Another Star Wars MMORPG won't happen as long as SW:TOR is up and running.
Same for Lord of the Rings... I'd love a more sandboxish LoTR game, closer to the original lore, but that won't happen either.
Actually, I want to add something to this...
What is needed for such thing to happen is a successful sandbox MMORPG. Maybe Archeage, maybe EQNext, maybe another. Then we will see other companies try the sandbox model with a major franchise again.
Because game limitations. You can not simply put everything in a game. Have you thought about this at all?
If you are gonna randomly warp anywhere in space you need a full detailed galaxy for it. Ever seen X series? It only has space exploration and has almost non-existant textures and graphics and yet the game is over 8GB just for the space design. Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous will be fully space games with modern textures and then you will see how much big the games can get just in Space design.
Want full planets with complete design? Ever though about the workforce required to design them? WoW, a 10 year old game with a huge world and again outdated graphics has a 25+GB size just one for one big region. Most modern MMOs with big worlds go above 35GB. And it takes the devs years to design just one world. How do you think they will do a minimum of 10 worlds? Also, what about the infrastructure required to connect the happenings on multiple worlds seeing you want a full sandbox?
Most of the people here engage in wishful thinking not realising the practical possibility of it at all.
It just can not be done in today's standards.
You would be the first employee I would fire. It's possible. Employees such as you would hinder innovation.
There is difference between innovation and Delusion.
If it's possible, open up your own studio and go for it. I won't even join you lest i hinder up the "Innovation" in your studio.
Imagine reading about "Eve" on paper. You would think that wasn't possible, yet here we have it.
Originally posted by Acornia I remember 100 vs 100 pvp battles in the old SWG game, something I have not seen in any games since. Even with all of its faults of the old SWG game, it had many things that was done better than todays games.
Yes, NSA used Atria computers to help put us on the moon, so there is hope that there may one day be a SWG type game out there that we will love to play.
Planetside 1 has 100 vs 100 and planetside 2 has 1K vs 1k, Lineage 2 castle sieges I saw 100 vs 100 fights quite often. There may be more examples I can't think of them right now.
The original SWG was a sand box with theme parks thrown in. It was a hybrid. It has space, you could fly all day if you wanted, it had PvP in space, and it had big open worlds you could get lost on if you wanted.
SWG: JTL had about everything you describe, all it really needed was decent management and development which it did not have. At this point, it would need a graphic and engine update, but the game itself would still be fun and I believe it would bring in more numbers now than it did originally.
Most of the people posting here saying that is impossible are out of their minds, it has been done. It had open space, it had wide open worlds to explore, it had theme parks (Jabba's palace, the imp theme park etc) it had massive PvP battles, it had player built cities, it had a intricate crafting system. And you know what happened? People cried. Yes, they cried on the forums to the Devs (it was also the first game to have forums dedicated to the game). The complaints? It's to hard, I want to be able to start as a Jedi, it's to hard to learn everything, I can't find quests, etc etc.
And SOE listened, and the CU happened...then the NGE happened, and that was the beginning of the end. SOE dumbed it down to make it accessible to everyone, and killed the game. Yes, it went on for a few more years but it is gone now.
The 'I need my hand held' crowd won there.
TL:DR - It will take, at this point, a indy developer with a huge pot of cash to make the game you want and then it will still be a small niche game, the 'I need my hand held's' far out number the people that enjoy a challenge. And the people that say it are correct, no one is going to throw money at something and expect no return. Sad but true.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.
I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .
Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.
Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.
The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.
Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.
So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.
And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.
People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?
And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.
The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.
I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .
Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.
Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.
The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.
Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.
So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.
And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.
People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?
And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.
The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
None of the games you stated are even in the league of Asheron's Call or pre patch SWG/EQ1.
and Portal is single player, and is only intellectual on a minimum level, it's like a rubix cube, once you know how it works it's very easy to understand.
The only thing that makes Witcher series is good is that the player base has been able to expand on them with Mods, like Fallouts and Oblivions, these games are absolute crap without 10000 hours of unofficial modders work.
and your "why are we not all playing 16-bit games', graphics have nothing to do with it, a 16-bit game can be more challenging and more content, and more depth then any new game out there,
pretty much I don't know why I am responding to you, as your arguments are invalid and you seem like a troll without a cause, just bashing on every person you see.
PS thinking out side of the box is the number one lead to innovation, by you setting standards for what is around you, equals a greater outcome of a stagnant world.
Because game limitations. You can not simply put everything in a game. Have you thought about this at all?
If you are gonna randomly warp anywhere in space you need a full detailed galaxy for it. Ever seen X series? It only has space exploration and has almost non-existant textures and graphics and yet the game is over 8GB just for the space design. Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous will be fully space games with modern textures and then you will see how much big the games can get just in Space design.
Want full planets with complete design? Ever though about the workforce required to design them? WoW, a 10 year old game with a huge world and again outdated graphics has a 25+GB size just one for one big region. Most modern MMOs with big worlds go above 35GB. And it takes the devs years to design just one world. How do you think they will do a minimum of 10 worlds? Also, what about the infrastructure required to connect the happenings on multiple worlds seeing you want a full sandbox?
Most of the people here engage in wishful thinking not realising the practical possibility of it at all.
It just can not be done in today's standards.
You would be the first employee I would fire. It's possible. Employees such as you would hinder innovation.
There is difference between innovation and Delusion.
If it's possible, open up your own studio and go for it. I won't even join you lest i hinder up the "Innovation" in your studio.
Imagine reading about "Eve" on paper. You would think that wasn't possible, yet here we have it.
EVE is not what the OP wants, the concept of EVE itself is ridiculously simple. Just build a sandbox and leave some people in it to do what they want. X series has done for years what EVE does on a multiplayer scale. EVE as a space sim alone racks up 30+GB on your disk and to account for the space fights, the game servers undergo time dilation.
What the OP wants is EVE along with like 10 planets of WoW size all influencing each other since he wants a sandbox which is not technologically possible at this point.
Originally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.
And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.
People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?
And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.
The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.
You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
None of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated.
I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star .
Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe.
Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.
The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.
Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.
So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.
And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.
People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?
And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.
The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
None of the games you stated are even in the league of Asheron's Call or pre patch SWG/EQ1.
and Portal is single player, and is only intellectual on a minimum level, it's like a rubix cube, once you know how it works it's very easy to understand.
The only thing that makes Witcher series is good is that the player base has been able to expand on them with Mods, like Fallouts and Oblivions, these games are absolute crap without 10000 hours of unofficial modders work.
Keep thinking like that if it stokes your ego that much.
And saying Portal is like a Rubix cube lol? Rubix code have an algorithm, there is none for the game. You have to think to go through it, study your environments to get through it.
Witcher was an absolute beast without any mods, witcher mods aren't even that popular when compared to Skyrim and Fallout.
Originally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.
And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.
People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?
And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.
The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.
You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.
If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
Originally posted by skyline385 Originally posted by actionreactionOriginally posted by skyline385Originally posted by actionreactionOriginally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.None of the games you stated are even in the league of Asheron's Call or pre patch SWG/EQ1.and Portal is single player, and is only intellectual on a minimum level, it's like a rubix cube, once you know how it works it's very easy to understand.The only thing that makes Witcher series is good is that the player base has been able to expand on them with Mods, like Fallouts and Oblivions, these games are absolute crap without 10000 hours of unofficial modders work.Keep thinking like that if it stokes your ego that much.
And saying Portal is like a Rubix cube lol? Rubix code have an algorithm, there is none for the game. You have to think to go through it, study your environments to get through it.
Witcher was an absolute beast without any mods, witcher mods aren't even that popular when compared to Skyrim and Fallout.
Not sure where you get your 'facts' from but what he is describing has been done, and can be done. You are going on about single players games, this is an MMO site and an MMO discussion.
With new TB hard drives, and graphics cards the game he wants is possible, hell it was possible 10 or more years ago. I know this, because SWG had all the things he mentioned. Where you are coming from I have no idea. Right now PS2 can support 1K vs 1k vs 1K fights, yeah three factions of 1K people each going at it, with vehicles, infantry and aircraft. So tell me again, how it isn't possible to make what he is describing?
As far as hard mode, you are dead wrong there. This is why the hard games died or became niche games, the vast majority can't handle or don't want to handle finding their own way in a giant virtual world.
TL:DR - You are wrong, on all accounts.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by skyline385 Originally posted by HatefullOriginally posted by skyline385Originally posted by actionreactionOriginally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode. I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.
If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.
6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.
If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.
6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
You play EVE for the guided quests lol? Ok, buddy that shows your level in EVE.
And no 6 months in Dota? Who do you play with? Bots or the lowest-level learners/beginners from normal bracket matchmaking? This shows your level in Dota 2 as well.
Originally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.
If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.
6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
Originally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.
If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.
6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?
That's what i said lol. Apparently, he is playing EVE for the guided PvE quests and then he comes to talk about wanting extreme difficulty games.
I am almost sure by his reply that he has no idea about both of those games and is trying to base his opinions on random stuff he has heard.
Originally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?
[mod edit]
Compared to SWG and EQ 1, yes Eve does a bit of hand holding with it's small PvE side. Now I completely understand (because I played eve for a couple years) that it ramps up and things get far more difficult when you start in on all the other aspects of the game but you still know where to go, and your nav will tell you how to get there for all your PvE missions.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by RogueTroopaNone of this old republic nonsense. Huge numbers would welcome a gorgeous looking New Republic Star Wars Universe set in the era we truly want. Total sandbox. Yes we had galaxies but that's dated. I want to sit in the Cantina Bar at Mose Eisley deciding on my course of travel to another planet, I want to jump to light speed being chased down by a star destroyer, I want to visit Hoth and set up my dwellings, I want to visit Alderan and see the Jawas, I want to stow away on a cargo ship and infiltrate the Death Star . Become a rebel or enlist in the empire and find your own destiny. Explore a massive Star Wars universe. Why the hell haven't we got one???????????
It's not because of limitations, I know other posters will tell you this, the number one reason is that most "consumers" do not like hard or in depth games.The reason the EQ2/WoW model works so well is because most people are little bawing sheep, and anything that makes them think get's thrown out of the door instantly compared to something that encourages and facilitates a learning experience.Look it up under social experiments, 7 million MMORPG consumers would rather have the hand held then play something like AC/Post patch SWG/Post patch EQ1, which have a player base in the thousands.So for every 1 person that players an easy game, .0001 people choose to play hard. in the end, MONEY TALKS.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?
[mod edit]
Compared to SWG and EQ 1, yes Eve does a bit of hand holding with it's small PvE side. Now I completely understand (because I played eve for a couple years) that it ramps up and things get far more difficult when you start in on all the other aspects of the game but you still know where to go, and your nav will tell you how to get there for all your PvE missions.
lol who even does PvE missions in EVE anyways? You have no idea about EVE, you hearing me there? Did you even play the game for more than an hour? And the only thing the Nav does is show you the optimum route to a system. If you think the absence of that makes you an elitist hardcore player, then buddy i got news for you. That's not what difficulty means ok?
You can't sell the license to something for however many years then turn around and sell it again before the terms are up. EA has the rights to starwars mmos and Disney doesn't have any interest in making them. They'll make more on one movie than they'll ever make on an mmo.
I would agree with this a thousand times. And you didn't even mention costs of liscensing. Even if you *could* sell the liscense, it is so massively expensive to buy into the SW IP. I have a good friend who is an executive in a high end publishing house. They had to sell about a million dollars in SW merchandise before they even saw their first dollar come back to them. Granted, this was under Lucas, and the environment has changed a bit, but still, not a cheap IP to buy into.
And with MMORPGs sort of on the ropes right now, who the hell is going to invest that much into a genre that is percieved by many to be sinking.
SWG 2, as much as I would love to see it, is not going to happen anytime soon, and probably not ever.
I know that it seems to many that a sandbox must allow for nearly unlimited exploration but I think a sandbox should simply allow someone to create their own 'content' within a given framework of internal rules. Create your own factions, economy, architecture and establish your own lore. Creating your own 'Named'/famous people through character interactions. The universe does not need to be created in total in order to give a legitimate base for player exploration and input.
All of this can be done within the confines of one big city. Take Seattle in the Shadowrun universe for example. With this established lore and core rules as a base you could create a living, breathing, detailed city and let the players shape the 'world'. A huge city can be more than enough playground if the ruleset allows for internal changes such as player created Arcologies, etc.
Over time you can expand the city or allow for other cities to spring up as needed without creating a lifeless procedurally generated universe.
The Star Wars IP is not a good basis for an MMORPG. Both MMORPGs that have been based on this IP have had serious flaws with regard to the Jedi. They are super heroes. They should be OP. So, everyone has to be a Jedi or nobody can be a Jedi. If you play mix and match where non-Jedi can compete with Jedi, then you really don't have Jedi.
That is true. Star Wars fits perfectly for a single player experience since it is always about hero saving the universe. The minute a second "chosen one" appears on the screen, and then the next, and then the next one it starts to break immersion. If anything, they should never allow players to be a jedi, but then game is going even more niche, since not many people want to be anything else but hero.
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Your point is still invalid because if you read David Braben's paper and notes he DID NOT modelled that whole universe back in Frontier:Elite. A lot of it was calculated.
You miss the point. It doesn't matter if some David wrote something in his papers, because the point is OP WANTS everything to be rendered. He wants to sit in a cantina, he said it himself, he wants a game on a space exploration scale, but with everything rendered to the point player can enter buildings.
Originally posted by TheRealBanango this nonsense we don't know about...because that's the thing, we don't know.
Designing an mmo is complex, requires a big team, and many hours, yes, but should that stop people from making it?
We do know how long it takes to create current mmorpgs, since that is no secret, so you don't have to be developer, or even good at math to figure how long it would take to make a game that requires triple the resources or more...
No one will make a game for 20 years with a risk it will fail, it is not reasonable, if you can make few smaller games in the same amount of time. More chances that one of those small games will be successful, than to waste billions on one game, and get owned by players that are never satisfied and always find a reason to complain.
Originally posted by Dauzqul
Originally posted by skyline385
Because game limitations. You can not simply put everything in a game. Have you thought about this at all?
You would be the first employee I would fire. It's possible. Employees such as you would hinder innovation.
So you would fire the only competent guy in your company that actually knows how the industry works and gives you reasonable arguments against your irrational ideas, and would keep the big dreamers that obviously have no idea how to pull it off, but "you can do anything you want if you believe in it". Good for the competent guy.. at least he can find a company now that wont go down next year...
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter Originally posted by RogueTroopaThey said it was impossible to put a man on the moon. They said it was impossible to do the 4 min mile.
It's never been proven that man actually landed on the moon.
I suppose the reflectors on the moon that are uniform enough to bounce a laser off of and get a coherent beam of light back on Earth were placed on the moon by aliens?
There are limitations, and trying to bypass them with happy thoughts is dumb. It's one thing for people who are completely ignorant of something to have doubts about it. Those people will have doubts about everything. It's something else entirely when people who are both knowledgeable and experienced in an industry acknowledge that there are limitations in trying to get something done.
The floor of the games industry is littered with companies that thought they could push past obvious limitations with nothing but happy thoughts and optimism.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Actually, I want to add something to this...
What is needed for such thing to happen is a successful sandbox MMORPG. Maybe Archeage, maybe EQNext, maybe another. Then we will see other companies try the sandbox model with a major franchise again.
My computer is better than yours.
Imagine reading about "Eve" on paper. You would think that wasn't possible, yet here we have it.
Planetside 1 has 100 vs 100 and planetside 2 has 1K vs 1k, Lineage 2 castle sieges I saw 100 vs 100 fights quite often. There may be more examples I can't think of them right now.
The original SWG was a sand box with theme parks thrown in. It was a hybrid. It has space, you could fly all day if you wanted, it had PvP in space, and it had big open worlds you could get lost on if you wanted.
SWG: JTL had about everything you describe, all it really needed was decent management and development which it did not have. At this point, it would need a graphic and engine update, but the game itself would still be fun and I believe it would bring in more numbers now than it did originally.
Most of the people posting here saying that is impossible are out of their minds, it has been done. It had open space, it had wide open worlds to explore, it had theme parks (Jabba's palace, the imp theme park etc) it had massive PvP battles, it had player built cities, it had a intricate crafting system. And you know what happened? People cried. Yes, they cried on the forums to the Devs (it was also the first game to have forums dedicated to the game). The complaints? It's to hard, I want to be able to start as a Jedi, it's to hard to learn everything, I can't find quests, etc etc.
And SOE listened, and the CU happened...then the NGE happened, and that was the beginning of the end. SOE dumbed it down to make it accessible to everyone, and killed the game. Yes, it went on for a few more years but it is gone now.
The 'I need my hand held' crowd won there.
TL:DR - It will take, at this point, a indy developer with a huge pot of cash to make the game you want and then it will still be a small niche game, the 'I need my hand held's' far out number the people that enjoy a challenge. And the people that say it are correct, no one is going to throw money at something and expect no return. Sad but true.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters.
And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait.
People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right?
And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal.
The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
None of the games you stated are even in the league of Asheron's Call or pre patch SWG/EQ1.
and Portal is single player, and is only intellectual on a minimum level, it's like a rubix cube, once you know how it works it's very easy to understand.
The only thing that makes Witcher series is good is that the player base has been able to expand on them with Mods, like Fallouts and Oblivions, these games are absolute crap without 10000 hours of unofficial modders work.
and your "why are we not all playing 16-bit games', graphics have nothing to do with it, a 16-bit game can be more challenging and more content, and more depth then any new game out there,
pretty much I don't know why I am responding to you, as your arguments are invalid and you seem like a troll without a cause, just bashing on every person you see.
PS thinking out side of the box is the number one lead to innovation, by you setting standards for what is around you, equals a greater outcome of a stagnant world.
EVE is not what the OP wants, the concept of EVE itself is ridiculously simple. Just build a sandbox and leave some people in it to do what they want. X series has done for years what EVE does on a multiplayer scale. EVE as a space sim alone racks up 30+GB on your disk and to account for the space fights, the game servers undergo time dilation.
What the OP wants is EVE along with like 10 planets of WoW size all influencing each other since he wants a sandbox which is not technologically possible at this point.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players.
You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Keep thinking like that if it stokes your ego that much.
And saying Portal is like a Rubix cube lol? Rubix code have an algorithm, there is none for the game. You have to think to go through it, study your environments to get through it.
Witcher was an absolute beast without any mods, witcher mods aren't even that popular when compared to Skyrim and Fallout.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.
If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
This should have been the end of this thread.
There just isn't a big enough crowd for such a game, believe it or not, to cover the insane licensing fees.
Repopulation seems your next best bet.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters. And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
None of the games you stated are even in the league of Asheron's Call or pre patch SWG/EQ1. and Portal is single player, and is only intellectual on a minimum level, it's like a rubix cube, once you know how it works it's very easy to understand. The only thing that makes Witcher series is good is that the player base has been able to expand on them with Mods, like Fallouts and Oblivions, these games are absolute crap without 10000 hours of unofficial modders work.
Keep thinking like that if it stokes your ego that much.
And saying Portal is like a Rubix cube lol? Rubix code have an algorithm, there is none for the game. You have to think to go through it, study your environments to get through it.
Witcher was an absolute beast without any mods, witcher mods aren't even that popular when compared to Skyrim and Fallout.
Not sure where you get your 'facts' from but what he is describing has been done, and can be done. You are going on about single players games, this is an MMO site and an MMO discussion.
With new TB hard drives, and graphics cards the game he wants is possible, hell it was possible 10 or more years ago. I know this, because SWG had all the things he mentioned. Where you are coming from I have no idea. Right now PS2 can support 1K vs 1k vs 1K fights, yeah three factions of 1K people each going at it, with vehicles, infantry and aircraft. So tell me again, how it isn't possible to make what he is describing?
As far as hard mode, you are dead wrong there. This is why the hard games died or became niche games, the vast majority can't handle or don't want to handle finding their own way in a giant virtual world.
TL:DR - You are wrong, on all accounts.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
When you debunk someone's claim who has given a lot of explanations for the claim, do so by giving the reason why you think so. Otherwise, you just become another one of the ranters. And people don't like hard modes in games? Oh, that would explain why end-games in most MMOs are so simple and people never complain about the lack of difficult content.......oh wait. People don't like hard games right? I guess Valve is faking the 500.000 people in Dota 2 who play it at any given time of the day. Either that or Dota doesn't require any intellectual thinking at all according to you, am i right? And in-depth games are not popular? So why are we all not playing 16 bit games then? Why were games like Witcher and Mass effect series such massive hits? People don't like Intellectual games? If only Valve had listened to you instead of creating a failure like Portal. The reason the games you mentioned were dropped had nothing to do with in-depth or difficulty.
Actually SWG was destroyed exactly because of haw hard it was to learn and play. DOTA 2 is PvP arena, not sure why you brought that up, but the 'challenge' there is made by other players. You are wrong, on all accounts. People want to know exactly where to go for the next quest, they want to be told which button to push and when. This is why EQ 1, and others games that do not hold your hand are 'niche' games. If they re-did EQ 1 today, right now just updated graphics, and engine etc it would STILL be niche because that game will kick your ass...off. Only a relatively few people really like a good hard challenge in video games. ERGO WoW is so massively popular still. It is freaking easy mode.
I brought Dota 2 up because of the level of difficulty, who cares whether it is brought up by AI or by other players.
If you played Dota 2 or any of the MOBA/ARTS, you would know the incredible amount of time it takes to learn those games. It's not like you pick and start. A minimum of 6 months is required to just get to a noob level. Same goes for EVE, learning it takes months and there is no AI "hand-held" path in it yet there are millions who play these games. Bottom line is if the game is that interesting and fun, people will go through hell to learn to play it.
I play DOTA 2 and eve. Eve tells you where to go for quests and how to get there. The game(s) we are talking about do not. Again, you don't really know what you are talking about. You make a lot of assumptions and act as if you are the only person to ever play multiple games. Well I can tell you I have played a good chunk of the market, and very few single player games, so my experience comes from MMO's yours obviously does not.
6 months to get good at DOTA 2? LMAO ok, I am done discussing with you now, that is a ridiculous statement and one I KNOW to be false. lol.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
There just isn't a big enough crowd for such a game, believe it or not, to cover the insane licensing fees.
Repopulation seems your next best bet.
Agreed, and yes I am looking forward to that game.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
You play EVE for the guided quests lol? Ok, buddy that shows your level in EVE.
And no 6 months in Dota? Who do you play with? Bots or the lowest-level learners/beginners from normal bracket matchmaking? This shows your level in Dota 2 as well.
Hang on. Are you saying EvE is holding your hand?
That's what i said lol. Apparently, he is playing EVE for the guided PvE quests and then he comes to talk about wanting extreme difficulty games.
I am almost sure by his reply that he has no idea about both of those games and is trying to base his opinions on random stuff he has heard.
wasnt swg profitable till the end?
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Compared to SWG and EQ 1, yes Eve does a bit of hand holding with it's small PvE side. Now I completely understand (because I played eve for a couple years) that it ramps up and things get far more difficult when you start in on all the other aspects of the game but you still know where to go, and your nav will tell you how to get there for all your PvE missions.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
It's never been proven that man actually landed on the moon.
lol who even does PvE missions in EVE anyways? You have no idea about EVE, you hearing me there? Did you even play the game for more than an hour? And the only thing the Nav does is show you the optimum route to a system. If you think the absence of that makes you an elitist hardcore player, then buddy i got news for you. That's not what difficulty means ok?
[mod edit]
I would agree with this a thousand times. And you didn't even mention costs of liscensing. Even if you *could* sell the liscense, it is so massively expensive to buy into the SW IP. I have a good friend who is an executive in a high end publishing house. They had to sell about a million dollars in SW merchandise before they even saw their first dollar come back to them. Granted, this was under Lucas, and the environment has changed a bit, but still, not a cheap IP to buy into.
And with MMORPGs sort of on the ropes right now, who the hell is going to invest that much into a genre that is percieved by many to be sinking.
SWG 2, as much as I would love to see it, is not going to happen anytime soon, and probably not ever.
I know that it seems to many that a sandbox must allow for nearly unlimited exploration but I think a sandbox should simply allow someone to create their own 'content' within a given framework of internal rules. Create your own factions, economy, architecture and establish your own lore. Creating your own 'Named'/famous people through character interactions. The universe does not need to be created in total in order to give a legitimate base for player exploration and input.
All of this can be done within the confines of one big city. Take Seattle in the Shadowrun universe for example. With this established lore and core rules as a base you could create a living, breathing, detailed city and let the players shape the 'world'. A huge city can be more than enough playground if the ruleset allows for internal changes such as player created Arcologies, etc.
Over time you can expand the city or allow for other cities to spring up as needed without creating a lifeless procedurally generated universe.
That is true. Star Wars fits perfectly for a single player experience since it is always about hero saving the universe. The minute a second "chosen one" appears on the screen, and then the next, and then the next one it starts to break immersion. If anything, they should never allow players to be a jedi, but then game is going even more niche, since not many people want to be anything else but hero.
You miss the point. It doesn't matter if some David wrote something in his papers, because the point is OP WANTS everything to be rendered. He wants to sit in a cantina, he said it himself, he wants a game on a space exploration scale, but with everything rendered to the point player can enter buildings.We do know how long it takes to create current mmorpgs, since that is no secret, so you don't have to be developer, or even good at math to figure how long it would take to make a game that requires triple the resources or more...
No one will make a game for 20 years with a risk it will fail, it is not reasonable, if you can make few smaller games in the same amount of time. More chances that one of those small games will be successful, than to waste billions on one game, and get owned by players that are never satisfied and always find a reason to complain.
So you would fire the only competent guy in your company that actually knows how the industry works and gives you reasonable arguments against your irrational ideas, and would keep the big dreamers that obviously have no idea how to pull it off, but "you can do anything you want if you believe in it". Good for the competent guy.. at least he can find a company now that wont go down next year...I suppose the reflectors on the moon that are uniform enough to bounce a laser off of and get a coherent beam of light back on Earth were placed on the moon by aliens?
There are limitations, and trying to bypass them with happy thoughts is dumb. It's one thing for people who are completely ignorant of something to have doubts about it. Those people will have doubts about everything. It's something else entirely when people who are both knowledgeable and experienced in an industry acknowledge that there are limitations in trying to get something done.
The floor of the games industry is littered with companies that thought they could push past obvious limitations with nothing but happy thoughts and optimism.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.