Originally posted by aleos I'm trying to think of games that do this and end up actually being good games... can't think of any..
That do what? That's a bit of a broad statement.
that offer founder deals. marvel heroes and neverwinter come to mind instantly.
Neverwinter did not have the audacity to charge us for the builder tools. They gave those to us for free. SOE is charging us for the tools to build content they intend to add to EQNext.
So basically instead of paying devs to create content, we are paying them to allow us to create content.
When you really think about it this is the ultimate in corporate greed.
What are you talking about? You certainly did pay for the higher end founder pack for access to the foundry first. In fact the packages from Neverwinter weren't cumulative, as they are in EQ. And wasn't the highest end pack for Neverwinter $200?
Not to mention the only reason to play Neverwinter is because of the founder, but the people that create the awesome missions (which are insanely time consuming to do well) dont get any money from it.
I can't tell what the lowest common denominator among MMORPG players is: WoW bashers or SoE bashers. But its definitely one of those two groups.
Why do you just pre-order your TESO and enjoy your cup of same-old outdated crap MMORPG gameplay and leave the future to the rest of us...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I'm guessing that the definition of alpha and beta has changed, as well as processes around how to obtain access.
Once upon a time it was a privilege to be granted beta access and because of that, the player took the responsibility seriously enough to actually test and provide feedback, thus ensuring invites to beta the next time around.
Today, it's a way to monetize as early as possible and get your playerbase to pay to test your game. For players with money to toss around, it's a way to see if there is room to influence and/or invest in for the long haul. Either way, it's win/win for those interested enough to participate. And for anyone else, it's just another sign of the times.
I am cool with paying to play pretty much anything. Corps need to make their money, and I get that. I am just amazed at the marketing here, they are getting people to *pay* to design some of their content. Brilliant.
Not saying I won't do it too, but it is pretty ingenious marketing. Make part of the design team the players, which is cool, but also have them fork over some $$ to do it.
I am cool with paying to play pretty much anything. Corps need to make their money, and I get that. I am just amazed at the marketing here, they are getting people to *pay* to design some of their content. Brilliant.
Not saying I won't do it too, but it is pretty ingenious marketing. Make part of the design team the players, which is cool, but also have them fork over some $$ to do it.
Ingenious marketing has nothing to do with it.
This has been a long time coming. The modding community has been in the MILLIONS for over a decade. Oblivion's was so damn big and popular that the company worked directly with the modding community and even Steam to make sure that modders had the software and a way to get their mods out to more people BEFORE Skyrim was released. Then look at the Sims, massive modding community so large that Spore was designed with them in mind. Now look at Minecraft...now add that with RPGs like Dragons Age, NWN...RPGMaker. It was only a matter of time before MMORPGs broke out of that small tiny box its been kept in since UO.
EQN, Landmark and Shroud of the Avatar are what the future is all about. Players having a direct hand in the actual game world AND have a way to make money of their work...something that was extremely difficult to do before.
This only gives me yet another reason to LAUGH at the effort being made to make sure TESO is as little TES as possible because of the small minds behind it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I'm not so sure about paying to make content for SoE. Either way a person will be getting something of value for their time and effort, else they wouldn't do it.
You're either:
A. Getting noteriety for having something you created put into EQN.
or
B. Getting a 40% cut everytime someone buys your design or buys land you have claimed.
In fact, one could look at a founders pack as an investment. Depending on what you plan to do with what it gives you the money could come back and then some.
The only thing this business model says to me is that SoE investors are nervous, don't trust what they have seen in the past from SoE and want proof of concept before bankrolling this EQN venture.
I refuse to spend good hard earned money on this until it proves itself as a sound game.
The only thing this business model says to me is that SoE investors are nervous, don't trust what they have seen in the past from SoE and want proof of concept before bankrolling this EQN venture.
I refuse to spend good hard earned money on this until it proves itself as a sound game.
What business model? Founders packs? Be done and proven to help further fund a project. Paying modders? That, that is new...but that is also something that is NOT nefarious...in fact, its a sure fire way to bring in the good modders that have been making them for FREE for such a long time.
It provides constant new content for the game. Provides infinite growth for the game. Provides players with something that few MMOs have ever given before...a way to actually create the game world.
Now, if they had stated that they were going to charge people money to place their creations up for sale while charging a monthly subscription fee...then I would see your point.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by LIOKI So called "Founders packs". Lets be more obvious.
I had that in my post...and its been proven to help fund a project. Answered twice now.
Oh wait, you would rather have another SWTOR where a company spends way over budget and gets a half assed release because they could no longer develop the game? Perhaps get what we are going to get with TESO where yet again a large sum of money is being spent on voiceovers...once that NDA is lifted...cant wait to be able to speak completely.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
After scrapping two versions of the next everquest yeah I'm sure they are looking for a little early compensation. The fact they were willing to scrap another generic themepark model for a voxel based sandbox is enough to get my support, and money
After the character models the FTP thing is my next biggest concern. SOE is just scary with cash shops.
I was in the beta/founding of Dragons Prophet and holy hell did they nickel and dime that game into oblivion. In order to have unrestricted fun in that game you had to spend far more money a month than any subscription.
I also found both EQ and EQ2 are absolutely unplayable in FTP mode for returning vets. You log in and are not allowed to use any of the gear you quested/grinded for on your main. You cant go hunt for gear because you are essentially naked and weaponless. And then when you go to the "bazaar" to buy some gear you ARE allowed to use...it costs more than the plat/gold limit placed on your account.....*facepalm*
I would rather pay $100 for the box and $25 a month than have a "free" game where they "revalue" everything every few weeks and charge a fortune for you to remain up to date and/or competetive.
OMG !!! A company actually trying to make money !! What are they thinking they should give everything for free, not charge, but pay millions to develop a game.
Simple if you don't believe in the game, don't pay, I've done that for many F2P games, but if I enjoy something I have no problem paying for it.
They shouldn't have come out saying this was free number 1.
I see someone is new to the way the industry works
founders packs are the norm for f2p games.
And If I were letting people into my Alpha I would want people with a financial commitment to the game, because they are more likely to test and provide meaningful feedback.
They shouldn't have come out saying this was free number 1.
Number 2, whats with the space suits? I always thought EQ was pretty much D&D.
Do you have to BUY the game?
Do you have to pay a subscription to play it?
No to both, its free.
As for the space suits...this is not your typical trapped in a small box MMO like you have been trapped in the past decade. The game has a large sized creation tool allowing players to CREATE ENTIRE AREAS and thus is only limited to the players themselves allowing us to create any timeline for adventuring.
I know I know, but that requires an imagination and we are sooo used to being told everything while having our hands held.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Paying a company money, to be able to create content for their own game, that you will then pay even more money for, in order to play with your own content that you made earlier, that you also paid for.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Paying a company money, to be able to create content for their own game, that you will then pay even more money for, in order to play with your own content that you made earlier, that you also paid for.
I bought Oblivion
I made mods for Oblivion
I made no money on my mods for Oblivion.
EQN/Landmark is going to be FREE but I can choose to pay to get the mod tools faster
I will make mods for it
I will make money on my mods for it
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
After the character models the FTP thing is my next biggest concern. SOE is just scary with cash shops.
I also found both EQ and EQ2 are absolutely unplayable in FTP mode for returning vets. You log in and are not allowed to use any of the gear you quested/grinded for on your main.
SOE was worried about losing their shirts and were too restrictive
in the last year, SOE has removed the restrictions from gear, race, class, coin, bank, bags in EQ2
Originally posted by rommello founder packs should always be after a few weeks of public beta testing, anything earlier is a greedy scam
Did you even READ ANYTHING about it at all?
Landmark Alpha is going to be testers working WITH the developers, they need to get the modding tools into peoples hands earlier not later...player creations in Alpha...can be part of the game in beta AND release. May not be many player creations, but there CAN BE. It also means that we are able to give a greater amount of feedback on game design by learning what can and cant be created for it early on.
Hence the developer round tables with the testers.
It also means that those of us that have actually created mods before will be experienced and able to create right from the start increasing YOUR enjoyment of the game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Comments
Not to mention the only reason to play Neverwinter is because of the founder, but the people that create the awesome missions (which are insanely time consuming to do well) dont get any money from it.
I can't tell what the lowest common denominator among MMORPG players is: WoW bashers or SoE bashers. But its definitely one of those two groups.
Oh joy another one of these threads.
Why do you just pre-order your TESO and enjoy your cup of same-old outdated crap MMORPG gameplay and leave the future to the rest of us...
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I'm guessing that the definition of alpha and beta has changed, as well as processes around how to obtain access.
Once upon a time it was a privilege to be granted beta access and because of that, the player took the responsibility seriously enough to actually test and provide feedback, thus ensuring invites to beta the next time around.
Today, it's a way to monetize as early as possible and get your playerbase to pay to test your game. For players with money to toss around, it's a way to see if there is room to influence and/or invest in for the long haul. Either way, it's win/win for those interested enough to participate. And for anyone else, it's just another sign of the times.
I am cool with paying to play pretty much anything. Corps need to make their money, and I get that. I am just amazed at the marketing here, they are getting people to *pay* to design some of their content. Brilliant.
Not saying I won't do it too, but it is pretty ingenious marketing. Make part of the design team the players, which is cool, but also have them fork over some $$ to do it.
Ingenious marketing has nothing to do with it.
This has been a long time coming. The modding community has been in the MILLIONS for over a decade. Oblivion's was so damn big and popular that the company worked directly with the modding community and even Steam to make sure that modders had the software and a way to get their mods out to more people BEFORE Skyrim was released. Then look at the Sims, massive modding community so large that Spore was designed with them in mind. Now look at Minecraft...now add that with RPGs like Dragons Age, NWN...RPGMaker. It was only a matter of time before MMORPGs broke out of that small tiny box its been kept in since UO.
EQN, Landmark and Shroud of the Avatar are what the future is all about. Players having a direct hand in the actual game world AND have a way to make money of their work...something that was extremely difficult to do before.
This only gives me yet another reason to LAUGH at the effort being made to make sure TESO is as little TES as possible because of the small minds behind it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
You're either:
A. Getting noteriety for having something you created put into EQN.
or
B. Getting a 40% cut everytime someone buys your design or buys land you have claimed.
In fact, one could look at a founders pack as an investment. Depending on what you plan to do with what it gives you the money could come back and then some.
The only thing this business model says to me is that SoE investors are nervous, don't trust what they have seen in the past from SoE and want proof of concept before bankrolling this EQN venture.
I refuse to spend good hard earned money on this until it proves itself as a sound game.
What business model? Founders packs? Be done and proven to help further fund a project. Paying modders? That, that is new...but that is also something that is NOT nefarious...in fact, its a sure fire way to bring in the good modders that have been making them for FREE for such a long time.
It provides constant new content for the game. Provides infinite growth for the game. Provides players with something that few MMOs have ever given before...a way to actually create the game world.
Now, if they had stated that they were going to charge people money to place their creations up for sale while charging a monthly subscription fee...then I would see your point.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I had that in my post...and its been proven to help fund a project. Answered twice now.
Oh wait, you would rather have another SWTOR where a company spends way over budget and gets a half assed release because they could no longer develop the game? Perhaps get what we are going to get with TESO where yet again a large sum of money is being spent on voiceovers...once that NDA is lifted...cant wait to be able to speak completely.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
After the character models the FTP thing is my next biggest concern. SOE is just scary with cash shops.
I was in the beta/founding of Dragons Prophet and holy hell did they nickel and dime that game into oblivion. In order to have unrestricted fun in that game you had to spend far more money a month than any subscription.
I also found both EQ and EQ2 are absolutely unplayable in FTP mode for returning vets. You log in and are not allowed to use any of the gear you quested/grinded for on your main. You cant go hunt for gear because you are essentially naked and weaponless. And then when you go to the "bazaar" to buy some gear you ARE allowed to use...it costs more than the plat/gold limit placed on your account.....*facepalm*
I would rather pay $100 for the box and $25 a month than have a "free" game where they "revalue" everything every few weeks and charge a fortune for you to remain up to date and/or competetive.
OMG !!! A company actually trying to make money !! What are they thinking they should give everything for free, not charge, but pay millions to develop a game.
Simple if you don't believe in the game, don't pay, I've done that for many F2P games, but if I enjoy something I have no problem paying for it.
SoE doesnt have investors as far as I know. Pretty sure all their development funds come from the limited profits on their games.
Sony obviously has investors, but SoE is an insignificant part of Sony overall.
They shouldn't have come out saying this was free number 1.
Number 2, whats with the space suits? I always thought EQ was pretty much D&D.
I see someone is new to the way the industry works
founders packs are the norm for f2p games.
And If I were letting people into my Alpha I would want people with a financial commitment to the game, because they are more likely to test and provide meaningful feedback.
Do you have to BUY the game?
Do you have to pay a subscription to play it?
No to both, its free.
As for the space suits...this is not your typical trapped in a small box MMO like you have been trapped in the past decade. The game has a large sized creation tool allowing players to CREATE ENTIRE AREAS and thus is only limited to the players themselves allowing us to create any timeline for adventuring.
I know I know, but that requires an imagination and we are sooo used to being told everything while having our hands held.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Paying a company money, to be able to create content for their own game, that you will then pay even more money for, in order to play with your own content that you made earlier, that you also paid for.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
I bought Oblivion
I made mods for Oblivion
I made no money on my mods for Oblivion.
EQN/Landmark is going to be FREE but I can choose to pay to get the mod tools faster
I will make mods for it
I will make money on my mods for it
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
SOE was worried about losing their shirts and were too restrictive
in the last year, SOE has removed the restrictions from gear, race, class, coin, bank, bags in EQ2
EQ2 fan sites
EQN is Norrath style
Landmark is anything goes .. bring on the pink elephants
EQ2 fan sites
anything earlier is a greedy scam
hallo ~_~
Did you even READ ANYTHING about it at all?
Landmark Alpha is going to be testers working WITH the developers, they need to get the modding tools into peoples hands earlier not later...player creations in Alpha...can be part of the game in beta AND release. May not be many player creations, but there CAN BE. It also means that we are able to give a greater amount of feedback on game design by learning what can and cant be created for it early on.
Hence the developer round tables with the testers.
It also means that those of us that have actually created mods before will be experienced and able to create right from the start increasing YOUR enjoyment of the game.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson