You have to remember, the people in beta who actually like and respect the game/NDA are less likely to say anything. The people who hated it though are more than willing to go around bashing it.
Ironically, that's exactly why some of us don't respect NDAs. People who don't like the game are more willing to break NDA, since they don't care if they get beta locked, meaning that the only information you've prevented getting out is the good stuff.
Personally, my little bit of time in the beta I've had a love/hate relationship with ESO. The world is beautiful, but you don't get the sense of scale that you do with TES games, the zones I've played are very small with none of the atmosphere that Skyrim has. Character models are nice, but terrain models so far are some of the worst in current MMOs. The game tries to break away from 'hub' quest model by having quests sprinkled around, but if you're in the right vicinity in a small zone the quest giver will run up to you to get your attention, so you don't feel like you've 'discovered' anything so much as tripped a script trigger.
Overall it's just kind of there. Out of maybe 10 hours playing I haven't had one moment where I say "this is awesome" or "this is awful".
Now to see if I get beta banned and play something else instead . . .
Thanks for the feedback. Regardless, I'm not discouraged by what you wrote because if you played about 10 hours, you would not have been able to see much of the higher level zones which may be size wise not the same as the starter zones or the zone directly after the starter zone. Hopefully these 'trigger scripts' become less obvious later on down the line and you get a sense of true exploration. Perhaps they simplified things in the first 10-15 levels to get newbies adapted to the game, who knows. I'll remain cautiously optimistic that my sense of exploration will not be ruined at higher levels and that they will continue to improve the game between now and release which for all we know will be pushed back further. Also, your feedback rgarding the terrain is completely opposite from what I've read from leaked sites and other players who played, but opinions are just that, opinions, so thanks.
Honestly, it felt like GW2 and Neverwinter had a baby, and they dressed it up to look like Elder Scrolls. Very fun to play, but did not feel like Elder Scrolls to me.
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Originally posted by Boreil Why do people keep bringing Neverwinter into this, ESO looks nothing like it not even close, they have nothing in common other than both being online games.
Neverwinter must get mentioned from people who only play a very narrow list of games, including WoW, non-MMOs, and non-computer games.
Seriously, other Elder Scrolls games notwithstanding, ESO has more in common with Witcher or Fallout than Neverwinter or WoW...
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
Originally posted by Boreil Why do people keep bringing Neverwinter into this, ESO looks nothing like it not even close, they have nothing in common other than both being online games.
One of the first things you hear about ESO is it's heavily instanced. So the first "mmo" that pops into my mind when I hear that is never winter.
I've since learned that they are nothing alike in that respect. So the comparison is probably from people going off very little info.
Originally posted by Boreil Why do people keep bringing Neverwinter into this, ESO looks nothing like it not even close, they have nothing in common other than both being online games.
One of the first things you hear about ESO is it's heavily instanced. So the first "mmo" that pops into my mind when I hear that is never winter.
I've since learned that they are nothing alike in that respect. So the comparison is probably from people going off very little info.
It's not really just the instanced world, it also has to do with the hotbar soft target action combat when you play in 3rd person. 1 potion skill, 5 skills and 1 ultimate.
The art style and graphics have changed in every single Elder Scrolls game, this doesn't really define what the game is like. Graphics aren't what really matter in a game.
And what "Is" an elder scrolls game?
ESO doesn't have the graphics.
ESO doesn't have the combat.
ESO doesn't have the freedom of choice either racial or factionally.
ESO doesn't have the gameplay since its all been changed for their rather old view of what an MMO is.
ESO doesn't have the lore since they changed it so the empire can be both attacked and taken over even thou the lore states that Tiber Septim is the person who eventually conquerors the Empires lands, even in Morrowind it states that the only time the Empire was attacked after the fall of the last protector it was stopped at Morrowind.
ESO doesn't have the open world.
ESO doesn't have scalable content.
ESO doesn't have the modding ability. Sorry but Neverwinter via the Foundry, Shroud of the Avatar and EQ Landmark WILL so don't tell me MMOs cant have it.
ESO locks you into classes and basically into the trinity not to mention locking most skills into the weapon you have equipped. I mean really, making it so a sorc must have a restoration staff equipped in order to heal in an ES game?!?
So what does ESO have that is TES? It has the name in the title and it took the names of places. This would be no different than CBS making a modern day sitcom and naming it The Lord of the Rings. Sorry, you can call it that but that doesn't make it what you named it.
We already know that an MMO can be made open world(too many to name). We already know an MMO can be made without racial/faction locks(too many to name). We already know an MMO can be made without classes(AC1, TSW). We already know an MMO can be made with the ability to create things in game via a foundry(CoH, STO, NWO, SotA, EQ:L). We already know that the combat could have been kept in this MMO(any MMO with action combat). And we already know that if they hadn't of patterned the game off of DaoC they wouldn't have had to butcher the lore, break the world into locked pieces or lock races or factions.
This doesn't tell me the makers of the game wanted to make an online TES game, they wanted to recreate their first MMO and needed a more popular IP to do it with. Kinda sad really because most of these limitations are not necessary. Worse yet, the series that is always moving forward and pushing the limits of its genre is now going to be represented by an MMO that is trying to regress into the past.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by Margulis To each their own I guess, sure felt like Elder Scrolls to me. A lot more than I anticipated actually.
/agreed
Not sure how they pulled it off, i was overly impressed and I can say I have been gaming since 95" so to be impressed is really saying something, of course none of you know me from Adam but yeah.
The game will be good IMO and I might make it my "go to" game if they implement some of the things that I have been looking for since Shadowbane, SWG, UO, DoCA.
The art style and graphics have changed in every single Elder Scrolls game, this doesn't really define what the game is like. Graphics aren't what really matter in a game.
And what "Is" an elder scrolls game?
ESO doesn't have the graphics.
ESO doesn't have the combat.
ESO doesn't have the freedom of choice either racial or factionally.
ESO doesn't have the gameplay since its all been changed for their rather old view of what an MMO is.
ESO doesn't have the lore since they changed it so the empire can be both attacked and taken over even thou the lore states that Tiber Septim is the person who eventually conquerors the Empires lands, even in Morrowind it states that the only time the Empire was attacked after the fall of the last protector it was stopped at Morrowind.
ESO doesn't have the open world.
ESO doesn't have scalable content.
ESO doesn't have the modding ability. Sorry but Neverwinter via the Foundry, Shroud of the Avatar and EQ Landmark WILL so don't tell me MMOs cant have it.
ESO locks you into classes and basically into the trinity not to mention locking most skills into the weapon you have equipped. I mean really, making it so a sorc must have a restoration staff equipped in order to heal in an ES game?!?
So what does ESO have that is TES? It has the name in the title and it took the names of places. This would be no different than CBS making a modern day sitcom and naming it The Lord of the Rings. Sorry, you can call it that but that doesn't make it what you named it.
We already know that an MMO can be made open world(too many to name). We already know an MMO can be made without racial/faction locks(too many to name). We already know an MMO can be made without classes(AC1, TSW). We already know an MMO can be made with the ability to create things in game via a foundry(CoH, STO, NWO, SotA, EQ:L). We already know that the combat could have been kept in this MMO(any MMO with action combat). And we already know that if they hadn't of patterned the game off of DaoC they wouldn't have had to butcher the lore, break the world into locked pieces or lock races or factions.
This doesn't tell me the makers of the game wanted to make an online TES game, they wanted to recreate their first MMO and needed a more popular IP to do it with. Kinda sad really because most of these limitations are not necessary. Worse yet, the series that is always moving forward and pushing the limits of its genre is now going to be represented by an MMO that is trying to regress into the past.
"ESO doesn't have the freedom of choice either racial or factionally."
I'll take this one. Welcome to grown up pvp. You don't get to hop around with no recognition of lore and RP depth between factions. You, like many of the heroes you have read about (I would hope) in novels, in many of the movies you have seen, from Star Wars to Lord of the Rings...get to be a loyal hero of your realm.
In short, you get to feel pride in the defense of your realm, fighting enemies that are different than you are. There's two variables you won't find in 99% of mmorpgs on the market since Dark Age of Camelot.
Secondly, if this mmo has too much RPG in it for you, there are plenty of cosmetic lore based games with many E-Sport events you can join. Rift, Guild Wars, to name a few.
And for those who are wondering, I was in the BETA, but acknowledging the NDA means I can't go in depth. But, for those Dark Age of Camelot fans - (folks who really played end game RvR for years on end)...I'll bet you love the sense and feel of the title.
The very first screen shots of ESO were from the Hero Engine 2.0 prototypes they were working on prior to working on their in house engine which we now use in beta, some gamers get these screen shots mixed up with the current status of the game and will compare it to WoW, which in reality really doesn't apply. I liked my hands on experience with the game but I want to see where crafting takes us prior to release in beta. But count me in with you!
Originally posted by Schnizle I agree; I liked what I saw in the beta. It's a lot like Skyrim, with multiplayer.
Same here.. It felt just like Skyrim. I can't wait for it to be released. I'll be playing the PS4 version!
Same here. Definitely feels like TES games. I am looking forward to have it as my second MMO.
Funny, because Skyrim really didn't feel like an Elder Scrolls to me. I had actually hoped that ESO would bring back more of a Morrowind feel to the series. Return the sense of unbound freedom and discovery. Unfortunately, it seems as if the series is stepping away a bit from its roots to accommodate the dare I say "casual" RPG audience. Its much more driven by action. To me Skyrim felt more like it was telling the tale of a hero in Skyrim rather than living out the life of unknown prisoner.
Originally posted by Boreil Why do people keep bringing Neverwinter into this, ESO looks nothing like it not even close, they have nothing in common other than both being online games.
One of the first things you hear about ESO is it's heavily instanced. So the first "mmo" that pops into my mind when I hear that is never winter.
I've since learned that they are nothing alike in that respect. So the comparison is probably from people going off very little info.
Yea lot of people don't actually read into thing's like public Dev blogs and updated web posts, or they would know the instancing thing is way off.
For those people.
Neverwinter is a dungeon crawler game much like DDO.
ESO is an OPEN WORLD massive multiplayer game, much like Daoc/EQ/Rift.
I'm a huge Elder Scrolls fan... but sadly the only things that made this feel like an Elder Scrolls game were the lore and music. Everything else was more like Neverwinter (which I do not enjoy). You can't even swim underwater in TESO... how's that for immersion?
Hopefully the game changes drastically before it goes live, I really want this game to be a success.
One could probably argue that it would have been better if they shot for a WoW clone and missed instead of shot for an MMO Elder Scrolls game and missed.
"ESO doesn't have the freedom of choice either racial or factionally."
I'll take this one. Welcome to grown up pvp. You don't get to hop around with no recognition of lore and RP depth between factions. You, like many of the heroes you have read about (I would hope) in novels, in many of the movies you have seen, from Star Wars to Lord of the Rings...get to be a loyal hero of your realm.
In short, you get to feel pride in the defense of your realm.
In other words you are a former DaoC player that requires that your pride be created for you. I however am not a themepark please hold my hand player. For example. SWG where you could, like in real life AND in novels...change sides at will.
Some people like to have their own will power, others like to be led around.
In TES games, you don't get led around, you have free will. which was also in the LORE where plenty changed sides.
Guess you shouldn't have taken this one eh?
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
ESO is an OPEN WORLD massive multiplayer game, much like Daoc/EQ/Rift.
Yet it isn't. You cannot run from one end of the world to the other and each factions lands are completely closed off from each other. BTW EQ had each zone required zoning into, nothing OPEN about that.
Open world is Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, SWG.
That's about all this game is, twisting the meaning of words in an attempt to make it seem more like TES games.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
One could probably argue that it would have been better if they shot for a WoW clone and missed instead of shot for an MMO Elder Scrolls game and missed.
Why are there classes again?
Because Elder Scrolls games have had classes for almost 20 years now.
ESO is an OPEN WORLD massive multiplayer game, much like Daoc/EQ/Rift.
Yet it isn't. You cannot run from one end of the world to the other and each factions lands are completely closed off from each other. BTW EQ had each zone required zoning into, nothing OPEN about that.
Open world is Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, SWG.
That's about all this game is, twisting the meaning of words in an attempt to make it seem more like TES games.
We already know and have been told many times the zones are much like a zone in WoW or Rift, and they are infact open, other than enemy lands ( which are open at 50) so its still very much an open world.
Also EQ on the ps2 had NO zones and NO loading, you could run from Freeport to qeynos or halas to grob etc etc and hit every dungeon on the way and never once see a loading screen or zone line.
Originally posted by Boreil Why do people keep bringing Neverwinter into this, ESO looks nothing like it not even close, they have nothing in common other than both being online games.
One of the first things you hear about ESO is it's heavily instanced. So the first "mmo" that pops into my mind when I hear that is never winter.
I've since learned that they are nothing alike in that respect. So the comparison is probably from people going off very little info.
It's not really just the instanced world, it also has to do with the hotbar soft target action combat when you play in 3rd person. 1 potion skill, 5 skills and 1 ultimate.
Neverwinter and ESO combats have nothing in common, not even the hotbar.
Neverwinter has two of its hotbar skills that are bound to the mouse right and left mouse buttons, these are spammable. 3 skills executed through the keyboard with cooldowns and two daily that share a resource that fill up by dealing damage. Each class also have a special ability that use a class related resource that fill up by dealing damage. It also has 3 potions slots. Each class get a single weapon to play with.
ESO has normal attacks, power attacks, active blocking, interrupts and cc-breaker bound to the mouse through different combo of the left+right buttons. Then you have a selection of 5 skills from skill lines that use either magicka and stamina. There is another slot for the ultimate that fill faster if you block/interrupt/avoid hits (aka play properly). You get a single potion slot and there are no cooldowns. At level 15 you get the switch weapon-set allowing you to have 12 skills in combat.
17 active abilities in ESO vs 6 in Neverwinter (I didn't count the potion slots).
Originally posted by sludgebeard Seriously, everyone who is hating on ESO just take it for what it really is, a new Elder Scrolls installment with multiplayer!
Seriously, how can you say that it's the same as the single player Elder Scrolls games?... Not even close, this MMO is much different from them, im not going to say that it's a WoW clone (tho it has many elements taken from it), but it's pretty much close to Neverwinter...
Comments
Thanks for the feedback. Regardless, I'm not discouraged by what you wrote because if you played about 10 hours, you would not have been able to see much of the higher level zones which may be size wise not the same as the starter zones or the zone directly after the starter zone. Hopefully these 'trigger scripts' become less obvious later on down the line and you get a sense of true exploration. Perhaps they simplified things in the first 10-15 levels to get newbies adapted to the game, who knows. I'll remain cautiously optimistic that my sense of exploration will not be ruined at higher levels and that they will continue to improve the game between now and release which for all we know will be pushed back further. Also, your feedback rgarding the terrain is completely opposite from what I've read from leaked sites and other players who played, but opinions are just that, opinions, so thanks.
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Neverwinter must get mentioned from people who only play a very narrow list of games, including WoW, non-MMOs, and non-computer games.
Seriously, other Elder Scrolls games notwithstanding, ESO has more in common with Witcher or Fallout than Neverwinter or WoW...
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
One of the first things you hear about ESO is it's heavily instanced. So the first "mmo" that pops into my mind when I hear that is never winter.
I've since learned that they are nothing alike in that respect. So the comparison is probably from people going off very little info.
It's not really just the instanced world, it also has to do with the hotbar soft target action combat when you play in 3rd person. 1 potion skill, 5 skills and 1 ultimate.
People keep saying this and I disagree with this statement, the only way the game felt like skyrim was combat and talking to NPC's.
And what "Is" an elder scrolls game?
ESO doesn't have the graphics.
ESO doesn't have the combat.
ESO doesn't have the freedom of choice either racial or factionally.
ESO doesn't have the gameplay since its all been changed for their rather old view of what an MMO is.
ESO doesn't have the lore since they changed it so the empire can be both attacked and taken over even thou the lore states that Tiber Septim is the person who eventually conquerors the Empires lands, even in Morrowind it states that the only time the Empire was attacked after the fall of the last protector it was stopped at Morrowind.
ESO doesn't have the open world.
ESO doesn't have scalable content.
ESO doesn't have the modding ability. Sorry but Neverwinter via the Foundry, Shroud of the Avatar and EQ Landmark WILL so don't tell me MMOs cant have it.
ESO locks you into classes and basically into the trinity not to mention locking most skills into the weapon you have equipped. I mean really, making it so a sorc must have a restoration staff equipped in order to heal in an ES game?!?
So what does ESO have that is TES? It has the name in the title and it took the names of places. This would be no different than CBS making a modern day sitcom and naming it The Lord of the Rings. Sorry, you can call it that but that doesn't make it what you named it.
We already know that an MMO can be made open world(too many to name). We already know an MMO can be made without racial/faction locks(too many to name). We already know an MMO can be made without classes(AC1, TSW). We already know an MMO can be made with the ability to create things in game via a foundry(CoH, STO, NWO, SotA, EQ:L). We already know that the combat could have been kept in this MMO(any MMO with action combat). And we already know that if they hadn't of patterned the game off of DaoC they wouldn't have had to butcher the lore, break the world into locked pieces or lock races or factions.
This doesn't tell me the makers of the game wanted to make an online TES game, they wanted to recreate their first MMO and needed a more popular IP to do it with. Kinda sad really because most of these limitations are not necessary. Worse yet, the series that is always moving forward and pushing the limits of its genre is now going to be represented by an MMO that is trying to regress into the past.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
/agreed
Not sure how they pulled it off, i was overly impressed and I can say I have been gaming since 95" so to be impressed is really saying something, of course none of you know me from Adam but yeah.
The game will be good IMO and I might make it my "go to" game if they implement some of the things that I have been looking for since Shadowbane, SWG, UO, DoCA.
"ESO doesn't have the freedom of choice either racial or factionally."
I'll take this one. Welcome to grown up pvp. You don't get to hop around with no recognition of lore and RP depth between factions. You, like many of the heroes you have read about (I would hope) in novels, in many of the movies you have seen, from Star Wars to Lord of the Rings...get to be a loyal hero of your realm.
In short, you get to feel pride in the defense of your realm, fighting enemies that are different than you are. There's two variables you won't find in 99% of mmorpgs on the market since Dark Age of Camelot.
Secondly, if this mmo has too much RPG in it for you, there are plenty of cosmetic lore based games with many E-Sport events you can join. Rift, Guild Wars, to name a few.
And for those who are wondering, I was in the BETA, but acknowledging the NDA means I can't go in depth. But, for those Dark Age of Camelot fans - (folks who really played end game RvR for years on end)...I'll bet you love the sense and feel of the title.
I love it - can't wait.
Same here. Definitely feels like TES games. I am looking forward to have it as my second MMO.
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The very first screen shots of ESO were from the Hero Engine 2.0 prototypes they were working on prior to working on their in house engine which we now use in beta, some gamers get these screen shots mixed up with the current status of the game and will compare it to WoW, which in reality really doesn't apply. I liked my hands on experience with the game but I want to see where crafting takes us prior to release in beta. But count me in with you!
Funny, because Skyrim really didn't feel like an Elder Scrolls to me. I had actually hoped that ESO would bring back more of a Morrowind feel to the series. Return the sense of unbound freedom and discovery. Unfortunately, it seems as if the series is stepping away a bit from its roots to accommodate the dare I say "casual" RPG audience. Its much more driven by action. To me Skyrim felt more like it was telling the tale of a hero in Skyrim rather than living out the life of unknown prisoner.
Yea lot of people don't actually read into thing's like public Dev blogs and updated web posts, or they would know the instancing thing is way off.
For those people.
Neverwinter is a dungeon crawler game much like DDO.
ESO is an OPEN WORLD massive multiplayer game, much like Daoc/EQ/Rift.
I'm a huge Elder Scrolls fan... but sadly the only things that made this feel like an Elder Scrolls game were the lore and music. Everything else was more like Neverwinter (which I do not enjoy). You can't even swim underwater in TESO... how's that for immersion?
Hopefully the game changes drastically before it goes live, I really want this game to be a success.
One could probably argue that it would have been better if they shot for a WoW clone and missed instead of shot for an MMO Elder Scrolls game and missed.
Why are there classes again?
In other words you are a former DaoC player that requires that your pride be created for you. I however am not a themepark please hold my hand player. For example. SWG where you could, like in real life AND in novels...change sides at will.
Some people like to have their own will power, others like to be led around.
In TES games, you don't get led around, you have free will. which was also in the LORE where plenty changed sides.
Guess you shouldn't have taken this one eh?
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Yet it isn't. You cannot run from one end of the world to the other and each factions lands are completely closed off from each other. BTW EQ had each zone required zoning into, nothing OPEN about that.
Open world is Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, SWG.
That's about all this game is, twisting the meaning of words in an attempt to make it seem more like TES games.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Because Elder Scrolls games have had classes for almost 20 years now.
We already know and have been told many times the zones are much like a zone in WoW or Rift, and they are infact open, other than enemy lands ( which are open at 50) so its still very much an open world.
Also EQ on the ps2 had NO zones and NO loading, you could run from Freeport to qeynos or halas to grob etc etc and hit every dungeon on the way and never once see a loading screen or zone line.
Neverwinter and ESO combats have nothing in common, not even the hotbar.
Neverwinter has two of its hotbar skills that are bound to the mouse right and left mouse buttons, these are spammable. 3 skills executed through the keyboard with cooldowns and two daily that share a resource that fill up by dealing damage. Each class also have a special ability that use a class related resource that fill up by dealing damage. It also has 3 potions slots. Each class get a single weapon to play with.
ESO has normal attacks, power attacks, active blocking, interrupts and cc-breaker bound to the mouse through different combo of the left+right buttons. Then you have a selection of 5 skills from skill lines that use either magicka and stamina. There is another slot for the ultimate that fill faster if you block/interrupt/avoid hits (aka play properly). You get a single potion slot and there are no cooldowns. At level 15 you get the switch weapon-set allowing you to have 12 skills in combat.
17 active abilities in ESO vs 6 in Neverwinter (I didn't count the potion slots).
Seriously, how can you say that it's the same as the single player Elder Scrolls games?... Not even close, this MMO is much different from them, im not going to say that it's a WoW clone (tho it has many elements taken from it), but it's pretty much close to Neverwinter...