If the average person who's spending money on this game is spending upwards of a $100 a month, what incentive does the developer have to create game play for people like me, who are never going to spend that kind of money?
If their ARPPU is $100, they are doing something amazingly right. That still, however, comes out to anywhere between $10 and $40 ARPU - more than likely on the lower end of that scale.
The mobile games aren't indicative of the MMOs, btw. At all. They are F2P but designed very differently. Their content is made to be playable in 5-15 minute segments. They are often designed around limiting the number of segments that can be used per day, much like many of the older Persistent Browser-based Games (PBBGs). They also often have tournaments or unlocks that create incentives that usually are juuuust a tiny bit past the free window in some form or another.
Mobile games are also very different in that they do not have a community, nor do they have people interested in forming a community. The interaction remains within each person's immediate real life social circle - be it at the office or in social media - whereas MMOs build their communities primarily from people's gaming circles. As a a result, the approach to retention is radically different between the two. The mobile games are also designed with a far shorter life expectancy. Getting three years of steady revenue out of your mobile game is a decent achievement, whereas an MMO is designed with the intent to be around far longer than that.
If someone has a deep-seated dislike for F2P MMOs because of how the model is used in F2P mobile games, their resentment is either without actual reason or at best simply misplaced.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If the average person who's spending money on this game is spending upwards of a $100 a month, what incentive does the developer have to create game play for people like me, who are never going to spend that kind of money?
If their ARPPU is $100, they are doing something amazingly right. That still, however, comes out to anywhere between $10 and $40 ARPU - more than likely on the lower end of that scale.
The mobile games aren't indicative of the MMOs, btw. At all. They are F2P but designed very differently. Their content is made to be playable in 5-15 minute segments. They are often designed around limiting the number of segments that can be used per day, much like many of the older Persistent Browser-based Games (PBBGs). They also often have tournaments or unlocks that create incentives that usually are juuuust a tiny bit past the free window in some form or another.
Mobile games are also very different in that they do not have a community, nor do they have people interested in forming a community. The interaction remains within each person's immediate real life social circle - be it at the office or in social media - whereas MMOs build their communities primarily from people's gaming circles. As a a result, the approach to retention is radically different between the two. The mobile games are also designed with a far shorter life expectancy. Getting three years of steady revenue out of your mobile game is a decent achievement, whereas an MMO is designed with the intent to be around far longer than that.
If someone has a deep-seated dislike for F2P MMOs because of how the model is used in F2P mobile games, their resentment is either without actual reason or at best simply misplaced.
A lot of mobile games let you buy maxed out characters in their rpg type games? Im not sure.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
If the average person who's spending money on this game is spending upwards of a $100 a month, what incentive does the developer have to create game play for people like me, who are never going to spend that kind of money?
If their ARPPU is $100, they are doing something amazingly right. That still, however, comes out to anywhere between $10 and $40 ARPU - more than likely on the lower end of that scale.
The mobile games aren't indicative of the MMOs, btw. At all. They are F2P but designed very differently. Their content is made to be playable in 5-15 minute segments. They are often designed around limiting the number of segments that can be used per day, much like many of the older Persistent Browser-based Games (PBBGs). They also often have tournaments or unlocks that create incentives that usually are juuuust a tiny bit past the free window in some form or another.
Mobile games are also very different in that they do not have a community, nor do they have people interested in forming a community. The interaction remains within each person's immediate real life social circle - be it at the office or in social media - whereas MMOs build their communities primarily from people's gaming circles. As a a result, the approach to retention is radically different between the two. The mobile games are also designed with a far shorter life expectancy. Getting three years of steady revenue out of your mobile game is a decent achievement, whereas an MMO is designed with the intent to be around far longer than that.
If someone has a deep-seated dislike for F2P MMOs because of how the model is used in F2P mobile games, their resentment is either without actual reason or at best simply misplaced.
A lot of mobile games let you buy maxed out characters in their rpg type games? Im not sure.
Neither am I, and I wonder why you even brought that up.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game. Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.
agree
to use another ftp game comparison -- Puzzle Pirates
the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.
The reason why I hate F2P games with a passion is because they cost me MUCH more to play enjoyably than any P2P game I've ever played.
Then it seems there's a problem with your playstyle, doesn't it?
No, the games are designed that way, I would almost say to a level of psychological ingenuity. I've noticed it. Anyone not fully immersed in the denial stage of buyers' remorse notices it. Cryptic/Perfect World base their entire income profile around it.
The reason why I hate F2P games with a passion is because they cost me MUCH more to play enjoyably than any P2P game I've ever played.
Then it seems there's a problem with your playstyle, doesn't it?
No, the games are designed that way, I would almost say to a level of psychological ingenuity. I've noticed it. Anyone not fully immersed in the denial stage of buyers' remorse notices it. Cryptic/Perfect World base their entire income profile around it.
This is no illusion.
And yet somehow most people manage to play the game without either spending anything or very little. Therefore it is your playstyle that determines how much you will spend.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game. Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.
Obviously there ARE plenty of fools in the MMORPG world to keep crappy F2P MMORPGs afloat. So you have to hope that designers would prefer to make good, quality games, instead of steaming piles of F2P crap. ALL, and I mean ALL, F2P MMORPGs are crap. F2P isn't an entirely horrible business model for SOME gaming genres, but it IS crap for MMORPGs, because the only way F2P can sustain an MMORPG is thru pay to win. If you can buy even one piece of content that should be earned or anything like that, you've corrupted your game and the thing about MMORPGs is that moreso than in any other genre, the entire game is about earning stuff and making progress. Even selling vanity clothing is lame in MMORPGs because it's something that SHOULD be obtained thru playing, not paying.
There have been some articles posted on this web site in other posts that seem to suggest that the average F2P player does pay more than $15 a month though. It's hard to nail down and easy to read anything you want to into the numbers since F2P companies don't release average revenue per player numbers but I think it's safe to say that on average F2P games cost more than a traditional subscription does. Sure F2P gives people options to work around that and pay less but I'm talking overall across the entire player base.
What that tells me is that traditional true subscriptions are underpriced. Now some companies have made up for that with "vanity" shops instead of increasing the monthly price but one has to wonder if a AAA MMO was released with a $25 a month sub fee and no add on costs if it would really hurt it being priced higher like that? It probably would even though it shouldn't be since it's easier and safer to charge piecemeal and hide the overall cost rather trying to put it up front.
Ultimately I think the $15 a month barrier that companies seem unable to push subscriptions over is sub games biggest enemy and what assures F2P and "Hybrid" models are here to stay. Consumers are willing to pay in many cases much more than that on a game but only as impulse micro transactions not a upfront subscription.
The average F2P player actually plays for free. Hence the whole concept of whales. It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games. I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.
The reason why I hate F2P games with a passion is because they cost me MUCH more to play enjoyably than any P2P game I've ever played.
Then it seems there's a problem with your playstyle, doesn't it?
No, the games are designed that way, I would almost say to a level of psychological ingenuity. I've noticed it. Anyone not fully immersed in the denial stage of buyers' remorse notices it. Cryptic/Perfect World base their entire income profile around it.
This is no illusion.
And yet somehow most people manage to play the game without either spending anything or very little. Therefore it is your playstyle that determines how much you will spend.
Hmm, well, I really think you're missing something in the psychological urge for instant gratification and "being of the haves instead of have-nots".
Sure. If it's your "playstyle" to get a fraction of accomplishment per online hour compared to others, and can be satisfied with that, I guess you might be right. Personally, I wouldn't call that "playstyle" but rather "resigning to a lowered standard".
I kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game. Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.
Obviously there ARE plenty of fools in the MMORPG world to keep crappy F2P MMORPGs afloat. So you have to hope that designers would prefer to make good, quality games, instead of steaming piles of F2P crap. ALL, and I mean ALL, F2P MMORPGs are crap. F2P isn't an entirely horrible business model for SOME gaming genres, but it IS crap for MMORPGs, because the only way F2P can sustain an MMORPG is thru pay to win. If you can buy even one piece of content that should be earned or anything like that, you've corrupted your game and the thing about MMORPGs is that moreso than in any other genre, the entire game is about earning stuff and making progress. Even selling vanity clothing is lame in MMORPGs because it's something that SHOULD be obtained thru playing, not paying.
There have been some articles posted on this web site in other posts that seem to suggest that the average F2P player does pay more than $15 a month though. It's hard to nail down and easy to read anything you want to into the numbers since F2P companies don't release average revenue per player numbers but I think it's safe to say that on average F2P games cost more than a traditional subscription does. Sure F2P gives people options to work around that and pay less but I'm talking overall across the entire player base.
What that tells me is that traditional true subscriptions are underpriced. Now some companies have made up for that with "vanity" shops instead of increasing the monthly price but one has to wonder if a AAA MMO was released with a $25 a month sub fee and no add on costs if it would really hurt it being priced higher like that? It probably would even though it shouldn't be since it's easier and safer to charge piecemeal and hide the overall cost rather trying to put it up front.
Ultimately I think the $15 a month barrier that companies seem unable to push subscriptions over is sub games biggest enemy and what assures F2P and "Hybrid" models are here to stay. Consumers are willing to pay in many cases much more than that on a game but only as impulse micro transactions not a upfront subscription.
The average F2P player actually plays for free. Hence the whole concept of whales. It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games. I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.
Games like that are built from the marketing up. They aren't built for longevity, artistic purposes, GOTY awards, they are built to funnel you back down to the store where they started. It's sad but it's expected, AAA Devs haven't sunk that low yet, but it's on it's way.
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
The average F2P player actually plays for free. Hence the whole concept of whales. It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games. I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.
I'm not sure there really is an avg player in a f2p. A large number of players don't spend money on these games but that includes all the people who make an account try it for a day..hour..whatever and quit.
The paying population numbers I often see always seem to hover around the 10% mark but that isn't as low as it sounds. Including every account ever made keeps that number low.
From the group of ppl I play with we spend between $5 and $30 a month which seems normal among players who spend any real amount of time in a game. I don't know that the whales are as common as ppl like to think in normal mmos. You seem to hear about them more often in these crazy mobile games or facebook.
f2p mmos seem more about getting lots of people to spend a bit rather than a few spending a lot.
The average F2P player actually plays for free. Hence the whole concept of whales. It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games. I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.
I'm not sure there really is an avg player in a f2p. A large number of players don't spend money on these games but that includes all the people who make an account try it for a day..hour..whatever and quit.
The paying population numbers I often see always seem to hover around the 10% mark but that isn't as low as it sounds. Including every account ever made keeps that number low.
From the group of ppl I play with we spend between $5 and $30 a month which seems normal among players who spend any real amount of time in a game. I don't know that the whales are as common as ppl like to think in normal mmos. You seem to hear about them more often in these crazy mobile games or facebook.
f2p mmos seem more about getting lots of people to spend a bit rather than a few spending a lot.
Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?
I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.
Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?
I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.
I laughed at the last part...and agree
I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!
PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.
I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.
Most of your Facebook flash based games are Pay to Win, not Free to Play. While you can partake in these games for free, you'll be at an extreme disadvantage unless you shell out the cash to purchase in game items that free based players either can not obtain or can only obtain if they devote their entire lives to actually playing the game. These are disposable games that are made to rope in paying addicts that will shell out thousands of dollars on in game items for a game that lasts a few years, then they'll shut the game down and start a new one to pull those addicts into something fresh. I was recently playing one called Wartune, where I was in a guide with a guy who spent over $10k-20k on the game before quitting.
Now, a true free to play game won't cripple free based players because they count on these players to maintain the high population...giving their paying players individuals to play alongside. If there aren't enough people playing a game, then no one enjoys the game and your paying customers will leave. A good example of a free to play game is Planetside 2, which doesn't sell anything that will give you an edge over non-paying players. The only thing you can do by paying for anything in Planetside 2 is get what free based players can obtain faster, that's it. You can purchase weapons instantly...or you can actually take the time to work up to in game currency to obtain these weapons.
In my opinion, this is an excellent system. Now, with SOE's Player Studio, they have ensured that they will be pulling in even more revenue through subcontracting artists to create content for them atop of what they, themselves, create. This takes the strain off the development team and lets them take on the task of continent development, optimization, weapon design, etc.
The free to play system, the TRUE free to play system, is a new concept that developers are still trying to figure out. Ultimately, many fail and it turns into a Pay to Win concept until finally crashing and burning because of the switch. Free based players don't like being screwed over, and without actually having put money into a game...they're not hesitant to bail if a development team suddenly decides to implement something into the game that's pay to win.
I've a heart of pure black jade, beating forth the ebon ink of shattered dreams. So spread those thighs my darlings, and let me hear those lustful screams... For twisting coils and silken strands, my venom coursing through your veins. It's my bliss you seek, to ease those troubled pains...
The average F2P player actually plays for free. Hence the whole concept of whales. It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games. I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.
Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by VoqarI kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game. Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.
agree
to use another ftp game comparison -- Puzzle Pirates
the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.
So the people who are paying are paying $10 to $20 a month, probably something like $15 a month.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?
I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.
I laughed at the last part...and agree
I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!
PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.
I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.
Actually as I understand it, stats similar to that are pretty regularly collected. ARPPU and ARPU of the players that log in over a 15 or 30 day period.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VoqarI kind of doubt your average player will drop $100/mo on any game. Fools and their money are easily parted for sure, but the average player doesn't have the luxury to be that foolish with money.
agree
to use another ftp game comparison -- Puzzle Pirates
the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.
So the people who are paying are paying $10 to $20 a month, probably something like $15 a month.
And there are always a very very small percentage of whales, who would pay a lot more.
An employee of R2Games actually held a conference or presentation on this to explain things to investors (you can find the link to it if you search).
Basically, he listed the pros of "fishing for whales" (and yes, he called them "Whales", too) using a cash shop that gives power (IE, pay to win) as high profit margins, etc, and then he listed one of the cons as "shorter game life span".
In short, they KNOW they're compromising their game when they design a pay-2-win system that fishes for whales. They also know that it's a drawback that shortens the life of the game. They just see it as an acceptable from a business standpoint.
(and yes, those whales exist. I know of people that spent OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND on a lame browser game).
Kinda makes one wonder why even bother spending time, money, and hopefully love creating a good subscription game when a stupid browser game (maybe) makes more money as long as it manages to hook a few whales.
I agree with your assessment.
These two things, the "fishing for whales" and the "shorter life span" is what is going to run this genre into the ground. Because when these whales who are "fished" have their games closed down, after paying hundreds--if not thousands--of dollars on them, they might be reluctant to dive back full bore next time.
It has been one year since the CoH shutdown notice. A lot of long time players didn't just get angry at NCSoft...they gave up on the whole damn genre. And you know? I don't blame 'em. Why throw a ton of money and time into these things, only to have it all taken away at the stroke of an accountant's pen?
You've got to think that people aren't going to be fooled twice into throwing big time cash into these things, when they do, and they don't have anything to show for it when the things meet the publisher's target objectives and they are closed down. Not when there are so many other good things that are available, that are cheaper and more enduring to throw money at.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I don't know how far this discussion has strayed from the OP but I feel like OP is right in saying that what he experienced is a condensed version of what we know about F2P.
I know the kind of games you're talking about and I agree. But it does feel like the F2P MMORPGs are looking for people to play more long term and *probably* spend less on average per month? As in, those little mobile games (or similar browser based games) are probably super addictive at first to the point where you'll drop a lot of money, but I bet you get sick of them much more quickly, learn your lesson and don't ever play another one again. Whereas with MMORPGs you may spend less and feel like it was less of a "mistake" when you're done.
Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?
I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.
I laughed at the last part...and agree
I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!
PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.
I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.
Actually as I understand it, stats similar to that are pretty regularly collected. ARPPU and ARPU of the players that log in over a 15 or 30 day period.
Are they ever made public anywhere ? I'd like to see some. I think it'd be interesting to actually know rather than always just be guessing.
Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?
I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.
I laughed at the last part...and agree
I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!
PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.
I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.
Actually as I understand it, stats similar to that are pretty regularly collected. ARPPU and ARPU of the players that log in over a 15 or 30 day period.
Pretty much the industry standard.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
If their ARPPU is $100, they are doing something amazingly right. That still, however, comes out to anywhere between $10 and $40 ARPU - more than likely on the lower end of that scale.
The mobile games aren't indicative of the MMOs, btw. At all. They are F2P but designed very differently. Their content is made to be playable in 5-15 minute segments. They are often designed around limiting the number of segments that can be used per day, much like many of the older Persistent Browser-based Games (PBBGs). They also often have tournaments or unlocks that create incentives that usually are juuuust a tiny bit past the free window in some form or another.
Mobile games are also very different in that they do not have a community, nor do they have people interested in forming a community. The interaction remains within each person's immediate real life social circle - be it at the office or in social media - whereas MMOs build their communities primarily from people's gaming circles. As a a result, the approach to retention is radically different between the two. The mobile games are also designed with a far shorter life expectancy. Getting three years of steady revenue out of your mobile game is a decent achievement, whereas an MMO is designed with the intent to be around far longer than that.
If someone has a deep-seated dislike for F2P MMOs because of how the model is used in F2P mobile games, their resentment is either without actual reason or at best simply misplaced.There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Welcome to like 3 years ago OP.
A lot of mobile games let you buy maxed out characters in their rpg type games? Im not sure.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Neither am I, and I wonder why you even brought that up.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
agree
to use another ftp game comparison -- Puzzle Pirates
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4046/what_are_the_rewards_of_.php
the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.
EQ2 fan sites
Then it seems there's a problem with your playstyle, doesn't it?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
No, the games are designed that way, I would almost say to a level of psychological ingenuity. I've noticed it. Anyone not fully immersed in the denial stage of buyers' remorse notices it. Cryptic/Perfect World base their entire income profile around it.
This is no illusion.
And yet somehow most people manage to play the game without either spending anything or very little. Therefore it is your playstyle that determines how much you will spend.
The average F2P player actually plays for free. Hence the whole concept of whales. It's an extremely low % of the populations on avg that spend cash at all in F2P games. I'm not 100% sure on the number but it's extremely low and the average player is definitely paying nothing to play.
Steam: Neph
Hmm, well, I really think you're missing something in the psychological urge for instant gratification and "being of the haves instead of have-nots".
Sure. If it's your "playstyle" to get a fraction of accomplishment per online hour compared to others, and can be satisfied with that, I guess you might be right. Personally, I wouldn't call that "playstyle" but rather "resigning to a lowered standard".
Cite data source, please.
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
I'm not sure there really is an avg player in a f2p. A large number of players don't spend money on these games but that includes all the people who make an account try it for a day..hour..whatever and quit.
The paying population numbers I often see always seem to hover around the 10% mark but that isn't as low as it sounds. Including every account ever made keeps that number low.
From the group of ppl I play with we spend between $5 and $30 a month which seems normal among players who spend any real amount of time in a game. I don't know that the whales are as common as ppl like to think in normal mmos. You seem to hear about them more often in these crazy mobile games or facebook.
f2p mmos seem more about getting lots of people to spend a bit rather than a few spending a lot.
Great point. Do statistics (if they exist) of "average players" include people who downloaded the game, looked at it for 3 hours and uninstalled?
I "played" neverwinter mmo for maybe 3 hours total and deleted it. Somewhere I'm on some proud list, I'm sure, of F2P "players who spend nothing to play", but if anyone said to my face, "you are a player of neverwinter", I'd punch them.
I laughed at the last part...and agree
I'm sure on some list you're also one of the 50 million ppl who have signed up for neverwinter!!!!! why don't you join them too!
PEople put way too much faith is stats when it comes to these things. Like how many subs a f2p game has...doesn't tell you how much money it's making. It doesn't include all the cash shop buys.
I'd like to see a "of the people that logged in in the last 30 days and played for more than .... 10 hours ( arbitrary number ) xx% of them spent money on the game. It will never happen though.
Most of your Facebook flash based games are Pay to Win, not Free to Play. While you can partake in these games for free, you'll be at an extreme disadvantage unless you shell out the cash to purchase in game items that free based players either can not obtain or can only obtain if they devote their entire lives to actually playing the game. These are disposable games that are made to rope in paying addicts that will shell out thousands of dollars on in game items for a game that lasts a few years, then they'll shut the game down and start a new one to pull those addicts into something fresh. I was recently playing one called Wartune, where I was in a guide with a guy who spent over $10k-20k on the game before quitting.
Now, a true free to play game won't cripple free based players because they count on these players to maintain the high population...giving their paying players individuals to play alongside. If there aren't enough people playing a game, then no one enjoys the game and your paying customers will leave. A good example of a free to play game is Planetside 2, which doesn't sell anything that will give you an edge over non-paying players. The only thing you can do by paying for anything in Planetside 2 is get what free based players can obtain faster, that's it. You can purchase weapons instantly...or you can actually take the time to work up to in game currency to obtain these weapons.
In my opinion, this is an excellent system. Now, with SOE's Player Studio, they have ensured that they will be pulling in even more revenue through subcontracting artists to create content for them atop of what they, themselves, create. This takes the strain off the development team and lets them take on the task of continent development, optimization, weapon design, etc.
The free to play system, the TRUE free to play system, is a new concept that developers are still trying to figure out. Ultimately, many fail and it turns into a Pay to Win concept until finally crashing and burning because of the switch. Free based players don't like being screwed over, and without actually having put money into a game...they're not hesitant to bail if a development team suddenly decides to implement something into the game that's pay to win.
I've a heart of pure black jade, beating forth the ebon ink of shattered dreams. So spread those thighs my darlings, and let me hear those lustful screams... For twisting coils and silken strands, my venom coursing through your veins. It's my bliss you seek, to ease those troubled pains...
http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/global-mmo-games-spending-exceeds-12bn/
"Of all 50 million MMO gamers in the US, 23 million spend money on free-to-play or subscription MMOs."
Hence, a majority, 27M do not pay.
to use another ftp game comparison -- Puzzle Pirates
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4046/what_are_the_rewards_of_.php
the average revenue per user (ARPU) is between one and two dollars a month, but only about 10% of his player base has ever paid him anything. As a result, he says, approximately 5,000 gamers are generating the $230,000 in revenue he sees each month.
So the people who are paying are paying $10 to $20 a month, probably something like $15 a month.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Actually as I understand it, stats similar to that are pretty regularly collected. ARPPU and ARPU of the players that log in over a 15 or 30 day period.
And there are always a very very small percentage of whales, who would pay a lot more.
I agree with your assessment.
These two things, the "fishing for whales" and the "shorter life span" is what is going to run this genre into the ground. Because when these whales who are "fished" have their games closed down, after paying hundreds--if not thousands--of dollars on them, they might be reluctant to dive back full bore next time.
It has been one year since the CoH shutdown notice. A lot of long time players didn't just get angry at NCSoft...they gave up on the whole damn genre. And you know? I don't blame 'em. Why throw a ton of money and time into these things, only to have it all taken away at the stroke of an accountant's pen?
You've got to think that people aren't going to be fooled twice into throwing big time cash into these things, when they do, and they don't have anything to show for it when the things meet the publisher's target objectives and they are closed down. Not when there are so many other good things that are available, that are cheaper and more enduring to throw money at.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I don't know how far this discussion has strayed from the OP but I feel like OP is right in saying that what he experienced is a condensed version of what we know about F2P.
I know the kind of games you're talking about and I agree. But it does feel like the F2P MMORPGs are looking for people to play more long term and *probably* spend less on average per month? As in, those little mobile games (or similar browser based games) are probably super addictive at first to the point where you'll drop a lot of money, but I bet you get sick of them much more quickly, learn your lesson and don't ever play another one again. Whereas with MMORPGs you may spend less and feel like it was less of a "mistake" when you're done.
Are they ever made public anywhere ? I'd like to see some. I think it'd be interesting to actually know rather than always just be guessing.
Pretty much the industry standard.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre