Originally posted by Jerek_ the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.
You hit the nail on the head.
I would not have guessed in my wildest nightmare that Bioware would ever be considered one of the worst developers in the gaming industry.
It was because of the JTL expansion, that SWG managed to survive the NGE and kept the servers up and runnig for so long until final shutdown.
It was hands Down one of the best expansions SOE ever made, Next to the Echoes of Faydwer expac for EQ2 later on that litterly resurrected that game.
If they had focussed on fixing the groundgame after JTL release (Galactic War, PVE ground content, etc), instead of the NGE.... ahh well. No point beating a dead horse. It's dead jim!
IT CAN NOT DIE!!! For the memory of the NGE will remind us of Trammel and every other shitty mmo change that was made to reach a mainstreamcrowd, a crowd mind you that does not even want to play mmo's to begin with!
Originally posted by Jerek_ the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.
swg was just one of the best mmo's that was ever released and all tor has been from the very start is like wow but worse. this won't help tor one bit. i went into the game last night and fleet chat was just filled with people who are upset over bioware doing something that they don't want.
Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.
Personally, since it is PvP only in a game whose one strength is the PvE questing I'm personally not super excited. The only thing that I find remotely interesting in this game are the class storylines, just about every other feature can be found to be implemented better in a different game, and likely one that treats their subscribers and F2P players a whole lot better. There is a lot of interesting things they could have done in space, instanced player limited arena style space PvP is somewhere around the bottom of that list.
swg was just one of the best mmo's that was ever released and all tor has been from the very start is like wow but worse. this won't help tor one bit. i went into the game last night and fleet chat was just filled with people who are upset over bioware doing something that they don't want.
Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.
No game was as popular at the time as the popular games today.
SWG was killed when it was compared, in numbers, to WOW's release, and LA looked at their very valuable IP license, looked at SOE, and said, "Convert our IP into something like *THAT* or we take our ball and go elsewhere." At least this is what the industry read between the lines of the NGE.
SOE got rid of everything that made the game interesting to gamers who played it at the time and tried to make it more generic, starting a grand tradition of what would soon become known as "the WOW clone." Overnight, without notice to the existing player base, a skill based system became a set class structure, and so on. The player relation nightmare was staggering, and worth B-school dissertations. Since, the "SWG vets" have been a running poison flame of PTSD in game forums -- AGAINST SOE certainly as well as LucasArts, if not primarily against SOE, over nearly a decade.
Smedley, in particular, sold out the game rather than informing the player base. The only question was, did he jump or was he pushed? Did LucasArts compel SOE to shaft the existing player base without consultation or foreknowledge, or was that his idea of damage control? Was there no room for negotiation, and so he figured, why take heat ahead of time, present it as a fait accompli?
The breach of trust was an example, regardless, that other game companies watched and learned from with a careful eye. No one wanted to take quite that level of backlash. It spread to SOE's other games, to their presences at gaming conventions, and to issues like their rootkit debacle years later, where heat they attracted from one issue would get spun up because of a small faction of activist gamers were still gleeful to put extra time into social media to make them look bad -- because SWG players were a strong community oriented group and many former players were heavily wired, community-oriented geeks.
They've been paying for it at Sony for nearly ten years in more ways than most of you realize.
The true sad part to all of this is the few tor players there are really think this will bring in more people.
It won't.
remember that tor doesn't have really anyone working on it. i've heard the team is smaller then the team working on swg at the end. people just don't like the game and it's history will keep people away from it. really this will be the last big update we'll see with tor as it's slowly sunset.
Originally posted by VikingGamer It is at least a step in the right direction. Getting off the rails and being able to free-flight dogfight is not bad for a first step. And this is EA after all, the masters of pushing things out early. It is not like they would have waited patiently for the full meal deal. The real question is, is it a first step or is it their solution. It will probably depend if it makes them any money.
I can't imagine they would be so dense as to not be working on the PvE version of this. They have done incredibly stupid things in the past though, so who knows.
Seeing, after the massive layoffs in spring 2012 and them being left With a skeletal crew, they needed almost a full year to release their first "MINI" expansion RotHC and then another 10 monhts or so till this "MINI" expansion.
That would put the PVE Version somewhere at early Autumn Next year. If they gonna work on it.
Ah yes you forgot to mention the multiple flashpoints since launch, the multiple ops since launch, the multiple daily areas, adding the legacy and continuing to improve on it, HK and treek, adding new PvP content all this and more in two years. Yes you must have forgot all that or your just being a hater hmm which one is it?
Dude. Sorry, but that was all stuff that was more or less ready, but just didn´t make it at launch, so they delivered it as Peace meal updates in that following year and Call it major content updates.
swg was just one of the best mmo's that was ever released and all tor has been from the very start is like wow but worse. this won't help tor one bit. i went into the game last night and fleet chat was just filled with people who are upset over bioware doing something that they don't want.
Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.
It was also not very well advertised... I didn't know anything about it until the year before it closed down.
swg was just one of the best mmo's that was ever released and all tor has been from the very start is like wow but worse. this won't help tor one bit. i went into the game last night and fleet chat was just filled with people who are upset over bioware doing something that they don't want.
Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.
It was also not very well advertised... I didn't know anything about it until the year before it closed down.
SOE is and always has been absolutely terrible With advertising.
Especially outside US borders. Never ever seen any advertisements for SOE games here in Europe.
If I weren´t playing SWG at the time and part of the online MMO community, I would have never found out about EverQuest 2 at the time lol.
Heck I would have not even known about SWG if a friend at the time didn´t tell me about it. Was too busy playing UT2003 at that time and creating maps in Unreal Editor lol.
Originally posted by jpnz Swtor will be forever scorned for not being Swg pre cu. What I don't get is why those people don't hate SOE for Swg.
LA mainly called the shots with SWG, and SWTOR is like an enhanced NGE. Both games were heavily influenced by LA, and Dallas Dickinson who worked on SWG and SWTOR.
LA is now no more
Yeah yet funny how somehow SWG was great all thanks to Raph Koster...
Anyway, at this rate SWTOR may become a decent MMO in about 2 or 3 years...maybe.
I believe it was Dallas Dickinson who dropped the 32 professions for the "iconic" 9 as reckoned "people do not want to play a moisture farmer" (or something like that). With the NGE they could not dumb down SWG enough, they had to keep the crafting professions in, and did not really touch space, to make it more like WOW. SWTOR is the NGE written from the ground up, making it easier to chop more out of the game.
Pretty pathetic. The most expensive MMO ever made, backed by 3 dev studios, and it can't even match what a small company made at the turn of the last century.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Pretty pathetic. The most expensive MMO ever made, backed by 3 dev studios, and it can't even match what a small company made at the turn of the last century.
In their defense. They hardly have anyone left in employment at the moment. So this is pretty much what they can come up With due to the little dev team they have left.
I get the comparisons to JTL. What is being added here seems so...........half-assed. Like someone at EA suddenly remembered they had some deadline for SWTOR that had been forgotten about until the last minute and someone phoned it in while on vacation. But the rest of SWG was a great MMO, certainly one of my favorites. But that didn't change the fact that it was on a collision course. People seem to forget just how many players were becoming Jedi towards the end. That upset a delicate balance that SWG required to continue to function. On the path it had been running, I doubt Pre-NGE SWG could have continued on as is for more than a year at that point.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Pretty pathetic. The most expensive MMO ever made, backed by 3 dev studios, and it can't even match what a small company made at the turn of the last century.
In their defense. They hardly have anyone left in employment at the moment. So this is pretty much what they can come up With due to the little dev team they have left.
True enough. They're running out of tricks to keep this going.
I had a very brief moment of excitement until I realized how limited this is and that it is PVP only. Since I have zero desire for PvP, I won't be touching this. Maybe at some point they will add some kind of PVE experience into this system and it might even approach the level of a disappointing, watered down Jump to Lightspeed. Right now, it is not even that for me.
Originally posted by Jerek_ the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.
AMEN! JTL was the reason why I played STWG soooo much. I pretty much paid for space cruising... XD I had ACE before I even leveled my ground that much, lol. Once I saw the space in game for SWTOR I was turned off right away. Hadn't even tried the Free version, played a trial was like eh WoW with lightsabers not bad, decent, space what? like playing Kingdom hearts space, screw that.... nope sorry. not even caring about this version either... -_- thanks for trying at least. XD
The true sad part to all of this is the few tor players there are really think this will bring in more people.
It won't.
remember that tor doesn't have really anyone working on it. i've heard the team is smaller then the team working on swg at the end. people just don't like the game and it's history will keep people away from it. really this will be the last big update we'll see with tor as it's slowly sunset.
You know? people was talking about the dead and fail of swtor for like 2 years, and guess what, it never happened and it wont happen anytime soon, you should learn to live with that. The game is doing good and the new space combat will bring even more people to the game, that is a fact.
The true sad part to all of this is the few tor players there are really think this will bring in more people.
It won't.
remember that tor doesn't have really anyone working on it. i've heard the team is smaller then the team working on swg at the end. people just don't like the game and it's history will keep people away from it. really this will be the last big update we'll see with tor as it's slowly sunset.
You know? people was talking about the dead and fail of swtor for like 2 years, and guess what, it never happened and it wont happen anytime soon, you should learn to live with that. The game is doing good and the new space combat will bring even more people to the game, that is a fact.
I think he's right though. What can we expect from EA? Well.............
Do you honestly think that both parties (EA and Disney) are really anxious to keep this thing going? Based on what we are seeing here (Bandaid expansions) I don't think EA does. WE know how Disney feels about LA titles. Why on Earth would this title be any different? Knowing this, EA is probably going to invest the absolute minimum into it for the duration of the contract.
You know I'll definitely check this out, I love space combat and pvp. SWTOR definitely missed the mark, but at least it's a step in somewhat the right direction.
Why so much hate towards SWTOR from people who dont even play the game and know nothing about it?. Wait, i know why, because is not SWG2. I remember SWG space combat, it was a grindfest where a single X-wing could bring down a Star destroyer.
Originally posted by hikaru77 Why so much hate towards SWTOR from people who dont even play the game and know nothing about it?. Wait, i know why, because is not SWG2. I remember SWG space combat, it was a grindfest where a single X-wing could bring down a Star destroyer.
Why does everything always boil down to "hate"? Maybe disappointment. Or maybe some are trying to set their expectations based on historical precedence. It's not like anyone can realistically say they expect great things from EA. Do you really believe EA will make the investments necessary to turn this title around, or will they most likely milk the title for what they can?
The true sad part to all of this is the few tor players there are really think this will bring in more people.
It won't.
remember that tor doesn't have really anyone working on it. i've heard the team is smaller then the team working on swg at the end. people just don't like the game and it's history will keep people away from it. really this will be the last big update we'll see with tor as it's slowly sunset.
You know? people was talking about the dead and fail of swtor for like 2 years, and guess what, it never happened and it wont happen anytime soon, you should learn to live with that. The game is doing good and the new space combat will bring even more people to the game, that is a fact.
I think he's right though. What can we expect from EA? Well.............
Do you honestly think that both parties (EA and Disney) are really anxious to keep this thing going? Based on what we are seeing here (Bandaid expansions) I don't think EA does. WE know how Disney feels about LA titles. Why on Earth would this title be any different? Knowing this, EA is probably going to invest the absolute minimum into it for the duration of the contract.
They have a 10 years contract with disney. SWTOR is one of the most profitable EA games, thanks to the Cartel Market, true, but it is. also BW is in charge of all the future MMO Develpment from EA. You can find all that info on google. And maybe you didnt notice it yet, but SWTOR is getting content updates every 8 weeks or so, and it was like that for the last year, you cant do that without money and support.
Comments
IT CAN NOT DIE!!! For the memory of the NGE will remind us of Trammel and every other shitty mmo change that was made to reach a mainstreamcrowd, a crowd mind you that does not even want to play mmo's to begin with!
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
+1
It..Burns..
Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.
Personally, since it is PvP only in a game whose one strength is the PvE questing I'm personally not super excited. The only thing that I find remotely interesting in this game are the class storylines, just about every other feature can be found to be implemented better in a different game, and likely one that treats their subscribers and F2P players a whole lot better. There is a lot of interesting things they could have done in space, instanced player limited arena style space PvP is somewhere around the bottom of that list.
No game was as popular at the time as the popular games today.
SWG was killed when it was compared, in numbers, to WOW's release, and LA looked at their very valuable IP license, looked at SOE, and said, "Convert our IP into something like *THAT* or we take our ball and go elsewhere." At least this is what the industry read between the lines of the NGE.
SOE got rid of everything that made the game interesting to gamers who played it at the time and tried to make it more generic, starting a grand tradition of what would soon become known as "the WOW clone." Overnight, without notice to the existing player base, a skill based system became a set class structure, and so on. The player relation nightmare was staggering, and worth B-school dissertations. Since, the "SWG vets" have been a running poison flame of PTSD in game forums -- AGAINST SOE certainly as well as LucasArts, if not primarily against SOE, over nearly a decade.
Smedley, in particular, sold out the game rather than informing the player base. The only question was, did he jump or was he pushed? Did LucasArts compel SOE to shaft the existing player base without consultation or foreknowledge, or was that his idea of damage control? Was there no room for negotiation, and so he figured, why take heat ahead of time, present it as a fait accompli?
The breach of trust was an example, regardless, that other game companies watched and learned from with a careful eye. No one wanted to take quite that level of backlash. It spread to SOE's other games, to their presences at gaming conventions, and to issues like their rootkit debacle years later, where heat they attracted from one issue would get spun up because of a small faction of activist gamers were still gleeful to put extra time into social media to make them look bad -- because SWG players were a strong community oriented group and many former players were heavily wired, community-oriented geeks.
They've been paying for it at Sony for nearly ten years in more ways than most of you realize.
The true sad part to all of this is the few tor players there are really think this will bring in more people.
It won't.
remember that tor doesn't have really anyone working on it. i've heard the team is smaller then the team working on swg at the end. people just don't like the game and it's history will keep people away from it. really this will be the last big update we'll see with tor as it's slowly sunset.
Dude. Sorry, but that was all stuff that was more or less ready, but just didn´t make it at launch, so they delivered it as Peace meal updates in that following year and Call it major content updates.
Come on now.
It was also not very well advertised... I didn't know anything about it until the year before it closed down.
Smile
SOE is and always has been absolutely terrible With advertising.
Especially outside US borders. Never ever seen any advertisements for SOE games here in Europe.
If I weren´t playing SWG at the time and part of the online MMO community, I would have never found out about EverQuest 2 at the time lol.
Heck I would have not even known about SWG if a friend at the time didn´t tell me about it. Was too busy playing UT2003 at that time and creating maps in Unreal Editor lol.
I believe it was Dallas Dickinson who dropped the 32 professions for the "iconic" 9 as reckoned "people do not want to play a moisture farmer" (or something like that). With the NGE they could not dumb down SWG enough, they had to keep the crafting professions in, and did not really touch space, to make it more like WOW. SWTOR is the NGE written from the ground up, making it easier to chop more out of the game.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
In their defense. They hardly have anyone left in employment at the moment. So this is pretty much what they can come up With due to the little dev team they have left.
True enough. They're running out of tricks to keep this going.
AMEN! JTL was the reason why I played STWG soooo much. I pretty much paid for space cruising... XD I had ACE before I even leveled my ground that much, lol. Once I saw the space in game for SWTOR I was turned off right away. Hadn't even tried the Free version, played a trial was like eh WoW with lightsabers not bad, decent, space what? like playing Kingdom hearts space, screw that.... nope sorry. not even caring about this version either... -_- thanks for trying at least. XD
You know? people was talking about the dead and fail of swtor for like 2 years, and guess what, it never happened and it wont happen anytime soon, you should learn to live with that. The game is doing good and the new space combat will bring even more people to the game, that is a fact.
I think he's right though. What can we expect from EA? Well.............
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/239/feature/7787
Do you honestly think that both parties (EA and Disney) are really anxious to keep this thing going? Based on what we are seeing here (Bandaid expansions) I don't think EA does. WE know how Disney feels about LA titles. Why on Earth would this title be any different? Knowing this, EA is probably going to invest the absolute minimum into it for the duration of the contract.
Why does everything always boil down to "hate"? Maybe disappointment. Or maybe some are trying to set their expectations based on historical precedence. It's not like anyone can realistically say they expect great things from EA. Do you really believe EA will make the investments necessary to turn this title around, or will they most likely milk the title for what they can?
They have a 10 years contract with disney. SWTOR is one of the most profitable EA games, thanks to the Cartel Market, true, but it is. also BW is in charge of all the future MMO Develpment from EA. You can find all that info on google. And maybe you didnt notice it yet, but SWTOR is getting content updates every 8 weeks or so, and it was like that for the last year, you cant do that without money and support.