fact do they have it's amazing the post didn't just go "well this is after all coming out of my ass".
Meanwhile I'll be here in 118 que for Balmung for the next ten. Mostly punching small animals like a real man.
Originally posted by drbaltazar Nha !s-e just need to stop trickle sale and resume full time sale.no game has had it this good .its been a month and they re still stuck refusing to sell.and supposedly they re testing their new hardware.next week -end they should be online.then they all resume sale.by the look of thing In game?I ain't worried people like this title.if they can fix the freaking paranoid DRM that keep disconnecting player we should be good till next wow expansion.and I think blizzard will need to outdo themselves this time.oh USA might pull out of ff14 who knows but the rest of the world will play ff14
They are stopping sales and making it last a month on purpose, they know there will be high player loss so stopping sales till the point when most will leave will mask that. It's a pretty clever move.
Originally posted by drbaltazar Nha !s-e just need to stop trickle sale and resume full time sale.no game has had it this good .its been a month and they re still stuck refusing to sell.and supposedly they re testing their new hardware.next week -end they should be online.then they all resume sale.by the look of thing In game?I ain't worried people like this title.if they can fix the freaking paranoid DRM that keep disconnecting player we should be good till next wow expansion.and I think blizzard will need to outdo themselves this time.oh USA might pull out of ff14 who knows but the rest of the world will play ff14
They are stopping sales and making it last a month on purpose, they know there will be high player loss so stopping sales till the point when most will leave will mask that. It's a pretty clever move.
Or perhaps they want to keep the servers stable.
Hence why we have flood gates (Balmung was open yesterday and we obtained like....a huge influx of new players..I digress).
You see.. S-E? They are trying something they haven't done since the 90's. That is to say be profitable.
It requires far more foresight to be profitable than just sustainable.
If they keep selling DIGITAL copies like they were? We'd be overwhelmed. The ques would be back to 1007 errors.
They are doing this out of the hopes consumers recognize them as not being greedy fecetards.
It's a good faith method hat is common in japanese business.
Stop sales until you can meet demand. Anything else is a ponzi scheme.
That is to say selling slots that don't exist on the servers.
So sure..if you want to go the dumb route and assume they are villains trying to be clever about player loss you are free to do so.
However that doesn't make you close to right.
If they had not stopped sales we'd be complaining about flooding today. You can never win and this shows it.
They denied profits for stability and you get wackadoo's coming up with alternative motives like they are CSI.
It's pretty senseless.
Conspiracy: They are doing this to hide player loss.
Non-Conspiracy: They are operating under consumer good faith as they know they are on shakey ground with literally all of us.
I'm pretty sure their reasoning is not yours. It's simply not viable for a business to do that. It requires too much work. There are too many people who would pick it up. Or in your case rail against it without any thought other than "ALIENS!" because that's what you folks sound like. ALIENS!
If they keep selling DIGITAL copies like they were? We'd be overwhelmed. The ques would be back to 1007 errors.
They are doing this out of the hopes consumers recognize them as not being greedy fecetards.
It's a good faith method hat is common in japanese business.
Stop sales until you can meet demand. Anything else is a ponzi scheme.
That is to say selling slots that don't exist on the servers.
So sure..if you want to go the dumb route and assume they are villains trying to be clever about player loss you are free to do so.
However that doesn't make you close to right.
If they had not stopped sales we'd be complaining about flooding today. You can never win and this shows it.
They denied profits for stability and you get wackadoo's coming up with alternative motives like they are CSI.
It's pretty senseless.
Conspiracy: They are doing this to hide player loss.
Non-Conspiracy: They are operating under consumer good faith as they know they are on shakey ground with literally all of us.
....
You just have to realize that no matter what a company does, even if its the opposite of what they were complaining about before, there's a select group of people that just think ill of everything around them. They are literally toxic to reasoning and thinking all together. Just think of them as the FOX News of MMORPG's and I question why they frequent such forums sometimes.
A company allows sales of games despite server issues and they'll paint them as "greedy", sure. A company does the responsible thing and stops sales because of server issues and they still are painted "greedy" by stretching other assumptions. No matter what they do, these people can never be pleased or would even care to be please. They just want to watch the genre and make their criticisms like it matters. I even doubt they even play FFXIV yet alone an MMORPG in general.
BTW Companies trying to make money is nothing new, its the reason why they even exist ultimately. For SE to not make sales actually cuts them off from maximizing on the hype that has been generated behind it in the first place, so technically they aren't short-term maximizing on their profits as opposed to focusing on providing good service and ensuring good service in hopes of longer more residual profits.
Whichever direction these companies take, it can be perceived as "greedy" but they are purely limited by the audience they are trying to serve and they exist to make money just like anyone else working for a company with a job. Where the hell do you think your paychecks come from? Is it because your company isn't trying their best to make money? How do you expect to get your raises on your salaries/wages for next year? I think sometimes some people think these things come out of thin air.
Remember before pointing at anything else and screaming greed, look at yourselves first and make sure you adhere to the same "moral standards" that are unreasonably being applied to others. I doubt these people even know what introspecting is.
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I guess fanbois, h8ers and any other types of name calling that could probably diminish credibility of certain posters aside:
Games don't necessarily "share" characteristics because you said so does it? I don't see too many similarities between those games listed as games especially when one was created from an Eastern country and the others were all Western...completely different mindsets. By that logic, FFXI would probably be the closest thing to compare it with seeing that not many major Eastern MMO's have hit the West comparably as FFXIV is currently.
You might be correct in not being able to argue based on potential retention, but it has caught attention of many players at least which we can say more about in terms of FFXIV being attributed success as opposed to some of the other MMO's that have released currently Defiance etc. The potential of success is at least greater the more people you at least start off with and that fact at least can't be denied. It's better than not having them at all.
And I love the arguments in how the evil corporations are manipulating the limitations of the games. I agree with the poster before me how everyone pretends they know everything about business but quickly forget that these companies and businessmen still have to cater to an audience and have less control over the game than most realize. Companies try to put in what people want or else it just won't sell.
Obviously we can say FFXIV at least has put in enough in the game to get people to allocate their time into the world and care enough to make complaints so I would for the time being expect it to be considered successful. I still don't know where the basis of player attrition is coming from because I doubt its coming from the posters that apparently hate this game because they obviously aren't even playing it. Due to my previous statement, I'm fairly convinced this misperception is entirely fabricated by said population. You can scream as loud as you want and repeat as much as you want but it doesn't mean its true or reality.
Box sales mean almost nothing to a Subscription based game..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's just it, content can't fill the needs of those looking for long term MMO play. Why does that concern me? Because I liked the game, yet I do not want to jump in just to see it turned upside down a few months from now, as has been the case for many games the last few years.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
$30 per account is still nothing to scoff at especially on the 2nd iteration of the same game. It might not fully represent all the profits or even the majority of the profits for an MMO, but it represents how many people will actually even be able to subscribe to the MMO. So actually Box sales do mean something because without the box sale, the players wouldn't be able to subscribe in the first place.
I guess baseless argument without any real support is still baseless. Try getting past the 1st sentence next time if you plan to refute anything and be taken seriously.
The more I play this game, the more I am realizing the target audience is atypical of what youd expect from a standard themepark demographic. Its a weird combination of casual pve and hardcore crafting dropped in a highly zoned yet utterly gorgeous world. Such a mixed bag, it is the polar opposite of what a lot of people on these forums look for in an mmorpg.
For me, this game's longevity lies in its economy. Kinda sad how rare this is now, but with no RMT or cash shops shoveling fluff, a provocative player driven economy emerges. A true player driven economy. And it is fueled by an equally provocative crafting system. The pve content drives crafting demand with each new content patch instead of stagnates it like most typical themeparks.
For people like me who play mmos for this type of thing, this game is home, really
I love jazz.! I also enjoy your positive outlook. I understand your point and hope that indeed things keep rolling but the last nine or ten years doesn't have a good track record with our genre here. I was not trying to sound self-important, just trying to view something from another angle aside from red vs blue. I try hard to look outside the box objectively at the whole situation, and this is the conclusion that i have come to, personally. This is not meant as fact.
I love jazz.! I also enjoy your positive outlook. I understand your point and hope that indeed things keep rolling but the last nine or ten years doesn't have a good track record with our genre here. I was not trying to sound self-important, just trying to view something from another angle aside from red vs blue. I try hard to look outside the box objectively at the whole situation, and this is the conclusion that i have come to, personally. This is not meant as fact.
Its fine and I apologize if my previous reply sounded condescending. What i see in the genre is positive change. i see crafting making a comeback. i see new mmos where housing is a launch feature or at least ready by the first major content patch. these things have been missing for awhile.
You forgot the most important aspects these games shared, namely:
6) All games were able to tap to the Japanese market that plays only Japanese games, essentially doubling their playerbases from the very beginning
7) All games were able to tap into the PS3(4) market, essentially doubling their playerbases with players that have yet to experience MMO's (ex. majority of initial WoW players).
you have to understand,the people who make these statements base everything on wow.like it was the first mmorpg,which of course it was not..compared to wow and most other mmorpg ff is leagues a head,the graphics are great.yes tehy ran off a list that includes every mmorpg ever created including wow.how many nerfs has wow had,what no game never had que's than no game never grew.i got bored of wow after a year.i bet if this guy was around pre wow,he would have made the same comments to wow.
the comment about easy leveling at starts shows you have no concept of the game.maybe on your first job but to unlock the advanced jobs guess what you have to do a 2nd job.to unlock that advanced job for the 2nd job you have to get to lvl 30 in that job.by time you get to 3rd job you have no quests.the point is you cant find a group as a dps,in other games you make a 2nd char or 3rd.in ff you change jobs.this concept is the hardest for people to grasp.you are not a whm or a dps oir a tank you are all 3 if you want.
the only complaint i have is they need a bag system for each craft/gathering job.or more bags.
___________________________________
Inquisition
website.http://inqguild.net/
forum.http://inq.cbhx.com/index.php
Current Game FFXIV (Cactuar)
Looking for 1 healer for 8 mans.
With any player driven economy, RMT will control it at some point. Only have to look back to XI to understand that.
have not played the game and but some questions. What is there to do at end game ? Is crafting worthwhile? Is end game a series of raiding the same couple of dungeons for elite loot? If I wanted to lvl an alt would I be following exact same path as my previous one or two characters? Will the publisher be adding content on a bi weekly, monthly, bi monthly or quarterly schedule
Just me but I am going to have a hard time leaving GW2 for any game that won't downlevel my toon to allow me to revisit areas, does not have a variety of zones where I can level and does not do bi weekly content updates. A couple of buddies wanted me to come back to SWToR but I felt like I was playing half a game
I miss DAoC
Who cares, there's more game to an MMO other than the end-game. Its a ridiculous and a sadly all too commonly shared viewpoint in how people determine whether or not they are going to play an MMO. Hey I left Guild Wars 2 easily because I just missed playing Final Fantasy. It's got a unique setting and feel and its awesome returning to that. If you haven't played Final Fantasy in a while, it's a nice MMO to experience and remind you how great the franchise is. If you are there just to game the system, then its probably not for you just like every other MMO that is just 3 weeks past release.
They are stopping sales and making it last a month on purpose, they know there will be high player loss so stopping sales till the point when most will leave will mask that. It's a pretty clever move.
well I care for one. I diont log on just to sit there and stare at the screen. I enjoy lvling alts but grow tired of replaying the same quest linesin the same locations after about the second alts. Replaying the same raid night after night fighting the same bosses in hope the gods of the random number generator will drop me a sword of extreme kickbutt...been there done that.
This tgame sounds like a fun game to buy and play for a month, maybe two same as I did with SWToR. Each to their own, my best gaming bud of over 10 years cannot stand GW 2 becasue he cant stand in one spot as a mage and spam his abilities. He just could not get the hang of the dodge mechanism and the concept of strafing just blew him away. Different game for different people though. Glad you are enjoyong this one
I miss DAoC
Holynutballs.
First off it's a fun game. With a great theme.
Second off: Tell that to Balmung and Midgard , those are packed servers. Fairy? Just as bad.
I can keep going.
Third off: Seriously I nor anyone else should take anything you say as anything more than speculation.
Not only do you lack facts and numbers... You assume, assume... To assume you are correct without any facts save other game's and their history.
Your assumptions do not drive reality.
Lets give it more than a month out of launch to see reality. Even six months but at this time?
Notes: Let us not even take this guy seriously. What analytical credentials does he have again? Where are the facts indicating a drop off so severe it's "bad".
These posts are like poisons. So brimming with lack of fact do they have it's amazing the post didn't just go "well this is after all coming out of my ass".
Meanwhile I'll be here in 118 que for Balmung for the next ten. Mostly punching small animals like a real man.
Ya, that's why they did it.
Or perhaps they want to keep the servers stable.
Hence why we have flood gates (Balmung was open yesterday and we obtained like....a huge influx of new players..I digress).
You see.. S-E? They are trying something they haven't done since the 90's. That is to say be profitable.
It requires far more foresight to be profitable than just sustainable.
If they keep selling DIGITAL copies like they were? We'd be overwhelmed. The ques would be back to 1007 errors.
They are doing this out of the hopes consumers recognize them as not being greedy fecetards.
It's a good faith method hat is common in japanese business.
Stop sales until you can meet demand. Anything else is a ponzi scheme.
That is to say selling slots that don't exist on the servers.
So sure..if you want to go the dumb route and assume they are villains trying to be clever about player loss you are free to do so.
However that doesn't make you close to right.
If they had not stopped sales we'd be complaining about flooding today. You can never win and this shows it.
They denied profits for stability and you get wackadoo's coming up with alternative motives like they are CSI.
It's pretty senseless.
Conspiracy: They are doing this to hide player loss.
Non-Conspiracy: They are operating under consumer good faith as they know they are on shakey ground with literally all of us.
I'm pretty sure their reasoning is not yours. It's simply not viable for a business to do that. It requires too much work. There are too many people who would pick it up. Or in your case rail against it without any thought other than "ALIENS!" because that's what you folks sound like. ALIENS!
You just have to realize that no matter what a company does, even if its the opposite of what they were complaining about before, there's a select group of people that just think ill of everything around them. They are literally toxic to reasoning and thinking all together. Just think of them as the FOX News of MMORPG's and I question why they frequent such forums sometimes.
A company allows sales of games despite server issues and they'll paint them as "greedy", sure. A company does the responsible thing and stops sales because of server issues and they still are painted "greedy" by stretching other assumptions. No matter what they do, these people can never be pleased or would even care to be please. They just want to watch the genre and make their criticisms like it matters. I even doubt they even play FFXIV yet alone an MMORPG in general.
BTW Companies trying to make money is nothing new, its the reason why they even exist ultimately. For SE to not make sales actually cuts them off from maximizing on the hype that has been generated behind it in the first place, so technically they aren't short-term maximizing on their profits as opposed to focusing on providing good service and ensuring good service in hopes of longer more residual profits.
Whichever direction these companies take, it can be perceived as "greedy" but they are purely limited by the audience they are trying to serve and they exist to make money just like anyone else working for a company with a job. Where the hell do you think your paychecks come from? Is it because your company isn't trying their best to make money? How do you expect to get your raises on your salaries/wages for next year? I think sometimes some people think these things come out of thin air.
Remember before pointing at anything else and screaming greed, look at yourselves first and make sure you adhere to the same "moral standards" that are unreasonably being applied to others. I doubt these people even know what introspecting is.