A lot of people say they are sick of the WoW format of questing, battle grounds, dungeons, and simply crafting.
I question whether the basic premise is valid outside of the rather loud but trivially tiny percentage of the MMO population that inhabits invirons such as these.
And, frankly, even within the noisy rabble that populate these sites, if you point to a game that has what they claim to want there will always be thirty reasons why it's no good. A hint, I suspect, that the lists of wanted features that come out of these discussions is entirely meaningless.
Things always look so much better on paper than messy reality with its unintended consequences and free-willed other players who won't do the sensible thing and perform in the expected manner...
Safe to assume you are not a part of the trivial noisy rabble who want something different than the WoW format? You are very lucky to play in this era.
Just took a quick look at you history. You haven't said a thing good about any mmorpg for the past year. Are you playing anything? Seems like you should be enjoying yourself in the mmorpgs of the past couple years.
A lot of people say they are sick of the WoW format of questing, battle grounds, dungeons, and simply crafting. Recent mmos have been adding instanced housing, and claim to big on explorations. What is it that you guys actually want in order to play a new release longer than 1-3 months?
Give 3 features that would make the difference for you.
1) Dynamic worlds rather than static worlds.
2) Non homogenised classes. Make them rock - paper - scissors again, not everyone needs to be able to beat class x or be as good at them in some area. I liked how you would use different tank types for different encounters in Everquest, where Shadowknights were better against magical damage and Warriors were better against physical. The homogenisation of classes in EQ2 and WoW (and many new MMOs) has made combat really bland to me.
3) Interdependent crafting and adventuring. Make it so adventurers need to find the materials from mobs, and that multiple crafters need to work together to craft better items. I remember when EQ2 introduced the epic crafting quests which required crafters to work together, it really brought the community together. There needs to be more interdependence in MMOs.
- meaningful quests - i want rather less quests and less monsters but battles and stories that are meaning ful - where "going on an adventure" actually means something
nevertheless, i truly believe the future of mmorpg's lies in
procedural created open sandbox worlds with horziontal progression - think this will be the only way to truly sustain longterm...people always say - well as of now, no sandbox in fantasy has made it - yea, but as of now we never had a truly aaa sandbox game or even aa or even a single a...
so i have great hopes for everquest next and pathfinder online
I need the gameplay to be endless ( but I'm not a challenge-seeker, so endlessly more difficult isn't a solution for me, although it may be for others )
I need to avoid running into walls that would force me to play the game in a way I don't enjoy. That doesn't mean there can't be hills to climb or shortcuts through playstyles I don't enjoy, but be careful about putting unavoidable gates in my progression.
ff11 and ff14 pve have been fun. AC was also good. but my favorite mmo pve was probably darkfall 1 conquer the seas. i liked farming in dungeon gathering loot for up to 2 hours for a big haul , meanwhile wary of defending against players, or hunting down the highest tier enemies. it was scenic and adventurous, intense and skill based.
1. Mobs that are more active than standing around. Some may sleep at night, others might wander and get into fights with other mobs. I'm even okay with making some aspects tough enough that it's group only -- and that's coming from someone who solos a lot. For example, attack an enemy city and it's more than just pull a few mobs here and there... guards come to the gate, others flee. Stop making trash mobs, make things more meaningful.
2. I'm still not convinced the trinity is the way to go for future MMOs. Sure, a lot of people point to GW2 and say you need the trinity (its more about people not able to play as a team), but it's still lazy in that you stand around and spam taunt or heal. Of the trinity, I think taunting/tanking is the weakest link. I've said in the past that someone standing around taking a bunch swords through their chest isn't really epic. I'd like to see a tank turn into crowd control and be the king of knockdowns and roots. No more cheap taunt skills... or at least make the smarter mobs more resistant to taunt -- for example, animals are distracted but your smarter human mobs ignore your threats most of the time.
3. Make loot more about unique looks rather than +200 strength. I'm not saying take away all stat effects to loot, but so many MMOs have stat inflation where you end up with loot being most of your stat bonus (and health) rather than skill. If a level one has 100 health, why does a level 80 have 10000 health? I'm not saying the game has to drop leveling, but I think the difference between levels shouldn't be so overwhelming.
4. Continue the trend of reduced static quest givers standing around with a quest symbol over their head. If you're doing something productive, have that trigger a quest that's related to the area. Copy public quests from other games, but make sure that some are viable with one or few players so that it doesn't all seem out of reach without a full party. But as I said with #1, some areas that can't be completed solo are fine by me.
5. Allow me to make my character at least cosmetically more unique. Allow cosmetic replacements for armor and weapons (many MMOs already do), and let me use that level 15 look at max level if I really like it without severely gimping my character.
6. The world should be open without loading screens between areas except where something is instanced. I like the world to feel like a world, not a bunch of instances connected together. Don't place instant travel everywhere to defeat the purpose of having an open world, but don't keep instant travel out the game completely. It's all about balance.
7. Make some powers/skills more situational so that I'm not just performing the same rotation through skills. If the "best" players macro skills together so they don't need to press as many keys then the game is broken. Have less skills/powers or have more situational ones.
1) Dynamic ecology and climate complete with migratory herd and predatory creatures (as well as non-migratory) and seasons that affect not only harvesting but stats/abilities of those ill-equipped for exploration in harsher weather.
2) A complex, modular crafting system that drives the economy and is dependent on the above climate/ecology elements and affords the possibility for inventions by virtue of its modular nature and use of rarer materials. One mechanic to govern everything from tools to weapons to castles, all modular and open to complete Frankensteinery.
3) AI that recognizes race, faction, reputation, profession/role/class, combat style/repeated tactics, and has fear/bravery attributes related to certain attacks or effects. For "mobs" they would also have habits and, if intelligent, would be potentially available to interact with outside of combat and even befriend.
I want a story that belongs in a single player game, that I can do co op. Then put it in a world that I can explore and be a part of when I'm not working on that story. Crafting, gathering, building etc. swtor had the story part right, it was the rest of their world that was just totally lacking.
Then take pvp and separate it from pve. Every game seems to need it but finally accept that you'll never balance the two with the same set of stats/skills.
1. Action combat, with 6-10 skills max per character. Ideally, 1 button skill spamming is more than enough.
2. Open world dungeons/bosses, without challenge, easy mode zerg-rush, with no loot at all.
3. No quest hubs, but dynamic events, endless events, repetable unlimited times. Scalled events would be perfect, so I can kill 1 mob and go afk while others doing rest of job for me. Golden medal and full experience included.
4. No gear progression at all. Why someone who plays 24/7 should have better gear than me who plays only 2h per day?
5. But if there is a (best) gear in-game, it should be avaliable via crafting. Spamming button 1 to kill "challenge" bosses for 1 piece of gear is too boring.
6. Explorable world with hidden secrets, but with insta teleports on every 2 metters. Also running from A to B should reward me with best gear/mounts available.
7. Cash shop with all in-game available items/gears/mounts, cause farming sucks + shop only exclusives.
8. Big title "Welcome to new generation of MMORPG" all over the login screen.
The problem with most games today is that they focus less on creating a virtual world and more about creating a roller coaster type experience. There can be a number of things that can be debated about this, but these are the major things that always go through my mind when evaluating a game.
Unlimited Progression - Such as AA skills for Original Everquest meets old school wow talent points, once I reach the 'level cap'. My character should always be able to improve on himself without having to resort to gear to do it. Unlock new skills, actions, and so on. This sort of thing should be 'technically' impossible to ever cap due to the large amount of options.
Endless Exploration - I want to be able to go out into the wild and truly 'explore' and I want there to be rewards for being the first to find something. If through luck I manage to find an ancient temple and clear it then my rewards should truly be epic. I should be able to sell or tell people where these locations are. I don't ever want to run out of places to see, or have to wait for additional content. Dev content addition updates shouldn't be publicized then published in the patch notes. It should simply say "We added something somewhere. Go find it."
Meaningful Crafting - There needs to be a complex and thriving market and crafters need to be the heart of it. Creating everything from gear to cosmetic equipment. Having a complex and demanding economy will give incentive to the explorers to go out and harvest/collect rare things from the wild to bring back to the crafters and the crafters will make the items the explorers then need to go out and conquer more.
There it is, you took the thoughts right out of my mind!
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
EPIC gear I would like to see Normal dungeon content and SUPER heroic dungeon content ))) with super hard and super epic loot and when I go in Ogrimar I want every one to see how awesome I am because I finished Heroec content and I have super uber EPic armors ))) But I play all content of the game being a person who build time around game. I enjoy each aspect of it and I rely hate people who focus on one aspect . Its like in real life people who are interested in many thing are much more interesting than those who focus on one thing and usually because of this small view you can tell how boring they are.
And if you don't have time to play a game don't play it that's all.
I would like to see a PVE MMO that gets back to what D&D was like in the pen & paper days. You went on a quest to achieve or investigate something. The xp and loot and rewards were secondary to the fun of the quest itself.
TES games pretty much got this right where character progression is not tied to questing and you normally have a reason for doing what you're doing. Put that into a deep, rich, mysterious and dangerous world and, for me, you have what PVE should be all about.
I would like to see a PVE MMO that gets back to what D&D was like in the pen & paper days. You went on a quest to achieve or investigate something. The xp and loot and rewards were secondary to the fun of the quest itself.
I'd like that too but am losing hope. It's hard not to when the this is modern game dev's idea of what questing in a literal D&D game should be:
Huge world to explore (hidden passes, caves, and tunnels everywhere)
Danger while exploring (going out at night should be scary)
Lots of classes (20+ sounds about right)
Expanded trinity (tank, healer, dps, support, cc)
Group size to allow for different play styles (6 is just perfect)
Housing (as customizable as possible)
Robust character creator (anything short of Aion's is a step back)
Appearance/wardrobe feature with GW2's dye system
Scaling content (have a minimum number but no one should have to sit out)
I agree on everything here.. Especially the night thing, I like to see changes from daylight to nocturnal creatures.. and darn it.. DARK should mean dark like it was in EQ.. < GET A TORCH > lol The only think I can see that I would like to add to this list is more character details as in weight allowance, food and drink requirements, etc etc..
Huge world to explore (hidden passes, caves, and tunnels everywhere)
Danger while exploring (going out at night should be scary)
Lots of classes (20+ sounds about right)
Expanded trinity (tank, healer, dps, support, cc)
Group size to allow for different play styles (6 is just perfect)
Housing (as customizable as possible)
Robust character creator (anything short of Aion's is a step back)
Appearance/wardrobe feature with GW2's dye system
Scaling content (have a minimum number but no one should have to sit out)
I agree on everything here.. Especially the night thing, I like to see changes from daylight to nocturnal creatures.. and darn it.. DARK should mean dark like it was in EQ.. < GET A TORCH > lol The only think I can see that I would like to add to this list is more character details as in weight allowance, food and drink requirements, etc etc..
I agree with you about the dark. I remember cheating in EQ. I would turn the gamma up when in completely dark places lol. It was pretty frustrating trying to get out of surefall glade at night. It's great for role playing purposes if you can enforce it.
1) RP servers (seriously these should not have died off) that contain more than just people wanting to make fun of RPer's.
Though this will likely never happen cause of the internet dickwad theory but we gotta have dreams.
2) Multiple ways to level, a pathway for every group size (rift does this well)
Having something you can do solo, Duo, Party of 3, 4 or 5 is always a nice touch. that way no matter how many people are on in your guild/group there is always a unique thing you can do.
3) builds instead of 50 abilities.
A lot of people will disagree with me on this, but having a massive mess of abilities to me just seems pointless and wasteful. the only class I agree with having a ton of abilities is the Magic users. it makes sense for them to have this massive spell book. A warrior with 100 ways to swing a sword at someone, or a rogue who can stab you with his daggers at 50 different angles each causing a different status effect... see what I'm getting at.
But if there was one thing, just one thing that I want from a PvE MMO. Give me Cyberpunk!!!!
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
- Dynamic Content (The world changes from day to day. The same mobs don't always occupy the same spots doing the same things. Story Arcs that come and go, etc.)
- Player Interactivity that effects the world (More "sandbox" style features where what the players do actualy effect thier environment and what happens within the game world).
- More in depth play and meaningfull player interdependancey ( Combat should be more tactical in nature and not a tired repeat of the aggro based trinity. Mobs should react with a greater variety of behavior more true to thier nature and more factors aside from DPS, AGGRO, Damage Mitigation and healing should play meaningfull roles in combat....other types of non-combat challenges should be important traps/locks/secret doors.....environmental hazards in travel such as landsides, blizzards, storms.....players should NEED to cooperate with each other more both in and outside of combat)
I can think of more points, but you wanted only 3 so there they are.
Something to do other than just slaughter everything in sight for no reason. Also whatever other things would have to be 'meaningful', e.g. crafting that isn't just a time waster as a ll the good stuff is looted.
A bit of a storyline or two to take part in now and again.
Something at least vaguely original in combat and character development(and it doesn't have to be twitch based).
I think part of the problem for me besides the things I mentioned earlier is I don't like the new ideas for worlds and classes that much. I really liked the D&D with warriors/thief/mage/cleric/druid/hybrids/etc. It is part of why I can still go back to games like Baldur's Gate 2/Everquest and enjoy it. Many of the games now try to be innovative (have new classes/abilities) and they end up being really boring. It's possible someone might come out with a different theme than medieval times/high fantasy I like a lot, but it seems to be the one I like the best. It's great for exploration.
I would like to see a PVE MMO that gets back to what D&D was like in the pen & paper days. You went on a quest to achieve or investigate something. The xp and loot and rewards were secondary to the fun of the quest itself.
I'd like that too but am losing hope. It's hard not to when the this is modern game dev's idea of what questing in a literal D&D game should be:
The problem as I see it is that MMOs have become games like any other. If I look back at EQ it wasn't really a game as such. It was a world with characters and locations and lore and history. Things to explore and find, and you pretty much made your own adventures. This, for me, was what playing pen and paper D&D was like too.
Now, the devs want to script your entire experience and so questing becomes a dry, linear experience. Something to play through with the minimum of effort or thought just for the sake of xp and loot. There is no world, just zones and instances designed around the quests.
It's funny, devs complain about content locusts and the cost of pushing out expensive PVE content, but they create the problem for themselves by putting out shallow linear content that players blow through in a matter of days.
I'd actually like to see more meaningful and defined solo progression at end game:
Most "modern" MMOs are now really good at letting you choose to level up solo (questing and such) or almost entirely in group content. Many even offer leveling up through PvP.
There is always group content at the level cap, always could be more, no dev studio will ever fully meet that demand.
But then there is always this wall where you can't make meaningful progression to your character's power without doing group content, be it PvE or PvP.
Obviously you can't PvP solo, as it requires human opponents, but for solo PvE - generally once you hit the level cap and exhaust the available quests - you are really only given the options to:
1. Re-roll
2. Farm/craft
3. Play "solo" in a group
Lots of the crafting in #2 is usually tucked away in group content as well - you have to get the materials or patterns from group content. Some people love #1 but some not at all.
Number 3 is the big problem here. Lots of players who hit that wall on their progression force themselves into playing group content "solo with other people" just to get the rewards they want to progress their character.
We've probably all seen the type. The Lone Wolf in a PvP match. The silent DPS in a dungeon/raid PUG. Just trying to keep their head down, not screw anything up, and sneak through unnoticed to get their reward and continue advancing their toon.
So why play a MMORPG if you want to play solo?
Because you don't always want to play solo, and there is something grand about being a part of a bigger world. Also the idea that this is a constantly expanding and changing world, it has some persistence... much more so than a single player RPG or even an ARG like Diablo, PoE, etc.
So what do I propose?
Something that allows a player to continue to progress their character, solo, but that requires the same level of skill that would be required to defeat group content that gives comparable rewards.
What is the challenge of group content?
It can be people - poor players making mistakes, under-performing, and/or poor attitudes.
But the real challenge of the gameplay in a group setting is really only two things:
1. Mechanics
2. Stat checks
On the mechanics, it's doing what you are supposed to be doing - playing the game correctly, no matter what your role is:
Tanking mobs, keeping threat, picking up adds, moving and positioning etc.
Healing players, preventing your mana pool from running dry, responding to damage spikes, triage etc.
Maintaining good damage, burst phases, switching targets, dropping adds, etc.
Or things all roles do, like interrupts, avoidable dangers, crowd control, buffs and debuffs, etc.
On the stat check side - it's simple numbers: have you progressed enough content to do the this level of content?
We all know that sometimes, often actually even if you are a good player, that you will fail an encounter even if you personally don't make any mistakes. Tanks screw up, DPS doesn't switch targets to burn adds, someone misses an interrupt, etc. and you can fail without doing anything wrong yourself.
Frustrating. And you are ENTIRELY dependent on the progression of your character on these other people. Sure, you can join a guild, weed out the bad players, form a cohesive unit, but that takes time and dedication and usually a commitment to a schedule that is hard for many people with family/work obligations to maintain.
But if the REAL challenge of "hard" content is the mechanics, and the stat checks, why can't it be done solo?
WoW introduced the Proving Grounds - a way to learn the basics (kind of) of how to play the 3 main roles in WoW, Tank/Heal/DPS. This is a solo challenge, representing waves of enemies to defeat with the aid of NPC allies filling the roles you are not.
Why not combine this with the idea of ever escalating difficulty like the Fractals in GW2?
I could easily see such a system being implemented that would TRULY challenge your abilities as a tank/healer/dps to perform your role at the same level of mechanics and stat checks require by the most challenging raid tiers.
And the best part?
It would keep MANY of the so-called "bads" out of group-only content like Raid Finder or LFD.
You'd have to put caps on it - once per day, couple of times per week etc. if it had raid level rewards, but it'd give people who didn't want anything to do with group content a way to progress and it'd be completely optional for people who like group content.
I could easily see myself doing solo challenges a couple of times a week to see if I can progress further than the week before and maybe pick up a new piece of gear - along with my usual weekly LFR routine.
You could also use these re-designed solo Proving Grounds as a litmus test - like, you have to place a Silver medal in the Tank role to queue as a Tank for LFR, or Bronze medal as a DPS to do heroic dungeons etc.
Anyways, just my thoughts. Sorry for the long read, but I see it as - more to do > less to do. More options > less options. We pegs don't all fit in the same shaped holes.
Comments
Safe to assume you are not a part of the trivial noisy rabble who want something different than the WoW format? You are very lucky to play in this era.
Just took a quick look at you history. You haven't said a thing good about any mmorpg for the past year. Are you playing anything? Seems like you should be enjoying yourself in the mmorpgs of the past couple years.
Big open world to explore/play in.
Harvesting/Crafting that has depth and is useful (if you throw housing into this tier, not a fan of instanced).
At least 50% open world dungeons.
Tired of the super railed/instanced lobbyish mmos, with crafting/harvesting thrown in to say they have it.
1) Dynamic worlds rather than static worlds.
2) Non homogenised classes. Make them rock - paper - scissors again, not everyone needs to be able to beat class x or be as good at them in some area. I liked how you would use different tank types for different encounters in Everquest, where Shadowknights were better against magical damage and Warriors were better against physical. The homogenisation of classes in EQ2 and WoW (and many new MMOs) has made combat really bland to me.
3) Interdependent crafting and adventuring. Make it so adventurers need to find the materials from mobs, and that multiple crafters need to work together to craft better items. I remember when EQ2 introduced the epic crafting quests which required crafters to work together, it really brought the community together. There needs to be more interdependence in MMOs.
8+ unique classes that aren't balanced around PvP but instead what they bring to the group/raid.
PvP is for balanced games, not inherently unbalanced onces!
All I want is one thing.
A story that is better than your average FanFic.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
i want cute little puppies to cuddle with
besides that
- a good story (witcher 2 lvl)
- good and interesting characters
- meaningful quests - i want rather less quests and less monsters but battles and stories that are meaning ful - where "going on an adventure" actually means something
nevertheless, i truly believe the future of mmorpg's lies in
procedural created open sandbox worlds with horziontal progression - think this will be the only way to truly sustain longterm...people always say - well as of now, no sandbox in fantasy has made it - yea, but as of now we never had a truly aaa sandbox game or even aa or even a single a...
so i have great hopes for everquest next and pathfinder online
The generic 3 parts of the solution:
I need to enjoy the basic gameplay
I need the gameplay to be endless ( but I'm not a challenge-seeker, so endlessly more difficult isn't a solution for me, although it may be for others )
I need to avoid running into walls that would force me to play the game in a way I don't enjoy. That doesn't mean there can't be hills to climb or shortcuts through playstyles I don't enjoy, but be careful about putting unavoidable gates in my progression.
1. Mobs that are more active than standing around. Some may sleep at night, others might wander and get into fights with other mobs. I'm even okay with making some aspects tough enough that it's group only -- and that's coming from someone who solos a lot. For example, attack an enemy city and it's more than just pull a few mobs here and there... guards come to the gate, others flee. Stop making trash mobs, make things more meaningful.
2. I'm still not convinced the trinity is the way to go for future MMOs. Sure, a lot of people point to GW2 and say you need the trinity (its more about people not able to play as a team), but it's still lazy in that you stand around and spam taunt or heal. Of the trinity, I think taunting/tanking is the weakest link. I've said in the past that someone standing around taking a bunch swords through their chest isn't really epic. I'd like to see a tank turn into crowd control and be the king of knockdowns and roots. No more cheap taunt skills... or at least make the smarter mobs more resistant to taunt -- for example, animals are distracted but your smarter human mobs ignore your threats most of the time.
3. Make loot more about unique looks rather than +200 strength. I'm not saying take away all stat effects to loot, but so many MMOs have stat inflation where you end up with loot being most of your stat bonus (and health) rather than skill. If a level one has 100 health, why does a level 80 have 10000 health? I'm not saying the game has to drop leveling, but I think the difference between levels shouldn't be so overwhelming.
4. Continue the trend of reduced static quest givers standing around with a quest symbol over their head. If you're doing something productive, have that trigger a quest that's related to the area. Copy public quests from other games, but make sure that some are viable with one or few players so that it doesn't all seem out of reach without a full party. But as I said with #1, some areas that can't be completed solo are fine by me.
5. Allow me to make my character at least cosmetically more unique. Allow cosmetic replacements for armor and weapons (many MMOs already do), and let me use that level 15 look at max level if I really like it without severely gimping my character.
6. The world should be open without loading screens between areas except where something is instanced. I like the world to feel like a world, not a bunch of instances connected together. Don't place instant travel everywhere to defeat the purpose of having an open world, but don't keep instant travel out the game completely. It's all about balance.
7. Make some powers/skills more situational so that I'm not just performing the same rotation through skills. If the "best" players macro skills together so they don't need to press as many keys then the game is broken. Have less skills/powers or have more situational ones.
Three things directly related to PvE? Hmm...
1) Dynamic ecology and climate complete with migratory herd and predatory creatures (as well as non-migratory) and seasons that affect not only harvesting but stats/abilities of those ill-equipped for exploration in harsher weather.
2) A complex, modular crafting system that drives the economy and is dependent on the above climate/ecology elements and affords the possibility for inventions by virtue of its modular nature and use of rarer materials. One mechanic to govern everything from tools to weapons to castles, all modular and open to complete Frankensteinery.
3) AI that recognizes race, faction, reputation, profession/role/class, combat style/repeated tactics, and has fear/bravery attributes related to certain attacks or effects. For "mobs" they would also have habits and, if intelligent, would be potentially available to interact with outside of combat and even befriend.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
I want a story that belongs in a single player game, that I can do co op. Then put it in a world that I can explore and be a part of when I'm not working on that story. Crafting, gathering, building etc. swtor had the story part right, it was the rest of their world that was just totally lacking.
Then take pvp and separate it from pve. Every game seems to need it but finally accept that you'll never balance the two with the same set of stats/skills.
1. Action combat, with 6-10 skills max per character. Ideally, 1 button skill spamming is more than enough.
2. Open world dungeons/bosses, without challenge, easy mode zerg-rush, with no loot at all.
3. No quest hubs, but dynamic events, endless events, repetable unlimited times. Scalled events would be perfect, so I can kill 1 mob and go afk while others doing rest of job for me. Golden medal and full experience included.
4. No gear progression at all. Why someone who plays 24/7 should have better gear than me who plays only 2h per day?
5. But if there is a (best) gear in-game, it should be avaliable via crafting. Spamming button 1 to kill "challenge" bosses for 1 piece of gear is too boring.
6. Explorable world with hidden secrets, but with insta teleports on every 2 metters. Also running from A to B should reward me with best gear/mounts available.
7. Cash shop with all in-game available items/gears/mounts, cause farming sucks + shop only exclusives.
8. Big title "Welcome to new generation of MMORPG" all over the login screen.
There it is, you took the thoughts right out of my mind!
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
EPIC gear I would like to see Normal dungeon content and SUPER heroic dungeon content ))) with super hard and super epic loot and when I go in Ogrimar I want every one to see how awesome I am because I finished Heroec content and I have super uber EPic armors ))) But I play all content of the game being a person who build time around game. I enjoy each aspect of it and I rely hate people who focus on one aspect . Its like in real life people who are interested in many thing are much more interesting than those who focus on one thing and usually because of this small view you can tell how boring they are.
And if you don't have time to play a game don't play it that's all.
I would like to see a PVE MMO that gets back to what D&D was like in the pen & paper days. You went on a quest to achieve or investigate something. The xp and loot and rewards were secondary to the fun of the quest itself.
TES games pretty much got this right where character progression is not tied to questing and you normally have a reason for doing what you're doing. Put that into a deep, rich, mysterious and dangerous world and, for me, you have what PVE should be all about.
I'd like that too but am losing hope. It's hard not to when the this is modern game dev's idea of what questing in a literal D&D game should be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aajDY4M5Ig
I agree on everything here.. Especially the night thing, I like to see changes from daylight to nocturnal creatures.. and darn it.. DARK should mean dark like it was in EQ.. < GET A TORCH > lol The only think I can see that I would like to add to this list is more character details as in weight allowance, food and drink requirements, etc etc..
I agree with you about the dark. I remember cheating in EQ. I would turn the gamma up when in completely dark places lol. It was pretty frustrating trying to get out of surefall glade at night. It's great for role playing purposes if you can enforce it.
1) RP servers (seriously these should not have died off) that contain more than just people wanting to make fun of RPer's.
Though this will likely never happen cause of the internet dickwad theory but we gotta have dreams.
2) Multiple ways to level, a pathway for every group size (rift does this well)
Having something you can do solo, Duo, Party of 3, 4 or 5 is always a nice touch. that way no matter how many people are on in your guild/group there is always a unique thing you can do.
3) builds instead of 50 abilities.
A lot of people will disagree with me on this, but having a massive mess of abilities to me just seems pointless and wasteful. the only class I agree with having a ton of abilities is the Magic users. it makes sense for them to have this massive spell book. A warrior with 100 ways to swing a sword at someone, or a rogue who can stab you with his daggers at 50 different angles each causing a different status effect... see what I'm getting at.
But if there was one thing, just one thing that I want from a PvE MMO. Give me Cyberpunk!!!!
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
- Dynamic Content (The world changes from day to day. The same mobs don't always occupy the same spots doing the same things. Story Arcs that come and go, etc.)
- Player Interactivity that effects the world (More "sandbox" style features where what the players do actualy effect thier environment and what happens within the game world).
- More in depth play and meaningfull player interdependancey ( Combat should be more tactical in nature and not a tired repeat of the aggro based trinity. Mobs should react with a greater variety of behavior more true to thier nature and more factors aside from DPS, AGGRO, Damage Mitigation and healing should play meaningfull roles in combat....other types of non-combat challenges should be important traps/locks/secret doors.....environmental hazards in travel such as landsides, blizzards, storms.....players should NEED to cooperate with each other more both in and outside of combat)
I can think of more points, but you wanted only 3 so there they are.
Something to do other than just slaughter everything in sight for no reason. Also whatever other things would have to be 'meaningful', e.g. crafting that isn't just a time waster as a ll the good stuff is looted.
A bit of a storyline or two to take part in now and again.
Something at least vaguely original in combat and character development(and it doesn't have to be twitch based).
The problem as I see it is that MMOs have become games like any other. If I look back at EQ it wasn't really a game as such. It was a world with characters and locations and lore and history. Things to explore and find, and you pretty much made your own adventures. This, for me, was what playing pen and paper D&D was like too.
Now, the devs want to script your entire experience and so questing becomes a dry, linear experience. Something to play through with the minimum of effort or thought just for the sake of xp and loot. There is no world, just zones and instances designed around the quests.
It's funny, devs complain about content locusts and the cost of pushing out expensive PVE content, but they create the problem for themselves by putting out shallow linear content that players blow through in a matter of days.
*warning long post inc*
I'd actually like to see more meaningful and defined solo progression at end game:
Most "modern" MMOs are now really good at letting you choose to level up solo (questing and such) or almost entirely in group content. Many even offer leveling up through PvP.
There is always group content at the level cap, always could be more, no dev studio will ever fully meet that demand.
But then there is always this wall where you can't make meaningful progression to your character's power without doing group content, be it PvE or PvP.
Obviously you can't PvP solo, as it requires human opponents, but for solo PvE - generally once you hit the level cap and exhaust the available quests - you are really only given the options to:
1. Re-roll
2. Farm/craft
3. Play "solo" in a group
Lots of the crafting in #2 is usually tucked away in group content as well - you have to get the materials or patterns from group content. Some people love #1 but some not at all.
Number 3 is the big problem here. Lots of players who hit that wall on their progression force themselves into playing group content "solo with other people" just to get the rewards they want to progress their character.
We've probably all seen the type. The Lone Wolf in a PvP match. The silent DPS in a dungeon/raid PUG. Just trying to keep their head down, not screw anything up, and sneak through unnoticed to get their reward and continue advancing their toon.
So why play a MMORPG if you want to play solo?
Because you don't always want to play solo, and there is something grand about being a part of a bigger world. Also the idea that this is a constantly expanding and changing world, it has some persistence... much more so than a single player RPG or even an ARG like Diablo, PoE, etc.
So what do I propose?
Something that allows a player to continue to progress their character, solo, but that requires the same level of skill that would be required to defeat group content that gives comparable rewards.
What is the challenge of group content?
It can be people - poor players making mistakes, under-performing, and/or poor attitudes.
But the real challenge of the gameplay in a group setting is really only two things:
1. Mechanics
2. Stat checks
On the mechanics, it's doing what you are supposed to be doing - playing the game correctly, no matter what your role is:
Tanking mobs, keeping threat, picking up adds, moving and positioning etc.
Healing players, preventing your mana pool from running dry, responding to damage spikes, triage etc.
Maintaining good damage, burst phases, switching targets, dropping adds, etc.
Or things all roles do, like interrupts, avoidable dangers, crowd control, buffs and debuffs, etc.
On the stat check side - it's simple numbers: have you progressed enough content to do the this level of content?
We all know that sometimes, often actually even if you are a good player, that you will fail an encounter even if you personally don't make any mistakes. Tanks screw up, DPS doesn't switch targets to burn adds, someone misses an interrupt, etc. and you can fail without doing anything wrong yourself.
Frustrating. And you are ENTIRELY dependent on the progression of your character on these other people. Sure, you can join a guild, weed out the bad players, form a cohesive unit, but that takes time and dedication and usually a commitment to a schedule that is hard for many people with family/work obligations to maintain.
But if the REAL challenge of "hard" content is the mechanics, and the stat checks, why can't it be done solo?
WoW introduced the Proving Grounds - a way to learn the basics (kind of) of how to play the 3 main roles in WoW, Tank/Heal/DPS. This is a solo challenge, representing waves of enemies to defeat with the aid of NPC allies filling the roles you are not.
Why not combine this with the idea of ever escalating difficulty like the Fractals in GW2?
I could easily see such a system being implemented that would TRULY challenge your abilities as a tank/healer/dps to perform your role at the same level of mechanics and stat checks require by the most challenging raid tiers.
And the best part?
It would keep MANY of the so-called "bads" out of group-only content like Raid Finder or LFD.
You'd have to put caps on it - once per day, couple of times per week etc. if it had raid level rewards, but it'd give people who didn't want anything to do with group content a way to progress and it'd be completely optional for people who like group content.
I could easily see myself doing solo challenges a couple of times a week to see if I can progress further than the week before and maybe pick up a new piece of gear - along with my usual weekly LFR routine.
You could also use these re-designed solo Proving Grounds as a litmus test - like, you have to place a Silver medal in the Tank role to queue as a Tank for LFR, or Bronze medal as a DPS to do heroic dungeons etc.
Anyways, just my thoughts. Sorry for the long read, but I see it as - more to do > less to do. More options > less options. We pegs don't all fit in the same shaped holes.