Originally posted by DamonVile If all 12 of you quit what will the other 48 million of us do ?
Continue to waste your time and money until you become us?
Someday they'll chose the Red Pill and leave the Matrix like the rest of us, only a matter of time.
But for now they are content with the Blue Pill.
I think you got that backwards, those trapped in the matrix are those who think their continuous complaining will solve their perceived problem, this complaining has been going on since I first visited this site in 05. The rest of us took that Red pill long ago and accepted this is the reality of the genre.
No, pretty sure I got it right the first time, you'll never change your fate if you just go along with the "reality" of the situation, you'll just continue to be misled....well at least until you finally make the transition and join the rest of us.
Again, only a matter of time.....
I' ve been playing games since the 70s, I see all the faults. I just know that when you only look for the bad in things, that's all you'll ever see. It's not about being unable to see the truth, it's about accepting what the truth is and focuing on what you really want out of them.
I play games for fun, so I focus on fininding it in them. If I wanted to sit here and bitch and moan about them....I'd go do something else. Being negative all the time is how you become a misserable person in your old age. Everything you become stems from your attitude about life and what you love to do.
I argue because just like saying everything sucks over and over...being piossitve over and over helps make it ture. People really do undersestimate how much control they have over thier own attitudes.
So no it isn't a matter of time. I know full well what becomes of people who become the people in this thread. I'll find something else to do first.
Amen brother! Folks need to responsibility for their own happiness.
Each time I read one of these threads I feel like I'm watching a Highlander movie.
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE TYPE OF MMO~!
I have enjoyed about equally pre- and post- wow era games.
I personally look forward to the day when oldfart MMOs and dimwit MMOs can stand together side-by-side in harmony.
To those of you adamantly defending one side over the other, you're a bad person and the reason we get stuck in ruts when it comes to moving forward in games - I hope all the bad things in life happen to you.
Be open, maybe some of the new/old methods can appeal to you in the right setting. (Except GW2's trinityless system, that was awful and you're free to hate it.)
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar No more so than the old ones.
Yeh.
I remember .. i stopped playing MMOs after some time at EQ, just because it was not to my liking. And i did not come to forums to rant about it.
I just quit ... went do something else. It was not until WoW fixed many of the programs before i came back to play MMOs. I expect to leave again if games are not to my liking.
The sad part is, that's what this site is becoming. The place where mmo players go to die. It's like an old folks home here where everyone sits around talking about how great everything used to be and how it all sucks now. They think because there are other old burn outs around them agreeing it must be the way it is for everyone.
The world outside this rest home gets on just fine without them. It's only the end for the ones wanting to die.
And yet you are here. I'm sure there are other MMORPG forums that are full of sunshine, rainbows and puppy dogs.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I look back at Asheron's Call 1 and realize that it had so much that pretty much no current game has. And that was back in 1999/2000.
I miss running around in a huge seamless world exploring.
I miss the danger of dying out there in the wilds and having to run back to my corpse to recover my valuables.
I miss the feeling of what we do as players having any impact on an ongoing storyline.
I miss an evolving world where from month to month the landscape changes, cities disappear and appear.
I miss twitch combat where your movement has an impact on wether your enemy hits you with his attacks and where you can effectively use terrain to your advantage.
I miss random loot that feels relevant and broadscoped.
I miss having my own cottage out there in the wilds where I can hang my trophies.
I miss killing monsters for trophies that I can give to a collector of such instead of the stupid and inane "Kill XX mobs quests".
I miss designing my own character with his own skills and attributes.
I miss being able to choose my weapons from my own taste and not because someone said that "that class cant use XXX!"
I miss researching spells on my own.
I am -SO- tired of the cookiecutter corridor-world bullshit thrown at us as Grade AAA MMO games.
And what I am the MOST tired of of is the young gamers of today which seems so INCREDIBLY entitled to everything. This and that MUST be made EASIER!
Personaly, I am hoping for a new world war so we can weed out all the DNA trash sitting around in front of the consoles and their WoW-style games. Thats how disgusted I am at the state of the MMO world. You destroyed my games you dingholes!
I look back at Asheron's Call 1 and realize that it had so much that pretty much no current game has. And that was back in 1999/2000.
I miss running around in a huge seamless world exploring.
I miss the danger of dying out there in the wilds and having to run back to my corpse to recover my valuables.
I miss the feeling of what we do as players having any impact on an ongoing storyline.
I miss an evolving world where from month to month the landscape changes, cities disappear and appear.
I miss twitch combat where your movement has an impact on wether your enemy hits you with his attacks and where you can effectively use terrain to your advantage.
I miss random loot that feels relevant and broadscoped.
I miss having my own cottage out there in the wilds where I can hang my trophies.
I miss killing monsters for trophies that I can give to a collector of such instead of the stupid and inane "Kill XX mobs quests".
I miss designing my own character with his own skills and attributes.
I miss being able to choose my weapons from my own taste and not because someone said that "that class cant use XXX!"
I miss researching spells on my own.
I am -SO- tired of the cookiecutter corridor-world bullshit thrown at us as Grade AAA MMO games.
And what I am the MOST tired of of is the young gamers of today which seems so INCREDIBLY entitled to everything. This and that MUST be made EASIER!
Personaly, I am hoping for a new world war so we can weed out all the DNA trash sitting around in front of the consoles and their WoW-style games. Thats how disgusted I am at the state of the MMO world. You destroyed my games you dingholes!
But tell us how you really feel about Death Metal
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think change is coming and mainly because there are still those out there with beliefs in the old school or even just change and lack of expected success of the niche created by WoW.
Change is coming? It is already here, just not back to the old school tried and failed ideas.
MOBAs, instanced pvp games like WoT, shooters like Destiny .. are the new things, replacing MMORPGs as the forefront of online games.
Don't make the erroneous assumption that if themepark is going out of favor, only the old stuff will come back. May be the answer is another radical change, and true MMORPGs are no longer the focus.
I don't expect it to be exactly the same. But I doubt with demand for MMORPGs it will disappear. Most just want diversity away from the formula.
The sad part is, that's what this site is becoming. The place where mmo players go to die. It's like an old folks home here where everyone sits around talking about how great everything used to be and how it all sucks now. They think because there are other old burn outs around them agreeing it must be the way it is for everyone.
The world outside this rest home gets on just fine without them. It's only the end for the ones wanting to die.
And yet you are here. I'm sure there are other MMORPG forums that are full of sunshine, rainbows and puppy dogs.
Just because you don't like your neighbors doesn't mean you have to move out...or become like them.
The sad part is, that's what this site is becoming. The place where mmo players go to die. It's like an old folks home here where everyone sits around talking about how great everything used to be and how it all sucks now. They think because there are other old burn outs around them agreeing it must be the way it is for everyone.
The world outside this rest home gets on just fine without them. It's only the end for the ones wanting to die.
And yet you are here. I'm sure there are other MMORPG forums that are full of sunshine, rainbows and puppy dogs.
Just because you don't like your neighbors doesn't mean you have to move out...or become like them.
I'm just looking for consistency. If your view is that once a player becomes disgruntled with certain games then they should just leave and stop complaining then shouldn't that view apply to forums as well?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
It's not over, most of the genre just evolved to cater to a different crowd.There are indie games in the works that will bring back real danger and penalty for making mistakes in game.Just don't expect any AAA game to do so ever again.If it costs a lot to make, it is made for mass market - simple reality.
This. There is some hope down the line (Pathfinder, The Repop, Archeage, Black Des). I'm playing Darkfall UW and enjoying even with a horrible win loss ratio in the open world. As far as current games that aren't watered down linear themeparks...there are old school games and DFUW, sadly. In a couple years I think we will be in a much better spot.
Want to know how to cut a MMORPG budget in half? Cut out the voice over work and cut scenes
That's totally not true.
The only way to cut the costs in half is cut down on the music/sound quality and on graphics. You need to use some already available music and generic "I hit you with a sword" sounds. You need to pay less attention to details on gear, provide lower resolution textures and tone down on all the particle effects.
Unfortunately, if you do all that you end up either with Minecraft or with a game "feels incredibly fake and cheap, we are not in the 90s any more".
Well a lot of people thought like ALBQuirky not his fault he missed the memo and here it is
"Don't be scared about adding voice over and cool cinematic content," he advised his audience, "but do be careful about adding lots of choice with consequence because that adds to QA cost and development cost and makes it hard to design everything." James Ohlen.
@ OP - I do tend to agree with you a little. I only play one MMO atm and it's a great game but has nothing on the communties , friendships , fun etc of my past MMO's listed in my sig. We are watching you SEGA like hawk's get that game out already , sigh.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Luckily, the older games are still there. I am currently playing L2 C1. Have not had this much fun in an MMO since 04 when WoW got released.
Agree nothing stoping the OP from playing those games.
Probably the best "MMO" (I know it does not completely qualify) since WoW was Minecraft. Now some of the upcoming games copy the heck out of it.
That's not true, Wurm Online does everything that Minecraft does but it does it better and has more features than Minecraft could ever dream off. If anything they are now copying Wurm Online not Minecraft.
For me, it is quite sad where the genre is heading. On the other hand, I can see how the "consumers" can be happy as there are tons of titles, mostly F2P and they are having fun jumping from one to another.
Tired of lazy and/or scamming developers. (usually both)
Maybe im just getting old. What happened to the addictiveness, the spark, the magic, the difficulty and the competition. Every single game is the exact same bullshit. They are all one month wonders with zero longevity designed for someone with the intelligence of a gnat overpopulated with people that think they are genious. What the hell happened? I remember 10-12 years ago just day dreaming on what was ahead and what this genre would become. I remember wondering how amazed we would all be. I remember wondering about how amazing the virtual worlds would be that we would all explore. I remember real difficulty and the penalties if you died or failed. The comraderie and teamwork. I remember real communities. Real friendships and relationships that carried over off the screen. Now its just a huge cesspool no matter what game you enter its total rudeness and hate.
We should be treated with more respect. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on games and keeping our systems up to spec to stay on top and its all just full of regret now. Total waste of time and money. Tell me a game thats worth the time and i will explain how ive played it and the problems it has.
I work 40-60 hours per week, i take very, very good care of my family but i still have the night. I mostly drink beer, read forums and wonder what the fuck happened.
Sorry for the rant.
You're not ranting. I fully agree with everything you have said. I think the last game i actually enjoyed that had all those things was SWG before things changed in that game. i have also played just about every MMO out there and nothing has the spark like it did before. Maybe it is our age, I don't know. 41 here. But, i'm still waiting and hoping something comes out soon. We'll see.
Triple A sandbox with 100 million dollar graphics, Deep Lore, Meaningful PvP, sophisticated A.I in a living breathing virtual world... will probably never get made.
But if games like this were made I can gaurantee 5-10 years from now nobody will say "I wish we could go back to the good ole days of themeparks"
Originally posted by jpnz So another 'Back in the old days MMO' rants?Sorry but that gameplay is now niche.Sometimes what you like is niche and that means the market might not cater to what you want.
lol .. it has / had nothing to do with gameplay, except maybe in the death penalties thing.
if has / had to do with being a human being .. something that is basically discouraged in mmos these days.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Tired of lazy and/or scamming developers. (usually both)
Maybe im just getting old. What happened to the addictiveness, the spark, the magic, the difficulty and the competition. Every single game is the exact same bullshit. They are all one month wonders with zero longevity designed for someone with the intelligence of a gnat overpopulated with people that think they are genious. What the hell happened? I remember 10-12 years ago just day dreaming on what was ahead and what this genre would become. I remember wondering how amazed we would all be. I remember wondering about how amazing the virtual worlds would be that we would all explore. I remember real difficulty and the penalties if you died or failed. The comraderie and teamwork. I remember real communities. Real friendships and relationships that carried over off the screen. Now its just a huge cesspool no matter what game you enter its total rudeness and hate.
We should be treated with more respect. We spend thousands and thousands of dollars on games and keeping our systems up to spec to stay on top and its all just full of regret now. Total waste of time and money. Tell me a game thats worth the time and i will explain how ive played it and the problems it has.
I work 40-60 hours per week, i take very, very good care of my family but i still have the night. I mostly drink beer, read forums and wonder what the fuck happened.
Sorry for the rant.
Remember to turn off the light when you leave....
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Originally posted by jpnz So another 'Back in the old days MMO' rants?
Sorry but that gameplay is now niche.
Sometimes what you like is niche and that means the market might not cater to what you want.
lol .. it has / had nothing to do with gameplay, except maybe in the death penalties thing.
if has / had to do with being a human being .. something that is basically discouraged in mmos these days.
This is exactly the point, MMOs today like most other things are made according to metrics and focus groups, there is no heart, no soul, and people are left with a feeling of emptiness at the end. Its actually the way our society is structured, most of those making them are trained and accept that methodology. Really they are not capable of producing anything different.
Gimmicks and shinies are all they know and unfortunately there is a big audience for that.
Sparkly, shiny, richly detailed worlds and characters cost a sh*t-ton of money to produce. That level of investment puts an incredible strain on the required monetization of a completed game. That strain pushes design to the largest possible market (aka mainstream).
Mainstream players (at least if what I see in the genre is an indication) don't want the kind of game that the OP wants.
Sorry dude. You've fallen out of the target demographics. The way I see it, either wait for a miracle, lower your expectations, or find something else to do.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
You guys could give me a million or so dollars to make the next greatest MMORPG ever.
A million dollars is a staff of 10 paid slightly over minimum wage for 5 years, and leaves nothing for cost of the office, software licensing, server setup, marketing and other expenses.
Take the staff to 50 if you expect to ever get a full-featured MMORPG finished, add in another 10 million for other expenses, and you're looking at 20 million up front.
If you can find someone to give you 20 million, look me up. I'd be glad to program for you. I even have a little experience. Very little, that is. :-)
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Well said. Agreed. Been thinkin' the same thing for years.
Just stop spending money and see what happens. That's all we got really.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
The sad part is, that's what this site is becoming. The place where mmo players go to die. It's like an old folks home here where everyone sits around talking about how great everything used to be and how it all sucks now. They think because there are other old burn outs around them agreeing it must be the way it is for everyone.
The world outside this rest home gets on just fine without them. It's only the end for the ones wanting to die.
And yet you are here. I'm sure there are other MMORPG forums that are full of sunshine, rainbows and puppy dogs.
Just because you don't like your neighbors doesn't mean you have to move out...or become like them.
I'm just looking for consistency. If your view is that once a player becomes disgruntled with certain games then they should just leave and stop complaining then shouldn't that view apply to forums as well?
Yes they probably should, but before you spring your witty trap. I'm not disgruntled with the site, just disagree with many of it's members.
Comments
Amen brother! Folks need to responsibility for their own happiness.
Each time I read one of these threads I feel like I'm watching a Highlander movie.
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE TYPE OF MMO~!
I have enjoyed about equally pre- and post- wow era games.
I personally look forward to the day when oldfart MMOs and dimwit MMOs can stand together side-by-side in harmony.
To those of you adamantly defending one side over the other, you're a bad person and the reason we get stuck in ruts when it comes to moving forward in games - I hope all the bad things in life happen to you.
Be open, maybe some of the new/old methods can appeal to you in the right setting. (Except GW2's trinityless system, that was awful and you're free to hate it.)
I forgot why I was posting.
And yet you are here. I'm sure there are other MMORPG forums that are full of sunshine, rainbows and puppy dogs.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Agree with OP.
I look back at Asheron's Call 1 and realize that it had so much that pretty much no current game has. And that was back in 1999/2000.
I miss running around in a huge seamless world exploring.
I miss the danger of dying out there in the wilds and having to run back to my corpse to recover my valuables.
I miss the feeling of what we do as players having any impact on an ongoing storyline.
I miss an evolving world where from month to month the landscape changes, cities disappear and appear.
I miss twitch combat where your movement has an impact on wether your enemy hits you with his attacks and where you can effectively use terrain to your advantage.
I miss random loot that feels relevant and broadscoped.
I miss having my own cottage out there in the wilds where I can hang my trophies.
I miss killing monsters for trophies that I can give to a collector of such instead of the stupid and inane "Kill XX mobs quests".
I miss designing my own character with his own skills and attributes.
I miss being able to choose my weapons from my own taste and not because someone said that "that class cant use XXX!"
I miss researching spells on my own.
I am -SO- tired of the cookiecutter corridor-world bullshit thrown at us as Grade AAA MMO games.
And what I am the MOST tired of of is the young gamers of today which seems so INCREDIBLY entitled to everything. This and that MUST be made EASIER!
Personaly, I am hoping for a new world war so we can weed out all the DNA trash sitting around in front of the consoles and their WoW-style games. Thats how disgusted I am at the state of the MMO world. You destroyed my games you dingholes!
But tell us how you really feel about Death Metal
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Change is coming? It is already here, just not back to the old school tried and failed ideas.
MOBAs, instanced pvp games like WoT, shooters like Destiny .. are the new things, replacing MMORPGs as the forefront of online games.
Don't make the erroneous assumption that if themepark is going out of favor, only the old stuff will come back. May be the answer is another radical change, and true MMORPGs are no longer the focus.
I don't expect it to be exactly the same. But I doubt with demand for MMORPGs it will disappear. Most just want diversity away from the formula.Just because you don't like your neighbors doesn't mean you have to move out...or become like them.
I'm just looking for consistency. If your view is that once a player becomes disgruntled with certain games then they should just leave and stop complaining then shouldn't that view apply to forums as well?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
This. There is some hope down the line (Pathfinder, The Repop, Archeage, Black Des). I'm playing Darkfall UW and enjoying even with a horrible win loss ratio in the open world. As far as current games that aren't watered down linear themeparks...there are old school games and DFUW, sadly. In a couple years I think we will be in a much better spot.Love it! :-P
Wrote some lyrics for a Norwegian Doom Metal band back in the early 90s that became relatively popular :-)
Like for this one
Well a lot of people thought like ALBQuirky not his fault he missed the memo and here it is
"Don't be scared about adding voice over and cool cinematic content," he advised his audience, "but do be careful about adding lots of choice with consequence because that adds to QA cost and development cost and makes it hard to design everything." James Ohlen.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/03/29/gdc-2013-james-ohlen-on-how-f2p-saved-swtor/
@ OP - I do tend to agree with you a little. I only play one MMO atm and it's a great game but has nothing on the communties , friendships , fun etc of my past MMO's listed in my sig. We are watching you SEGA like hawk's get that game out already , sigh.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
RyzomCore https://ryzomcore.atlassian.net/wiki/display/RC/Ryzom+Core+Home And people really think EQN and Smed got their first lol.
Ryzom Ring http://www.ryzom.com/en/mmorpg-rpg-mmo-ryzom_ring.html And again people really think Smed and Co got their first, nope they didn't.
Plenty of choice is good.
You're not ranting. I fully agree with everything you have said. I think the last game i actually enjoyed that had all those things was SWG before things changed in that game. i have also played just about every MMO out there and nothing has the spark like it did before. Maybe it is our age, I don't know. 41 here. But, i'm still waiting and hoping something comes out soon. We'll see.
Triple A sandbox with 100 million dollar graphics, Deep Lore, Meaningful PvP, sophisticated A.I in a living breathing virtual world... will probably never get made.
But if games like this were made I can gaurantee 5-10 years from now nobody will say "I wish we could go back to the good ole days of themeparks"
just saying...
lol .. it has / had nothing to do with gameplay, except maybe in the death penalties thing.
if has / had to do with being a human being .. something that is basically discouraged in mmos these days.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Remember to turn off the light when you leave....
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
This is exactly the point, MMOs today like most other things are made according to metrics and focus groups, there is no heart, no soul, and people are left with a feeling of emptiness at the end. Its actually the way our society is structured, most of those making them are trained and accept that methodology. Really they are not capable of producing anything different.
Gimmicks and shinies are all they know and unfortunately there is a big audience for that.
There is a way to fix all this though...
You guys could give me a million or so dollars to make the next greatest MMORPG ever.
What makes you think you could do it?
I blame it all on graphics.
Sparkly, shiny, richly detailed worlds and characters cost a sh*t-ton of money to produce. That level of investment puts an incredible strain on the required monetization of a completed game. That strain pushes design to the largest possible market (aka mainstream).
Mainstream players (at least if what I see in the genre is an indication) don't want the kind of game that the OP wants.
Sorry dude. You've fallen out of the target demographics. The way I see it, either wait for a miracle, lower your expectations, or find something else to do.
A million dollars is a staff of 10 paid slightly over minimum wage for 5 years, and leaves nothing for cost of the office, software licensing, server setup, marketing and other expenses.
Take the staff to 50 if you expect to ever get a full-featured MMORPG finished, add in another 10 million for other expenses, and you're looking at 20 million up front.
If you can find someone to give you 20 million, look me up. I'd be glad to program for you. I even have a little experience. Very little, that is. :-)
Daoc was made for 4 million
Well said. Agreed. Been thinkin' the same thing for years.
Just stop spending money and see what happens. That's all we got really.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Yes they probably should, but before you spring your witty trap. I'm not disgruntled with the site, just disagree with many of it's members.