Vanguard imo was his last chance to use his name as a selling tool. He built a broken game that lucky for him soe bought and eventually gave up trying to salvage. Sorry, i wouldn't take the snake oil salesman word for it...he lost that trust already.
It seems to be the trend now that Has-been Devs, who cant get funded through standard investments because of their past failures, are now turning to Kickstarter to get $$$.
I guess they think that the MMO fanbase is just shortsighted and foolish enough to fall for it.
Despite all the hate he put out the best AAA MMORPG in the last 7 years.
Vanguard had a rough ride, not just from Brad. Microsoft changed CEOs and the new one didn't want an MMO being funded by the company. SOE picked up Sigil and then forced them to release 8 months ahead of schedule. I'm sure Brad didn't want to have to fire anyone.
At the end of the day, this man is the creative vision behind two of the most immersive and well designed MMOs in the genre's history, I'll play whatever he has to make.
And I find it weird that so many conflicting stories of what it was like in Sigil have cropped up to almost urban legend standing.
The only word I heard from confirmed Sigil employees was that there were too many super talented people with egos clashing constantly in the same company. No drugs, no "totalitarianism".
Feel free to donate all your cash. The reality is that the only reason eq1 had any impact was because it was basically the first 3d mmo with zero competition. As for vanguard it amazes me that anyone would be moronic enough to try to claim this as the best anything other than a steaming pile of bug ridden dung. It took $oe nearly a year simply to get it stable and somewhat playable. If it was even a "good" game it would have held 50k subs minimum as a niche game if nothing else. Instead it dropped to a few thousands with logins in the hundreds before ftp. If you are one of those hundreds that think it is the best thing since sliced bread thats great, but stop the nonsense about this being a great game.
Uh, but it is. It had some of the best lore, easily the best game world, best classes, the last MMO to try to innovative (diplomacy) amazing crafting and housing, flying mounts, the best dungeons, the list goes on.
I would like to think everyone should have a second-chance. I hope Brad has learned from any and all the mistakes surrounding Sigil and Vanguard (be he responsible or not).
As a gamer, I still want Brad to feel the sting for what happened with Vanguard as there were a lot of great, unrealized ideas behind the game.
However, as a fellow somebody, I would like him to have the opportunity to 'redeem' himself and be able to do it via something he loves. Whether he is as responsible as we've been lead to believe or not, I want to see him succeed. I've gotten the sense that he has a genuine love for the genre - and for that, I am optimistic (but cautious).
Personally I won't back his kickstarter just because he would have needed to have earned that trust. However, if he can make a good game (and yes Vanguard 2 would work for me) I would purchase it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by EndoRoboto Man alive MMO gamers are jaded. Maybe you guys need a new genre to complain about.
Tell that to the Sigil employees that were stiffed and fired in a parking lot. A parking lot.
Tell that to SOE who forced the game out 8 months ahead of schedule, the same week as Burning Crusade, and then shelved the game and never promoted it again?
Blame Brad all you want, but it doesn't make it relavent or true.
I will back up this game up to 100 percent. I do not care what people think. Vangard is one of the few games that you have to struggle to get something and can feel specia when you get it. Games made today are too simple and boring
Despite all the hate he put out the best AAA MMORPG in the last 7 years.
Vanguard had a rough ride, not just from Brad. Microsoft changed CEOs and the new one didn't want an MMO being funded by the company. SOE picked up Sigil and then forced them to release 8 months ahead of schedule. I'm sure Brad didn't want to have to fire anyone.
At the end of the day, this man is the creative vision behind two of the most immersive and well designed MMOs in the genre's history, I'll play whatever he has to make.
And I find it weird that so many conflicting stories of what it was like in Sigil have cropped up to almost urban legend standing.
The only word I heard from confirmed Sigil employees was that there were too many super talented people with egos clashing constantly in the same company. No drugs, no "totalitarianism".
Feel free to donate all your cash. The reality is that the only reason eq1 had any impact was because it was basically the first 3d mmo with zero competition. As for vanguard it amazes me that anyone would be moronic enough to try to claim this as the best anything other than a steaming pile of bug ridden dung. It took $oe nearly a year simply to get it stable and somewhat playable. If it was even a "good" game it would have held 50k subs minimum as a niche game if nothing else. Instead it dropped to a few thousands with logins in the hundreds before ftp. If you are one of those hundreds that think it is the best thing since sliced bread thats great, but stop the nonsense about this being a great game.
Uh, but it is. It had some of the best lore, easily the best game world, best classes, the last MMO to try to innovative (diplomacy) amazing crafting and housing, flying mounts, the best dungeons, the list goes on.
You can list all you want, great games arent ftp with 1 server barely populated. There have been numerous "win back" offers and the game is ftp for anyone with an interest to try and if you were on during ftp launch you would know that many did. The fact remains that the 1 server is barely populated and if it was 1/10 the game you claim it would have multiple servers packed with rabid fans.
Originally posted by EndoRoboto Man alive MMO gamers are jaded. Maybe you guys need a new genre to complain about.
Tell that to the Sigil employees that were stiffed and fired in a parking lot. A parking lot.
Tell that to SOE who forced the game out 8 months ahead of schedule, the same week as Burning Crusade, and then shelved the game and never promoted it again?
Blame Brad all you want, but it doesn't make it relavent or true.
The only reason $oe even got their demon spawned hands on it is due to the complete and total mismanagement by sigil. Sigil wasted so many millions and so much time due to incompetence MS had no choice but to drop the bug ridden mess.
The game is high fantasy and if you've played EQ 1 and/or Vanguard, you've got a general idea of what the game's about and what kind of...
In that case "TAKE MY MONEY!!!"
Considering I only subscribe to two mmo's, LOTRO and Vanguard and Vanguard, in my opinion, is better than LOTRO, a "Vanguard 2" minus "the suck" would be right up my alley.
You hear that Brad ... "minus the suck".
lol... Brad better be listening!
As far as "the suck", I would say it mostly goes to the performance issues. Nothing in my experience of playing Vanguard was particularly heinous gameplay-wise.
Originally posted by EndoRoboto Man alive MMO gamers are jaded. Maybe you guys need a new genre to complain about.
Tell that to the Sigil employees that were stiffed and fired in a parking lot. A parking lot.
Tell that to SOE who forced the game out 8 months ahead of schedule, the same week as Burning Crusade, and then shelved the game and never promoted it again?
Blame Brad all you want, but it doesn't make it relavent or true.
The only reason $oe even got their demon spawned hands on it is due to the complete and total mismanagement by sigil. Sigil wasted so many millions and so much time due to incompetence MS had no choice but to drop the bug ridden mess.
Wrong, actually.
All reports we have seen is that the game was not managed perfectly, true. But the reason Microsoft dropped them was because they changed CEOs and the new one wasn't interested in making MMOs. But I don't expect someone who spells SoE with $ to be rational..
Despite all the hate he put out the best AAA MMORPG in the last 7 years.
Vanguard had a rough ride, not just from Brad. Microsoft changed CEOs and the new one didn't want an MMO being funded by the company. SOE picked up Sigil and then forced them to release 8 months ahead of schedule. I'm sure Brad didn't want to have to fire anyone.
At the end of the day, this man is the creative vision behind two of the most immersive and well designed MMOs in the genre's history, I'll play whatever he has to make.
And I find it weird that so many conflicting stories of what it was like in Sigil have cropped up to almost urban legend standing.
The only word I heard from confirmed Sigil employees was that there were too many super talented people with egos clashing constantly in the same company. No drugs, no "totalitarianism".
Feel free to donate all your cash. The reality is that the only reason eq1 had any impact was because it was basically the first 3d mmo with zero competition. As for vanguard it amazes me that anyone would be moronic enough to try to claim this as the best anything other than a steaming pile of bug ridden dung. It took $oe nearly a year simply to get it stable and somewhat playable. If it was even a "good" game it would have held 50k subs minimum as a niche game if nothing else. Instead it dropped to a few thousands with logins in the hundreds before ftp. If you are one of those hundreds that think it is the best thing since sliced bread thats great, but stop the nonsense about this being a great game.
Uh, but it is. It had some of the best lore, easily the best game world, best classes, the last MMO to try to innovative (diplomacy) amazing crafting and housing, flying mounts, the best dungeons, the list goes on.
You can list all you want, great games arent ftp with 1 server barely populated.
When they aren't being actively developed, yes they are. Popularity is not a clear indication of quality, see, Justin Bieber, WoW, Call of Duty, ect.
Despite all the hate he put out the best AAA MMORPG in the last 7 years.
Vanguard had a rough ride, not just from Brad. Microsoft changed CEOs and the new one didn't want an MMO being funded by the company. SOE picked up Sigil and then forced them to release 8 months ahead of schedule. I'm sure Brad didn't want to have to fire anyone.
At the end of the day, this man is the creative vision behind two of the most immersive and well designed MMOs in the genre's history, I'll play whatever he has to make.
And I find it weird that so many conflicting stories of what it was like in Sigil have cropped up to almost urban legend standing.
The only word I heard from confirmed Sigil employees was that there were too many super talented people with egos clashing constantly in the same company. No drugs, no "totalitarianism".
Feel free to donate all your cash. The reality is that the only reason eq1 had any impact was because it was basically the first 3d mmo with zero competition. As for vanguard it amazes me that anyone would be moronic enough to try to claim this as the best anything other than a steaming pile of bug ridden dung. It took $oe nearly a year simply to get it stable and somewhat playable. If it was even a "good" game it would have held 50k subs minimum as a niche game if nothing else. Instead it dropped to a few thousands with logins in the hundreds before ftp. If you are one of those hundreds that think it is the best thing since sliced bread thats great, but stop the nonsense about this being a great game.
Uh, but it is. It had some of the best lore, easily the best game world, best classes, the last MMO to try to innovative (diplomacy) amazing crafting and housing, flying mounts, the best dungeons, the list goes on.
You can list all you want, great games arent ftp with 1 server barely populated.
When they aren't being actively developed, yes they are. Popularity is not a clear indication of quality, see, Justin Bieber, WoW, Call of Duty, ect.
You can say you like Vanguard but you can't call it "quality". The game has it's great points but quality is associated with polish and playability. The game is still pretty messy after all these years.
And WoW is still the most polished and high quality MMO that very few have come close to since then. Whether you like the gameplay or not.
Originally posted by EndoRoboto Man alive MMO gamers are jaded. Maybe you guys need a new genre to complain about.
Tell that to the Sigil employees that were stiffed and fired in a parking lot. A parking lot.
Tell that to SOE who forced the game out 8 months ahead of schedule, the same week as Burning Crusade, and then shelved the game and never promoted it again?
Blame Brad all you want, but it doesn't make it relavent or true.
The only reason $oe even got their demon spawned hands on it is due to the complete and total mismanagement by sigil. Sigil wasted so many millions and so much time due to incompetence MS had no choice but to drop the bug ridden mess.
Wrong, actually.
All reports we have seen is that the game was not managed perfectly, true. But the reason Microsoft dropped them was because they changed CEOs and the new one wasn't interested in making MMOs. But I don't expect someone who spells SoE with $ to be rational..
umm...you might want to check your facts too. SoE was merely publishing the game when it launched. In fact I think it was a "co-publishing" deal they didn't have any control over the game until after it launched. But a lot of people like to hate SoE and just blame them for everything.
Just like EA, if EA has their name on anything in ANY capacity it's their fault. Not the company that actually makes the game.
umm...you might want to check your facts too. SoE was merely publishing the game when it launched. In fact I think it was a "co-publishing" deal they didn't have any control over the game until after it launched. But a lot of people like to hate SoE and just blame them for everything.
Just like EA, if EA has their name on anything in ANY capacity it's their fault. Not the company that actually makes the game.
In a lot of cases it's the publisher (SOE or EA) who decide when a game ships, not the studio actually developing said game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Fendel84M I'm sorry, after Vanguard I wouldn't trust Brad to head a game. He needs someone to tie his ideas together and make it a stable reliable game.
I would agree with this. The studio was not managed well and the programming engine they chose was awful.
But despite the bugs and instability, its the only AAA MMO since 2004 that's held me more than a week. So polish counts for nothing when your gameplay blows. And yes, SoE pushed the game out, then bought it, then shelved it.
Originally posted by EndoRoboto Man alive MMO gamers are jaded. Maybe you guys need a new genre to complain about.
Tell that to the Sigil employees that were stiffed and fired in a parking lot. A parking lot.
Tell that to SOE who forced the game out 8 months ahead of schedule, the same week as Burning Crusade, and then shelved the game and never promoted it again?
Blame Brad all you want, but it doesn't make it relavent or true.
Vanguard was DOA no matter what soe did. If soe hadn't intervened and pumped their money into Vanguard, there would never have been a game released. Period. Sigil pissed away all the money MS gave them and soe only gave them enough to make it to the eventual release date. So if you mean soe wouldn't fund this turd for months and months without seeing a return on their investment, then yeah, I guess they "forced" Vanguard to release early. The only ones to blame for the state Vanguard released in is McQuaid and Sigil.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Just kidding. People screw up. Doesn't mean they can't also buckle down. People learn lessons in different ways. While his new game concept probably has some good ideas going on (Vanguard certainly did,) he has a lot to prove in the eyes of many. Best of luck to him. Interested in seeing what kind of high fantasy he is talking about, actually. The more the merrier!
I suppose everytime I see a thread about Vanguard, if only indirectly, I marvel that SOE has not already pulled the plug on the game. I did try the game when a group on MMORPG tried a player relaunch. I remember logging in and getting stuck in a rock. It didnt get much better from there. A game as old as Vanguard and so many bugs/glitches is not okay in my book.
Comments
It seems to be the trend now that Has-been Devs, who cant get funded through standard investments because of their past failures, are now turning to Kickstarter to get $$$.
I guess they think that the MMO fanbase is just shortsighted and foolish enough to fall for it.
McQuaid, Garriot, Jacobs. Whos next? Bowman? Smart?
Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.
Games Played: Too Many
Why? IT was the last great AAA MMORPG. It had bug issues from launching early, but its still the best MMO on the market for PvE folks.
Uh, but it is. It had some of the best lore, easily the best game world, best classes, the last MMO to try to innovative (diplomacy) amazing crafting and housing, flying mounts, the best dungeons, the list goes on.
I would like to think everyone should have a second-chance. I hope Brad has learned from any and all the mistakes surrounding Sigil and Vanguard (be he responsible or not).
As a gamer, I still want Brad to feel the sting for what happened with Vanguard as there were a lot of great, unrealized ideas behind the game.
However, as a fellow somebody, I would like him to have the opportunity to 'redeem' himself and be able to do it via something he loves. Whether he is as responsible as we've been lead to believe or not, I want to see him succeed. I've gotten the sense that he has a genuine love for the genre - and for that, I am optimistic (but cautious).
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Tell that to the Sigil employees that were stiffed and fired in a parking lot. A parking lot.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Tell that to SOE who forced the game out 8 months ahead of schedule, the same week as Burning Crusade, and then shelved the game and never promoted it again?
Blame Brad all you want, but it doesn't make it relavent or true.
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You can list all you want, great games arent ftp with 1 server barely populated. There have been numerous "win back" offers and the game is ftp for anyone with an interest to try and if you were on during ftp launch you would know that many did. The fact remains that the 1 server is barely populated and if it was 1/10 the game you claim it would have multiple servers packed with rabid fans.
The only reason $oe even got their demon spawned hands on it is due to the complete and total mismanagement by sigil. Sigil wasted so many millions and so much time due to incompetence MS had no choice but to drop the bug ridden mess.
lol... Brad better be listening!
As far as "the suck", I would say it mostly goes to the performance issues. Nothing in my experience of playing Vanguard was particularly heinous gameplay-wise.
Wrong, actually.
All reports we have seen is that the game was not managed perfectly, true. But the reason Microsoft dropped them was because they changed CEOs and the new one wasn't interested in making MMOs. But I don't expect someone who spells SoE with $ to be rational..
When they aren't being actively developed, yes they are. Popularity is not a clear indication of quality, see, Justin Bieber, WoW, Call of Duty, ect.
You can say you like Vanguard but you can't call it "quality". The game has it's great points but quality is associated with polish and playability. The game is still pretty messy after all these years.
And WoW is still the most polished and high quality MMO that very few have come close to since then. Whether you like the gameplay or not.
umm...you might want to check your facts too. SoE was merely publishing the game when it launched. In fact I think it was a "co-publishing" deal they didn't have any control over the game until after it launched. But a lot of people like to hate SoE and just blame them for everything.
Just like EA, if EA has their name on anything in ANY capacity it's their fault. Not the company that actually makes the game.
In a lot of cases it's the publisher (SOE or EA) who decide when a game ships, not the studio actually developing said game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I would agree with this. The studio was not managed well and the programming engine they chose was awful.
But despite the bugs and instability, its the only AAA MMO since 2004 that's held me more than a week. So polish counts for nothing when your gameplay blows. And yes, SoE pushed the game out, then bought it, then shelved it.
Vanguard was DOA no matter what soe did. If soe hadn't intervened and pumped their money into Vanguard, there would never have been a game released. Period. Sigil pissed away all the money MS gave them and soe only gave them enough to make it to the eventual release date. So if you mean soe wouldn't fund this turd for months and months without seeing a return on their investment, then yeah, I guess they "forced" Vanguard to release early.
The only ones to blame for the state Vanguard released in is McQuaid and Sigil.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Just kidding. People screw up. Doesn't mean they can't also buckle down. People learn lessons in different ways. While his new game concept probably has some good ideas going on (Vanguard certainly did,) he has a lot to prove in the eyes of many. Best of luck to him. Interested in seeing what kind of high fantasy he is talking about, actually. The more the merrier!
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