Actually MO was developed on the Unreal engine, definitely not something cobbled together in-house. However, the devs practically killed the game by blatantly helping to their Alpha-buddy guilds gain the upper hand and incompetent bug fixing (fix 1 thing, break 10).
Most of the indy sandboxes failed because their developers didn't have the understanding or the know-how to create a functional sandbox with intertwined PVP/economy/politics systems in place, they either catered to the PVE crowd and failed after they couldn't keep developing "content" fast enough, or they catered to the PVP crowd and failed after the game devolved into a team-deathmatch arena. Others failed because they seem to have presumed "indy" gives a carte blanche to ship any kind of buggy shit they feel like and spam the "small team with limited resources" excuse ad-infinitum while charging AAA prices.
Only EVE managed to create the cross-over between game mechanics required to flesh out a sandbox, and they did it by developing their game logically. From my practical experience, any indy sandbox that is developed with the intent to cater to a specific demographic or unconditionally cater to everyone with no regard for logic is already doomed to fail from the get-go.
Over the years I've played indy games, I've developed a check-list I go through before even getting into the process of thinking about giving money to an indy sandbox dev team:
[ ] - Are there guilds suspiciously too close to the Dev team
[ ] - Are most of the game-mechanics still on the "drawing board"
[ ] - Is the Dev team blindly trying to cater to everyone at the same time
[ ] - Do they seem like they know WTF they're talking about
Hell is gonna freeze before an indy team sees any money from me if one of those doesn't check out. Been there done that, never again!
Best advice I can give to anyone getting into indy sandboxes is don't give them any money for "potential" in some vague future, give them money if you're satisfied with the released game when you see it. It's incredibly easy to write awesome blocks of text about game features, whole different bucket of bolts to actually develop them so the features function in synchrony. Always read between the lines people, it'll save you a lot of money and a lot of time.
EVE did it right and thats why they got ~500k subs. Most indy sandboxes don't, thats why they end up with ~10-100 diehard fanboys playing.
More on-topic, I stand by what I said before here when it comes to Repop: I'll wait and see what the game's like. Certainly doesn't hurt to try.
The funny thing about DFUW is that IF it fails, it won't be because of the fact that it's an indie developer. The graphics and aesthetics are not a problem. It's not a case of them biting off more than they can chew. The grandiose aspects of the game for the most part work well. If the game fails, it's because it's geared towards too small a demographic. It's ALL about pvp. There is not much sand in the box there.
If this thread title were posted in the Elder Scrolls, Wildstar, EQNext or Final Fantasy forum it would have got deleted instantly along with a warning PM. Indie devs can't even get love from mods . So sad.
I stopped following this game when it was announced it would be a F2P sandbox. But that's my reason. It's a personal choice I made not to play this game over.
But the points you listed are from your crystal ball. What info do you have that can tell me why I should just blindly accept this? I know, it happened to Xyson. But that doesn't mean it must happen here.
Why "blindly accept" anything about any game development? This is pretty much the only game I'll be playing when it comes out, but I don't blindly accept every feature of it and I'm sure it's going to have problems like any game that will have to be worked on. We've all been hit with nearly every combo of game type and payment model at this point and have been burned for the most part, so I've given up trying to predict the future. The main reason I'm set on this game is because it's actually not taking huge bites. Many of the features and objects in game we've seen before with a bit of a current flavor along with a few modern features as either stand alone or in conjunction. This development to me feels sort of like a patch to two or three games I used to play and the fact that they're not going crazy with "new" and "innovation" and are simply making what looks like a playable open world game is why I follow it.
I get why you have your reservations and I understand your point, but I've played enough games at this point to know what I want in a game and what to be wary of and I can weigh the strengths and weaknesses for myself of any game and make my own decision.
So because predecessors have failed to make a good sandbox game means anyone in the future is going to fail to make a good sandbox game. Yeah, that's how the world works. Nothing ever succeeds, we might as well give up right?
It's interesting that you choose to post this about the only indie MMO dev team that
- sends out regular communication on their forums and email
- has consistent updates to their work and constant forward progress
- playable content and an actual working game
- multiple videos showing off the content they've developed so far
- a growing, dedicated team of people working on the project
So, cut to the chase for us... what's your real issue with the game or its team?
Thats like Xsyon. It seemed trustworthy. Good, communicative devs and everything, but somehow it just didn't work out, none of these indie sandbox games do.
Also, Fallen Earth went the same way. The company did everything right, as far as development and the community and all that.
But it did not help the game come out any better than average.
This game looks awesome, its claimed to have everything I could ever want in a game, which like the OP pointed out could be to much. I truly hope this dream game comes to life but until a publisher is found I will not invest any time or money into it.
I'm following Repopulation closely and with interest, but also a healthy dose of scepticism.
It does have a very impressive feature list. It also has a fairly small dev team who appear to have a fairly limited budget.
Not saying they fill fail, but it looks a bit shaky to me.
One unfortunate side-effect of having many interesting and complicated systems in the game is that the underlying code becomes quite complex. That in turn means that the potential for bugs and (especially) exploits rises significantly. Combine that with F2P and you have Hacker's Heaven.
It's a FFA-PVP game (the most significant part is, anyway) with territorial conquest, which is enough to get the cheaters lining-up to "play". It's F2P, so the penalty for getting caught is zero.
I kind of see the dilemma, how do you impart that old west feel to a game world, when most gamers have no morals, honor, or integrity.
How do you build a world that allows open player killing, without it becoming about nothing but player killing.
It takes far less griefers to destroy a game and its community than it does for non griefers to build it.
The real problem here is the game is F2P, F2P is the death of any MMO that is trying to build a player driven community.
People can make an account run through creating chaos, destruction, anger and frustration, and yet face no penalty for doing so, having nothing at risk for doing so. Not even reputation, as they can just make a new account and do it all over again.
For repop to build what they are hoping for, they are basically counting on the best of gamer integrity.
Problem is we as a people, especially on a virtual level, have lost nearly all of our humanity, we are regressing, there are studies showing overall humanity is using less of its brain, yet more of the agressive centers of our brains.
Historically even the worst outlaws had morals, and codes of honor. Many of them were even respectful of their victims.
Most of the true violence was towards law enforcement, and other outlaws.
Granted there have always been exceptions through history of psychopaths, some of which rose to incredible levels of power.
Originally posted by joshuahalls Originally posted by Zeppelin4It was a let down for me a long time ago. When the player shops had to be in pvp areas only that was it for me. Even in Eve online I can have my player shop where I want in high security space. It was doomed to be a very niche game with pvp as its main focus.
We have been mulling over that issue for awhile and haven't quite announced the solution (or well option) that might help with that issue yet. The real concern we have is moving to much of the features that drive a thriving player city out into a completely safe area is that most people will choose the solution that doesn't involve any risk. We plan on having some transport options and a bit of an adjustment to how the player cities work that we hopefully can sit down and detail further after PAX that should help (but not completely resolve this issue) for players looking to trade and run shops without getting hacked down running around out in the open world. It will come at some cost to the city owners, but part of building a thriving city will be attracting a wide variety of players.
There is a lot of PvE and PvP options to go around and the trick of course is trying to find the right balance to support both play styles and of course the hardcore server is for those who want to go further past what most players are willing to deal with in regards to casual PvP.
I understand that to some mmo gamers, risk of loss is paramount to a worthwhile experience. It is a community built on survival. I have never really enjoyed those types of mmos. But to each their own.
It's interesting that you choose to post this about the only indie MMO dev team that
- sends out regular communication on their forums and email
- has consistent updates to their work and constant forward progress
- playable content and an actual working game
- multiple videos showing off the content they've developed so far
- a growing, dedicated team of people working on the project
So, cut to the chase for us... what's your real issue with the game or its team?
Thats like Xsyon. It seemed trustworthy. Good, communicative devs and everything, but somehow it just didn't work out, none of these indie sandbox games do.
It's actually nothing at all like Xsyon, as that team
- talked about being "80% feature complete' and other BS but had none of it done.
- had little playable prior to release, and barely any playable content at release
- an unstable, small team working on it.
There was nothing good or communicative about Xsyon's dev team. Most of what was relayed was done so by their forum guy. What little was relayed by the dev was pipedreams, 'big' plans and wishful thinking.
As wowclonez said, compare the videos between the two teams to see the major difference in quality and the contrast in how realistic each dev was regarding what was done and what their goals were.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's interesting that you choose to post this about the only indie MMO dev team that
- sends out regular communication on their forums and email
- has consistent updates to their work and constant forward progress
- playable content and an actual working game
- multiple videos showing off the content they've developed so far
- a growing, dedicated team of people working on the project
So, cut to the chase for us... what's your real issue with the game or its team?
Thats like Xsyon. It seemed trustworthy. Good, communicative devs and everything, but somehow it just didn't work out, none of these indie sandbox games do.
It's actually nothing at all like Xsyon, as that team
- talked about being "80% feature complete' and other BS but had none of it done.
- had little playable prior to release, and barely any playable content at release
- an unstable, small team working on it.
There was nothing good or communicative about Xsyon's dev team. Most of what was relayed was done so by their forum guy. What little was relayed by the dev was pipedreams, 'big' plans and wishful thinking.
As wowclonez said, compare the videos between the two teams to see the major difference in quality and the contrast in how realistic each dev was regarding what was done and what their goals were.
FIrst of all, stop posting lies, I was playing Xyson at release The Main Owner which is jordi/Xsyon talk to the community and still does since day 1...
He failed because he trusted people that were suppose to help him, and scammed him, they had piss poor programming, he even told people, but people love to twist lies on the net..
PS: You people bashing Indies stick to your WOW clones then, many of us like games like Dark Fall, Xsyon, Repop etc.. Also to the poster that said he is waiting for a publisher, LOL, LOL, most publisher is the reason games are ruined, they dictate how the game is ran and what gets in and doesn't. tabula rasa MMO FAILED because of the publisher thats why they got sued...!!!
People think that having a publisher makes it better, wrong... It helps with money but alot of publisher get in the way, I would rather have a company that didn't have one so they can make the game they want to, not some greedy publisher who only cares about a fast buck..
The reason MMO's suck today is because of the new type of gamers, they ruin every game for me when I enter the chat and hear whining, and I want this for free, also forums does sometimes as well, with the whole I want this now!! I want it for free!!!! They expect DEVS to work for free, heck you go work for free..
Most people have no clue what is all involved with making an MMO, I would like to see some of these whiners even make a flash game. They would have a heart attack and realize how tough making games and dealing with the public really is, its not worth it.
That is why most Devs are making Iphone, Android games to get away from MMO's they aren't worth it anymore. I give it 5 years and we will only have what we have thats it for MMO's. Mark my words, and I don't blame indie Devs or any for that matter.
its clear The Repop will fail because.. the OP isnt going to play it oh woah is us poor gamers.....
why must people keep going full retard.... you should never go full retard unless people have a time machine and can jump ahead say 5yrs to report back when X game is released and if its a total wash or not.. no one really can say if/when a game will flop or float Repop has alot of grand plans sure and theres a 50/50 shot it could bust but if the devs dont try no one will
frankly from what i have seen on Repop it looks interesting might not be something i would play long term as i rarely play anything long term (apart from my AOE1/2 and openttd) but it looks pretty stable from what they have released so far.
worth giving it a shot imo doom and gloom helps no one but the cookie cutter devs in all respect..
Originally posted by Zeppelin4It was a let down for me a long time ago. When the player shops had to be in pvp areas only that was it for me. Even in Eve online I can have my player shop where I want in high security space. It was doomed to be a very niche game with pvp as its main focus.
We have been mulling over that issue for awhile and haven't quite announced the solution (or well option) that might help with that issue yet. The real concern we have is moving to much of the features that drive a thriving player city out into a completely safe area is that most people will choose the solution that doesn't involve any risk. We plan on having some transport options and a bit of an adjustment to how the player cities work that we hopefully can sit down and detail further after PAX that should help (but not completely resolve this issue) for players looking to trade and run shops without getting hacked down running around out in the open world. It will come at some cost to the city owners, but part of building a thriving city will be attracting a wide variety of players.
There is a lot of PvE and PvP options to go around and the trick of course is trying to find the right balance to support both play styles and of course the hardcore server is for those who want to go further past what most players are willing to deal with in regards to casual PvP.
I understand that to some mmo gamers, risk of loss is paramount to a worthwhile experience. It is a community built on survival. I have never really enjoyed those types of mmos. But to each their own.
It's not necessarily risk of loss that is appealing, but that the loss helps contributes to a dynamic economy. In Eve, when your stuff is destroyed you have to acquire some sort of replacement and that replacement will have been crafted by a player (and thankfully, stuff actually gets destroyed and deleted from the game, instead of everything just getting shuffled amongst the playerbase) So the people finding resources, making stuff, and blowing stuff up all have a role in keeping the economy wheel turning.
-------- "Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt: Front: UNO Chemistry Club Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
The fact is, this small Dev team has bitten off far more then they can chew. EVERY SINGLE indie sandbox in recent years has been crushed under the eight of its own ambition...........
Um you forget every major company in the field today started out as an Indie company. If the game is good, if they put in effort, and if they don't change their ways to try to please everyone for profits then they have a shot. You also forget this game already has 100 times more than your average new aged mmo released, the last 5 years has been a joke in the field. We may need indie companies to come in and set the others straight. Most the big dogs are still trying to ride the WOW success and think F2P will make mmorpg's better (granted this game sadly will be F2P). They have come a long way already.
Originally posted by Zeppelin4 It was a let down for me a long time ago. When the player shops had to be in pvp areas only that was it for me. Even in Eve online I can have my player shop where I want in high security space. It was doomed to be a very niche game with pvp as its main focus.
We have been mulling over that issue for awhile and haven't quite announced the solution (or well option) that might help with that issue yet. The real concern we have is moving to much of the features that drive a thriving player city out into a completely safe area is that most people will choose the solution that doesn't involve any risk. We plan on having some transport options and a bit of an adjustment to how the player cities work that we hopefully can sit down and detail further after PAX that should help (but not completely resolve this issue) for players looking to trade and run shops without getting hacked down running around out in the open world. It will come at some cost to the city owners, but part of building a thriving city will be attracting a wide variety of players.
There is a lot of PvE and PvP options to go around and the trick of course is trying to find the right balance to support both play styles and of course the hardcore server is for those who want to go further past what most players are willing to deal with in regards to casual PvP.
It's great to hear a level and well reasonsed responce here. Leaders are often taught that what their people need is not always what their people want. It is very true. If the developers of MMOs give in to player demands without considering the reasoning behind the original intent or carefully considering the hollistic impact of the requested change, that is when a game begins a steady decline into player-led destruction.
I know many game play styles that friends of mine have not wanted to participate in, but when a game mechanic prods them out of their comfort zone and they need to get involved in that play style, they often come to love it.
Perhaps what is needed is a system that allows mulitple routes to the same end goal, each with their own attractive reason for choosing that route?
Alternatively, how about looking back on SWG. It had a planet wide Auction House/Bazaar market, where all could trade freely from large NPC cities or across the globe, but it also had the full blown player shops. Both were succesfull and viable means.
Comments
Actually MO was developed on the Unreal engine, definitely not something cobbled together in-house. However, the devs practically killed the game by blatantly helping to their Alpha-buddy guilds gain the upper hand and incompetent bug fixing (fix 1 thing, break 10).
Most of the indy sandboxes failed because their developers didn't have the understanding or the know-how to create a functional sandbox with intertwined PVP/economy/politics systems in place, they either catered to the PVE crowd and failed after they couldn't keep developing "content" fast enough, or they catered to the PVP crowd and failed after the game devolved into a team-deathmatch arena. Others failed because they seem to have presumed "indy" gives a carte blanche to ship any kind of buggy shit they feel like and spam the "small team with limited resources" excuse ad-infinitum while charging AAA prices.
Only EVE managed to create the cross-over between game mechanics required to flesh out a sandbox, and they did it by developing their game logically. From my practical experience, any indy sandbox that is developed with the intent to cater to a specific demographic or unconditionally cater to everyone with no regard for logic is already doomed to fail from the get-go.
Over the years I've played indy games, I've developed a check-list I go through before even getting into the process of thinking about giving money to an indy sandbox dev team:
[ ] - Are there guilds suspiciously too close to the Dev team
[ ] - Are most of the game-mechanics still on the "drawing board"
[ ] - Is the Dev team blindly trying to cater to everyone at the same time
[ ] - Do they seem like they know WTF they're talking about
Hell is gonna freeze before an indy team sees any money from me if one of those doesn't check out. Been there done that, never again!
Best advice I can give to anyone getting into indy sandboxes is don't give them any money for "potential" in some vague future, give them money if you're satisfied with the released game when you see it. It's incredibly easy to write awesome blocks of text about game features, whole different bucket of bolts to actually develop them so the features function in synchrony. Always read between the lines people, it'll save you a lot of money and a lot of time.
EVE did it right and thats why they got ~500k subs. Most indy sandboxes don't, thats why they end up with ~10-100 diehard fanboys playing.
More on-topic, I stand by what I said before here when it comes to Repop: I'll wait and see what the game's like. Certainly doesn't hurt to try.
Why "blindly accept" anything about any game development? This is pretty much the only game I'll be playing when it comes out, but I don't blindly accept every feature of it and I'm sure it's going to have problems like any game that will have to be worked on. We've all been hit with nearly every combo of game type and payment model at this point and have been burned for the most part, so I've given up trying to predict the future. The main reason I'm set on this game is because it's actually not taking huge bites. Many of the features and objects in game we've seen before with a bit of a current flavor along with a few modern features as either stand alone or in conjunction. This development to me feels sort of like a patch to two or three games I used to play and the fact that they're not going crazy with "new" and "innovation" and are simply making what looks like a playable open world game is why I follow it.
I get why you have your reservations and I understand your point, but I've played enough games at this point to know what I want in a game and what to be wary of and I can weigh the strengths and weaknesses for myself of any game and make my own decision.
Never give up and never surrender!
Also, Fallen Earth went the same way. The company did everything right, as far as development and the community and all that.
But it did not help the game come out any better than average.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I'm following Repopulation closely and with interest, but also a healthy dose of scepticism.
It does have a very impressive feature list. It also has a fairly small dev team who appear to have a fairly limited budget.
Not saying they fill fail, but it looks a bit shaky to me.
One unfortunate side-effect of having many interesting and complicated systems in the game is that the underlying code becomes quite complex. That in turn means that the potential for bugs and (especially) exploits rises significantly. Combine that with F2P and you have Hacker's Heaven.
It's a FFA-PVP game (the most significant part is, anyway) with territorial conquest, which is enough to get the cheaters lining-up to "play". It's F2P, so the penalty for getting caught is zero.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I kind of see the dilemma, how do you impart that old west feel to a game world, when most gamers have no morals, honor, or integrity.
How do you build a world that allows open player killing, without it becoming about nothing but player killing.
It takes far less griefers to destroy a game and its community than it does for non griefers to build it.
The real problem here is the game is F2P, F2P is the death of any MMO that is trying to build a player driven community.
People can make an account run through creating chaos, destruction, anger and frustration, and yet face no penalty for doing so, having nothing at risk for doing so. Not even reputation, as they can just make a new account and do it all over again.
For repop to build what they are hoping for, they are basically counting on the best of gamer integrity.
Problem is we as a people, especially on a virtual level, have lost nearly all of our humanity, we are regressing, there are studies showing overall humanity is using less of its brain, yet more of the agressive centers of our brains.
Historically even the worst outlaws had morals, and codes of honor. Many of them were even respectful of their victims.
Most of the true violence was towards law enforcement, and other outlaws.
Granted there have always been exceptions through history of psychopaths, some of which rose to incredible levels of power.
There is a lot of PvE and PvP options to go around and the trick of course is trying to find the right balance to support both play styles and of course the hardcore server is for those who want to go further past what most players are willing to deal with in regards to casual PvP.
I understand that to some mmo gamers, risk of loss is paramount to a worthwhile experience. It is a community built on survival. I have never really enjoyed those types of mmos. But to each their own.
It's actually nothing at all like Xsyon, as that team
- talked about being "80% feature complete' and other BS but had none of it done.
- had little playable prior to release, and barely any playable content at release
- an unstable, small team working on it.
There was nothing good or communicative about Xsyon's dev team. Most of what was relayed was done so by their forum guy. What little was relayed by the dev was pipedreams, 'big' plans and wishful thinking.
As wowclonez said, compare the videos between the two teams to see the major difference in quality and the contrast in how realistic each dev was regarding what was done and what their goals were.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
FIrst of all, stop posting lies, I was playing Xyson at release The Main Owner which is jordi/Xsyon talk to the community and still does since day 1...
He failed because he trusted people that were suppose to help him, and scammed him, they had piss poor programming, he even told people, but people love to twist lies on the net..
PS: You people bashing Indies stick to your WOW clones then, many of us like games like Dark Fall, Xsyon, Repop etc.. Also to the poster that said he is waiting for a publisher, LOL, LOL, most publisher is the reason games are ruined, they dictate how the game is ran and what gets in and doesn't. tabula rasa MMO FAILED because of the publisher thats why they got sued...!!!
People think that having a publisher makes it better, wrong... It helps with money but alot of publisher get in the way, I would rather have a company that didn't have one so they can make the game they want to, not some greedy publisher who only cares about a fast buck..
The reason MMO's suck today is because of the new type of gamers, they ruin every game for me when I enter the chat and hear whining, and I want this for free, also forums does sometimes as well, with the whole I want this now!! I want it for free!!!! They expect DEVS to work for free, heck you go work for free..
Most people have no clue what is all involved with making an MMO, I would like to see some of these whiners even make a flash game. They would have a heart attack and realize how tough making games and dealing with the public really is, its not worth it.
That is why most Devs are making Iphone, Android games to get away from MMO's they aren't worth it anymore. I give it 5 years and we will only have what we have thats it for MMO's. Mark my words, and I don't blame indie Devs or any for that matter.
its clear The Repop will fail because.. the OP isnt going to play it
oh woah is us poor gamers.....
why must people keep going full retard.... you should never go full retard
unless people have a time machine and can jump ahead say 5yrs to report back when X game is released and if its a total wash or not.. no one really can say if/when a game will flop or float 
Repop has alot of grand plans sure and theres a 50/50 shot it could bust but if the devs dont try no one will 
frankly from what i have seen on Repop it looks interesting might not be something i would play long term as i rarely play anything long term (apart from my AOE1/2 and openttd) but it looks pretty stable from what they have released so far.
worth giving it a shot imo
doom and gloom helps no one but the cookie cutter devs in all respect..
It's not necessarily risk of loss that is appealing, but that the loss helps contributes to a dynamic economy. In Eve, when your stuff is destroyed you have to acquire some sort of replacement and that replacement will have been crafted by a player (and thankfully, stuff actually gets destroyed and deleted from the game, instead of everything just getting shuffled amongst the playerbase) So the people finding resources, making stuff, and blowing stuff up all have a role in keeping the economy wheel turning.
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
Pretty much this...
Um you forget every major company in the field today started out as an Indie company. If the game is good, if they put in effort, and if they don't change their ways to try to please everyone for profits then they have a shot. You also forget this game already has 100 times more than your average new aged mmo released, the last 5 years has been a joke in the field. We may need indie companies to come in and set the others straight. Most the big dogs are still trying to ride the WOW success and think F2P will make mmorpg's better (granted this game sadly will be F2P). They have come a long way already.
It's great to hear a level and well reasonsed responce here. Leaders are often taught that what their people need is not always what their people want.
It is very true. If the developers of MMOs give in to player demands without considering the reasoning behind the original intent or carefully considering the hollistic impact of the requested change, that is when a game begins a steady decline into player-led destruction.
I know many game play styles that friends of mine have not wanted to participate in, but when a game mechanic prods them out of their comfort zone and they need to get involved in that play style, they often come to love it.
Perhaps what is needed is a system that allows mulitple routes to the same end goal, each with their own attractive reason for choosing that route?
Alternatively, how about looking back on SWG. It had a planet wide Auction House/Bazaar market, where all could trade freely from large NPC cities or across the globe, but it also had the full blown player shops. Both were succesfull and viable means.