Faction differences.

Julkula · October 2013

Will different faction have unique classes, talents and gameplay ?

Or will each faction have same classes +1 unique for each ?

Or will everything be mirrored (like wow and swtor) ?

Did not find anything to my questions around internet so decided to make thread. Sorry.

Sovrath · October 2013

All the same except for the racials.

It's basically a "suggested" class system where you can add different skills.

Julkula · October 2013

Damn. Why did they ruin such a good opportunity? Faction differences would've bought some interesting aspects to pvp. Well I hope racials will be very diverse and meaningful.

Iselin · October 2013

I liked that about DAoC... each faction had distinct flavors. But then again there was all that whining about faction X having an advantage because they had class Y.

Even in Warhamenr online where the classes were similar but slightly different, the whining about the Shaman being better than the Archmage never stopped.

I don't blame developers of PVP - centric games side-stepping that perceived faction imbalance issue by making them the same.

But yeah, it would have been nice.

goldtoof · October 2013

Yeah but I fuels the conflict, everyone thinks the other faction is op.

Lord.Bachus · October 2013

every race gets its own skilltree.... so there are faction differences.. 3 races/faction..

Its mostly a skilltree system... classes are just a little part of it, there is no need to change these classes.

Maybe some spells /skills things can only be learned in a certain area, which would mean one faction can learn them much earlier.

Sleepyfish · October 2013

From what I have read about it so far the only faction differences will be lore fluff. As for racials so far they have put out that there will be 5 abilities and from reading into it it appears at least two of those abilities will be almost identical to every other race an exp boost and a resistance racial. So I imagine the other ones will be a low level regen or heal, weapon specific bonus and or some kind of racial taunt. However money says in a RVR pve centric game that for balance reasons those abilities will probably be PVE only or totally useless in pvp in later levels at least.

http://elderscrollsonline.info/skills/racial-skills

HoiPoloi · October 2013

Identical classes are far better for PvP balance. This is indisputable. You only have to look at Warhammer to see that. It is the norm too in most competitive FPS games.

Racial skills are effective enough though that they will give a fair amount of flavour to faction differences.

goldtoof · October 2013

Identical classes are boring for pvp. You only have to look at gw2 to see that.

Julkula · October 2013

Still must give it a try. 3 faction pvp sounds interesting. And hopefully good racials give some flavor. One thing I fear that it will be sameking of boring gear grinding like in wow.

goldtoof · November 2013

Pvp went downhill in wow when they gave alliance shamans and horde paladins. All the whine before about "op paladins" and "op shamans" was great for incentivising pvp and getting people in the mood to fight the other side.

That's one of the biggest problems in gw2, all 3 sides are the same, they are fighting "just because magic"

Eol- · November 2013

Originally posted by HoiPoloi
Identical classes are far better for PvP balance. This is indisputable. You only have to look at Warhammer to see that. It is the norm too in most competitive FPS games.

Racial skills are effective enough though that they will give a fair amount of flavour to faction differences.

I absolutely agree. It looks like the racial skills are pretty significant, so that alone will cause a very big difference in the classes we see across the races, for example, Bosmer archers, Orc heavy melee, Altmer mages, etc etc. Gving different classes and skills to different realms just makes playbalance exponentially more difficult. Yes DAoC had different classes across the realms, but there were huge imbalance issues that went along with that. Much easier to give the alliance the same classes and let racials provide a modest difference that gives flavor. Also its much easier to tone the racial skills up or down than it is to redesign and rebalance classes across realms... not even to mention the difficulty of balancing classes for pvp and pve at the same time.

Eol- · November 2013

Originally posted by goldtoof
Identical classes are boring for pvp. You only have to look at gw2 to see that.

does GW2 give classes a choice of armor and weapon and guild, each of which gives specific skills? This game will have so much more flexibility, so that any two Dragonknights or Templars can have very different skills and playstyles. Its not going to be the same old 'oh that guy is in chainmail, he must be a cleric healer'. In a lot of ways, choice of 'class' in ESO will have a lot less to do with playstyles than will choice of armor and weapon.

The bottom line is that, while yes the alliances will have the same choice of classes and armor and weapons, the fact that racials are different coupled with the huge flexibility in classes can make the playstyles very different. I can see a Redguard playing a Templar with heavy armor and sword/shield, while a Bosmer plays a Templar with medium armor and a bow. Yes they are both Templars but their playstyles will be very different.

Sleepyfish · November 2013

Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by goldtoof
Identical classes are boring for pvp. You only have to look at gw2 to see that.

does GW2 give classes a choice of armor and weapon and guild, each of which gives specific skills? This game will have so much more flexibility, so that any two Dragonknights or Templars can have very different skills and playstyles. Its not going to be the same old 'oh that guy is in chainmail, he must be a cleric healer'. In a lot of ways, choice of 'class' in ESO will have a lot less to do with playstyles than will choice of armor and weapon.

The bottom line is that, while yes the alliances will have the same choice of classes and armor and weapons, the fact that racials are different coupled with the huge flexibility in classes can make the playstyles very different. I can see a Redguard playing a Templar with heavy armor and sword/shield, while a Bosmer plays a Templar with medium armor and a bow. Yes they are both Templars but their playstyles will be very different.

Yes it does on every count. So does most every other mmo as well. The problem with GW2 and this game so far from what I can tell is not different classes and different skills. But that those classes, weapons and skills are so homogenized that all that is separating them is animations and damage type tags. So far every class in ESO all 4 of them can do things the other classes can do, all apparently will have a stealth ability and I imagine a heal as well. All can use different weapons which come with default attacks. That just sounds like a different slant on GW2 style homogenization not anything drastically different. If anything it has far less class choice and even more homogenization.

Also there is almost no game in existence where racial abilities were/are relevant.

artemisentr4 · November 2013

Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by goldtoof
Identical classes are boring for pvp. You only have to look at gw2 to see that.

does GW2 give classes a choice of armor and weapon and guild, each of which gives specific skills? This game will have so much more flexibility, so that any two Dragonknights or Templars can have very different skills and playstyles. Its not going to be the same old 'oh that guy is in chainmail, he must be a cleric healer'. In a lot of ways, choice of 'class' in ESO will have a lot less to do with playstyles than will choice of armor and weapon.

The bottom line is that, while yes the alliances will have the same choice of classes and armor and weapons, the fact that racials are different coupled with the huge flexibility in classes can make the playstyles very different. I can see a Redguard playing a Templar with heavy armor and sword/shield, while a Bosmer plays a Templar with medium armor and a bow. Yes they are both Templars but their playstyles will be very different.

Yes it does on every count. So does most every other mmo as well. The problem with GW2 and this game so far from what I can tell is not different classes and different skills. But that those classes, weapons and skills are so homogenized that all that is separating them is animations and damage type tags. So far every class in ESO all 4 of them can do things the other classes can do, all apparently will have a stealth ability and I imagine a heal as well. All can use different weapons which come with default attacks. That just sounds like a different slant on GW2 style homogenization not anything drastically different. If anything it has far less class choice and even more homogenization.

Also there is almost no game in existence where racial abilities were/are relevant.

In GW2 you are locked into an armor type and weapon type based on class. In ESO you are not locked into anything but your base skill choices.

If I want to be a Redgaurd Templar, I will have a racial that increased my sword and board. So I will go with a Paladin type of Templar with a sword and board. But at the same time, I will also chose to use a destruction staff for range magic, join both the mage guild and fighter guild for more magic and undead fighting skills. I will go with 5 pieces of heavy armor and 2 light. And pull with magic, but fight up close.

If I am an Altmer Templar, I will have racials that increase destruction staff xp, my magicka will go up by 10% and my cold, fire and shock spells will have an increase in damage. I would look to go with 5 pieces of light armor and 2 heavy. Go with a destruction staff for magic and restoration for more of a pure priest build. Looking to fight at range most of the time.

Based on racial and choice, my play style will be very different. It will be the same with all the classes. I would like to see a mage with 2 pieces of heavy for chest and greaves, then 5 pieces of light for increased magic and go with a battlemage. You can take any class and make them into any type of play style just by choices made in what skills you take, find, develop along the way.

So yes, each faction will have the same base classes, but I doubt we will see every class playing the same way.

Eol- · November 2013

Originally posted by Sleepyfish
Originally posted by Eol-
Originally posted by goldtoof
Identical classes are boring for pvp. You only have to look at gw2 to see that.

does GW2 give classes a choice of armor and weapon and guild, each of which gives specific skills? This game will have so much more flexibility, so that any two Dragonknights or Templars can have very different skills and playstyles. Its not going to be the same old 'oh that guy is in chainmail, he must be a cleric healer'. In a lot of ways, choice of 'class' in ESO will have a lot less to do with playstyles than will choice of armor and weapon.

The bottom line is that, while yes the alliances will have the same choice of classes and armor and weapons, the fact that racials are different coupled with the huge flexibility in classes can make the playstyles very different. I can see a Redguard playing a Templar with heavy armor and sword/shield, while a Bosmer plays a Templar with medium armor and a bow. Yes they are both Templars but their playstyles will be very different.

Yes it does on every count. So does most every other mmo as well. The problem with GW2 and this game so far from what I can tell is not different classes and different skills. But that those classes, weapons and skills are so homogenized that all that is separating them is animations and damage type tags. So far every class in ESO all 4 of them can do things the other classes can do, all apparently will have a stealth ability and I imagine a heal as well. All can use different weapons which come with default attacks. That just sounds like a different slant on GW2 style homogenization not anything drastically different. If anything it has far less class choice and even more homogenization.

Also there is almost no game in existence where racial abilities were/are relevant.

Well all I can say is that most MMORPGs I have played have armor and weapon choice linked to class choice. Mages use staffs or sometimes swords and wear light armor, rogues use daggers or bows and wear leather armor, clerics use maces and chain armor, etc.

Also its not fair to say that every class in ESO can do the same stuff as the other classes. That's just not true. The class lines are very different. Yes some lines from different classes could be used to fill the same role, but the playstyles for those classes would be different.

Also its not true that all classes can heal. Basically there is a healing line in the Templar class, and heals from using a restoration staff weapon, and that's pretty much it except for minor, situation-specific heals.

Also the weapon lines are pretty different. Different weapon choices will have big differences in playstyles.

And finally ESO seems to have some of the strongest racial abilities I have seen in a mmorpg, very much like Elder Scrolls RPGs in fact. Look at those racials and tell me there wont be a ton of Altmer mages or Bosmer archers or Nord 2handers.

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Faction differences.

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Faction differences.

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