I personally think Box prices WITH cash shop can be vastly more greedy, often functioning very much like a F2P game despite costing initial money. Sub price at the very least doesn't usually give an advantage compared to say Secret world of Gw2 where you do get an advantage by spending money, likely more in the process then if you were paying a solid sub to have the 'top advantage' in the game. Only more horrible when 'gambling boxes' are used in a game.
I am going to give a simple solution to everyone. Don't like the idea of paying $29.99 or $59.99 for a AAA game or even an indie game; MMO or not, then don't! It is simple as that. Coming here complaining thus showcasing your negative attitude toward people who work their butts off to bring you something they think you will like is an insult to me as a game developer/Artist. I work hard like you and as such if I produce a product I expect to be paid for my product and services that I provide to you as a customer and consumer. It is sad to see such a overwhelming amount of "entitlement" attitude in this forum where people have income or maybe they don't (but I am not judging we all have it hard one time or another) but to sit there and complain and insult developers for wanting to charge for their hard work speaks volumes to your personality and how you are as a person. You don't or can't pay? Too bad, move onto to a game that is free! problem solved!
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
OP you cycled EVERY single game into the same stereotype.
EVERY game requires some investment,maybe not always the actual developer,but someone is paying for it.
I think your logic only holds weight is talking about crowd funding.If those devs are not going to reward shares as they SHOULD be then yes should be no box price,but then again all those are free to play anyhow with no box price.
The boxed games are pretty much ONLY the high investment games.Also remember MANY gamer's like those collector edition boxes,i truly believe 99% would want them except for their cheapness to spend money.
Seriously NOBODY should be expecting anything for FREE,you do not deserve it,those putting in the hours of hard work to make the game DO deserve it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by fivoroth Why do MMOs charge a sub is a better question! You should pay for the box only imo.
The sub was / is to pay for content updates, which we have been getting less and less of over the years. No wonder people got sick of paying subscriptions when you are 4 months between updates.
Originally posted by strangepowers Originally posted by DMKano Originally posted by Niburuyou pay for the game and the monthly fee is for future content and that you can use the servers.If you have a PS or Xbox do you complaim also about the Gold membership you have to buy there in order to play multiplayer games ?
There are MMO console games that don't require any gold membership fees.
Funny thing that, back when they increased the cost for gold while increasing the sheer volume of ads I left and never came back.
More fees should equal less ads but the converse was true. As PT Barnum said, a sucker is born every minute.
ESO's problem is not the box price... its the game lol.
Why will it sell? Because of the console release... its bound to be the next MMO COD and you know how refined COD fans are...
Wrong, there was a recent poll on Tamriel Foundry which showed 88% of the players will play on PC or Mac and over 84% on PC. So PC will definitely have more people than consoles.
Lol polls, how 70's. Listen up. Polls are only a reflection of the will of the people that care enough to do the poll. 10% the total 12million Skyrim units sold were pc guys. 10%.... Now tell me that the console crowd won't play the best mmorpg to come to a console in like ever...
Originally posted by fivoroth Why do MMOs charge a sub is a better question! You should pay for the box only imo.
The sub was / is to pay for content updates, which we have been getting less and less of over the years. No wonder people got sick of paying subscriptions when you are 4 months between updates.
You obviously do not know what is involved in providing new updated content. 2-4 months are to be expected with what is involved regarding programming, making new environments, models, textures, particle fx, quests, scripting, getting new audio such as voice acting, musical scores, weapon sounds, environmental ambient sounds and fx. the list goes on.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
It's the biggest scam in the business atm. It's what allows them to make a 1 month throw away game. Hype the masses by constant advertising, then sell them the same reskinned garbage for 60$
Thank goodness for me 2013 had Wushu. No box fee, with a 9$ sub.
Yet you are super hyped for ESO, is that a big scam?
Just for the record, I do *not* like F2P and I'm *glad* ESO has a sub. I think the best models are EVE (low buy-in price/pay a sub/you can grind in game for your sub if you want) and The Secret World/Guild Wars 1 (buy a box + pay for expansions/content updates).
Just wanted to clarify that because I see some people painting me as advocating cash shops which I consider even worse than expensive boxes.
I hope somebody rallys to devalue the work you do... whatever it may be, so they can cut you out of the economic picture.
As a 3D artist I take offence, you are basically suggesting nobody deserves to profit from their hard work.
Spoiled and entitled millennials are the absolute worst, see my sig!
I believe the latter part of the subject title is better directed towards the OP...
Box price has nothing to do with profits.
Look at LoL, world of tanks or any game that has made 100s of millions and didn't have a box price (nor sub fee).
LoL artists still get paid.
IMO - OP makes a valid point, having a $60 entry fee just to try the game followed by $15 fee each following month - its a tough sell these days.
Also having boxes sit on retail shelves at stores is very costly, if those boxes don't sell at the pre-agreed volume, Bethesda has to buy them back... I wonder how many folks don't realize this.
Shelf space is not free.
And since they are out on consoles too, can't avoid retail boxes as digital sales are still a tiny % on the consoles when it comes to full games with multi-GB clients.
Agreed. And think about this scenario - you fancy a game so when it comes out, you lay out maybe £30 or more for the box and get a month's free play time. Maybe you sub for a month or two after that as well. Then the bloody thing goes FTP and every gamer and his brother has access to the same content you've been shelling out for over the previous three months.
That's a slap in the face by anybody's reckoning. I've always thought that if a game goes free to play then there should be some recognition of those players who bought the game when it was new.
Originally posted by General-Zod Originally posted by lizardbonesOriginally posted by General-ZodOriginally posted by DMKanoBox price has nothing to do with profits.Look at LoL, world of tanks or any game that has made 100s of millions and didn't have a box price (nor sub fee).LoL artists still get paid.IMO - OP makes a valid point, having a $60 entry fee just to try the game followed by $15 fee each following month - its a tough sell these days.Also having boxes sit on retail shelves at stores is very costly, if those boxes don't sell at the pre-agreed volume, Bethesda has to buy them back... I wonder how many folks don't realize this.Shelf space is not free.And since they are out on consoles too, can't avoid retail boxes as digital sales are still a tiny % on the consoles when it comes to full games with multi-GB clients.
Please, An artist for League of Legends wouldnt even get a fraction of what ESO shader gets paid...To the OPBroke gamers are always complaining about game pricing instead of figuring out how to make more money... disgustingly lazy if you ask me. If you cant afford the 60 dollar box price then maybe you need to realign your priorities. Oh yeah, just "make more money". That is a perfect solution. I can't believe nobody has ever thought of that before. Somebody should tell the millions of homeless people and millions of people who are out of work that they just need to make more money. We'll save a ton of tax money in unemployment benefits. Anyway, prices aren't set by the developers or publishers. They can suggest a price, but the price of something is really determined by the people willing to buy it. Unless gamers in general are unwilling to buy a "box" for an MMORPG, developers and publishers will keep selling them. If you're going to complain about developers or publishers being greedy, you may as well complain about everyone being greedy. That's the whole basis of our economy and a large part of our society. The desire for profits drives development and progress and for the most part improves the standard of living for our society as a whole. We arent talking about homeless people .. we are talking about computer owners who partake in the enjoyment of video games..
The problem isn't the amount of money, the problem is the perceived value for the money. Make more money is just as bad a solution for the OP as it is for people who are incapable of making more money because it isn't a solution. It's the kind of thing people throw out when they either don't understand what's going on, or they just want to feel superior to someone else. The amount of money isn't an issue for me, so it is obviously not an issue.
Gamers in general have decided that a box price along with a subscription is a good initial cost for MMORPGs. Developers and publishers think so too, otherwise they wouldn't dump as much money into them as they do and try and recoup that money with box sales and subscriptions. The generally accepted price isn't likely to go down any time soon.
The solution, if there is one, is patience. Don't be an early adopter. Wait for the box to drop in price, because it will, eventually.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
There's no additional value in the box that justifies the additional price. It's only value is the "free" month sub code which could easily be sold in a much smaller package much cheaper if people don't want to buy online. Boxes are a total ripoff for the consumer and probably drive a lot of business away from these games.
You seem to be under the impression that MMOs have an intrinsic value. MMOs cost whatever people will pay for them and apparently $60 + $15/month sub is still OK if you want to play it when the largest number of other players are playing it.
I don't see that changing any time soon no matter how many passionate threads full of half-assed cost analysis are created here.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
There's no additional value in the box that justifies the additional price. It's only value is the "free" month sub code which could easily be sold in a much smaller package much cheaper if people don't want to buy online. Boxes are a total ripoff for the consumer and probably drive a lot of business away from these games.
You seem to be under the impression that MMOs have have an intrinsic value. MMOs cost whatever people will pay for them and apparently $60 + $15/month sub is still OK if you want to play it when the largest number of other players are playing it.
I don't see that changing any time soon no matter how many passionate threads full of half-assed cost analysis are created here.
MMO gaming is imho the cheapest form of entertainment out there (with a sub)
Even spending $120 for boxes and $15/month for a year I have spent $25/month.
For $25/month I should get everything. If I like costumes and fluff- I should be able to get them all in game (not for $6.99 or 500 Diamonds) if there is a chest I can open it... If I am grouped with people and they want to visit X I shouldnt have to pay to get there.
$25/month will not buy a new game on my Ps3...But if it did, I would probably be done with it in a week or two since games are so short right now (with exceptions) . I could Order a Pizza one night for $25 and be full for six hours. I could buy a Pitcher of beer and a couple singles at the local pub but that will turn into a $125 night... I could not even take the wife to a movie for $25 and enjoy a Popcorn to split.
So yeah...To me. I am totally happy with this. I know what I am paying every month and I know I should have everything. IF I game for a few hours every weekend (I game far more...) even 3 hours a weekend. I get a full 12 hours of entertainment. The thing is...I play more like 20-23 hours a week some weeks.
Strangepowers, you sir are my hero... I agree with you on pretty much every point you made and your sig is flawless.
I grew up in a time where I did have to buy my games from brick and mortars... as a matter of fact I had to ride my friggin bicycle to the Electronics Boutique on Main Street Flushing from my parents house in College Point as a kid to spend upwards of $60 on a game like Ultima 4 with money I collected from mowing lawns or shoveling snow or other odd kid type jobs and always managed to support my hobby... Free was not even an option...
As stated it is the entitlement of todays gamer that is forcing companies to constantly change their business model to still try to make profit. Free is an illusion and for some out there they take as much advantage of the free component then once they hit their limit they simply move on.... they have no vested interest in a product because it didn't cost them anything except a little time which was an expectation that was already set.
Todays gamers force game companies to do shitty things to make money... Play a F2P MMO today... You have like 20 bag slots... things only stack to 5 and you need to make 200 items to increase skill... It forces you to buy a new bag... but at what cost? $10? $15? $25?.... This is just one example...
This was never a part of Sub games, you crafted that stuff, or it was based on your STR (carry capacity) etc...
The issue with the new gamer is they want to play friggin 10 games at once and at $60 a pop plus sub that is a big nut... Or they want to run 4 or 5 accounts in the same game... There is no commitment just consumption
To the OPBroke gamers are always complaining about game pricing instead of figuring out how to make more money... disgustingly lazy if you ask me. If you cant afford the 60 dollar box price then maybe you need to realign your priorities.
Stupid argument. I can definitely afford to spend way more than $60 for any game I want. Does that mean I actually want to or should? I have other, better things to spend money on as well as games.
It is like I used to see people charging $8 for a bottle of tap water in clubs. Is that not a rip off in your eyes because anyone who's going dancing at a club probably has $8 to spend?
Of course its a rip off! DUH! Did you just land on this planet? Thats the way things go...jesus the entitlement~
You are the dude who goes out and orders a round of drinks and tips a dollar if that.
Point is you want to play you pay.
Time to put the big boy pants on.
Time to put the big boy pants on? And you're saying Duh to people?.....ok
The issue with the new gamer is they want to play friggin 10 games at once and at $60 a pop plus sub that is a big nut... Or they want to run 4 or 5 accounts in the same game... There is no commitment just consumption
Of course not. We are talking about entertainment products here, not marriage.
I don't commit to a movie. I don't commit to a single tv show. I don't commit to a single book. Why would i commit to a single computer game?
Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
I grew up in a time where I did have to buy my games from brick and mortars... as a matter of fact I had to ride my friggin bicycle to the Electronics Boutique on Main Street Flushing from my parents house in College Point as a kid to spend upwards of $60 on a game like Ultima 4 with money I collected from mowing lawns or shoveling snow or other odd kid type jobs and always managed to support my hobby... Free was not even an option...
Heh...funny thing is I remember spending $60 on Ultima 4 in 1988 or so and $60 as a teenager and back then that seemed like a ton of money but I always thought that game and games like it were worth the money because they gave me months of entertainment. They included things they didn't need to like cloth maps and really cool manuals just to make the game feel more alive. Now-a- days that would be "DLC!" or "$30 extra for the collector's edition!" Compare it to Garriott's new game where you can buy land in the game for like $1000 real money on top of having to buy the actual game.
I don't mind paying once for a game or subbing to an online game but I really feel like games companies are much more about the greed than they used to be. It's not just "Buy our game!" now (perfectly reasonable) but "buy our game and buy the collector's edition and the 20 pieces of DLC that we'll come out with and if it's an MMO we'll charge you a sub on top of our high box price until we figure it's more profitable to nickle and dime you through cash shop!" (and then our loyalest fans who paid our sub our kind of screwed by sudden F2P but who cares about them? LOL)
I think a lot of gamers aren't so much entitled as just want one simple price to pay without being gouged everywhere they turn by games.
Originally posted by Ice-Queen Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?
I think a lot of gamers aren't so much entittled as just want one simple price to pay without being gouged everywhere they turn by games.
No one is obliged to provide that.
It is a free market. Devs are free to charge as they please, and gamers are free to decide if they want to participate.
And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!
Originally posted by Ice-QueenAnother thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?
Originally posted by Ice-Queen Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?
Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Ice-Queen Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?
Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.
That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?
Originally posted by Ice-Queen Another thread where people want freebie handouts. If an mmo costs you a box and a subscription fee, and you don't wanna pay, skip it and go to the so called F2P games you love so much.
Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?
Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.
That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?
Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The issue with the new gamer is they want to play friggin 10 games at once and at $60 a pop plus sub that is a big nut... Or they want to run 4 or 5 accounts in the same game... There is no commitment just consumption
Of course not. We are talking about entertainment products here, not marriage.
I don't commit to a movie. I don't commit to a single tv show. I don't commit to a single book. Why would i commit to a single computer game?
You commit to that movie when you go to the theater and pay the $10-$20 for the ticket to watch it you don't buy your ticket then walk out 30 minutes into the movie... You commit to a TV show if you know that you will watch or record each episode when they are on. You commit to a book when you start it with the goal of finishing it. I am not talking about marriage...
If I was putting together one of those old Revell car models... I commit to putting it together. I am not marrying the fkn thing... When I play a game (also a hobby) I like to put some god damn vested interest and effort to seeing things through for some challenge and fun. Not constanly burdened by artificial barriers like having to buy bag space, or bank slots, or something from a cash shop so my shit don't break when I am trying to craft something.
Comments
I am going to give a simple solution to everyone. Don't like the idea of paying $29.99 or $59.99 for a AAA game or even an indie game; MMO or not, then don't! It is simple as that. Coming here complaining thus showcasing your negative attitude toward people who work their butts off to bring you something they think you will like is an insult to me as a game developer/Artist. I work hard like you and as such if I produce a product I expect to be paid for my product and services that I provide to you as a customer and consumer. It is sad to see such a overwhelming amount of "entitlement" attitude in this forum where people have income or maybe they don't (but I am not judging we all have it hard one time or another) but to sit there and complain and insult developers for wanting to charge for their hard work speaks volumes to your personality and how you are as a person. You don't or can't pay? Too bad, move onto to a game that is free! problem solved!
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
OP you cycled EVERY single game into the same stereotype.
EVERY game requires some investment,maybe not always the actual developer,but someone is paying for it.
I think your logic only holds weight is talking about crowd funding.If those devs are not going to reward shares as they SHOULD be then yes should be no box price,but then again all those are free to play anyhow with no box price.
The boxed games are pretty much ONLY the high investment games.Also remember MANY gamer's like those collector edition boxes,i truly believe 99% would want them except for their cheapness to spend money.
Seriously NOBODY should be expecting anything for FREE,you do not deserve it,those putting in the hours of hard work to make the game DO deserve it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The sub was / is to pay for content updates, which we have been getting less and less of over the years. No wonder people got sick of paying subscriptions when you are 4 months between updates.
Funny thing that, back when they increased the cost for gold while increasing the sheer volume of ads I left and never came back.
More fees should equal less ads but the converse was true. As PT Barnum said, a sucker is born every minute.
ESO's problem is not the box price... its the game lol.
Why will it sell? Because of the console release... its bound to be the next MMO COD and you know how refined COD fans are...
Wrong, there was a recent poll on Tamriel Foundry which showed 88% of the players will play on PC or Mac and over 84% on PC. So PC will definitely have more people than consoles.
Lol polls, how 70's. Listen up. Polls are only a reflection of the will of the people that care enough to do the poll.10% the total 12million Skyrim units sold were pc guys. 10%.... Now tell me that the console crowd won't play the best mmorpg to come to a console in like ever...
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
You obviously do not know what is involved in providing new updated content. 2-4 months are to be expected with what is involved regarding programming, making new environments, models, textures, particle fx, quests, scripting, getting new audio such as voice acting, musical scores, weapon sounds, environmental ambient sounds and fx. the list goes on.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Yet you are super hyped for ESO, is that a big scam?
Just for the record, I do *not* like F2P and I'm *glad* ESO has a sub. I think the best models are EVE (low buy-in price/pay a sub/you can grind in game for your sub if you want) and The Secret World/Guild Wars 1 (buy a box + pay for expansions/content updates).
Just wanted to clarify that because I see some people painting me as advocating cash shops which I consider even worse than expensive boxes.
Agreed. And think about this scenario - you fancy a game so when it comes out, you lay out maybe £30 or more for the box and get a month's free play time. Maybe you sub for a month or two after that as well. Then the bloody thing goes FTP and every gamer and his brother has access to the same content you've been shelling out for over the previous three months.
That's a slap in the face by anybody's reckoning. I've always thought that if a game goes free to play then there should be some recognition of those players who bought the game when it was new.
Oh yeah, just "make more money". That is a perfect solution. I can't believe nobody has ever thought of that before. Somebody should tell the millions of homeless people and millions of people who are out of work that they just need to make more money. We'll save a ton of tax money in unemployment benefits. Anyway, prices aren't set by the developers or publishers. They can suggest a price, but the price of something is really determined by the people willing to buy it. Unless gamers in general are unwilling to buy a "box" for an MMORPG, developers and publishers will keep selling them. If you're going to complain about developers or publishers being greedy, you may as well complain about everyone being greedy. That's the whole basis of our economy and a large part of our society. The desire for profits drives development and progress and for the most part improves the standard of living for our society as a whole.
We arent talking about homeless people .. we are talking about computer owners who partake in the enjoyment of video games..
The problem isn't the amount of money, the problem is the perceived value for the money. Make more money is just as bad a solution for the OP as it is for people who are incapable of making more money because it isn't a solution. It's the kind of thing people throw out when they either don't understand what's going on, or they just want to feel superior to someone else. The amount of money isn't an issue for me, so it is obviously not an issue.
Gamers in general have decided that a box price along with a subscription is a good initial cost for MMORPGs. Developers and publishers think so too, otherwise they wouldn't dump as much money into them as they do and try and recoup that money with box sales and subscriptions. The generally accepted price isn't likely to go down any time soon.
The solution, if there is one, is patience. Don't be an early adopter. Wait for the box to drop in price, because it will, eventually.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You seem to be under the impression that MMOs have an intrinsic value. MMOs cost whatever people will pay for them and apparently $60 + $15/month sub is still OK if you want to play it when the largest number of other players are playing it.
I don't see that changing any time soon no matter how many passionate threads full of half-assed cost analysis are created here.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
MMO gaming is imho the cheapest form of entertainment out there (with a sub)
Even spending $120 for boxes and $15/month for a year I have spent $25/month.
For $25/month I should get everything. If I like costumes and fluff- I should be able to get them all in game (not for $6.99 or 500 Diamonds) if there is a chest I can open it... If I am grouped with people and they want to visit X I shouldnt have to pay to get there.
$25/month will not buy a new game on my Ps3...But if it did, I would probably be done with it in a week or two since games are so short right now (with exceptions) . I could Order a Pizza one night for $25 and be full for six hours. I could buy a Pitcher of beer and a couple singles at the local pub but that will turn into a $125 night... I could not even take the wife to a movie for $25 and enjoy a Popcorn to split.
So yeah...To me. I am totally happy with this. I know what I am paying every month and I know I should have everything. IF I game for a few hours every weekend (I game far more...) even 3 hours a weekend. I get a full 12 hours of entertainment. The thing is...I play more like 20-23 hours a week some weeks.
Strangepowers, you sir are my hero... I agree with you on pretty much every point you made and your sig is flawless.
I grew up in a time where I did have to buy my games from brick and mortars... as a matter of fact I had to ride my friggin bicycle to the Electronics Boutique on Main Street Flushing from my parents house in College Point as a kid to spend upwards of $60 on a game like Ultima 4 with money I collected from mowing lawns or shoveling snow or other odd kid type jobs and always managed to support my hobby... Free was not even an option...
As stated it is the entitlement of todays gamer that is forcing companies to constantly change their business model to still try to make profit. Free is an illusion and for some out there they take as much advantage of the free component then once they hit their limit they simply move on.... they have no vested interest in a product because it didn't cost them anything except a little time which was an expectation that was already set.
Todays gamers force game companies to do shitty things to make money... Play a F2P MMO today... You have like 20 bag slots... things only stack to 5 and you need to make 200 items to increase skill... It forces you to buy a new bag... but at what cost? $10? $15? $25?.... This is just one example...
This was never a part of Sub games, you crafted that stuff, or it was based on your STR (carry capacity) etc...
The issue with the new gamer is they want to play friggin 10 games at once and at $60 a pop plus sub that is a big nut... Or they want to run 4 or 5 accounts in the same game... There is no commitment just consumption
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Time to put the big boy pants on? And you're saying Duh to people?.....ok
Of course not. We are talking about entertainment products here, not marriage.
I don't commit to a movie. I don't commit to a single tv show. I don't commit to a single book. Why would i commit to a single computer game?
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Heh...funny thing is I remember spending $60 on Ultima 4 in 1988 or so and $60 as a teenager and back then that seemed like a ton of money but I always thought that game and games like it were worth the money because they gave me months of entertainment. They included things they didn't need to like cloth maps and really cool manuals just to make the game feel more alive. Now-a- days that would be "DLC!" or "$30 extra for the collector's edition!" Compare it to Garriott's new game where you can buy land in the game for like $1000 real money on top of having to buy the actual game.
I don't mind paying once for a game or subbing to an online game but I really feel like games companies are much more about the greed than they used to be. It's not just "Buy our game!" now (perfectly reasonable) but "buy our game and buy the collector's edition and the 20 pieces of DLC that we'll come out with and if it's an MMO we'll charge you a sub on top of our high box price until we figure it's more profitable to nickle and dime you through cash shop!" (and then our loyalest fans who paid our sub our kind of screwed by sudden F2P but who cares about them? LOL)
I think a lot of gamers aren't so much entitled as just want one simple price to pay without being gouged everywhere they turn by games.
Of course. Why would i pay for a sub when i can get the same amount of fun (or even more!) for free?
No one is obliged to provide that.
It is a free market. Devs are free to charge as they please, and gamers are free to decide if they want to participate.
And what is this "gouging" by games? I spent 40 fun hours in Marvel Heroes and I have yet to pay a cent. I spent many fun hours in STO (and got a new bird-of-prey recently) and yet to pay a cent. If this is gouging, please gouge me more!
Because fun is a subjective term?
Still in favor of economic moat.
Because if they were truly free and not just a marketing gimmick label, no one could afford to make them and then we wouldn't have any to play.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That is the dev's problem, not mine. Plus, they are truly free to everyone except the whales. I am not a whale .. so it is free to me. Is there a reason why i should not enjoy them?
Some people are fine figuring out ways to not pay taxes also... luckily, that's not everyone/
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You commit to that movie when you go to the theater and pay the $10-$20 for the ticket to watch it you don't buy your ticket then walk out 30 minutes into the movie... You commit to a TV show if you know that you will watch or record each episode when they are on. You commit to a book when you start it with the goal of finishing it. I am not talking about marriage...
If I was putting together one of those old Revell car models... I commit to putting it together. I am not marrying the fkn thing... When I play a game (also a hobby) I like to put some god damn vested interest and effort to seeing things through for some challenge and fun. Not constanly burdened by artificial barriers like having to buy bag space, or bank slots, or something from a cash shop so my shit don't break when I am trying to craft something.
[mod edit]
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...