You know as well as I do that when these games end up on consoles they end up being functional using only controllers for input. I suppose this shouldn't matter at all for players that don't ever chat anyway.
Let's be realistic. When a game is available for both console and PC, and has separate servers based on platform, how many of the people who care about chatting end up playing the console version anyway? It's a *good* thing when MMOs are available on multiple platforms, because then the people with the console mentality play the console version, and the community for the PC version is improved as a result.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I'd love to convince you but I'm sorry I think they lost sight of making a good game. They thought a world were you can break things left and right would be cool. In fact it will get old real fast. If your only selling point is 'you can break everything' then your game can't possibly be that good.... I'd hoping someday for a game where I can't cut holes in the ground with spells but is actually a challenge and fun to play. This is appearing more and more to be 'WoW with a breakable world'. We don't need more WoW, we need a return to where actually playing bad punishes you (like the old EQ1 days). That's not going to happen, they are just giving you a fluff ability of a breakable world to cover their 'vanilla' game... That Sucks...
I'd love to convince you but I'm sorry I think they lost sight of making a good game. They thought a world were you can break things left and right would be cool. In fact it will get old real fast. If your only selling point is 'you can break everything' then your game can't possibly be that good.... I'd hoping someday for a game where I can't cut holes in the ground with spells but is actually a challenge and fun to play. This is appearing more and more to be 'WoW with a breakable world'. We don't need more WoW, we need a return to where actually playing bad punishes you (like the old EQ1 days). That's not going to happen, they are just giving you a fluff ability of a breakable world to cover their 'vanilla' game... That Sucks...
I couldn't disagree more. If they manage to deliver even half of what they are promising, they will be closer to building an actual interactive fantasy world than any previous MMO. Other than picking stylized art rather than photorealistic, and having a hotbar, the game appears to have very little in common with WoW.
And no, we don't need games that "punish" people, unless they find a way to make the punishment itself an interesting and enjoyable experience. It's a game, the goal is fun, and most people aren't masochists.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by CazNeerg Originally posted by george99I'd love to convince you but I'm sorry I think they lost sight of making a good game. They thought a world were you can break things left and right would be cool. In fact it will get old real fast. If your only selling point is 'you can break everything' then your game can't possibly be that good.... I'd hoping someday for a game where I can't cut holes in the ground with spells but is actually a challenge and fun to play. This is appearing more and more to be 'WoW with a breakable world'. We don't need more WoW, we need a return to where actually playing bad punishes you (like the old EQ1 days). That's not going to happen, they are just giving you a fluff ability of a breakable world to cover their 'vanilla' game... That Sucks...
I couldn't disagree more. If they manage to deliver even half of what they are promising, they will be closer to building an actual interactive fantasy world than any previous MMO. Other than picking stylized art rather than photorealistic, and having a hotbar, the game appears to have very little in common with WoW.
And no, we don't need games that "punish" people, unless they find a way to make the punishment itself an interesting and enjoyable experience. It's a game, the goal is fun, and most people aren't masochists.
Punishment isn't supposed to be enjoyable. It's to exist so that success is meaningful. Not only do games have to be fun but they need to have some measure of difficulty otherwise you aren't playing a game, you're watching a movie. Building on that- there needs to be punishment to keep people that don't know what they are doing from getting to the higher levels and messing things up for other players because they never took the time to learn the game.
EQ1 was my favorite game of all time. I loved EQ2 and WoW as well. Every game since has been the exact same formula with a different skin.
Convince me that this game is going to be different. What are the main points that are making it different than any other generic MMO out there? What has you sold?
Thanks in advance
Ok...
1. Mobs use a new AI that will make them adapt to their surroundings (not something they are developing they say they have made it) All i heard was varying spawn rates,that is not making the game better,just able to handle more spam/speed killing when needed.This is also not creatures adapting,it is merely computer code that changes the spawn times.
There has been rumblings that a lot would like to see Nocturnal creatures that are much harder to fight at night but who knows if SOE is willing to do anything the players want.
2. Desctructible world made of voxels that you can destroy with skills (you can even go underground like this)
They have worded it nicely but how destructible is it,it might just mean you can dismantle one block at a time and build it back up ,one block at a time.
3. Guild Wars 2 style combat but with multiclassing (40 confirmed)
This is new for them to come out of their ALTAHOLIC shell but definitely nothing new to gaming.
4. Parkour-style movement This is a small nice touch but all automated,i get the feeling they might have been too lazy to test it from various distances ansd give the players the input keys so decided to automate it.Even Emotes that games have you are allowed to trigger them,this automated design ruins the immersion of it.
5. It's freakin' Everquest. What more do you need?
I have really like the Everquest series,but it is really stale,they need some new angles and creativity.They could have licensed Physx and do their own work in many areas from physics to nicer models ,more animations in players.They could have even done their own destructible but chose to license someone else's hard work and it really imo is rather dated,it is better than Minecraft but still looks 15 years old.
So obviously you're unhappy with SOE and just want to negatively spin anything said. Thanks... Mature and very helpfully.
As for the OP. I would suggest you put in the time to research the game. There's a bunch of info out here and no one here knows what you like but you. If you decide to play it based on the passion of others, be it positive or negative like above, you will be disappointed.
EQ1 was my favorite game of all time. I loved EQ2 and WoW as well. Every game since has been the exact same formula with a different skin.
Convince me that this game is going to be different. What are the main points that are making it different than any other generic MMO out there? What has you sold?
Thanks in advance
I have a feeling that the AI will give it an Asheron's Call 2 feel - which is cool. The lore isn't there to explain why there's only one faction that will at some point divide into a number of guilds that at some point will have the option to pvp one another regardless of race/class.
Though unlike AC2 we have a very cartoony project here. However, that being said...see it as a different game than EQ...
Personally, I was very excited for The Elder Scrolls Online, being we really have nothing for the Dark Age of Camelot fans...I mean, nothing at all (3 seperate realms with no lazy pvp crossover between quests to force pvp, 44 classes, 24 races). And TESO is a very different entity.
Originally posted by george99I'd love to convince you but I'm sorry I think they lost sight of making a good game. They thought a world were you can break things left and right would be cool. In fact it will get old real fast. If your only selling point is 'you can break everything' then your game can't possibly be that good.... I'd hoping someday for a game where I can't cut holes in the ground with spells but is actually a challenge and fun to play. This is appearing more and more to be 'WoW with a breakable world'. We don't need more WoW, we need a return to where actually playing bad punishes you (like the old EQ1 days). That's not going to happen, they are just giving you a fluff ability of a breakable world to cover their 'vanilla' game... That Sucks...
I couldn't disagree more. If they manage to deliver even half of what they are promising, they will be closer to building an actual interactive fantasy world than any previous MMO. Other than picking stylized art rather than photorealistic, and having a hotbar, the game appears to have very little in common with WoW.
And no, we don't need games that "punish" people, unless they find a way to make the punishment itself an interesting and enjoyable experience. It's a game, the goal is fun, and most people aren't masochists.
Punishment isn't supposed to be enjoyable. It's to exist so that success is meaningful. Not only do games have to be fun but they need to have some measure of difficulty otherwise you aren't playing a game, you're watching a movie. Building on that- there needs to be punishment to keep people that don't know what they are doing from getting to the higher levels and messing things up for other players because they never took the time to learn the game.
Exactly my point. If a player is bad and hasn't learned how to play his character don't just allow him to beat any encounter... Seems current games will let you do anything and you can still advance. That makes the gameplay have no meaning whatsoever. That's why there needs to be negative consequences to playing badly. Not just repair your gear and move on. This game appears to follow all of the other vanilla out there where its all about trying to look pretty but being completely shallow. We don't need the novelty of breakable worlds, we need decent gameplay WITH MEANING.
The only mention they've given about how hard the content will be is that they can turn up how repsonsive the mobs are to conditions. I also want a game that has some difficulty or at least areas that are dangerous to go alone or at certain times. It's not the entirety of importance however. Not only is the sweet spot of difficulty hard to gauge but an MMO as a whole is dependent on more than one aspect.
Punishment isn't supposed to be enjoyable. It's to exist so that success is meaningful. Not only do games have to be fun but they need to have some measure of difficulty otherwise you aren't playing a game, you're watching a movie. Building on that- there needs to be punishment to keep people that don't know what they are doing from getting to the higher levels and messing things up for other players because they never took the time to learn the game.
Are you being serious right now? Games are about having fun, and products are about making money. Games need some content that is more difficult than other content, so that achievers can feel like they are achieving, but that isn't the same thing as "punishing" people. When you punish people who aren't masochists, you reduce their fun. Reduce it enough, and they stop giving you money. It's bad business. And how do people reaching high levels who aren't very good at a game negatively impact those who are? You aren't required to group with them.
Originally posted by george99
Exactly my point. If a player is bad and hasn't learned how to play his character don't just allow him to beat any encounter... Seems current games will let you do anything and you can still advance. That makes the gameplay have no meaning whatsoever. That's why there needs to be negative consequences to playing badly. Not just repair your gear and move on. This game appears to follow all of the other vanilla out there where its all about trying to look pretty but being completely shallow. We don't need the novelty of breakable worlds, we need decent gameplay WITH MEANING.
What games, exactly, allow "bad" players to beat every encounter in the game? I can't think of any MMOs, out of the ones I've played, which didn't include content of varying difficulty levels, much of which "bad" players never manage to solo, and some of which even good players can't solo. A well designed game has multiple ways to advance, it doesn't "punish" any particular playstyle or skill level, it just tailors the nature of your rewards to the type and difficulty level of the content you complete. Any game with a AAA budget is going to try to go for the mass market, even if they don't get it, and the mass market is not interested in being punished when trying to relax and have fun.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
We don't need the novelty of breakable worlds, we need decent gameplay WITH MEANING.
By "we" you actually mean yourself, right..?
You are correct, I should say 'I' want a game that at least feels like you accomplish things that a bot wont accomplish when I play. By your comment though I get that you don't want games that feel meaningful.
It doesn't work that way. What is "meaningful" in an MMO can mean different things to different players. For instance those who like to solo may have a different opinion on what makes an MMO meaningful that someone who prefers to group. The idea is that in order to be successful and allow play for all there needs to be a balance, one that SoE hopefully gets close to.
For those of us wanting a lot of hard content the best course of action is to look for a Round Table question on it and let our voices be heard.
It doesn't work that way. What is "meaningful" in an MMO can mean different things to different players. For instance those who like to solo may have a different opinion on what makes an MMO meaningful that someone who prefers to group. The idea is that in order to be successful and allow play for all there needs to be a balance, one that SoE hopefully gets close to.
For those of us wanting a lot of hard content the best course of action is to look for a Round Table question on it and let our voices be heard.
I'll never understand the people who want *all* content to be hard. After all, if there is easy content and hard content, most people will skip the hard content, and that will make the "leet" people that much more "uber" when they finish it all.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
It doesn't work that way. What is "meaningful" in an MMO can mean different things to different players. For instance those who like to solo may have a different opinion on what makes an MMO meaningful that someone who prefers to group. The idea is that in order to be successful and allow play for all there needs to be a balance, one that SoE hopefully gets close to.
For those of us wanting a lot of hard content the best course of action is to look for a Round Table question on it and let our voices be heard.
I'll never understand the people who want *all* content to be hard. After all, if there is easy content and hard content, most people will skip the hard content, and that will make the "leet" people that much more "uber" when they finish it all.
If ANY MMO content has been hard for you then I'm truly sorry. There has been no challenge since EQ and a lot of the challenge in EQ was merely the fact that they didn't know how to tune yet so it was (almost) impossible to beat some bosses without exploits until they were "fixed". Since then it's all been a cake-walk where the hardest part of any group/raid/whatever is carrying the biggest retard in your group who can't perform their simple task.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
It doesn't work that way. What is "meaningful" in an MMO can mean different things to different players. For instance those who like to solo may have a different opinion on what makes an MMO meaningful that someone who prefers to group. The idea is that in order to be successful and allow play for all there needs to be a balance, one that SoE hopefully gets close to.
For those of us wanting a lot of hard content the best course of action is to look for a Round Table question on it and let our voices be heard.
I'll never understand the people who want *all* content to be hard. After all, if there is easy content and hard content, most people will skip the hard content, and that will make the "leet" people that much more "uber" when they finish it all.
If ANY MMO content has been hard for you then I'm truly sorry. There has been no challenge since EQ and a lot of the challenge in EQ was merely the fact that they didn't know how to tune yet so it was (almost) impossible to beat some bosses without exploits until they were "fixed". Since then it's all been a cake-walk where the hardest part of any group/raid/whatever is carrying the biggest retard in your group who can't perform their simple task.
The most common MMO version of "hard" is to just give something so many hit points that you can't finish killing it before it kills you. Which generally only comes into play when trying to solo content intended for groups, or engage in content well above your group's level if playing with others. That doesn't stop there from being people who feel like their e-peens grow when they do get such kills. As someone who prefers to do most of my socializing outside of games, I usually solo, and would agree that as a percentage of the total content available in most MMOs, most of it doesn't fit any reasonable definition of hard. The only games I remember being hard (as a solo player) are vanilla EQ, very *very* early EQ2, Ultima Online, and EVE.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
It doesn't work that way. What is "meaningful" in an MMO can mean different things to different players. For instance those who like to solo may have a different opinion on what makes an MMO meaningful that someone who prefers to group. The idea is that in order to be successful and allow play for all there needs to be a balance, one that SoE hopefully gets close to.
For those of us wanting a lot of hard content the best course of action is to look for a Round Table question on it and let our voices be heard.
I'll never understand the people who want *all* content to be hard. After all, if there is easy content and hard content, most people will skip the hard content, and that will make the "leet" people that much more "uber" when they finish it all.
If ANY MMO content has been hard for you then I'm truly sorry. There has been no challenge since EQ and a lot of the challenge in EQ was merely the fact that they didn't know how to tune yet so it was (almost) impossible to beat some bosses without exploits until they were "fixed". Since then it's all been a cake-walk where the hardest part of any group/raid/whatever is carrying the biggest retard in your group who can't perform their simple task.
The most common MMO version of "hard" is to just give something so many hit points that you can't finish killing it before it kills you. Which generally only comes into play when trying to solo content intended for groups, or engage in content well above your group's level if playing with others. That doesn't stop there from being people who feel like their e-peens grow when they do get such kills. As someone who prefers to do most of my socializing outside of games, I usually solo, and would agree that as a percentage of the total content available in most MMOs, most of it doesn't fit any reasonable definition of hard. The only games I remember being hard (as a solo player) are vanilla EQ, very *very* early EQ2, Ultima Online, and EVE.
The fights you refer to are usually just gear-checks, which can be a valid form of gating content instead of just letting the skilled run in and beat the hardest tier content....granted they could just make it mechanically more challenging but then everyone whines about it not being fair for them.
Sadly the world, online and off, thinks that they all deserve to participate in everything regardless of ability. It's like little league, instead of only awarding the winners everyone gets a trophy now, which leaves those of us that are successful or talented surrounded by losers that feel they're entitled to the same benefits.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
You have a fair while yet before the game gets released. I'm sure as they ramp up towards launch they will have some meatier information rather than just maybes and hypotheticals that they are regurgitating at the moment.
I'm sure once they release some substantial information and videos you will be able to make an informed decision for yourself as to whether you should be excited for the game or not.
Originally posted by george99You are correct, I should say 'I' want a game that at least feels like you accomplish things that a bot wont accomplish when I play. By your comment though I get that you don't want games that feel meaningful.
What you ask is games being more challenging, that does not make them any more meaningfull tho. It is your actions having an an impact, a consequence, what provides the meaning.
And last, concept of punishment for "bad play" is just dumb. It isn't motivating, it isn't enjoyable, it adds nothing but annoyance and detraction.
Comments
Let's be realistic. When a game is available for both console and PC, and has separate servers based on platform, how many of the people who care about chatting end up playing the console version anyway? It's a *good* thing when MMOs are available on multiple platforms, because then the people with the console mentality play the console version, and the community for the PC version is improved as a result.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I'd love to convince you but I'm sorry I think they lost sight of making a good game. They thought a world were you can break things left and right would be cool. In fact it will get old real fast. If your only selling point is 'you can break everything' then your game can't possibly be that good.... I'd hoping someday for a game where I can't cut holes in the ground with spells but is actually a challenge and fun to play. This is appearing more and more to be 'WoW with a breakable world'. We don't need more WoW, we need a return to where actually playing bad punishes you (like the old EQ1 days). That's not going to happen, they are just giving you a fluff ability of a breakable world to cover their 'vanilla' game... That Sucks...
I couldn't disagree more. If they manage to deliver even half of what they are promising, they will be closer to building an actual interactive fantasy world than any previous MMO. Other than picking stylized art rather than photorealistic, and having a hotbar, the game appears to have very little in common with WoW.
And no, we don't need games that "punish" people, unless they find a way to make the punishment itself an interesting and enjoyable experience. It's a game, the goal is fun, and most people aren't masochists.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
And no, we don't need games that "punish" people, unless they find a way to make the punishment itself an interesting and enjoyable experience. It's a game, the goal is fun, and most people aren't masochists.
Punishment isn't supposed to be enjoyable. It's to exist so that success is meaningful. Not only do games have to be fun but they need to have some measure of difficulty otherwise you aren't playing a game, you're watching a movie. Building on that- there needs to be punishment to keep people that don't know what they are doing from getting to the higher levels and messing things up for other players because they never took the time to learn the game.
So obviously you're unhappy with SOE and just want to negatively spin anything said. Thanks... Mature and very helpfully.
As for the OP. I would suggest you put in the time to research the game. There's a bunch of info out here and no one here knows what you like but you. If you decide to play it based on the passion of others, be it positive or negative like above, you will be disappointed.
I have a feeling that the AI will give it an Asheron's Call 2 feel - which is cool. The lore isn't there to explain why there's only one faction that will at some point divide into a number of guilds that at some point will have the option to pvp one another regardless of race/class.
Though unlike AC2 we have a very cartoony project here. However, that being said...see it as a different game than EQ...
Personally, I was very excited for The Elder Scrolls Online, being we really have nothing for the Dark Age of Camelot fans...I mean, nothing at all (3 seperate realms with no lazy pvp crossover between quests to force pvp, 44 classes, 24 races). And TESO is a very different entity.
Exactly my point. If a player is bad and hasn't learned how to play his character don't just allow him to beat any encounter... Seems current games will let you do anything and you can still advance. That makes the gameplay have no meaning whatsoever. That's why there needs to be negative consequences to playing badly. Not just repair your gear and move on. This game appears to follow all of the other vanilla out there where its all about trying to look pretty but being completely shallow. We don't need the novelty of breakable worlds, we need decent gameplay WITH MEANING.
By "we" you actually mean yourself, right..?
What games, exactly, allow "bad" players to beat every encounter in the game? I can't think of any MMOs, out of the ones I've played, which didn't include content of varying difficulty levels, much of which "bad" players never manage to solo, and some of which even good players can't solo. A well designed game has multiple ways to advance, it doesn't "punish" any particular playstyle or skill level, it just tailors the nature of your rewards to the type and difficulty level of the content you complete. Any game with a AAA budget is going to try to go for the mass market, even if they don't get it, and the mass market is not interested in being punished when trying to relax and have fun.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
You are correct, I should say 'I' want a game that at least feels like you accomplish things that a bot wont accomplish when I play. By your comment though I get that you don't want games that feel meaningful.
It doesn't work that way. What is "meaningful" in an MMO can mean different things to different players. For instance those who like to solo may have a different opinion on what makes an MMO meaningful that someone who prefers to group. The idea is that in order to be successful and allow play for all there needs to be a balance, one that SoE hopefully gets close to.
For those of us wanting a lot of hard content the best course of action is to look for a Round Table question on it and let our voices be heard.
I'll never understand the people who want *all* content to be hard. After all, if there is easy content and hard content, most people will skip the hard content, and that will make the "leet" people that much more "uber" when they finish it all.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
If ANY MMO content has been hard for you then I'm truly sorry. There has been no challenge since EQ and a lot of the challenge in EQ was merely the fact that they didn't know how to tune yet so it was (almost) impossible to beat some bosses without exploits until they were "fixed". Since then it's all been a cake-walk where the hardest part of any group/raid/whatever is carrying the biggest retard in your group who can't perform their simple task.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
The most common MMO version of "hard" is to just give something so many hit points that you can't finish killing it before it kills you. Which generally only comes into play when trying to solo content intended for groups, or engage in content well above your group's level if playing with others. That doesn't stop there from being people who feel like their e-peens grow when they do get such kills. As someone who prefers to do most of my socializing outside of games, I usually solo, and would agree that as a percentage of the total content available in most MMOs, most of it doesn't fit any reasonable definition of hard. The only games I remember being hard (as a solo player) are vanilla EQ, very *very* early EQ2, Ultima Online, and EVE.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
The fights you refer to are usually just gear-checks, which can be a valid form of gating content instead of just letting the skilled run in and beat the hardest tier content....granted they could just make it mechanically more challenging but then everyone whines about it not being fair for them.
Sadly the world, online and off, thinks that they all deserve to participate in everything regardless of ability. It's like little league, instead of only awarding the winners everyone gets a trophy now, which leaves those of us that are successful or talented surrounded by losers that feel they're entitled to the same benefits.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
You have a fair while yet before the game gets released. I'm sure as they ramp up towards launch they will have some meatier information rather than just maybes and hypotheticals that they are regurgitating at the moment.
I'm sure once they release some substantial information and videos you will be able to make an informed decision for yourself as to whether you should be excited for the game or not.
What you ask is games being more challenging, that does not make them any more meaningfull tho. It is your actions having an an impact, a consequence, what provides the meaning.
And last, concept of punishment for "bad play" is just dumb. It isn't motivating, it isn't enjoyable, it adds nothing but annoyance and detraction.