It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
I clearly stated that if the gold buying was provided by the game developer without third party intervention, I had no problem with it. Thing is, the vast majority of the MMOs don't provide such a service, therefore the vast majority of gold purchases are definitely made from illegal gold farmers.
Never ever bought gold, if you don't count paying dinner to some guildies for TCG mount from AH in Wow.
Now I have gold worth near 2k euros and more to come (guild mates even more, fkin no-lifers ), thanks to all who bought same gold from gold sellers and payed for boosts in hc raids/cm dungeons.
Its not that simple. Count in sleep, social acitivites, sports, overhead (eating etc.), maybe another hobby (watching shows or whatever) and you are left with only a precious few hours for gaming. There is a difference between having 2 extra hours a day in comparison to 7-8 (school...). Your perspective changes. You will want to make those 2 hours count. Grinding with a boring and repetitive combat system gets old fast. That leaves me with two options: Not playing or skipping that content.
You see, that's the problem right there, MMO are not for ppl with lives, other hobby and social activities...they are for gamers...and that's the main reason why MMOs has lost it's soul. People consider themself gamers because they play Farmville on Facebook, they come to our games and ask to make it easier/faster because they have lives and other stuff do to, they even tell us that the other stuff is way more important than the game. So why the hell are you playing MMOs then? Stick to your Facebook game or your single player game.
So if you're buying gold because your time worth more than money, change hobby.
If you're buying gold because you're lazy, change game.
If you're buying gold because you want an advantage over the other players, you're a bad gamer and should quit gaming!
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
I have bought gold in a few games. It has been years tho.
Why did I buy gold? Pretty much so I would not have to spend many many hours grinding. I have a very good paying job, a family and other hobbies I spend time on. Buying a little gold here and there was pretty much a no brainer. Personally I would only buy enough to get " kickstarted" so to speak, and earn the rest over normal play.
I have met a few people that would spend $100s a month buying gold. Those are the guys the gold sellers make money off of. The $15 bucks I spent a couple of times over the years is only a drop in the bucket.
Like it or not there is a huge demand and many many people buy gold, most spend a good bit of $ doing it too. It may be wrong in some peoples eyes, but I dont care what other people do with their money, and dont care if anyone likes what I do with mine.
"You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect." - The Merovingian, Matrix Reloaded.
I can't believe you just indirectly quoted Newton using a line from the Matrix.
I can only speak for myself, so I'll say why I do and don't buy MMO currencies.
I occasionally buy an MMO currency if the designers have given me an option to do so (e.g. EvE or GW2). I do this for the most childish of reasons. Because I want something now, don't have the gold/ISK to buy it, and find it easier to just swipe a credit card than wait. I've done this on only a couple of occasions and felt pretty stupid afterward. I consider buying MMO money a failure of my own impulse control. I actually enjoy playing these games, but paid extra to the company because of impatience.
Now, I don't buy MMO currencies in games where it's not specifically offered by the developers. I do this for a very simple reason. Respect. Making even a bad MMO is very difficult and expensive. I have a high degree of respect for people that do this work. If they have asked me not to pay 3rd parties to farm for me then I have enough respect for them to refrain from doing so. I see people that pay 3rd parties when asked not to as having zero respect for the community, the developers, or the genre they pretend to enjoy.
"You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect." - The Merovingian, Matrix Reloaded.
I can't believe you just indirectly quoted Newton using a line from the Matrix.
Boo! Hiss!
The Matrix is just more sexy than Newton - and Newton never said in with those words, either.
I can only speak for myself, so I'll say why I do and don't buy MMO currencies.
I occasionally buy an MMO currency if the designers have given me an option to do so (e.g. EvE or GW2). I do this for the most childish of reasons. Because I want something now, don't have the gold/ISK to buy it, and find it easier to just swipe a credit card than wait. I've done this on only a couple of occasions and felt pretty stupid afterward. I consider buying MMO money a failure of my own impulse control. I actually enjoy playing these games, but paid extra to the company because of impatience.
Now, I don't buy MMO currencies in games where it's not specifically offered by the developers. I do this for a very simple reason. Respect. Making even a bad MMO is very difficult and expensive. I have a high degree of respect for people that do this work. If they have asked me not to pay 3rd parties to farm for me then I have enough respect for them to refrain from doing so. I see people that pay 3rd parties when asked not to as having zero respect for the community, the developers, or the genre they pretend to enjoy.
Its not that simple. Count in sleep, social acitivites, sports, overhead (eating etc.), maybe another hobby (watching shows or whatever) and you are left with only a precious few hours for gaming. There is a difference between having 2 extra hours a day in comparison to 7-8 (school...). Your perspective changes. You will want to make those 2 hours count. Grinding with a boring and repetitive combat system gets old fast. That leaves me with two options: Not playing or skipping that content.
You see, that's the problem right there, MMO are not for ppl with lives, other hobby and social activities...they are for gamers...and that's the main reason why MMOs has lost it's soul. People consider themself gamers because they play Farmville on Facebook, they come to our games and ask to make it easier/faster because they have lives and other stuff do to, they even tell us that the other stuff is way more important than the game. So why the hell are you playing MMOs then? Stick to your Facebook game or your single player game.
So if you're buying gold because your time worth more than money, change hobby.
If you're buying gold because you're lazy, change game.
If you're buying gold because you want an advantage over the other players, you're a bad gamer and should quit gaming!
You hold up the term " Gamer" like its a badge of honor that comes with a code of conduct. For most people its a form of entertainment they do in free time, not the Marines.
Its just not that serious. And I am not sure what would even classify someone as a " bad gamer". It is entertainment, saying bad gamer is like calling someone a Bad Movie watcher.
You are free to have your opinion, and others are free to ignore it. You just stay busy being a true hardcore gamer, that way you can make yourself feel good while you look down on the rest of us
"You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect." - The Merovingian, Matrix Reloaded.
I can't believe you just indirectly quoted Newton using a line from the Matrix.
Boo! Hiss!
The Matrix is just more sexy than Newton - and Newton never said in with those words, either.
Really simple answer there...Not every one can spend 50 hous a day gaming so they spend money to get items needed to compete. There are a lot of other ones but that is the most important one imho
I'd wager that nobody can spend 50 hours a day doing anything, no matter how hard the try......
People buying gold are people who have too much money irl, and therefore can choose to spend it on whatever they feel like on a whim. It doesn't really affect me a lot and as such I dont really care too much about it. Though in my opinion it's wrong and nothing I would ever consider.
There are three reason that drive me to purchase currency in online games.
1) I am older and do not have the time I used to have to invest in the games.
2) I generally anticipate an MMO will only hold me for 3-6 months, and want to get a lot out of my time.
3) Though not independently wealthy, I am not poor. I am a medical marijuana provider in a state that has medical. I make decent enough money that I work for, using that money I am able to alleviate excessive feelings of "grinding" in games.
There are three reason that drive me to purchase currency in online games.
1) I am older and do not have the time I used to have to invest in the games.
2) I generally anticipate an MMO will only hold me for 3-6 months, and want to get a lot out of my time.
3) Though not independently wealthy, I am not poor. I am a medical marijuana provider in a state that has medical. I make decent enough money that I work for, using that money I am able to alleviate excessive feelings of "grinding" in games.
Cheers.
It is a game. And you are simply cheating in it, by paying someone to do the work for you. It is like taking the ball from the football field into your hand, running with it into the goal and saying you won, because you don't have time to play anymore, and you want to have as much fun as you can out of the money you paid renting the football field for an hour. To hear such childish way of thinking from someone who claims to be an adult.
You are basically saying, I am older so I can be a douchebag, and use my money to get advantage over players who want to play fair.
They are just games .. i don't need an advantage in it .. and if it takes too long, i simply quit and do something else.
However, i welcome the whales who buy gold in cash shops. They subsidize the industry while i have free fun, and the devs make a business. It is a win-win-win.
I haven't for like, nearly a decade. The reason why? I was impatient and wanted to get.....whatever the heck I was getting as soon as possible. Don't particularly regret it, I got my gold, he got some money, I got whatever on earth I got with said gold. Still though, I won't buy it anymore since 1) It's a waste of money and 2) I despise gold seller spammers and 3) Because it is much more common that they just steal other peoples stuff to make money. They didn't really spam much in 2004. Now? You have to put so many people on ignore, with the problem being hacked accounts and them using them to spam.
i really would NOT have a problem with peoiple buying gold if bots did not exist(except for dev printed gold) bots are what i have a problem with and chinese/3rdworld gold farmers i dislike those too people who are hired to do onl;y gold farming and nothing else but if some joe schmoe got lucky and found something valuable and wants to sell for cash go ahead hes just recieveing cash instead of plat or gold for said item
The problem is when people use hacks and bots distorting everything and ruining it, If i had a mmo company i would do my best to see that no hacks or bots would be used, i wonder would a specialty os for the game only do it ? hmm
id pay hackers to take down gold selling sites require a webcam for computerized face recognition upon login make combat or the ui impossible for bots to work in
im sure all of it could be hacked and bipassed eventually, but if everything changed every month or so maybe not
when hackers enter a game irresponsible hack use can ruin a game , sorrry you cant do your epic because some hacker has a key item on lockdown unless you pay 1995 and buy it, sorry that golden globe of awesomeness costs3 million gold because prices are inflatd due to excess gold from bots
Sorry you got trained because that gold farmer wanted your camp or it was alreadyt aken by a bot army
that being said im against players have multiple accounts too, and not just useing bots so id make combat too involvedto be able to box/hydra whatever you want to call it
Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Deceased equine flagellation. This topic still comes up in the F2P Age?
Noted: People will invest in their entertainment, to varying degrees, and convenience has value. A large part of the American economy is built around the value of convenience. Conclusion: This includes many time-saving in-game shortcuts. Your title's cash shop is very likely built around the value of convenience, too.
As the old joke goes: "We've already determined what you are, miss. Now we're just haggling over the price."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Deceased equine flagellation. This topic still comes up in the F2P Age?
Well, fact is that even in F2P games, buying in game currency is mostly illegal. Only very few games, be they P2P, F2P, Sub based or "Send me a hug every month to play" based, have a build in (aka developer controlled and legal) real money to in game currency system.
Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Deceased equine flagellation. This topic still comes up in the F2P Age?
Well, fact is that even in F2P games, buying in game currency is mostly illegal. Only very few games, be they P2P, F2P, Sub based or "Send me a hug every month to play" based, have a build in (aka developer controlled and legal) real money to in game currency system.
The games that don't sell gold still peddle convenience (xp potions, very common).
I would presume not all titles even have economies that reward 'gold selling' at all (CoH didn't, the game I'm currently in doesn't)...
Remove the world "gold" and replace it with "convenience" everywhere you see it. :shrug: The topic remains the same.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Deceased equine flagellation. This topic still comes up in the F2P Age?
Well, fact is that even in F2P games, buying in game currency is mostly illegal. Only very few games, be they P2P, F2P, Sub based or "Send me a hug every month to play" based, have a build in (aka developer controlled and legal) real money to in game currency system.
The games that don't sell gold still peddle convenience (xp potions, very common).
I would presume not all titles even have economies that reward 'gold selling' at all (CoH didn't, the game I'm currently in doesn't)...
Remove the world "gold" and replace it with "convenience" everywhere you see it. :shrug: The topic remains the same.
Not really. The "conveniences" are limited to what is available in said game's cash shop. What can only be bought in game with in game currency remains out of reach unless you actually play the game to get it. That's where illegal gold sellers make their living.
It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
I clearly stated that if the gold buying was provided by the game developer without third party intervention, I had no problem with it. Thing is, the vast majority of the MMOs don't provide such a service, therefore the vast majority of gold purchases are definitely made from illegal gold farmers.
So what did I assume?
Who knows. vOv Didn't even read your post.
I was replying to nilden's statement.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Stizzled I'd be interested to know, out of those who have bought gold (whether it's through a 3rd party or from the developer themselves), how many of you prefer P2P games and hate the supposed P2W, F2P games?
I've bought game currency from both 3rd party and developer sanctioned channels. I have no business model preference.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
I clearly stated that if the gold buying was provided by the game developer without third party intervention, I had no problem with it. Thing is, the vast majority of the MMOs don't provide such a service, therefore the vast majority of gold purchases are definitely made from illegal gold farmers.
So what did I assume?
Who knows. vOv Didn't even read your post.
I was replying to nilden's statement.
Sorry then. But since you quoted both of us and explicitely said "both" in your post, I assumed (my turn! ) that you were talking to both of us.
It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
I clearly stated that if the gold buying was provided by the game developer without third party intervention, I had no problem with it. Thing is, the vast majority of the MMOs don't provide such a service, therefore the vast majority of gold purchases are definitely made from illegal gold farmers.
So what did I assume?
Who knows. vOv Didn't even read your post.
I was replying to nilden's statement.
Sorry then. But since you quoted both of us and explicitely said "both" in your post, I assumed (my turn! ) that you were talking to both of us.
Ah, ok. My mistake. there's an extra 'both' in my sentence. Sorry for the confusion there. Was only referring to nilden's blanket statement.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
I clearly stated that if the gold buying was provided by the game developer without third party intervention, I had no problem with it. Thing is, the vast majority of the MMOs don't provide such a service, therefore the vast majority of gold purchases are definitely made from illegal gold farmers.
So what did I assume?
My computer is better than yours.
Never ever bought gold, if you don't count paying dinner to some guildies for TCG mount from AH in Wow.
Now I have gold worth near 2k euros and more to come (guild mates even more, fkin no-lifers
), thanks to all who bought same gold from gold sellers and payed for boosts in hc raids/cm dungeons.
You see, that's the problem right there, MMO are not for ppl with lives, other hobby and social activities...they are for gamers...and that's the main reason why MMOs has lost it's soul. People consider themself gamers because they play Farmville on Facebook, they come to our games and ask to make it easier/faster because they have lives and other stuff do to, they even tell us that the other stuff is way more important than the game. So why the hell are you playing MMOs then? Stick to your Facebook game or your single player game.
So if you're buying gold because your time worth more than money, change hobby.
If you're buying gold because you're lazy, change game.
If you're buying gold because you want an advantage over the other players, you're a bad gamer and should quit gaming!
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
I have bought gold in a few games. It has been years tho.
Why did I buy gold? Pretty much so I would not have to spend many many hours grinding. I have a very good paying job, a family and other hobbies I spend time on. Buying a little gold here and there was pretty much a no brainer. Personally I would only buy enough to get " kickstarted" so to speak, and earn the rest over normal play.
I have met a few people that would spend $100s a month buying gold. Those are the guys the gold sellers make money off of. The $15 bucks I spent a couple of times over the years is only a drop in the bucket.
Like it or not there is a huge demand and many many people buy gold, most spend a good bit of $ doing it too. It may be wrong in some peoples eyes, but I dont care what other people do with their money, and dont care if anyone likes what I do with mine.
I can't believe you just indirectly quoted Newton using a line from the Matrix.
Boo! Hiss!
I can only speak for myself, so I'll say why I do and don't buy MMO currencies.
I occasionally buy an MMO currency if the designers have given me an option to do so (e.g. EvE or GW2). I do this for the most childish of reasons. Because I want something now, don't have the gold/ISK to buy it, and find it easier to just swipe a credit card than wait. I've done this on only a couple of occasions and felt pretty stupid afterward. I consider buying MMO money a failure of my own impulse control. I actually enjoy playing these games, but paid extra to the company because of impatience.
Now, I don't buy MMO currencies in games where it's not specifically offered by the developers. I do this for a very simple reason. Respect. Making even a bad MMO is very difficult and expensive. I have a high degree of respect for people that do this work. If they have asked me not to pay 3rd parties to farm for me then I have enough respect for them to refrain from doing so. I see people that pay 3rd parties when asked not to as having zero respect for the community, the developers, or the genre they pretend to enjoy.
The Matrix is just more sexy than Newton - and Newton never said in with those words, either.
My computer is better than yours.
An attitude that I share 100%.
My computer is better than yours.
Keyword 'willing'.
You hold up the term " Gamer" like its a badge of honor that comes with a code of conduct. For most people its a form of entertainment they do in free time, not the Marines.
Its just not that serious. And I am not sure what would even classify someone as a " bad gamer". It is entertainment, saying bad gamer is like calling someone a Bad Movie watcher.
You are free to have your opinion, and others are free to ignore it. You just stay busy being a true hardcore gamer, that way you can make yourself feel good while you look down on the rest of us
Hence my use of the word "indirectly".
I'd wager that nobody can spend 50 hours a day doing anything, no matter how hard the try......
People buying gold are people who have too much money irl, and therefore can choose to spend it on whatever they feel like on a whim. It doesn't really affect me a lot and as such I dont really care too much about it. Though in my opinion it's wrong and nothing I would ever consider.
There are three reason that drive me to purchase currency in online games.
1) I am older and do not have the time I used to have to invest in the games.
2) I generally anticipate an MMO will only hold me for 3-6 months, and want to get a lot out of my time.
3) Though not independently wealthy, I am not poor. I am a medical marijuana provider in a state that has medical. I make decent enough money that I work for, using that money I am able to alleviate excessive feelings of "grinding" in games.
Cheers.
It is a game. And you are simply cheating in it, by paying someone to do the work for you. It is like taking the ball from the football field into your hand, running with it into the goal and saying you won, because you don't have time to play anymore, and you want to have as much fun as you can out of the money you paid renting the football field for an hour. To hear such childish way of thinking from someone who claims to be an adult.
You are basically saying, I am older so I can be a douchebag, and use my money to get advantage over players who want to play fair.
I don't buy gold.
They are just games .. i don't need an advantage in it .. and if it takes too long, i simply quit and do something else.
However, i welcome the whales who buy gold in cash shops. They subsidize the industry while i have free fun, and the devs make a business. It is a win-win-win.
i really would NOT have a problem with peoiple buying gold if bots did not exist(except for dev printed gold) bots are what i have a problem with and chinese/3rdworld gold farmers i dislike those too people who are hired to do onl;y gold farming and nothing else but if some joe schmoe got lucky and found something valuable and wants to sell for cash go ahead hes just recieveing cash instead of plat or gold for said item
The problem is when people use hacks and bots distorting everything and ruining it, If i had a mmo company i would do my best to see that no hacks or bots would be used, i wonder would a specialty os for the game only do it ? hmm
id pay hackers to take down gold selling sites require a webcam for computerized face recognition upon login make combat or the ui impossible for bots to work in
im sure all of it could be hacked and bipassed eventually, but if everything changed every month or so maybe not
when hackers enter a game irresponsible hack use can ruin a game , sorrry you cant do your epic because some hacker has a key item on lockdown unless you pay 1995 and buy it, sorry that golden globe of awesomeness costs3 million gold because prices are inflatd due to excess gold from bots
Sorry you got trained because that gold farmer wanted your camp or it was alreadyt aken by a bot army
that being said im against players have multiple accounts too, and not just useing bots so id make combat too involvedto be able to box/hydra whatever you want to call it
Deceased equine flagellation. This topic still comes up in the F2P Age?
Noted: People will invest in their entertainment, to varying degrees, and convenience has value. A large part of the American economy is built around the value of convenience. Conclusion: This includes many time-saving in-game shortcuts. Your title's cash shop is very likely built around the value of convenience, too.
As the old joke goes: "We've already determined what you are, miss. Now we're just haggling over the price."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Well, fact is that even in F2P games, buying in game currency is mostly illegal. Only very few games, be they P2P, F2P, Sub based or "Send me a hug every month to play" based, have a build in (aka developer controlled and legal) real money to in game currency system.
My computer is better than yours.
The games that don't sell gold still peddle convenience (xp potions, very common).
I would presume not all titles even have economies that reward 'gold selling' at all (CoH didn't, the game I'm currently in doesn't)...
Remove the world "gold" and replace it with "convenience" everywhere you see it. :shrug: The topic remains the same.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Not really. The "conveniences" are limited to what is available in said game's cash shop. What can only be bought in game with in game currency remains out of reach unless you actually play the game to get it. That's where illegal gold sellers make their living.
My computer is better than yours.
Who knows. vOv Didn't even read your post.
I was replying to nilden's statement.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I've bought game currency from both 3rd party and developer sanctioned channels. I have no business model preference.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Sorry then. But since you quoted both of us and explicitely said "both" in your post, I assumed (my turn!
) that you were talking to both of us.
My computer is better than yours.
Ah, ok. My mistake. there's an extra 'both' in my sentence. Sorry for the confusion there. Was only referring to nilden's blanket statement.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre