Some people play on consoles exclusively. Some people play on PCs exclusively. Some people play on both. Some people only have a Mac (the redheaded bastard stepchild in this discussion).
I've been around for a long time. I remember when games could only be played on a tabletop, a console, a hand held, or at an arcade; because there wasn't such a thing as a PC. I remember when mac dominated early computer gaming because Macs were far easier for devs to deal with spec wise. I remember when mice were after market devices for PCs; only used when precision was needed (like CAD). I remember looking at a Gateway 2000 catalog and seeing a $2.5k price tag for a 286 and about the same price for a Dell!
The argument that because consoles have set specs and are therefore easier for devs to work with is a true statement. But if that were the whole of it why is it then that almost no games are made for the mac anymore? Macs have the same limitations as consoles, yet almost no games are made with the mac in mind. This calls into question the whole of the argument that because consoles are easier to program for, consoles will win. If that were true, then Macs would have already long since beaten PCs.
Sales. Why would you limit sales to only "hardcore" games. Casual gaming is exploding both in terms of revenue generated, and titles available. So leaving casual gaming out of the sales data is the equivalent of leaving out after market sales of console devices like Bluetooth headsets or wireless controllers. I bet those weren't left out, were they? There are lots of casual type games for consoles too, are you going to leave the sales of those games out of your sales figures as well? If you are going to look at sales figures then only when you look at all the numbers do you gain a full understanding of what is really happening. To leave something out because, you personally don't care for it; is what some would call "spin". I call for what it is: lies based on ignorance.
I didn't watch the video, really after reading the discussion I don't need to. He's a securities analyst for gods sake, why are you people even giving this the time of day? Or did you forget this lovely quote: "That incident was a great example of what a whiny group gamers are in general," saying that "[game publisher Electronic Arts] handled it fine."
For all you that are defending him I just have this to say: LOL!
Originally posted by gold What "most companies are forsaking the pc market"?
Only publisher I can think of that is console only is NINTENDO
You mentioned earlier glow as an example of console games not going pc "due to piracy". I'm sorry but this is their marketing speak. The reason glow isn't on pc is because its not the sort of game pc gamers buy.
Consoles have a younger demographic that plays at a distance on a TV, and games to reflect that like over the shoulder shooters and spectacle fighters.
Likewise you have your more "nerdy" games on pc that you would never see on console as the pc and console demographics are so different - crusader kings 2, EU, CV', euro truck simulator etc..
Well let me address each point quite easily:
A) Gears Of War 2 is exactly the type of game that would sell well on a pc as first person shooters in general are very lucrative compared to other genres on pc. Go to unity3d.com and see how many people are making pc only fps clones with no real distinction. Hell most would even claim fps was born on pc's either way fps sell well everywhere which I personally find sad because there is only a few I could say were anything near innovative or my cup of tea but again I'm not everybody and I realize that.
So does pc but generally while you may have many older people the main sales that pc gets is from that same age group. As an example of that "kids" spend without forethought so they'll usually buy 50% or so more videogames if allowed to especially when you get to the late teens early to mid 20s ratio. Either way this is hardly an argument.
C) Oh yes I do have my more "nerdy games" on pc and I love them and I realize they're not general enough to appeal to the masses and that is exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying. Piracy as well as the multiple hardware configurations are killing pc and I want it to be a haven for all that. Honestly with how companies are acting I'd love the future I prescribed earlier where the big companies retreat to consoles and indies take over pc but there is a big problem. When big companies leave the pc {and I'm sorry but I posted many examples where they have either show that they have their eye on the door (ue4 putting most of its resources to next gen development, major franchises pulling out of pc ports like glow) } that will wildly reduce the number of potential customers and make it an unattractive platform which from a game development standpoint it is already. As evidenced by the games you pointed at that compared to common console ports have real paltry numbers.
D) This goes back to what I was saying before but lets go back to the Dwayne and Scott situation. The current pc market is expecting that companies will stick around and cater to Scott's high dollar, obsessive interests as opposed to Dwayne's who is much easier to satisfy. Now take that situation and add a robbery ring that eats up 90% of sales and you have the current status of the pc market. For the niche games to exist we need more people that don't want to play those games. Why? because even if they are unlikely to purchase that type of game it is a potential buy.
E) Finally as this seems to be taking a turn towards a taste war and conjecture let me clarify some points. I don't like fps and most console games I'm one of those people who buys alot more pc than console. As an example of mmorpg tastes I love the secret world, champions online, which all are niche games. I have more games for my computer than I do for console since my console hayday was playstation 2 and I find alot of the modern games as just lacking a sense of soul. With that said it doesn't take away from the fact that from a business stand point Micheal Pachter is right and the refusal to acknowledge the problems in this market will just lead to it being a game graveyard similar to mac (although it is getting much better for them in the last few years). There is rampant piracy problems and because of that the pc is an unattractive platform that only really gets used in cases where all other options are already exhausted, the complexity of the game warrants the control system afforded by pcs, the other options aren't accessible. Without addressing the piracy problem there will be no market for pc games does that mean its happening tomorrow? no will it happen in the next 5 years? possibly but instead of waiting for that dead end to come up we need to address the problem now.
Again I love pen and paper rpgs but honestly they didn't really address the problems inherent in that market and we see where that industry is now.
Originally posted by goldtoof Aban. Yeah I think your figures are wrong. If a steamworks game sold a million physical copies I would expect steam sales to be around FIVE million.
as for what is casual gaming. Well it depends who defines it. Say there was a survey sponsored by the big publishers on gaming, I could see anything not AAA being chucked in the casual category, even big selling real games e.g. minecraft, terraria, Torchlight 2, kerbal. I could also see them doing simmilar stuff with f2p games like lol, poe, wot & dota2.
Unless that "casual" category specific states "facebook clickers and their ilk" I don't trust it.
that is your opinion and until they provide numbers either way we can't say for sure. I honestly feel as though your vastly over-exaggerating the pc audience and the members of stream and honestly I don't feel the company is unbiased enough to go off their press release numbers.
Well I really don't care what the official definition is but I think comparing civ 5 as I referred to previously and farmville in the same sentence doesn't work and similarly games where you're finding the hidden object in the static image. Both types have the same problems which don't put them in the same league as civ 5 for example.
- no initial hardware cost
-Very little user interaction
so as an example a poster above used a chart that I feel is very misleading it shows pc revenue being higher than consoles. I check the link and I forget the specifics but it basically states that what is inflating the number to that level is farmville. They even if I remember correctly pretty much say that farmville is the only reason its anywhere close. So those numbers are fundamentally flawed and looking at physical (because digital don't have clear numbers) copies right now is all we've got and I've never seen businesses hide numbers that were positive. I also never seen where numbers were hidden in quarterlies either way thats conjecture and by all measurements we have it shows that the pc market being a mere 8% of the video game market is not an unreasonable conclusion. One can also surmise from that information that eventually the market being so small, and so ridden with problems will hasten its demise because right now looking at it from a business standpoint there is no real reason to even bother with the platform. I could make more money making two console games then making a console game and a pc port.
There's nothing like a suit pushing his mainstream consumerist agenda. Becaues everything he talked about is a product of the 21st century; gamepads, playing socially in your lounge, consoles...
...and some people actually believe this kind of crap.
Some people play on consoles exclusively. Some people play on PCs exclusively. Some people play on both. Some people only have a Mac (the redheaded bastard stepchild in this discussion).
I hate using red because its so bright but I guess this maybe a little easier to read. That is fine but from a business standpoint the people who play on both canabilzie their own value. Either way its not helping the pc market.
I've been around for a long time. I remember when games could only be played on a tabletop, a console, a hand held, or at an arcade; because there wasn't such a thing as a PC. I remember when mac dominated early computer gaming because Macs were far easier for devs to deal with spec wise. I remember when mice were after market devices for PCs; only used when precision was needed (like CAD). I remember looking at a Gateway 2000 catalog and seeing a $2.5k price tag for a 286 and about the same price for a Dell!
The argument that because consoles have set specs and are therefore easier for devs to work with is a true statement. But if that were the whole of it why is it then that almost no games are made for the mac anymore? Macs have the same limitations as consoles, yet almost no games are made with the mac in mind. This calls into question the whole of the argument that because consoles are easier to program for, consoles will win. If that were true, then Macs would have already long since beaten PCs.
The problem with mac is alot like the pc piracy is a big issue and the mac is such a small amount of the market. I'd assume if pc is 8% of the video game market mac was like 4%. So in a business sense how is it worth it to cater to such a small audience but have such a high privacy risk?
Sales. Why would you limit sales to only "hardcore" games. Casual gaming is exploding both in terms of revenue generated, and titles available. So leaving casual gaming out of the sales data is the equivalent of leaving out after market sales of console devices like Bluetooth headsets or wireless controllers. I bet those weren't left out, were they? There are lots of casual type games for consoles too, are you going to leave the sales of those games out of your sales figures as well? If you are going to look at sales figures then only when you look at all the numbers do you gain a full understanding of what is really happening. To leave something out because, you personally don't care for it; is what some would call "spin". I call for what it is: lies based on ignorance.
Because besides the two simple reasons given above they also require less to make and they will always be there for their ease to produce and the lack of demands. Consoles also don't really have the same equivalent as there is no market for it. Of all the games I played on my ps3 closest thing to it would be this game that I was running from some horror movie cliche guy and I know it didn't sell well on the ps store. I don't consider those types of games to be dependent on platform I would consider their platform to be broswer games and the hidden object games usually are for both mac and pc.
I didn't watch the video, really after reading the discussion I don't need to. He's a securities analyst for gods sake, why are you people even giving this the time of day? Or did you forget this lovely quote: "That incident was a great example of what a whiny group gamers are in general," saying that "[game publisher Electronic Arts] handled it fine."
For all you that are defending him I just have this to say: LOL!
if it is as true as you say then prove it with facts not hyperbole.
Originally posted by goldtoof Gow is not a first person shooter, it an over the shoulder shooter. A camera style that works fine on a tv, but is awful when up close on a monitor.
Youngsters may impulse buy more. But older people have more money.
I'll take your word for it honestly to me GoW 2 is crap but apparently there is a huge market for it. Either way I've seen plenty of games with horrible fits for pc come to pc in its more elaborate years I fail to see that same due dilligence to cater to the market. the second part is all fine and dandy but business people are not going to care unless that is going into video games at an increased rate and indies will be too concerned with piracy. I've already witnessed how many parents bend backwards for their kids financially. I'll just state that as an assumption as I don't really care enough to look up studies or anything I'd just say that I'd be really suprised if older gamers (even though I don't think this is fair I'm saying 30 to 49) buy more video games a year than the 18 to 29 age group.
I guess the guy does not know how to plug an HDMI cable into his PC and then his TV. Add an xbox controller and your in business.
I have been doing that for years. Granted many games need a kb/m but games like Skyrim, Batman AA/AC, FC3, Crysis series ect. all on my pc played on my lcd TV with far far superior graphics.
WTF a router from pc to TV? My " router" is called an HDMI cable dumbass.
Originally posted by Livnthedream Lol. So much butthurt. Whether he is a douchebag or not is immaterial, he is absolutely right. But hey guys, denigrate him and continue to believe that you magically know more.
I wouldn't say he's absolutely right, but he makes a few good points. Some PC gamers do tend to act as if the keyboard & mouse is completely without flaws, even though several game genres (action / adventure, platformers, racing, 'arcadey' flight sims) are definitely best played with a controller. Furthermore controllers are becoming more precise with every iteration, and they will someday match the speed and precision of a mouse.Someone does need to tell him that an Xbox 360 controller works splendidly with a PC, and that hooking up to a TV is as simple as plugging in an HDMI cable. Oh, and that the Steambox will have that streaming capability he's talking about. Hell, an Xbox 360 can receive photos & video from a PC for playback (great for Netflix).
Speaking strictly for me, I prefer PC over console for a few reasons: 1) WASD beats out a thumb stick where your thumb rests on it at a 30 degree angle. So I have to unnaturally move my thumb to go straight in any axis direction. I tend to swerve a lot when playing.
2) I use a simple 3 button mouse instead having 6 fingers on 4 buttons 1 stick and 4 more buttons for 1 thumb. I just do not have the manual dexterity for individual finger manipulation, nor do I want to.
3) My PC hooks up to my 55" TV just fine. Ever hear of wireless mouse/keyboard combos with the PC sitting next to the TV using an HDMI cable? My TV also has network access. If I can figure out how to get my PC to see it, I may be able to throw the video onto it
4) Storage. 4TB HDD are not that expensive. What do consoles have for storage?
5) 32GB RAM is easily do-able.
6) Modular Upgradability. When technology makes a big leap forward, easily upgraded.
7) No extra internet/online play costs.
8) Better (in my opinion) selection of games to play.
9) More versatility. I can write docs, do spreadsheets, work with databases, be creative on my PC. Not so on a console.
10) I blame consoles for upping the cost of games. Before consoles started charging $60 for their games, PC games were about $30.
No, for me consoles have no future and never will. Is that guy a console manufacturer perchance?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
From which mystical orrifice are you pulling this "pcs are a tiny sliver of the gaming market", "fact" from?
Pc is the largest platform for games sales and has been for a good 6 years or so.
ok this is real easy to debunk lets look at sales. lets look at top pc only games
Civilization 5 global record of 1.5 mil physical (according to VGChartz) lets be nice and say another 1.5 mil bought from dd even if we're being nice about it lets assume that it made 1.5 from steam and another 1.5 from other dd sites.
Now lets take Black Ops 2 from the console crowd which was also released on the pc. Lets look at ps3 sales the number of north america almost trumps the magically inflated number I created for Civ 5 just in North america vs Civ 5's global. That is one system out of the main two now mind you vgchartz don't count digital sales which is why I overinflated the number for civ 5 to compensate but it also doesn't count ps store and xbox live purchases. The only game that even comes close is World of Warcraft where there is an acutal advantage to buy multiple copies (can make multiple accounts for those that are into that type of thing).
The only way you can count it as the biggest platform is if as a poster above cited (as its commonly done) you include casual and facebook games. If you have evidence to the contrary feel free to add but till then I guess the "mystical orifice" is right.
The PC market is more than big enough to justify its continued existence, thank you very much.
I'm looking for evidence not hyperbole. let me show you the ropes here. Epic who made alot of their money on pc games and licensing their engine was more concerned with following console cycles for Unreal Engine 4.0 than pc Their priorities are listed here:
"[Unreal Engine 4.0] will exclusively target the next console generation, Microsoft's successor for the Xbox 360, Sony's successor for the Playstation 3 - and if Nintendo ships a machine with similar hardware specs, then that also. PCs will follow after that." - Epic Games Tim Sweeny
"Frankly we are linking ourselves to the PS4," he continues by saying that it’s a "driving beacon" for his company, despite the fact that Sony hasn’t given the company full details. "That’s probably the most important information that our company is missing."
"While PC hardware is in contestant flux, the consoles give developers a fixed window of constraints. And because Crytek games use high-tone graphics engines, they must start designing for the future."- Crytek’s Cevat Yerli
Epic Games Cliff Bleszinski decided not to release gears of war 2 on the pc citing piracy as a reason in this interview:
" Do you see the Xbox 360 as the main platform as opposed to the PC? During the whole Unreal time it was very much PC focused.
The PC right now is a fair amount different to what it was back in the day, with all the badly integrated video chips. Here's the problem right now; the person who is savvy enough to want to have a good PC to upgrade their video card, is a person who is savvy enough to know bit torrent to know all the elements so they can pirate software. Therefore, high-end videogames are suffering very much on the PC.
So piracy was a main point for you...
Right now, it makes sense for us to focus on Xbox 360 for a number of reasons. Not least PCs with multiple configurations and piracy.
But when the dust has settled, is there any possibility of Gears 2 on PC?
No.
Definitely not?
No. "
I don't understand, is that suppose to prove the PC is dead as a viable market? Is it suppose to prove that the console is the superior platform? Is it suppose to prove that console gaming is superior to pc gaming? I'm not seeing it. As long as I keep getting the games I want on the PC, I could care less what happens with the console market. They exist to cater to two very different audiences and I'm not sure why people come up with this contrived competition between the two.
Piracy exists for any kind of digital media, PC certainly doesn't corner that market.
Is it the controller that makes the console market or is it the games they tend to make? What if consoles had decided to go with mouse and keyboard from the beginning, something tells me it would still crush the market because it makes the kinds of games that brain dead people want and because it's a dirt cheap platform compared to PC gaming. There is more than enough to go around for both platforms (the market is why they both exist in the first place) and people like you and the guy in the video are needlessly beating a dead horse.
You realize that the console market began before the mouse was invented right? You know, way back in the day before such control was needed.
Originally posted by Vorthanion
The PC market is more than big enough to justify its continued existence, thank you very much.
No one here has questioned that. Pc's do certainly fill a niche. There is zero doubt about that. Attempting to argue that the pc is some kind of monolithic leader though is foolish as there is zero evidence to support it. If you have some, or even a logical argument based on observation please present it. I too would like more support for the pc.
Yes, I owned an Atari 2600 and it used a joystick, not a controller. Whether the mouse came after or before isn't the point, is it. Not sure where you got the conclusion from my statements that I was arguing the superiority of the PC or the mouse. I was merely pointing out that both platforms exist primarily because of the audience they are targeting and the hardware they use. It doesn't mean nor infer that one is better than the other.
I find this need for some gamers and developers to blend the platforms rather troublesome and frankly, counter productive.
They all have different numbers, but what they have in common is that PC and console gaming revenues are close in value with PC gaming on the rise.
Get these fact out of here making the cousolbros mad.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Never, A thumb on a knob will never be as precise as a mouse period.
What leads you to believe that the general market cares about precision?
Its not the knob , its your finger, your thumb while strong doesn't have the ease of motion that your hand does. your index finger actually is suprior in this way if they had knobs on the backside of controllers you might see accuracy increases.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
There is nothing "insulting" or "ignorant" whatsoever about this video. It's actually quite brilliant.
I could say otherwise about this post though...
The insulting part is this; "You guys need to get with the 21st century and learn how to play a game with game-controller, and since you're never gonna give up your keyboard and mouse you're probably a cramped little dweeb sitting in a dark room..." Oh no, not insulting or ignorant in the least, it's just fact that everyone who plays on a PC is too retarded to plug in an xbox or ps3 controller...
The ignorant part is where he obviously doesn't know that people have been playing on their PC in the living-room for many years now. Or the fact that he seems to think that the industry at large doesn't like the PC platform.
Uhm... he never said any of that. He said PC Gamers have an asinine superiority complex, which is true. PC Gamers think their God for some reason, when in fact their most likely "cramped little dweebs sitting in a dark room..."
"Oh my computer gets better graphics than your console, that makes me better than you."
PC Gamers share this mentality which really reflects on their self-worth, which is 0.
Oh, this is one of those doom of PC gaming threads right?
*sits back with a drink*
Just like all those that people claimed would happen in the early 2000's?
Anyways, I prefer my gaming with freedom and options, thank you very much. And the Consoles have a grip on your throat for content, in what you can and can't do, and only with stuff the publishers shovel out their behinds for your consumption only.
The different platforms have their advantages and disadvantages. There's more nuances to PC gaming, but you have broader options and freedom. With Consoles, the same blessing of hard set hardware and system specs is also its very same limitation, not to mention very tight control on your games.
Anyways, when the PS4 and new XBox hit, they will be fine platforms. It's just that when they release, they will be years behind in what PCs can already do
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Oh, this is one of those doom of PC gaming threads right?
*sits back with a drink*
Just like all those that people claimed would happen in the early 2000's?
Anyways, I prefer my gaming with freedom and options, thank you very much. And the Consoles have a grip on your throat for content, in what you can and can't do, and only with stuff the publishers shovel out their behinds for your consumption only.
The different platforms have their advantages and disadvantages. There's more nuances to PC gaming, but you have broader options and freedom. With Consoles, the same blessing of hard set hardware and system specs is also its very same limitation, not to mention very tight control on your games.
Anyways, when the PS4 and new XBox hit, they will be fine platforms. It's just that when they release, they will be years behind in what PCs can already do
Pretty much this. Admittedly, the lack of flexibility of consoles can still be appealing, as it means that the game for it WILL run because it's made for it. But that's just shallow reasoning.
Is everyone overlooking League of Legends? League of Legends has more players than any game on the market currently. They make more money off that one game than any other company makes off 2 or 3. Did you guys forget about Starcraft 2? National Sport of Korea? The Diablo series? Diablo 3 just came to console and has had NO WHERE near as many sales as the pc version. I am not here to say that consoles are bad. It's just really hard to say that PC gaming is going downhill when companies like Asus are spending tons of money to develop these cheaper top notch gaming laptops/desktops. Nvidia is growing out of control. A new MMO comes out for PC every other month. That does NOT sound like PC gaming is going down hill. If the controller becomes a problem PC gaming will adjust the controller to whatever works. It is really that simple. Remember that the Xbox is by microsoft and 90% of the computers in the world use microsoft windows. The guy in the video is obviously showing a bias and trying to back it up with facts. People were saying PC gaming was dead 6 years ago too, right now the market is bigger than ever.
The whole piracy debate is just a joke. Try to pirate a copy of League of Legends please. Try to pirate FFARR. It requires more work than it's worth and that is the way the games industry will move to avoid piracy. I don't know, it just seems that anytime someone comes out and says something is going to go away, they should have some hard numbers to show. Banks are still lending to game companies to make pc games, that means that for the next 10 years at least they expect PC games to be making significant money.
F2P and cash shops and $15 a month to play is whats killing PC games. Hard to enjoy playing a game when you have to sit and wonder about how much its going to cost in the end. With consoles theres DLC but its not required.
Originally posted by travamars F2P and cash shops and $15 a month to play is whats killing PC games. Hard to enjoy playing a game when you have to sit and wonder about how much its going to cost in the end. With consoles theres DLC but its not required.
F2P, Cash Shops, and Subscriptions are not killing PC games. They're different flavors of the MMORPG genre that everyone playing in it will have varying likes & dislikes between them. When you get out of MMORPGs, you don't really see those.
Also, DLCs are everywhere regardless of platform, and they still all suffer from developer cheese tactics of Day 1 DLC. Regardless of platform.
Not to mention, PC games are the quintessential home for game mods to wring out even more life out of a game. To add features to it or even total conversions, such as the one that turned BF2142 into a Star Wars game a while back (First Strike). Hell, I've bought older games just to try some fancy mod I ran across. You just cannot do that on consoles. The console industry has a death grip on content. You will only enjoy what they squeeze out of their buttcracks, and you will feed on it, and you will pay for it.
PC game modders have been providing free mods to fellow gamers as fans. Some are quite bad, some have been utterly wonderful and a perfect excuse to buy the full fledged game just to play it. Either way, you support other gamers as well as the developers by buying the title to begin with.
You just cannot see that kind of freedom in the consoles. Maybe there's 1, 2 out there that try that I'm not aware of, but the console industry as a whole despises that.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Comments
a couple of points to consider:
Some people play on consoles exclusively. Some people play on PCs exclusively. Some people play on both. Some people only have a Mac (the redheaded bastard stepchild in this discussion).
I've been around for a long time. I remember when games could only be played on a tabletop, a console, a hand held, or at an arcade; because there wasn't such a thing as a PC. I remember when mac dominated early computer gaming because Macs were far easier for devs to deal with spec wise. I remember when mice were after market devices for PCs; only used when precision was needed (like CAD). I remember looking at a Gateway 2000 catalog and seeing a $2.5k price tag for a 286 and about the same price for a Dell!
The argument that because consoles have set specs and are therefore easier for devs to work with is a true statement. But if that were the whole of it why is it then that almost no games are made for the mac anymore? Macs have the same limitations as consoles, yet almost no games are made with the mac in mind. This calls into question the whole of the argument that because consoles are easier to program for, consoles will win. If that were true, then Macs would have already long since beaten PCs.
Sales. Why would you limit sales to only "hardcore" games. Casual gaming is exploding both in terms of revenue generated, and titles available. So leaving casual gaming out of the sales data is the equivalent of leaving out after market sales of console devices like Bluetooth headsets or wireless controllers. I bet those weren't left out, were they? There are lots of casual type games for consoles too, are you going to leave the sales of those games out of your sales figures as well? If you are going to look at sales figures then only when you look at all the numbers do you gain a full understanding of what is really happening. To leave something out because, you personally don't care for it; is what some would call "spin". I call for what it is: lies based on ignorance.
I didn't watch the video, really after reading the discussion I don't need to. He's a securities analyst for gods sake, why are you people even giving this the time of day? Or did you forget this lovely quote: "That incident was a great example of what a whiny group gamers are in general," saying that "[game publisher Electronic Arts] handled it fine."
For all you that are defending him I just have this to say: LOL!
Well let me address each point quite easily:
A) Gears Of War 2 is exactly the type of game that would sell well on a pc as first person shooters in general are very lucrative compared to other genres on pc. Go to unity3d.com and see how many people are making pc only fps clones with no real distinction. Hell most would even claim fps was born on pc's either way fps sell well everywhere which I personally find sad because there is only a few I could say were anything near innovative or my cup of tea but again I'm not everybody and I realize that.
C) Oh yes I do have my more "nerdy games" on pc and I love them and I realize they're not general enough to appeal to the masses and that is exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying. Piracy as well as the multiple hardware configurations are killing pc and I want it to be a haven for all that. Honestly with how companies are acting I'd love the future I prescribed earlier where the big companies retreat to consoles and indies take over pc but there is a big problem. When big companies leave the pc {and I'm sorry but I posted many examples where they have either show that they have their eye on the door (ue4 putting most of its resources to next gen development, major franchises pulling out of pc ports like glow) } that will wildly reduce the number of potential customers and make it an unattractive platform which from a game development standpoint it is already. As evidenced by the games you pointed at that compared to common console ports have real paltry numbers.
D) This goes back to what I was saying before but lets go back to the Dwayne and Scott situation. The current pc market is expecting that companies will stick around and cater to Scott's high dollar, obsessive interests as opposed to Dwayne's who is much easier to satisfy. Now take that situation and add a robbery ring that eats up 90% of sales and you have the current status of the pc market. For the niche games to exist we need more people that don't want to play those games. Why? because even if they are unlikely to purchase that type of game it is a potential buy.
E) Finally as this seems to be taking a turn towards a taste war and conjecture let me clarify some points. I don't like fps and most console games I'm one of those people who buys alot more pc than console. As an example of mmorpg tastes I love the secret world, champions online, which all are niche games. I have more games for my computer than I do for console since my console hayday was playstation 2 and I find alot of the modern games as just lacking a sense of soul. With that said it doesn't take away from the fact that from a business stand point Micheal Pachter is right and the refusal to acknowledge the problems in this market will just lead to it being a game graveyard similar to mac (although it is getting much better for them in the last few years). There is rampant piracy problems and because of that the pc is an unattractive platform that only really gets used in cases where all other options are already exhausted, the complexity of the game warrants the control system afforded by pcs, the other options aren't accessible. Without addressing the piracy problem there will be no market for pc games does that mean its happening tomorrow? no will it happen in the next 5 years? possibly but instead of waiting for that dead end to come up we need to address the problem now.
Again I love pen and paper rpgs but honestly they didn't really address the problems inherent in that market and we see where that industry is now.
that is your opinion and until they provide numbers either way we can't say for sure. I honestly feel as though your vastly over-exaggerating the pc audience and the members of stream and honestly I don't feel the company is unbiased enough to go off their press release numbers.
Well I really don't care what the official definition is but I think comparing civ 5 as I referred to previously and farmville in the same sentence doesn't work and similarly games where you're finding the hidden object in the static image. Both types have the same problems which don't put them in the same league as civ 5 for example.
- no initial hardware cost
-Very little user interaction
so as an example a poster above used a chart that I feel is very misleading it shows pc revenue being higher than consoles. I check the link and I forget the specifics but it basically states that what is inflating the number to that level is farmville. They even if I remember correctly pretty much say that farmville is the only reason its anywhere close. So those numbers are fundamentally flawed and looking at physical (because digital don't have clear numbers) copies right now is all we've got and I've never seen businesses hide numbers that were positive. I also never seen where numbers were hidden in quarterlies either way thats conjecture and by all measurements we have it shows that the pc market being a mere 8% of the video game market is not an unreasonable conclusion. One can also surmise from that information that eventually the market being so small, and so ridden with problems will hasten its demise because right now looking at it from a business standpoint there is no real reason to even bother with the platform. I could make more money making two console games then making a console game and a pc port.
There's nothing like a suit pushing his mainstream consumerist agenda. Becaues everything he talked about is a product of the 21st century; gamepads, playing socially in your lounge, consoles...
...and some people actually believe this kind of crap.
Youngsters may impulse buy more. But older people have more money.
I'll take your word for it honestly to me GoW 2 is crap but apparently there is a huge market for it. Either way I've seen plenty of games with horrible fits for pc come to pc in its more elaborate years I fail to see that same due dilligence to cater to the market. the second part is all fine and dandy but business people are not going to care unless that is going into video games at an increased rate and indies will be too concerned with piracy. I've already witnessed how many parents bend backwards for their kids financially. I'll just state that as an assumption as I don't really care enough to look up studies or anything I'd just say that I'd be really suprised if older gamers (even though I don't think this is fair I'm saying 30 to 49) buy more video games a year than the 18 to 29 age group.
I guess the guy does not know how to plug an HDMI cable into his PC and then his TV. Add an xbox controller and your in business.
I have been doing that for years. Granted many games need a kb/m but games like Skyrim, Batman AA/AC, FC3, Crysis series ect. all on my pc played on my lcd TV with far far superior graphics.
WTF a router from pc to TV? My " router" is called an HDMI cable dumbass.
1) WASD beats out a thumb stick where your thumb rests on it at a 30 degree angle. So I have to unnaturally move my thumb to go straight in any axis direction. I tend to swerve a lot when playing.
2) I use a simple 3 button mouse instead having 6 fingers on 4 buttons 1 stick and 4 more buttons for 1 thumb. I just do not have the manual dexterity for individual finger manipulation, nor do I want to.
3) My PC hooks up to my 55" TV just fine. Ever hear of wireless mouse/keyboard combos with the PC sitting next to the TV using an HDMI cable? My TV also has network access. If I can figure out how to get my PC to see it, I may be able to throw the video onto it
4) Storage. 4TB HDD are not that expensive. What do consoles have for storage?
5) 32GB RAM is easily do-able.
6) Modular Upgradability. When technology makes a big leap forward, easily upgraded.
7) No extra internet/online play costs.
8) Better (in my opinion) selection of games to play.
9) More versatility. I can write docs, do spreadsheets, work with databases, be creative on my PC. Not so on a console.
10) I blame consoles for upping the cost of games. Before consoles started charging $60 for their games, PC games were about $30.
No, for me consoles have no future and never will. Is that guy a console manufacturer perchance?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I don't understand, is that suppose to prove the PC is dead as a viable market? Is it suppose to prove that the console is the superior platform? Is it suppose to prove that console gaming is superior to pc gaming? I'm not seeing it. As long as I keep getting the games I want on the PC, I could care less what happens with the console market. They exist to cater to two very different audiences and I'm not sure why people come up with this contrived competition between the two.
Piracy exists for any kind of digital media, PC certainly doesn't corner that market.
Yes, I owned an Atari 2600 and it used a joystick, not a controller. Whether the mouse came after or before isn't the point, is it. Not sure where you got the conclusion from my statements that I was arguing the superiority of the PC or the mouse. I was merely pointing out that both platforms exist primarily because of the audience they are targeting and the hardware they use. It doesn't mean nor infer that one is better than the other.
I find this need for some gamers and developers to blend the platforms rather troublesome and frankly, counter productive.
Get these fact out of here making the cousolbros mad.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Its not the knob , its your finger, your thumb while strong doesn't have the ease of motion that your hand does. your index finger actually is suprior in this way if they had knobs on the backside of controllers you might see accuracy increases.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Uhm... he never said any of that. He said PC Gamers have an asinine superiority complex, which is true. PC Gamers think their God for some reason, when in fact their most likely "cramped little dweebs sitting in a dark room..."
"Oh my computer gets better graphics than your console, that makes me better than you."
PC Gamers share this mentality which really reflects on their self-worth, which is 0.
Oh, this is one of those doom of PC gaming threads right?
*sits back with a drink*
Just like all those that people claimed would happen in the early 2000's?
Anyways, I prefer my gaming with freedom and options, thank you very much. And the Consoles have a grip on your throat for content, in what you can and can't do, and only with stuff the publishers shovel out their behinds for your consumption only.
The different platforms have their advantages and disadvantages. There's more nuances to PC gaming, but you have broader options and freedom. With Consoles, the same blessing of hard set hardware and system specs is also its very same limitation, not to mention very tight control on your games.
Anyways, when the PS4 and new XBox hit, they will be fine platforms. It's just that when they release, they will be years behind in what PCs can already do
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Pretty much this. Admittedly, the lack of flexibility of consoles can still be appealing, as it means that the game for it WILL run because it's made for it. But that's just shallow reasoning.
Nothing wrong with that video.
F2P gamers are castaways.
Discuss. Reason. Society.
Become a Dragon. Take your world back.
Is everyone overlooking League of Legends? League of Legends has more players than any game on the market currently. They make more money off that one game than any other company makes off 2 or 3. Did you guys forget about Starcraft 2? National Sport of Korea? The Diablo series? Diablo 3 just came to console and has had NO WHERE near as many sales as the pc version. I am not here to say that consoles are bad. It's just really hard to say that PC gaming is going downhill when companies like Asus are spending tons of money to develop these cheaper top notch gaming laptops/desktops. Nvidia is growing out of control. A new MMO comes out for PC every other month. That does NOT sound like PC gaming is going down hill. If the controller becomes a problem PC gaming will adjust the controller to whatever works. It is really that simple. Remember that the Xbox is by microsoft and 90% of the computers in the world use microsoft windows. The guy in the video is obviously showing a bias and trying to back it up with facts. People were saying PC gaming was dead 6 years ago too, right now the market is bigger than ever.
The whole piracy debate is just a joke. Try to pirate a copy of League of Legends please. Try to pirate FFARR. It requires more work than it's worth and that is the way the games industry will move to avoid piracy. I don't know, it just seems that anytime someone comes out and says something is going to go away, they should have some hard numbers to show. Banks are still lending to game companies to make pc games, that means that for the next 10 years at least they expect PC games to be making significant money.
I was in a position to see what i wanted to get . PS4, Xbone, or upgrade PC.
now i didnt go by what service they had or what tech was in the systems.
I went by which games where on the PC as the other 2.
The release games i looked at 26 games for the PS4 and XBone
and i found that only 6 games didn't release on the PC.
a few exclusives from Xbone is coming on PC as well.
Games are dead on PC i think not.
I ended up . upgrading my PC.
Oh what do i use for gaming on PC.
Logitech F710 if i want a controller . And of course K/M
ASUS G74sx
i7 quad core
16gb ddr3 ram
3gb ram Nvidia 560M
240GB SSD & 750GB
F2P, Cash Shops, and Subscriptions are not killing PC games. They're different flavors of the MMORPG genre that everyone playing in it will have varying likes & dislikes between them. When you get out of MMORPGs, you don't really see those.
Also, DLCs are everywhere regardless of platform, and they still all suffer from developer cheese tactics of Day 1 DLC. Regardless of platform.
Not to mention, PC games are the quintessential home for game mods to wring out even more life out of a game. To add features to it or even total conversions, such as the one that turned BF2142 into a Star Wars game a while back (First Strike). Hell, I've bought older games just to try some fancy mod I ran across. You just cannot do that on consoles. The console industry has a death grip on content. You will only enjoy what they squeeze out of their buttcracks, and you will feed on it, and you will pay for it.
PC game modders have been providing free mods to fellow gamers as fans. Some are quite bad, some have been utterly wonderful and a perfect excuse to buy the full fledged game just to play it. Either way, you support other gamers as well as the developers by buying the title to begin with.
You just cannot see that kind of freedom in the consoles. Maybe there's 1, 2 out there that try that I'm not aware of, but the console industry as a whole despises that.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)