Subscriptions have no future. The only way for game to be successful with subs is to make it revolutionary, which of cause not the case with TESO.
Also about... "My opinion is that the era of the multi-hundred million dollar budget theme park style MMO is ending". Wrong. This era is only starting.
Ive said this multiple times now. The business model is never the main issue of a game. Its how good the game is. Swtor crashed and burned not because of P2P but because of its terrible and buggy endgame, buggy ilum pvp, ect ect. Same could be said for Rift, WAR, AOC, LOTRO, ect ect. If a game is good and is interesting then people will have ZERO problems with spending a sub each month.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
All this "exclude" WoW says one thing: subscriptions can and does work.
The hype is more about publishers getting more money and they have a vested interest hyping the interest in F2P. But in the end, when you include WoW, it shows it can and does work and still profitable.
Originally posted by dirtyjoe78 I love the argument of "if you remove WoW" yes if you ignore the most successful one it changes the numbers. If anything WoW is a great example of if you make a good game people will pay and play. You can disagree all you want with WoW being a good game but the numbers don't lie it is evidently a game a lot of people play and enjoy. The games that have come out in the last 8 to 10 years have been lackluster to say the least. Personally i prefer a monthly subscription just let me set up a sub and give me the game and leave me alone so i can enjoy it. My biggest problem with MTX is it usually leads to designing the game around tasking that pushes you towards the cash shop instead of concentrating on making an enjoyable game.
You can't logically extrapolate a general rule from one occurrence. When one product in a category (AAA MMOs in this case) follows one pattern, and every single other product in that category follows a different pattern, the lone outlier generally gets treated as an anomaly and minimalized in analysis of what should be done in the market.
I mean, seriously, actually think for a second what a product would have to offer in order to even be theoretically capable of replicating WoW's success. WoW came out when there were only three or four other MMO options, the big names among them *drastically* inferior in terms of their ability to appeal to the bread and butter of the modern MMO audience, the casual player. A new game has to compete with, depending on how wide a net a given player casts, a number of games into the double digits, many of which offer completely free options, and many of which have years of content already created. WoW had a perfect storm of conditions which cannot be replicated.
The argument that because WoW succeeded for so long relying exclusively on subs, new games can too, makes me think of somebody arguing that because Coca-Cola has such massive sales, that means somebody could come out with a brand new cola brand tomorrow, and get just as many sales as Coke!
Originally posted by DSWBeef Ive said this multiple times now. The business model is never the main issue of a game. Its how good the game is. Swtor crashed and burned not because of P2P but because of its terrible and buggy endgame, buggy ilum pvp, ect ect. Same could be said for Rift, WAR, AOC, LOTRO, ect ect. If a game is good and is interesting then people will have ZERO problems with spending a sub each month.
The main problem with your argument is, other than WAR, none of those games crashed and burned. Failure to be as successful as some mouth breathing neckbeards on internet forums think you should have been does not equate to failure to be successful. Unsuccessful games are easy to spot. They are the ones that can no longer be played.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Forbes has become nothing more than a propaganda machine, so it's no surprise that an article that completely misunderstands the MMO market would come out. However, I do think that in our current environment, most MMOs will need to adopt a hybrid model. I'm really enjoying Rift's hybrid model, as it allows free players to earn the same rewards by simply selling their platinum in exchange for paid currency. Guild Wars 2 has an even better system, making that auction-based.
Mostly what you get with no sub. games is a lot of crying about how they are pay to win, whether or not the game is ptw that seems to be the instant perception of the "free" model
Originally posted by WikileaksEU Never in my entire existence would i believe that SWTOR has more than 2 million active players. More like 200-400k. The other games that says 20 millions can not be true either. This is bullshit.
I think it was a prediction for 2014 , but as of November 14th 2013 SWTOR had 1 million accounts logging in every month. SO to double within 12 months he predicts hmm , it's possible.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Here's a thought. Since there is a market for the Subscription model and there is a market for the F2P w/ MTX model, why don't games just come to market with the Hybrid model in the first place? That way, they aren't forcing Subs on players who don't want them. They get a constant stream of revenue from the get go and finally, they don't have the perceived failure of going from a Sub only model to a Hybrid model.
ESO and Wildstar may indeed (and probably will) move to a hybrid model at some point. When they do, the gaming community will happily dub them a failure (as they have with SWTOR.) Or, you can simply come to market with the model that seems to be the most successful in the current MMO market.
I'm obviously not on the same page as most gamers here because I don't think the offerings of the last few years have been abysmal and I don't think subscriptions have ever meant a higher quality game experience.
I actually think you are on the same page as most gamers, as evidenced by the unquestionable financial success of freemium games. You just aren't on the same page as the most frequent forum posters, which is not at all the same thing.
Originally posted by Arndush
Here's a thought. Since there is a market for the Subscription model and there is a market for the F2P w/ MTX model, why don't games just come to market with the Hybrid model in the first place? That way, they aren't forcing Subs on players who don't want them. They get a constant stream of revenue from the get go and finally, they don't have the perceived failure of going from a Sub only model to a Hybrid model.
ESO and Wildstar may indeed (and probably will) move to a hybrid model at some point. When they do, the gaming community will happily dub them a failure (as they have with SWTOR.) Or, you can simply come to market with the model that seems to be the most successful in the current MMO market.
The answer to that one is easy. During a game's launch window, they can get box sales and subscriptions out of a lot of players who are impatient to experience the content, and so willing to pay the price, but who would have taken the free option if it existed from launch. The best way to maximize revenue is to start out sub only, and only convert to Freemium when the "average" player starts to run out of content and quit.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Subs, hybrid, F2P is irrelevant in the eyes of a good game. The argument here is valid, because ESO is a bad game.
If it's an objectively bad game, it will fail no matter what model it uses, and the servers will shut down. If it manages to keep the servers running, it isn't a bad game, just a game you happen not to like.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I cannot speak to the best money making strategy for an MMO. There are a few rich data analysts that figured all of that out years ago. By now it is a known formula that you just plug your numbers into and adapt to. However, these actuary like statistics and formulas are based on broad averages and "the norm." So they don't apply to me. I can speak to my experience and preferences. After almost 2 decades of playing "MMOs," I have grown to most appreciate and play the subscription model and in some cases an MTX addition to that model that does not significantly change gameplay. A couple of examples:
SWTOR (paid subscriber almost since release). SWTOR f2p is honestly nothing more than a trial. You can't really play the game in "f2p ." Recently tried playing with a friend with a f2p membership, and he was so crippled he had to subscribe after two game sessions. Paying a' la carte for everything that a subscriber gets would be moronic (if you do this, please send me your credit card number, and I will return a free invisible outfit for the character of your choice). But despite my subscription, I happily buy the occasional booster pack and additions that I consider actually tangible, like character slots or account wide travel.
Pirate101 is one that I maintain a subscription for both me and my son. I actually play more than him. Again, f2p is just a trial. Again, I still use MTX to buy the odd non-game changer like a penny farthing bike.
What I hate is the "true" f2p. Like everything from PWE. I recently tried Neverwinter and have played both of the other Cryptic games. I always feel like I am being mugged. With the 15 or more currencies, the forced dailies to be viable in the economy and game, and the endless ads for overpriced digital crap (that doesn't even look good in the engine), I come away with the feeling that I've actually been taken advantage of by a con man. Would much rather have the old Champions for $15 a month.
Not going to say that I will never play f2p games, but I would much rather subscribe to a well made, regularly updated, balanced game.
Unfortunately, I am not the normal target audience. Let's take Star Citizen for an example, I'd gladly pay $15 a month with the ability to MTX some new stickers for my ship. The majority don't want to pay a monthly fee, but they want to be able to buy a $199 Dreadnought on day one that will kill the majority of other players instantly.
Though I am not the statistic aimed at by the data crunchers, I hope that there will continue to be games that fit my desires. And I will let the majority keep playing their game equivalents of Duck Dynasty and Jersey Shore.
I saw a number of posters in the above thread reference my estimate for Star Wars the Old Republic. While many of the numbers in my chart are derived from a number of different sources, this one comes from a specific place:
"As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic, including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service. And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million."
This information essentially has to be true. Providing misleading or false information in this venue is a HUGE violation of SEC rules and securities laws. These answers are carefully scripted and usually vetted by the lawyers. There's essentially zero chance he's lying.
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt of getting to 500k subs because I've heard through my industry contacts that they are slowly increasing subs monthly. I debited them some free accounts on the assumption that the growth in subs is coming from conversion from free. So my math is 500k subs + 1.5 million free == 2 million total.
(We can argue about if those people are actually playing monthly or not. One thing about free players is that nobody cares if they show up to play in any given month or not and since you never "expire" from free you can rack up a big number that doesn't match player activity. On the other hand I think that the game is still a big draw especially for folks who are using MTX only so I believe most of those free player numbers are regularly logged on to the game.)
i think Wildstar will make more from their subs just because they offer more options to pay instead of being generic and forcing a 15$ out every month vi CASH
I'll have to disagree with you completely. As a player of every major MMO out there throughout the last decade and a half, as well as someone who has worked in the video game industry, I'll have to call you out on your estimates and process.Firstly, it's highly unscientific and your "estimates" are more of an opinion than based on any actual facts. Secondly, the original article wasn't talking about the "hybrid" model as ESO is not planning on using that model. What we DO know, is that with the exception of EVE Online (which we do not know the specific number of North American subscribers), subscription numbers have been plummeting. Particularly looking at World of Warcraft in North America, which has lost millions of subscribers since its peak years ago.Your chart on monetization flow is inaccurate. The number of players in "free-to-play" or hybrid games who do NOT subscribe are the vast majority. The way these companies are making their money is NOT by attracting new subscribers, but rather their staggered transactions for content. Most players are not happy paying $15 every month for content. The number of casual players has increased as the overall MMO player numbers have gone up throughout the last decade. This means people who don't feel they put in the time to justify a monthly subscription.Games like The Lord of the Rings Online, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and Rift are making paying for the content you use easier. MORE players are in the game making SMALLER transactions. This is the "high volume - low dollar" method that made fast food explode. You get millions of people stopping in (a majority of which are spending small amounts on the food they buy). Sure, you have people dropping $10 at McDonald's, but those people are few and far between. The situation in the MMO industry is similar. Small transactions by more players for overall increased revenue and player numbers.I would agree with the stance of the Forbes article, considering the pattern in the recent years when games HAVE chosen to go with a subscription model. Most of the games you mentioned started off attempting to get the subscription-only model working, but eventually backtracked to the hybrid model themselves. The same will likely be true for ESO, unless they stubbornly refuse and buckle under the lack of revenue. While the Elder Scrolls series is a well-known and beloved one, so is The Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars. Major names and big budgets cannot guarantee success.The trends indicate that both ESO and Wildstar will fall prey to the same pressure of previous recent MMO's, and there is no evidence to indicate otherwise. The information provided was mostly filled with unscientific guesses, without any actual evidence. Everyone is titled to their opinion, but you can't present guesses as facts. I can respect what your opinion is and the hopefulness of it, but we'll eventually know the outcome only after the fact.
This completely, the sub model that requires a constant sub is DEAD. I don't mind subbing but I don't want to sub all the time because as you have said most of us are far more casual than the target market in the old days. Add to that the fact that most of us have games coming out our wazoo and its not a shock that sub only games are not the future but a footnote in the past. Like I said when I'm playing a game heavy I sub but when I'm not.. I still play just don't pay.
Elder scrolls like most games will launch sub and be a hybrid model within a year or two just like nearly every mmo. The fact that they aren't making a real elder scrolls game but instead a themepark with rvr makes me think that people will tire after the first 3 monbths(like always) and subs will fall which will lead to "shock" them going to the hybrid model to keep from losing their asses.
The fact that over the last decade subscriptions have not had any form of inflation hit them should indicate that people don't mind paying it. $15 a month is absolutely nothing. I couldn't imagine if the housing market or buying a car stayed the same over a decade, its a good deal. If $15 a month was the base in the early 2000s, then it should be at least double that now but it hasn't budged.
Nobody minds paying it, bottom line. If they do, they probably dont need to invest time in gaming so much if $15 could make or break you. Its chump change (and I pay for myself and my son, no biggy). Subscription issues become factor when you get a piece of crap game and they want you to pay for it, for a good quality game that gets constant updates, I'd be willing to pay a higher sub, no doubt.
I dont have a problem with the sub model, i have a problem with business ONLY offering the sub model in this day and age. The MMO market players now tend to move more quickly than they do 5-10yrs ago and it has nothing with being a good game or not.. Vets of the genre may talk how mmo's now-a-days are just cashing in etc, and do nothing to keep the players hook etc.. true words is its freaking hard to keep gamers hook in today's distracting society, WoW came out the right time no doubt, and i doubt if you release WoW today if would climb that high..
Having other payment model is the way to go in this short attention span of casual mmo gamers. Seems, what they prefer is pay $15 a month, quit, hope you come back, pay another $15 for 1month and hope the fire re-kindles and u stay a bit longer..
Oh please... subscription this, buy to play that... what ever system any company goes with just boils down to "it is what it is". If you do not like the pay model then don't pick up the system. All the charts and figures you can dig up and post will not initially change one thing. Once the game launches it may change a bit down the road. Until then, why beat this old dead horse yet once again.
So may weary posts that have been dusted off and had a few names changed to reflect a new title then reposted to stir up the mud.
Game isn't just being made for PC, it's also being made for console, and in order to play it on the console you have to pay TWICE.
Try and tell all the console gamers that purchased Skyrim and Oblivion that in order to play the new Elderscrolls game they'll need to pay $15 on top of whatever they pay for Playstation plus in order to play games online.
WoW is an ANOMOLY! It's not the norm, and ESO isn't going to attract millions of subs on a PC. They want, and probably need, the console subs.
Small budget game developer writing about how he can best exploit the players.
Games that handle microtransactions well: EQ2, WoW
Games that don't: LOTRO, Rift
and here is why: as a subber in EQ2 or WoW Im not bombarded with the cash shop. EQ2 gives me a popup upon logging in. WoW you wouldnt know its there if you didnt press the new UI button. Im not bombarded with shitty gimmick lock boxes.
Lotro Im reminded of the shop constantly. And Rift, for its player friendly model, has an immersion breaking, enormous cash shop every single time you vendor.
If you want my money, micro transactions are ok for cosmetics. mounts, special furniture, etc. but i dont want to be reminded of it while playing. It makes it seem like you dont give a fuck about your game world, just about money.
And you said you were planning micro transactions later-that better be clear to everyone from day one. No bait and switch. And if you are planning a f2p option but dont launch with it, then fuck you and I hope your company goes bankrupt. You are a large part of what is wrong with the industry. Dont exploit your customers. Dont bait and switch. Be honest from the start.
hurray! Let's all build our speculation off of others speculation because of what someone said at some time some where which was also speculation. Congrats folks.
Small budget game developer writing about how he can best exploit the players.
Games that handle microtransactions well: EQ2, WoW
Games that don't: LOTRO, Rift
and here is why: as a subber in EQ2 or WoW Im not bombarded with the cash shop. EQ2 gives me a popup upon logging in. WoW you wouldnt know its there if you didnt press the new UI button. Im not bombarded with shitty gimmick lock boxes.
Lotro Im reminded of the shop constantly. And Rift, for its player friendly model, has an immersion breaking, enormous cash shop every single time you vendor.
If you want my money, micro transactions are ok for cosmetics. mounts, special furniture, etc. but i dont want to be reminded of it while playing. It makes it seem like you dont give a fuck about your game world, just about money.
And you said you were planning micro transactions later-that better be clear to everyone from day one. No bait and switch. And if you are planning a f2p option but dont launch with it, then fuck you and I hope your company goes bankrupt. You are a large part of what is wrong with the industry. Dont exploit your customers. Dont bait and switch. Be honest from the start.
Yes, how dare they! How dare a for profit business try to turn a profit! How dare they adjust their business model to fit the performance of their product! How dare they prepare for the possibility they will need to go freemium, but launch sub only, rather than screwing themselves out of a lot of revenue by doing freemium from day one!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Uhwop, "Game isn't just being made for PC, it's also being made for console, and in order to play it on the console you have to pay TWICE.
Try and tell all the console gamers that purchased Skyrim and Oblivion that in order to play the new Elderscrolls game they'll need to pay $15 on top of whatever they pay for Playstation plus in order to play games online. "
to be honest...you are not paying twice unless you specifically purchase plus or gold and do not use it for anything else. Most people already have Playstation Plus or an xbox gold membership...
As for the subscription...I am glad that there is one. It cuts down on gold farmers spamming, it does raise the level of maturity of the people that play, IMHO. I played LotRo from the start until it went F2P now I might log in once every other month or so. Same thing for SWTOR, Rift, Conan and Aion. I stopped playing them once they went F2P. I am just speaking from my experience. And I have not had any awesome experiences with F2P games...
Comments
It seems the author has a firm hand on the pulse of the market. His analysis of how valuable subscriptions still are is spot on.
People, quite frankly, just don't like the bait & switch tactic of corporations with new products. That is why the "F2P" fad has taken root.
TESO might not be worth a subscription, but its imminent failure won't be because of the model they're aiming for.
Subscriptions have no future. The only way for game to be successful with subs is to make it revolutionary, which of cause not the case with TESO.
Also about... "My opinion is that the era of the multi-hundred million dollar budget theme park style MMO is ending". Wrong. This era is only starting.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
You can't logically extrapolate a general rule from one occurrence. When one product in a category (AAA MMOs in this case) follows one pattern, and every single other product in that category follows a different pattern, the lone outlier generally gets treated as an anomaly and minimalized in analysis of what should be done in the market.
I mean, seriously, actually think for a second what a product would have to offer in order to even be theoretically capable of replicating WoW's success. WoW came out when there were only three or four other MMO options, the big names among them *drastically* inferior in terms of their ability to appeal to the bread and butter of the modern MMO audience, the casual player. A new game has to compete with, depending on how wide a net a given player casts, a number of games into the double digits, many of which offer completely free options, and many of which have years of content already created. WoW had a perfect storm of conditions which cannot be replicated.
The argument that because WoW succeeded for so long relying exclusively on subs, new games can too, makes me think of somebody arguing that because Coca-Cola has such massive sales, that means somebody could come out with a brand new cola brand tomorrow, and get just as many sales as Coke!
The main problem with your argument is, other than WAR, none of those games crashed and burned. Failure to be as successful as some mouth breathing neckbeards on internet forums think you should have been does not equate to failure to be successful. Unsuccessful games are easy to spot. They are the ones that can no longer be played.Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I think it was a prediction for 2014 , but as of November 14th 2013 SWTOR had 1 million accounts logging in every month. SO to double within 12 months he predicts hmm , it's possible.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
Here's a thought. Since there is a market for the Subscription model and there is a market for the F2P w/ MTX model, why don't games just come to market with the Hybrid model in the first place? That way, they aren't forcing Subs on players who don't want them. They get a constant stream of revenue from the get go and finally, they don't have the perceived failure of going from a Sub only model to a Hybrid model.
ESO and Wildstar may indeed (and probably will) move to a hybrid model at some point. When they do, the gaming community will happily dub them a failure (as they have with SWTOR.) Or, you can simply come to market with the model that seems to be the most successful in the current MMO market.
The answer to that one is easy. During a game's launch window, they can get box sales and subscriptions out of a lot of players who are impatient to experience the content, and so willing to pay the price, but who would have taken the free option if it existed from launch. The best way to maximize revenue is to start out sub only, and only convert to Freemium when the "average" player starts to run out of content and quit.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Subs, hybrid, F2P is irrelevant in the eyes of a good game. The argument here is valid, because ESO is a bad game.
If it's an objectively bad game, it will fail no matter what model it uses, and the servers will shut down. If it manages to keep the servers running, it isn't a bad game, just a game you happen not to like.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I cannot speak to the best money making strategy for an MMO. There are a few rich data analysts that figured all of that out years ago. By now it is a known formula that you just plug your numbers into and adapt to. However, these actuary like statistics and formulas are based on broad averages and "the norm." So they don't apply to me. I can speak to my experience and preferences. After almost 2 decades of playing "MMOs," I have grown to most appreciate and play the subscription model and in some cases an MTX addition to that model that does not significantly change gameplay. A couple of examples:
SWTOR (paid subscriber almost since release). SWTOR f2p is honestly nothing more than a trial. You can't really play the game in "f2p ." Recently tried playing with a friend with a f2p membership, and he was so crippled he had to subscribe after two game sessions. Paying a' la carte for everything that a subscriber gets would be moronic (if you do this, please send me your credit card number, and I will return a free invisible outfit for the character of your choice). But despite my subscription, I happily buy the occasional booster pack and additions that I consider actually tangible, like character slots or account wide travel.
Pirate101 is one that I maintain a subscription for both me and my son. I actually play more than him. Again, f2p is just a trial. Again, I still use MTX to buy the odd non-game changer like a penny farthing bike.
What I hate is the "true" f2p. Like everything from PWE. I recently tried Neverwinter and have played both of the other Cryptic games. I always feel like I am being mugged. With the 15 or more currencies, the forced dailies to be viable in the economy and game, and the endless ads for overpriced digital crap (that doesn't even look good in the engine), I come away with the feeling that I've actually been taken advantage of by a con man. Would much rather have the old Champions for $15 a month.
Not going to say that I will never play f2p games, but I would much rather subscribe to a well made, regularly updated, balanced game.
Unfortunately, I am not the normal target audience. Let's take Star Citizen for an example, I'd gladly pay $15 a month with the ability to MTX some new stickers for my ship. The majority don't want to pay a monthly fee, but they want to be able to buy a $199 Dreadnought on day one that will kill the majority of other players instantly.
Though I am not the statistic aimed at by the data crunchers, I hope that there will continue to be games that fit my desires. And I will let the majority keep playing their game equivalents of Duck Dynasty and Jersey Shore.
Hi folks!
I saw a number of posters in the above thread reference my estimate for Star Wars the Old Republic. While many of the numbers in my chart are derived from a number of different sources, this one comes from a specific place:
Electronic Arts Earnings call May 2013
The quote is:
"As you know, last year we took a new approach in Austin by introducing some new pricing models to Star Wars: The Old Republic, including a free-to-play model for our fans. Since it was induced in November, we've added more than 1.7 million new players on the free model to the service. And the number of subscriptions has stabilized at just under half a million."
This information essentially has to be true. Providing misleading or false information in this venue is a HUGE violation of SEC rules and securities laws. These answers are carefully scripted and usually vetted by the lawyers. There's essentially zero chance he's lying.
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt of getting to 500k subs because I've heard through my industry contacts that they are slowly increasing subs monthly. I debited them some free accounts on the assumption that the growth in subs is coming from conversion from free. So my math is 500k subs + 1.5 million free == 2 million total.
(We can argue about if those people are actually playing monthly or not. One thing about free players is that nobody cares if they show up to play in any given month or not and since you never "expire" from free you can rack up a big number that doesn't match player activity. On the other hand I think that the game is still a big draw especially for folks who are using MTX only so I believe most of those free player numbers are regularly logged on to the game.)
Playing - FFXIV, ESO
Played - FFXI, WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Aion, SWToR, LotRO, GW2, TERA, Rift, ArcheAge, TSW
This completely, the sub model that requires a constant sub is DEAD. I don't mind subbing but I don't want to sub all the time because as you have said most of us are far more casual than the target market in the old days. Add to that the fact that most of us have games coming out our wazoo and its not a shock that sub only games are not the future but a footnote in the past. Like I said when I'm playing a game heavy I sub but when I'm not.. I still play just don't pay.Elder scrolls like most games will launch sub and be a hybrid model within a year or two just like nearly every mmo. The fact that they aren't making a real elder scrolls game but instead a themepark with rvr makes me think that people will tire after the first 3 monbths(like always) and subs will fall which will lead to "shock" them going to the hybrid model to keep from losing their asses.
The fact that over the last decade subscriptions have not had any form of inflation hit them should indicate that people don't mind paying it. $15 a month is absolutely nothing. I couldn't imagine if the housing market or buying a car stayed the same over a decade, its a good deal. If $15 a month was the base in the early 2000s, then it should be at least double that now but it hasn't budged.
Nobody minds paying it, bottom line. If they do, they probably dont need to invest time in gaming so much if $15 could make or break you. Its chump change (and I pay for myself and my son, no biggy). Subscription issues become factor when you get a piece of crap game and they want you to pay for it, for a good quality game that gets constant updates, I'd be willing to pay a higher sub, no doubt.
-Mongoose
I dont have a problem with the sub model, i have a problem with business ONLY offering the sub model in this day and age. The MMO market players now tend to move more quickly than they do 5-10yrs ago and it has nothing with being a good game or not.. Vets of the genre may talk how mmo's now-a-days are just cashing in etc, and do nothing to keep the players hook etc.. true words is its freaking hard to keep gamers hook in today's distracting society, WoW came out the right time no doubt, and i doubt if you release WoW today if would climb that high..
Having other payment model is the way to go in this short attention span of casual mmo gamers. Seems, what they prefer is pay $15 a month, quit, hope you come back, pay another $15 for 1month and hope the fire re-kindles and u stay a bit longer..
Oh please... subscription this, buy to play that... what ever system any company goes with just boils down to "it is what it is". If you do not like the pay model then don't pick up the system. All the charts and figures you can dig up and post will not initially change one thing. Once the game launches it may change a bit down the road. Until then, why beat this old dead horse yet once again.
So may weary posts that have been dusted off and had a few names changed to reflect a new title then reposted to stir up the mud.
Ratero.
Game isn't just being made for PC, it's also being made for console, and in order to play it on the console you have to pay TWICE.
Try and tell all the console gamers that purchased Skyrim and Oblivion that in order to play the new Elderscrolls game they'll need to pay $15 on top of whatever they pay for Playstation plus in order to play games online.
WoW is an ANOMOLY! It's not the norm, and ESO isn't going to attract millions of subs on a PC. They want, and probably need, the console subs.
This article disgusts me.
Small budget game developer writing about how he can best exploit the players.
Games that handle microtransactions well: EQ2, WoW
Games that don't: LOTRO, Rift
and here is why: as a subber in EQ2 or WoW Im not bombarded with the cash shop. EQ2 gives me a popup upon logging in. WoW you wouldnt know its there if you didnt press the new UI button. Im not bombarded with shitty gimmick lock boxes.
Lotro Im reminded of the shop constantly. And Rift, for its player friendly model, has an immersion breaking, enormous cash shop every single time you vendor.
If you want my money, micro transactions are ok for cosmetics. mounts, special furniture, etc. but i dont want to be reminded of it while playing. It makes it seem like you dont give a fuck about your game world, just about money.
And you said you were planning micro transactions later-that better be clear to everyone from day one. No bait and switch. And if you are planning a f2p option but dont launch with it, then fuck you and I hope your company goes bankrupt. You are a large part of what is wrong with the industry. Dont exploit your customers. Dont bait and switch. Be honest from the start.
Yes, how dare they! How dare a for profit business try to turn a profit! How dare they adjust their business model to fit the performance of their product! How dare they prepare for the possibility they will need to go freemium, but launch sub only, rather than screwing themselves out of a lot of revenue by doing freemium from day one!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Uhwop, "Game isn't just being made for PC, it's also being made for console, and in order to play it on the console you have to pay TWICE.
Try and tell all the console gamers that purchased Skyrim and Oblivion that in order to play the new Elderscrolls game they'll need to pay $15 on top of whatever they pay for Playstation plus in order to play games online. "
to be honest...you are not paying twice unless you specifically purchase plus or gold and do not use it for anything else. Most people already have Playstation Plus or an xbox gold membership...
As for the subscription...I am glad that there is one. It cuts down on gold farmers spamming, it does raise the level of maturity of the people that play, IMHO. I played LotRo from the start until it went F2P now I might log in once every other month or so. Same thing for SWTOR, Rift, Conan and Aion. I stopped playing them once they went F2P. I am just speaking from my experience. And I have not had any awesome experiences with F2P games...