Im not having problems selling the things Im crafting, but OP needs to look at what things, other than finished items he can craft.
I am however having issues with repeating the same dungeons over and over and over ad naseum for tomes. I am not happy with the grind being so repetitive.
I remember grinding AAs in EQ, possibly a grind one could say was never ending in as so much AAs didnt lose their appeal with new content, which items usually do as newer ones are introduced, and still I didnt find it boring. - Because the grind in those days took place in a social setting with time for chatting and laughs. - These days, the grind is basically speedruns, and people getting obnoxious if a little chat and fun adds to the time for running through the same old dungeon. - I dont get the appeal of that. I am bored with it.
So I dont think the game has so much appeal as I had hoped.
Also, I dont think its a good thing that one has to advertise the longevity of end game by stating how many months of tome grind (in the same dungeons or fates) people have to do to get the best gear. - Is it really something to emphasize as a good thing, that most players will have to do the same tome grind for 3+ months to get better gear. And why are we ok with that being endgame. - Yuk.
Good post OP, pretty much sums up most of the new generation of MMORPG's.
and to all the people saying of course there is players who sink 6 hours a day into a game and finish it fast... well when half the population does that, and the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,
and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.
and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.
and ones where craftings is sparse, and niche ( Asheron's Call ), where most players don't train Lockpick, because you have limited amount of skill credits, but those who do get called on do Carve keys in the Market, go on quests with others to unlock doors, ect and AC had a lot of Niche craftings, where it was useful from Start of the game, all the way through, and alot of the players might forgoe a craft for more defensive or offensive skills, or magics, but if you had a craft, you generally we're needed.
Like in AC, if you had armor tinkering, weapon tinkers skills, magic items tinkering, and each one of those is absolutely needed, one needed to apply Steel to there armor to raise it's Armor level, or Iron to weapons to raise damage, or Brass to weapons to raise % melee defense. Magic tink for imbueing them with special properties. There was a plethora of different combinations, and each could be uniquely applied to situations through out the game depending on your play style.
the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,
and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.
and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.
Lol speak for yourself. I don't see the majority of people finishing all the content anytime soon. The game is packed with stuff to do but also lets you skip most of it instead of forcing it down your throat.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,
and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.
and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.
Lol speak for yourself. I don't see the majority of people finishing all the content anytime soon. The game is packed with stuff to do but also lets you skip most of it instead of forcing it down your throat.
I believe you are incorrect, it's just like Diablo 2, eventually you are going to get burned out on doings the lame things inbetween 1-50, and think you need to powerlevel to max level, with Baal runs, or Cow runs, whatever.
But sadly with this game, both the path and the end are quite boring and lack depth.
I remember the release of FFXI in Japan. The same thing was said about that game. Well it was, and still is pretty damn successful. FFXIV will do just fine and one thing SE does well, and that is content updates. Not just small little things.
Hardcores are already on Bahamut Coil #4-#5. Some of those very same endgame free companies already had everything on farm status by week 2 or 3. For groups like that the only thing challenging are the later stages of that instance/dungeon. For semi-hardcore/mid-core players the only challenging at this point is Titan's arena and Bahamut's coil. Casuals "probably" will never get to Bahamut's Coil (without the help of newly introduced higher ilvl items) so chances are their most difficult encounter will most likely be Titan's arena.
This is very typical of almost every single themepark MMO that has released in the past 5 years or so. You usually have 1-2 zones/dungeons/instances that are challenging with the rest being... well "almost" handed to you. What do you consider challenging in the game? Please don't be like Murugan and others who said that the low level dungeons were very challenging or that the Ifrit fight is challenging. And why would he deserve anything in "missing out" this challenge?
It's almost like the MMO industry has completely lost its marbles. Consider how many games have released now with this ultra casual MMO model, and either failed outright, or had mediocre results. They just keep doing it over and over and over again, spending tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. Very few of them are viable long-term games, and many times, the companies themselves are struggling internally to keep their games afloat.
I don't know. At this point I have to assume any company that releases yet another casual, solo-focused theme park game is just operating from a position of complete willful ignorance.
Either willful ignorance or realizing too late and are just trying to make some of that money back before making the switch (most likely what will happen to TESO) or eventually shut down (like the announcement of Warhammer Online this week). It doesn't take a crystal ball or anything of the sort to see what the trend has been in the past 5 years and how future games will most likely fall into the same vicious cycle. At this point in time there are only 10 MMORPGs that operate exclusively using the P2P business model out of the 600 online titles. 7 of those games were released prior to 2005. Only 3 games released post 2005 use the P2P model as their sole source of revenue.
DarkFall 2009 The Hammers End 2013 Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 2013
The rest of the games that released using the P2P business model after 2005? They either shut down, went F2P or went F2P and P2W. In almost every case server merges ended up being quite severe. I've talked about half a dozen points in the past that companies continue to make (the same mistakes over and over again), but this whole idea of streamlining these games to the point of making them so casual/single-duo player-minded/lack of content is usually one of the top three reasons as to why so many people leave these games around the 3-6 month mark.
Originally posted by KingAlkaiser
AmbrosiaAmor
I love that pic you posted (the final fantasy 11 blm vs ff14 blm ) it completely sums up how i feel about ff14 combat system it makes it look like developers think players are too stupid to have a variety of things to do or anything complex, ff14 has extreme and i mean extremely over casualised/simplified combat/over all game/etc as explained so much throughout this thread and forum.
I miss variety and complexity.
I agree wholeheartedly. The picture to me isn't just about FFXIV though. It is symbolic of "almost" every themepark MMORPG released in the past 5 years. Don't get me wrong, each of these heavily casualised generic themepark MMO do offer one or two and in some extreme rare instances three difficult/challenging arenas/zones/dungeons/bosses within the first 6 months of release. But after that? Hmm...
Check out this AC ( described the game above and here ) Combat video, how you like dodging arrows, dodging spells, jumping to perch, hiding behind trees, ect?
EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?
I'm not surprised you don't know, as you said the same thing.
To me that explains a lot.
That only explains one thing (not a lot) that you are trying to tell us that FFXIV is more challenging than EVE? since you are being so vague, it is a safe guess to make. And if that is true..i would like to have whatever you are smoking.
Originally posted by djnexus After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.
Good job listening to people with an agenda.
You really deserve to miss out on the challenge and meaningful crafting.
Granted, you said that EVE is challenging. Suddenly I have no idea wtf did I just read.
EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?
EvE is a spreadsheet game where fights are decided before they happen. There is next to no skill involved in PvP. People only PvP with you if they know they will win / have the better ship/equipment, If they don't they will run. Big fights are just blobs where nothing really matters and all you hope is that you survive long enough to get a few shots off.
Crafting, you basically just need to pay for a few years waiting to get your skills up, drop a tower to produce and again, pay your monthly while you wait for the items to complete. It's boring like nothing else!
Originally posted by djnexus After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.
Good job listening to people with an agenda.
You really deserve to miss out on the challenge and meaningful crafting.
Granted, you said that EVE is challenging. Suddenly I have no idea wtf did I just read.
EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?
EvE is a spreadsheet game where fights are decided before they happen. There is next to no skill involved in PvP. People only PvP with you if they know they will win / have the better ship/equipment, If they don't they will run. Big fights are just blobs where nothing really matters and all you hope is that you survive long enough to get a few shots off.
Crafting, you basically just need to pay for a few years waiting to get your skills up, drop a tower to produce and again, pay your monthly while you wait for the items to complete. It's boring like nothing else!
Someone was really playing EVE all wrong. But not a conversation for this thread.
Regarding the OP, this game will go like most, after the rush dies down the fans will stick around for many years to come and life will go on.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by djnexus After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.
Good job listening to people with an agenda.
You really deserve to miss out on the challenge and meaningful crafting.
Granted, you said that EVE is challenging. Suddenly I have no idea wtf did I just read.
EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?
EvE is a spreadsheet game where fights are decided before they happen. There is next to no skill involved in PvP. People only PvP with you if they know they will win / have the better ship/equipment, If they don't they will run. Big fights are just blobs where nothing really matters and all you hope is that you survive long enough to get a few shots off.
Crafting, you basically just need to pay for a few years waiting to get your skills up, drop a tower to produce and again, pay your monthly while you wait for the items to complete. It's boring like nothing else!
lol.... not even surprised by the response.
I don't want to drag this topic anymore off topic because this is about FFXIV's staying power. And as far as that is concerned. Free month isn't over yet. But don't be surprised if SE announces server merges in few months.
As soon as I saw the map of the game world, I knew this wouldn't be the game for me. It is ridiculously tiny for a MMORPG. People running out of content and not even a month in? Holy crap that's bad. I was looking for the next EQ1 that could keep you mesmerized for years. This is the exact opposite it seems. Good thing I only spent $22 on it.
Another thought I wanted to share about this game pertains to the endgame, and the "challenge" associated with it.
Many people have been defending the incredible difficulty of the endgame. However, the difficulty isn't actually the problem. The problem is the limited number of alternatives to gearing up for these fights. A perfect example if when you fight HM Ifrit.
The first time you fight Ifrit, it's semi-daunting. You don't know the moves, the timings, the order he's going to do things, the rotation on his glyphs, etc. However, once you run the fight 2-3 times, it gets to the point where you're legitimately farming Ifrit. You need Ifrit's weapon to keep progressing, period.
An easy way to get geared for Ifrit is to run Amdapor Keep. Do a few runs a week and you'll get an ilvl 70 gear piece. After acquiring just 1-2, complimented with Ifrit's weapon, you go to Garuda. If your party fails the gear-check, you lose. Even if you know the fight, you lose because your stats aren't in order.
Titan is more of the same, but he's MUCH more restrictive. Essentially, if you aren't wearing 100% top tier gear, the fight is nearly impossible. Advanced parties can carry 1 or possibly even 2 undergeared players, but even then they still need to know the fight.
The biggest challenge of the game is not so much the fights themselves, but the stringent and frequent gear checks that have limited options and alternatives available. Run Titan, though, with Garuda's weapon and full Darklight 2 gear; it's a cakewalk. Titan is *substantially* easier. That's kind of the problem with the entire end-game philosophy. You have to be excited and willing to grind so that you can.... keep grinding the same few places for miniscule gear gains. Despite being able to kill HM Ifrit with ease, I had to kill him nearly 35 times before I got my bow. Despite the ease of running Amdapor Keep, you have to run it nearly 20+ times to get geared up for endgame. However, AK isn't even hard if you're wearing level 45 AF gear. It's the simple repetition of going through the motions. While, like with most dungeons, you might die a few times on your first try, after that, you're just going through the motions, freely farming tomes.
While I realize that any game is easier when you know the fights and such (Dark Souls, anyone?) there's a false sense of difficulty in this game. Much like Dark Souls, things are only mildly challenging the first time, and after that, it's just timesinking for gear. I really do believe that as more and more of you hit 50, you'll see exactly how tedious it is. There's also a couple reasons for this.
1) There's no unique stats to gear at all. All archer/bard gear is the same, all tank gear is the same, all caster gear is the same; the only difference is a few + points on the pre-existing stats.
2) There's no "speccing" because of how basic the attribute system is. Since attributes are essentially dump stats, and all gear is identical, all players play and exp exactly the same, run dungeons the same, etc.
3) Because of this, all end-game fights essentially are carbon-copies. There's no real variety to the fights because there's no real variety to gear or characters.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Another thought I wanted to share about this game pertains to the endgame, and the "challenge" associated with it.
Many people have been defending the incredible difficulty of the endgame. However, the difficulty isn't actually the problem. The problem is the limited number of alternatives to gearing up for these fights. A perfect example if when you fight HM Ifrit.
The first time you fight Ifrit, it's semi-daunting. You don't know the moves, the timings, the order he's going to do things, the rotation on his glyphs, etc. However, once you run the fight 2-3 times, it gets to the point where you're legitimately farming Ifrit. You need Ifrit's weapon to keep progressing, period.
An easy way to get geared for Ifrit is to run Amdapor Keep. Do a few runs a week and you'll get an ilvl 70 gear piece. After acquiring just 1-2, complimented with Ifrit's weapon, you go to Garuda. If your party fails the gear-check, you lose. Even if you know the fight, you lose because your stats aren't in order.
Titan is more of the same, but he's MUCH more restrictive. Essentially, if you aren't wearing 100% top tier gear, the fight is nearly impossible. Advanced parties can carry 1 or possibly even 2 undergeared players, but even then they still need to know the fight.
The biggest challenge of the game is not so much the fights themselves, but the stringent and frequent gear checks that have limited options and alternatives available. Run Titan, though, with Garuda's weapon and full Darklight 2 gear; it's a cakewalk. Titan is *substantially* easier. That's kind of the problem with the entire end-game philosophy. You have to be excited and willing to grind so that you can.... keep grinding the same few places for miniscule gear gains. Despite being able to kill HM Ifrit with ease, I had to kill him nearly 35 times before I got my bow. Despite the ease of running Amdapor Keep, you have to run it nearly 20+ times to get geared up for endgame. However, AK isn't even hard if you're wearing level 45 AF gear. It's the simple repetition of going through the motions. While, like with most dungeons, you might die a few times on your first try, after that, you're just going through the motions, freely farming tomes.
While I realize that any game is easier when you know the fights and such (Dark Souls, anyone?) there's a false sense of difficulty in this game. Much like Dark Souls, things are only mildly challenging the first time, and after that, it's just timesinking for gear. I really do believe that as more and more of you hit 50, you'll see exactly how tedious it is. There's also a couple reasons for this.
1) There's no unique stats to gear at all. All archer/bard gear is the same, all tank gear is the same, all caster gear is the same; the only difference is a few + points on the pre-existing stats.
2) There's no "speccing" because of how basic the attribute system is. Since attributes are essentially dump stats, and all gear is identical, all players play and exp exactly the same, run dungeons the same, etc.
3) Because of this, all end-game fights essentially are carbon-copies. There's no real variety to the fights because there's no real variety to gear or characters.
You can basically say the same thing about every single MMORPG in existence, there has never been an MMORPG that was challenging, they were all just time consuming, you put in time, you get the gear, you get strong enough to beat any content the game offers? What's new?
Hardcores are already on Bahamut Coil #4-#5. Some of those very same endgame free companies already had everything on farm status by week 2 or 3. For groups like that the only thing challenging are the later stages of that instance/dungeon. For semi-hardcore/mid-core players the only challenging at this point is Titan's arena and Bahamut's coil. Casuals "probably" will never get to Bahamut's Coil (without the help of newly introduced higher ilvl items) so chances are their most difficult encounter will most likely be Titan's arena.
This is very typical of almost every single themepark MMO that has released in the past 5 years or so. You usually have 1-2 zones/dungeons/instances that are challenging with the rest being... well "almost" handed to you. What do you consider challenging in the game? Please don't be like Murugan and others who said that the low level dungeons were very challenging or that the Ifrit fight is challenging. And why would he deserve anything in "missing out" this challenge?
It's been a month since release and the game still hasn't been completely beaten. Considering that is what the MMO hardcore folks do, beat stuff no matter the difficulty in a matter of days, I don't see what's not challenging about the game in its current iteration.
The dumb thing about this is the amount of nonsense regarding people's expectations when it comes to difficulty. The players who even take a proper try at beating the hardest content are not more than a tiny tiny group of players at best. They are not worth developing substantial content for, the only reason to even go this far is to be able to say that such encounters exist because MMO gamers are anal about the game having difficult content they will never get to experience.
Either way, what you say is completely true. This is very typical for a themepark MMO. I don't say this is typical for a video game, because in general video games don't even go this far to please the hardcore crowd with challenging gameplay.
At the end of the day I am only comparing this game's difficulty to the difficulty of games out there, as this product is one of them. I am not comparing the game's difficulty to someone's hyper-inflated and/or flawed way of thinking of difficulty in an MMO, as that is biased and thus can be ignored. And in the comparison I have made the game comes off as challenging from start to finish. Compare the low level dungeons to low level dungeons of other games, and it is challenging. Compare the hardest encounters to hardest encounters of other games, and as nobody has even beaten the game yet it pretty much comes off as challenging.
The people at MMORPG.com always define difficulty through what they consider difficult, or what the top level players consider difficult - therefore completely subjective and biased beyond hope. I hope that doesn't apply to you as in that case I fear I have wasted a precious moment of my time.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Another thought I wanted to share about this game pertains to the endgame, and the "challenge" associated with it.
Many people have been defending the incredible difficulty of the endgame. However, the difficulty isn't actually the problem. The problem is the limited number of alternatives to gearing up for these fights. A perfect example if when you fight HM Ifrit.
The first time you fight Ifrit, it's semi-daunting. You don't know the moves, the timings, the order he's going to do things, the rotation on his glyphs, etc. However, once you run the fight 2-3 times, it gets to the point where you're legitimately farming Ifrit. You need Ifrit's weapon to keep progressing, period.
An easy way to get geared for Ifrit is to run Amdapor Keep. Do a few runs a week and you'll get an ilvl 70 gear piece. After acquiring just 1-2, complimented with Ifrit's weapon, you go to Garuda. If your party fails the gear-check, you lose. Even if you know the fight, you lose because your stats aren't in order.
Titan is more of the same, but he's MUCH more restrictive. Essentially, if you aren't wearing 100% top tier gear, the fight is nearly impossible. Advanced parties can carry 1 or possibly even 2 undergeared players, but even then they still need to know the fight.
The biggest challenge of the game is not so much the fights themselves, but the stringent and frequent gear checks that have limited options and alternatives available. Run Titan, though, with Garuda's weapon and full Darklight 2 gear; it's a cakewalk. Titan is *substantially* easier. That's kind of the problem with the entire end-game philosophy. You have to be excited and willing to grind so that you can.... keep grinding the same few places for miniscule gear gains. Despite being able to kill HM Ifrit with ease, I had to kill him nearly 35 times before I got my bow. Despite the ease of running Amdapor Keep, you have to run it nearly 20+ times to get geared up for endgame. However, AK isn't even hard if you're wearing level 45 AF gear. It's the simple repetition of going through the motions. While, like with most dungeons, you might die a few times on your first try, after that, you're just going through the motions, freely farming tomes.
While I realize that any game is easier when you know the fights and such (Dark Souls, anyone?) there's a false sense of difficulty in this game. Much like Dark Souls, things are only mildly challenging the first time, and after that, it's just timesinking for gear. I really do believe that as more and more of you hit 50, you'll see exactly how tedious it is. There's also a couple reasons for this.
1) There's no unique stats to gear at all. All archer/bard gear is the same, all tank gear is the same, all caster gear is the same; the only difference is a few + points on the pre-existing stats.
2) There's no "speccing" because of how basic the attribute system is. Since attributes are essentially dump stats, and all gear is identical, all players play and exp exactly the same, run dungeons the same, etc.
3) Because of this, all end-game fights essentially are carbon-copies. There's no real variety to the fights because there's no real variety to gear or characters.
Your statement " You need Ifrit's weapon to keep progressing, period." is already factually wrong given that you could buy a HQ i70 weapon as well to progress.
Your statement " You need Ifrit's weapon to keep progressing, period." is already factually wrong given that you could buy a HQ i70 weapon as well to progress.
But crafting is useless?
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Originally posted by CallsignVega As soon as I saw the map of the game world, I knew this wouldn't be the game for me. It is ridiculously tiny for a MMORPG. People running out of content and not even a month in? Holy crap that's bad. I was looking for the next EQ1 that could keep you mesmerized for years. This is the exact opposite it seems. Good thing I only spent $22 on it.
I don't even understand how people can go "OMFG I played for 200 hours and now there's nothing else to do, this game has a shitty amount of content!" You just got 200 hours worth of a game from a $30 game, and maybe if you did something else other than play video games you would still have things to do. I for one am nearing the end of the first month with still plenty to do and probably won't run out of anything to do because they will be adding a lot of content next patches.
Can't say I disagree with most of what the OP wrote, except for the post 50 content since I haven't gotten there yet. Crafting does seem kind of pointless esp. with the ability to have one character be all classes and jobs. I just saved my lower level gear to use when I leveled other classes. So, while I absolutely love the class system (its by far my favourite part of the game) the lack of alts seems to be hurting the crafting market. FATES give way too much xp for the amount of effort given. Usually its just a zerg and trivializes any sort of difficulty there is. This changes when there's less people around but right now FATE grinding is the fastest way to level.
As for the duty finder, it is MUCH easier to que as a tank (no healer for me so I can't say) than it is as dps. One reason for this, apart from most people being a dps class, is the group size. Its only 4, 2 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank. If it was 5 or 6 you can add more dps and alleviate some of the wait time. The dungeons would have to be re-tuned a bit but shouldn't be too hard. Just have more mobs or give them more HPs.
The gold (gil, whatever) sellers in this game are the worst I have ever seen, even with all the f2p games I've tried over the years. The chat system is stupid. You can't just right click on someone's name and hit ignore like you can in almost every other MMO. You have to manually type the name in order to ignore/blacklist them. Dumb and dumb.
I actually enjoy the game and it is pretty fun. They did a real nice job of un-fubaring the game from its former state and they should get some credit for doing that. Usually when an MMO falls on its face out of the starting blocks its game over. However, like the OP, I don't know if I'll be subbing past the first month. There might be just too much to overlook and I don't have much faith in SE ability to address it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You've claimed some interesting things and can't nor won't back them up with anything but "oh gee how ignorant you people are! amusing!".
But I guess that is your whole existence on this board. Oops. That, too, was not a truth bomb.
You omitted a statement in their post that could easily be looked at as an invitation to start a new thread to continue the debate.
Bigdaddy simply stated he didn't want to continue dragging this particular thread off-topic. I don't see him attempting to "avoid being wrong", as you've previously asserted.
You omitted a statement in their post that could easily be looked at as an invitation to start a new thread to continue the debate.
Bigdaddy simply stated he didn't want to continue dragging this particular thread off-topic. I don't see him attempting to "avoid being wrong", as you've previously asserted.
Where is this new thread to continue the "debate"? Oh, he didn't make one, and isn't even about to. How utterly surprising!
He comes in here stating things that clearly warrant further backing up, and does not follow through. So are you saying I should be the one making the new thread for calling him out on his bluff? Ain't gonna happen dude.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
You omitted a statement in their post that could easily be looked at as an invitation to start a new thread to continue the debate.
Bigdaddy simply stated he didn't want to continue dragging this particular thread off-topic. I don't see him attempting to "avoid being wrong", as you've previously asserted.
Where is this new thread to continue the "debate"? Oh, he didn't make one, and isn't even about to. How utterly surprising!
He comes in here stating things that clearly warrant further backing up, and does not follow through. So are you saying I should be the one making the new thread for calling him out on his bluff? Ain't gonna happen dude.
Actually, the invitation was for YOU to make a new thread.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by Ayulin
You omitted a statement in their post that could easily be looked at as an invitation to start a new thread to continue the debate.Bigdaddy simply stated he didn't want to continue dragging this particular thread off-topic. I don't see him attempting to "avoid being wrong", as you've previously asserted.
Where is this new thread to continue the "debate"? Oh, he didn't make one, and isn't even about to. How utterly surprising!
He comes in here stating things that clearly warrant further backing up, and does not follow through. So are you saying I should be the one making the new thread for calling him out on his bluff? Ain't gonna happen dude.
Actually, the invitation was for YOU to make a new thread.
If he wants to claim that eve is harder than xiv on an xiv board the burden is on him, dude. He's not going to back up the claims so I don't know why you guys keep replying.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
I'm not surprised you don't know, as you said the same thing.
To me that explains a lot.
Im not having problems selling the things Im crafting, but OP needs to look at what things, other than finished items he can craft.
I am however having issues with repeating the same dungeons over and over and over ad naseum for tomes. I am not happy with the grind being so repetitive.
I remember grinding AAs in EQ, possibly a grind one could say was never ending in as so much AAs didnt lose their appeal with new content, which items usually do as newer ones are introduced, and still I didnt find it boring. - Because the grind in those days took place in a social setting with time for chatting and laughs. - These days, the grind is basically speedruns, and people getting obnoxious if a little chat and fun adds to the time for running through the same old dungeon. - I dont get the appeal of that. I am bored with it.
So I dont think the game has so much appeal as I had hoped.
Also, I dont think its a good thing that one has to advertise the longevity of end game by stating how many months of tome grind (in the same dungeons or fates) people have to do to get the best gear. - Is it really something to emphasize as a good thing, that most players will have to do the same tome grind for 3+ months to get better gear. And why are we ok with that being endgame. - Yuk.
Good post OP, pretty much sums up most of the new generation of MMORPG's.
and to all the people saying of course there is players who sink 6 hours a day into a game and finish it fast... well when half the population does that, and the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,
and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.
and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.
and ones where craftings is sparse, and niche ( Asheron's Call ), where most players don't train Lockpick, because you have limited amount of skill credits, but those who do get called on do Carve keys in the Market, go on quests with others to unlock doors, ect and AC had a lot of Niche craftings, where it was useful from Start of the game, all the way through, and alot of the players might forgoe a craft for more defensive or offensive skills, or magics, but if you had a craft, you generally we're needed.
Like in AC, if you had armor tinkering, weapon tinkers skills, magic items tinkering, and each one of those is absolutely needed, one needed to apply Steel to there armor to raise it's Armor level, or Iron to weapons to raise damage, or Brass to weapons to raise % melee defense. Magic tink for imbueing them with special properties. There was a plethora of different combinations, and each could be uniquely applied to situations through out the game depending on your play style.
Lol speak for yourself. I don't see the majority of people finishing all the content anytime soon. The game is packed with stuff to do but also lets you skip most of it instead of forcing it down your throat.
I believe you are incorrect, it's just like Diablo 2, eventually you are going to get burned out on doings the lame things inbetween 1-50, and think you need to powerlevel to max level, with Baal runs, or Cow runs, whatever.
But sadly with this game, both the path and the end are quite boring and lack depth.
Hardcores are already on Bahamut Coil #4-#5. Some of those very same endgame free companies already had everything on farm status by week 2 or 3. For groups like that the only thing challenging are the later stages of that instance/dungeon. For semi-hardcore/mid-core players the only challenging at this point is Titan's arena and Bahamut's coil. Casuals "probably" will never get to Bahamut's Coil (without the help of newly introduced higher ilvl items) so chances are their most difficult encounter will most likely be Titan's arena.
This is very typical of almost every single themepark MMO that has released in the past 5 years or so. You usually have 1-2 zones/dungeons/instances that are challenging with the rest being... well "almost" handed to you. What do you consider challenging in the game? Please don't be like Murugan and others who said that the low level dungeons were very challenging or that the Ifrit fight is challenging. And why would he deserve anything in "missing out" this challenge?
Either willful ignorance or realizing too late and are just trying to make some of that money back before making the switch (most likely what will happen to TESO) or eventually shut down (like the announcement of Warhammer Online this week). It doesn't take a crystal ball or anything of the sort to see what the trend has been in the past 5 years and how future games will most likely fall into the same vicious cycle. At this point in time there are only 10 MMORPGs that operate exclusively using the P2P business model out of the 600 online titles. 7 of those games were released prior to 2005. Only 3 games released post 2005 use the P2P model as their sole source of revenue.
DarkFall 2009
The Hammers End 2013
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 2013
EDIT: Forgot to add the link.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5965024#5965024
The rest of the games that released using the P2P business model after 2005? They either shut down, went F2P or went F2P and P2W. In almost every case server merges ended up being quite severe. I've talked about half a dozen points in the past that companies continue to make (the same mistakes over and over again), but this whole idea of streamlining these games to the point of making them so casual/single-duo player-minded/lack of content is usually one of the top three reasons as to why so many people leave these games around the 3-6 month mark.
I agree wholeheartedly. The picture to me isn't just about FFXIV though. It is symbolic of "almost" every themepark MMORPG released in the past 5 years. Don't get me wrong, each of these heavily casualised generic themepark MMO do offer one or two and in some extreme rare instances three difficult/challenging arenas/zones/dungeons/bosses within the first 6 months of release. But after that? Hmm...
Check out this AC ( described the game above and here ) Combat video, how you like dodging arrows, dodging spells, jumping to perch, hiding behind trees, ect?
video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rhLdzvLtemQ
That only explains one thing (not a lot) that you are trying to tell us that FFXIV is more challenging than EVE? since you are being so vague, it is a safe guess to make. And if that is true..i would like to have whatever you are smoking.
EvE is a spreadsheet game where fights are decided before they happen. There is next to no skill involved in PvP. People only PvP with you if they know they will win / have the better ship/equipment, If they don't they will run. Big fights are just blobs where nothing really matters and all you hope is that you survive long enough to get a few shots off.
Crafting, you basically just need to pay for a few years waiting to get your skills up, drop a tower to produce and again, pay your monthly while you wait for the items to complete. It's boring like nothing else!
Someone was really playing EVE all wrong. But not a conversation for this thread.
Regarding the OP, this game will go like most, after the rush dies down the fans will stick around for many years to come and life will go on.
Funny how that works.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
lol.... not even surprised by the response.
I don't want to drag this topic anymore off topic because this is about FFXIV's staying power. And as far as that is concerned. Free month isn't over yet. But don't be surprised if SE announces server merges in few months.
Another thought I wanted to share about this game pertains to the endgame, and the "challenge" associated with it.
Many people have been defending the incredible difficulty of the endgame. However, the difficulty isn't actually the problem. The problem is the limited number of alternatives to gearing up for these fights. A perfect example if when you fight HM Ifrit.
The first time you fight Ifrit, it's semi-daunting. You don't know the moves, the timings, the order he's going to do things, the rotation on his glyphs, etc. However, once you run the fight 2-3 times, it gets to the point where you're legitimately farming Ifrit. You need Ifrit's weapon to keep progressing, period.
An easy way to get geared for Ifrit is to run Amdapor Keep. Do a few runs a week and you'll get an ilvl 70 gear piece. After acquiring just 1-2, complimented with Ifrit's weapon, you go to Garuda. If your party fails the gear-check, you lose. Even if you know the fight, you lose because your stats aren't in order.
Titan is more of the same, but he's MUCH more restrictive. Essentially, if you aren't wearing 100% top tier gear, the fight is nearly impossible. Advanced parties can carry 1 or possibly even 2 undergeared players, but even then they still need to know the fight.
The biggest challenge of the game is not so much the fights themselves, but the stringent and frequent gear checks that have limited options and alternatives available. Run Titan, though, with Garuda's weapon and full Darklight 2 gear; it's a cakewalk. Titan is *substantially* easier. That's kind of the problem with the entire end-game philosophy. You have to be excited and willing to grind so that you can.... keep grinding the same few places for miniscule gear gains. Despite being able to kill HM Ifrit with ease, I had to kill him nearly 35 times before I got my bow. Despite the ease of running Amdapor Keep, you have to run it nearly 20+ times to get geared up for endgame. However, AK isn't even hard if you're wearing level 45 AF gear. It's the simple repetition of going through the motions. While, like with most dungeons, you might die a few times on your first try, after that, you're just going through the motions, freely farming tomes.
While I realize that any game is easier when you know the fights and such (Dark Souls, anyone?) there's a false sense of difficulty in this game. Much like Dark Souls, things are only mildly challenging the first time, and after that, it's just timesinking for gear. I really do believe that as more and more of you hit 50, you'll see exactly how tedious it is. There's also a couple reasons for this.
1) There's no unique stats to gear at all. All archer/bard gear is the same, all tank gear is the same, all caster gear is the same; the only difference is a few + points on the pre-existing stats.
2) There's no "speccing" because of how basic the attribute system is. Since attributes are essentially dump stats, and all gear is identical, all players play and exp exactly the same, run dungeons the same, etc.
3) Because of this, all end-game fights essentially are carbon-copies. There's no real variety to the fights because there's no real variety to gear or characters.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
You can basically say the same thing about every single MMORPG in existence, there has never been an MMORPG that was challenging, they were all just time consuming, you put in time, you get the gear, you get strong enough to beat any content the game offers? What's new?
It's been a month since release and the game still hasn't been completely beaten. Considering that is what the MMO hardcore folks do, beat stuff no matter the difficulty in a matter of days, I don't see what's not challenging about the game in its current iteration.
The dumb thing about this is the amount of nonsense regarding people's expectations when it comes to difficulty. The players who even take a proper try at beating the hardest content are not more than a tiny tiny group of players at best. They are not worth developing substantial content for, the only reason to even go this far is to be able to say that such encounters exist because MMO gamers are anal about the game having difficult content they will never get to experience.
Either way, what you say is completely true. This is very typical for a themepark MMO. I don't say this is typical for a video game, because in general video games don't even go this far to please the hardcore crowd with challenging gameplay.
At the end of the day I am only comparing this game's difficulty to the difficulty of games out there, as this product is one of them. I am not comparing the game's difficulty to someone's hyper-inflated and/or flawed way of thinking of difficulty in an MMO, as that is biased and thus can be ignored. And in the comparison I have made the game comes off as challenging from start to finish. Compare the low level dungeons to low level dungeons of other games, and it is challenging. Compare the hardest encounters to hardest encounters of other games, and as nobody has even beaten the game yet it pretty much comes off as challenging.
The people at MMORPG.com always define difficulty through what they consider difficult, or what the top level players consider difficult - therefore completely subjective and biased beyond hope. I hope that doesn't apply to you as in that case I fear I have wasted a precious moment of my time.
Your statement " You need Ifrit's weapon to keep progressing, period." is already factually wrong given that you could buy a HQ i70 weapon as well to progress.
But crafting is useless?
I don't even understand how people can go "OMFG I played for 200 hours and now there's nothing else to do, this game has a shitty amount of content!" You just got 200 hours worth of a game from a $30 game, and maybe if you did something else other than play video games you would still have things to do. I for one am nearing the end of the first month with still plenty to do and probably won't run out of anything to do because they will be adding a lot of content next patches.
Can't say I disagree with most of what the OP wrote, except for the post 50 content since I haven't gotten there yet. Crafting does seem kind of pointless esp. with the ability to have one character be all classes and jobs. I just saved my lower level gear to use when I leveled other classes. So, while I absolutely love the class system (its by far my favourite part of the game) the lack of alts seems to be hurting the crafting market. FATES give way too much xp for the amount of effort given. Usually its just a zerg and trivializes any sort of difficulty there is. This changes when there's less people around but right now FATE grinding is the fastest way to level.
As for the duty finder, it is MUCH easier to que as a tank (no healer for me so I can't say) than it is as dps. One reason for this, apart from most people being a dps class, is the group size. Its only 4, 2 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank. If it was 5 or 6 you can add more dps and alleviate some of the wait time. The dungeons would have to be re-tuned a bit but shouldn't be too hard. Just have more mobs or give them more HPs.
The gold (gil, whatever) sellers in this game are the worst I have ever seen, even with all the f2p games I've tried over the years. The chat system is stupid. You can't just right click on someone's name and hit ignore like you can in almost every other MMO. You have to manually type the name in order to ignore/blacklist them. Dumb and dumb.
I actually enjoy the game and it is pretty fun. They did a real nice job of un-fubaring the game from its former state and they should get some credit for doing that. Usually when an MMO falls on its face out of the starting blocks its game over. However, like the OP, I don't know if I'll be subbing past the first month. There might be just too much to overlook and I don't have much faith in SE ability to address it.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You omitted a statement in their post that could easily be looked at as an invitation to start a new thread to continue the debate.
Bigdaddy simply stated he didn't want to continue dragging this particular thread off-topic. I don't see him attempting to "avoid being wrong", as you've previously asserted.
Where is this new thread to continue the "debate"? Oh, he didn't make one, and isn't even about to. How utterly surprising!
He comes in here stating things that clearly warrant further backing up, and does not follow through. So are you saying I should be the one making the new thread for calling him out on his bluff? Ain't gonna happen dude.
Actually, the invitation was for YOU to make a new thread.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Where is this new thread to continue the "debate"? Oh, he didn't make one, and isn't even about to. How utterly surprising!
He comes in here stating things that clearly warrant further backing up, and does not follow through. So are you saying I should be the one making the new thread for calling him out on his bluff? Ain't gonna happen dude.
Actually, the invitation was for YOU to make a new thread.
If he wants to claim that eve is harder than xiv on an xiv board the burden is on him, dude.He's not going to back up the claims so I don't know why you guys keep replying.