What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.
MMO's will almost always be designed to bring in the largest demographic possible. There will always be an exception here and there. Yet 9 times out of 10 those games are suited for a certain taste and only that taste (EVE).
I'd recommend many here take up RTS's, SIms like ARMA 2 or 3, Space sims like the X-series, etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Almost everyone has an access to internet in western countries these days. That means you can mass produce shite and it will sell nonetheless.
Those selected few who had a broadband connection in late 90's or very early 2000's (i wasn't one of them) and were able to play UO, AC, etc. can tell the difference. The others probably have no clue and are willing to take whatever crap these companies will produce, and take it as a second coming of Jesus Christ when a new, shiny and more convenient MMO comes out.
Quality, most definitely > quantity.
The funny part is there was still a large amount of complaining about those games back then. Forums really looked no different. SWG is a perfect example actually. As it had just as fast of a decline as any game would today if not faster.
Quality is a subjective quantifier, there's no more truth in those who were calling old games shite, than there is in those calling the current crop shite.
These complaints must be after they butchered their products not before
In most cases it was all that complaining that resulted in those changes.
Example....UO trammel server. People have been bitching about things in mmos as long as there's been mmos.
Another example would be SWG's CU and NGE.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I don't know about you, I have never found myself "tricked" into having fun... I have it or I don't there's little in between. We're not stuck with anything, you individually may be, yet most of us don't feel forced to play games we don't like or compelled to.
How do you know that you are "most"?
Most people don't stay around for more than 30 days before hopping to the next game. Why is that? Why has this become such a big deal that game devs refer to these people as "content locust"?
Who's right here? You or the game companies that see the data?
It's fine, he's clueless.
As for your second statement. I can easily put the blame on the developer it's not our fault the content is too easy or extremely short. I place all these issues on the people developing the games.
I'm clueless because i see a spade for a spade? I know what type of games I like I don't think a gimmick is going to remedy the issues I have with these games, yet folks keep talking about how we're all being tricked, in that it would seem to take one to know one. So please explain what I am clueless about, or are you just blowing hot air because I said something that hit deep?
You have to buy the product to know if you'll like the product, unless you're cheating the company out of their money (torrenting, private servers, account sharing, account buying, and etc.). They're cheating you out of your money the moment you find out the money you've spent wasn't worth it. Heck, companies are even starting to sell the beta keys.
That's what Beta is for , haven't seen a game in along time I didn't get to try before I buy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I agree that the MMO(RPG) genre is in a dismal state...
... with more players than it ever had. Yep, dismal seems to be the proper word to describe it.
(/sarcasm)
Quality, not quantity.
And who are you to define what "quality" is for other people?
Not to mention many forgot what messes the releases of UO, EQ and AC1 were... quality, yeah... what quality?
What's funny is that I've been playing MMORPGs since UO, and forums have always been the same... full of a minority of very vocal whiners who are never happy. You guys act like this only started recently, but you have long term memory problems if you really believe that.
Originally posted by donpopuki I have no problem people voicing their wants and wishes. The line is crossed when "x" isn't in the game then the game is made for "the lowest common denominator" and "these kids want everything handed to them nowadays". Whether someone likes a game or not isn't a true reflection of the value of the person. The toxicity of all this is spilling over into real life when devs get death threats. Call me a hypocrite all you want but just because I see the toxic behavior and call a spade a spade doesn't invalidate the observation.
Well said!
I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Do you think player complaining had anything to do with that ? Or was that all from the devs side of things and wanting more subs.
For sure, just look at what areas they hit the hardest with the NGE. They removed the deeper parts of the game in favor of shallow options that were easy to understand. The profession system became a easy to follow class system. Not to mention the wording used by LA when making those changes. Citing things like "the game required too much reading for players to understand". They removed anything that wasn't straight forward.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's not what a beta's for. A beta is to properly fix the issues with the game(s). No wonder companies don't typically listen to the beta testers, they simply don' care enough to report about the product. They need to go back to in house testing to keep out freeloading. Which is also another reason as to why they're starting to sell their beta keys.
Hey man I know what Beta is for, I'm just saying Beta is a good way to know a game before it releases (to save money). Doesn't mean I don't test a game when I'm given the opportunity. Though in some cases I didn't like what I saw enough to continue to participate in Beta.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Do you think player complaining had anything to do with that ? Or was that all from the devs side of things and wanting more subs.
For sure, just look at what areas they hit the hardest with the NGE. They removed the deeper parts of the game in favor of shallow options that were easy to understand. The profession system became a easy to follow class system. Not to mention the wording used by LA when making those changes. Citing things like "the game required too much reading for players to understand". They removed anything that wasn't straight forward.
I was a chef back then and in a private beta type thing with a small group of other crafters that worked with the devs. What surprised me at the time was there was no talk of the NGE before the NGE hit. for us working directly with some of them it was all give us your ideas!! one day and bam projects over, thank you for your time...btw your profession is now no longer part of the game.
I don't really remember a lot of complaints that the game was too hard, it just wasn't doing what soe/LA wanted. I've always felt that the changes where taken from what wow was offering not what people were asking for.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.
Some people actually like gear treadmills, hell look how popular Diablo or POE is. What else are those games about other than slashing and collecting?
The guy above is forgetting one thing. In most of those cases, people play until they run out of content. SO it's not a matter of not liking what's there. It's a matter of there not being enough of it there.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Do you think player complaining had anything to do with that ? Or was that all from the devs side of things and wanting more subs.
For sure, just look at what areas they hit the hardest with the NGE. They removed the deeper parts of the game in favor of shallow options that were easy to understand. The profession system became a easy to follow class system. Not to mention the wording used by LA when making those changes. Citing things like "the game required too much reading for players to understand". They removed anything that wasn't straight forward.
I was a chef back then and in a private beta type thing with a small group of other crafters that worked with the devs. What surprised me at the time was there was no talk of the NGE before the NGE hit. for us working directly with some of them it was all give us your ideas!! one day and bam projects over, thank you for your time...btw your profession is now no longer part of the game.
I don't really remember a lot of complaints that the game was too hard, it just wasn't doing what soe/LA wanted. I've always felt that the changes where taken from what wow was offering not what people were asking for.
Yeah we knew nothing of NGE until it was leaked just days before implementation, that day on the forums was hell I felt bad for Tiggs lol, she took a beating for sure, from both fans and SOE.
I'm sure it was a mix of both to be honest, I think they just struck at the biggest areas complained about through different avenues of feedback.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.
Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.
Do you think player complaining had anything to do with that ? Or was that all from the devs side of things and wanting more subs.
Common sense tells you that people wont sub to a game if the owners have no respect for their customers. Wanting more subs and wanting an entirely different player base are perceived differently. The hubris alone told people to stay even farther away. The EQ type player were the ones telling them diku starwars would be pure win. Wonder what they say now? I wonder why devs still listen?
That's the common sense side. The business side is probably too complex for us to understand their reasoning.
Or we can take the marketers words..."much too much reading..." lol.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I suppose if people are fine with garbage then I really can't change their minds.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
Well people in this forum seem to think different about these games of the future, apparently they like these games.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?
What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.
Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.
I was there as well, but do you really believe those days are coming back? Star Citizen looks pretty deep and engaging. A few indie MMO's look promising, if they can overcome indies biggest hurdle (quality of gameplay). Yet as far as a straight up resurgence of the old from AAA studios? I just don't see it happening.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?
I couldn't even guess at it's real population. I saw it was number 6 in korea ( which means nothing really )
And if I understand your question, I don't see why it couldn't work. I think game makers will be better off once they start going for niche groups rather than mass market. Tera to me is a success. Apparently bluehole agrees because they've said they're making a part 2.
What really needs to change most is the perception that if it didn't kill wow it's not worth playing.
Comments
What gets me is why so many feel the need to keep playing MMO's if what they want is a challenge and deep game-play. There are so many better options out there for that in genres better suited for it.
MMO's will almost always be designed to bring in the largest demographic possible. There will always be an exception here and there. Yet 9 times out of 10 those games are suited for a certain taste and only that taste (EVE).
I'd recommend many here take up RTS's, SIms like ARMA 2 or 3, Space sims like the X-series, etc...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Another example would be SWG's CU and NGE.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Do you think player complaining had anything to do with that ? Or was that all from the devs side of things and wanting more subs.
That's what Beta is for
, haven't seen a game in along time I didn't get to try before I buy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
They're not fine with it. That's why these "games of the future" are so empty after the first 30-60 days after their release. They abandon their own games...the they screamed for. lol And not just 1 or 2, but virtually every game since 2003.
For sure, just look at what areas they hit the hardest with the NGE. They removed the deeper parts of the game in favor of shallow options that were easy to understand. The profession system became a easy to follow class system. Not to mention the wording used by LA when making those changes. Citing things like "the game required too much reading for players to understand". They removed anything that wasn't straight forward.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hey man I know what Beta is for, I'm just saying Beta is a good way to know a game before it releases (to save money). Doesn't mean I don't test a game when I'm given the opportunity. Though in some cases I didn't like what I saw enough to continue to participate in Beta.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Dunno.
But, now they have zero subs for trying to be "the future".
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
But, why do they abandon their games so quickly? If they're so great and all.
I was a chef back then and in a private beta type thing with a small group of other crafters that worked with the devs. What surprised me at the time was there was no talk of the NGE before the NGE hit. for us working directly with some of them it was all give us your ideas!! one day and bam projects over, thank you for your time...btw your profession is now no longer part of the game.
I don't really remember a lot of complaints that the game was too hard, it just wasn't doing what soe/LA wanted. I've always felt that the changes where taken from what wow was offering not what people were asking for.
Some people actually like gear treadmills, hell look how popular Diablo or POE is. What else are those games about other than slashing and collecting?
The guy above is forgetting one thing. In most of those cases, people play until they run out of content. SO it's not a matter of not liking what's there. It's a matter of there not being enough of it there.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah we knew nothing of NGE until it was leaked just days before implementation, that day on the forums was hell I felt bad for Tiggs lol, she took a beating for sure, from both fans and SOE.
I'm sure it was a mix of both to be honest, I think they just struck at the biggest areas complained about through different avenues of feedback.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Who says they're empty ? Just because people on this forum want to label a game dead doesn't mean it's dead.
I play tera, a game "most" people here will call crap, fail, dead etc, etc. It's full of people...everywhere. As a DPS I wait about 5-10 minutes for a lfg. Anywhere I go there are people playing, lvling...doing things. Guilds are active, alliance chat is active. People raid, pvp....the game it as alive as any mmo I've ever played
but ask anyone here and TERA is a dead fail mmo. So who's wrong ? the people playing or the people posting. Someone has to be.
Because many of us were here back when MMOs were some of the hardest and most engaging MMOs around, and we want that again.
Common sense tells you that people wont sub to a game if the owners have no respect for their customers. Wanting more subs and wanting an entirely different player base are perceived differently. The hubris alone told people to stay even farther away. The EQ type player were the ones telling them diku starwars would be pure win. Wonder what they say now? I wonder why devs still listen?
That's the common sense side. The business side is probably too complex for us to understand their reasoning.
Or we can take the marketers words..."much too much reading..." lol.
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
Your right your absolutly right. But how many players are we talking about? surely not the millions the intended to have. Dare we call it niche? So why would a Niche game a Game with rules and a world of old but with grapics of now not work if it can be in the same niche status as Tera and all the others?
I was there as well, but do you really believe those days are coming back? Star Citizen looks pretty deep and engaging. A few indie MMO's look promising, if they can overcome indies biggest hurdle (quality of gameplay). Yet as far as a straight up resurgence of the old from AAA studios? I just don't see it happening.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree with the OP.
Because the content is consumed?
The Avengers is a great movie. However, I am not going to watch it 100 times.
Splinter Cell Blacklist is a great (to me) game. However, it is over in 2 weeks.
You are confusing between quality and duration. Longer is not better. I am going for quality entertainment, not long entertainment.
I couldn't even guess at it's real population. I saw it was number 6 in korea ( which means nothing really )
And if I understand your question, I don't see why it couldn't work. I think game makers will be better off once they start going for niche groups rather than mass market. Tera to me is a success. Apparently bluehole agrees because they've said they're making a part 2.
What really needs to change most is the perception that if it didn't kill wow it's not worth playing.