Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Top Reasons Why a MMORPG Loses Longevity
bcbully
Member EpicPosts: 11,843
Just 5 years ago, it seems we played mmorpgs longer. Yes, there are more games now, but what are the recent design/features of new mmorpgs that are shortening their longevity? I have two.
1. Fast XP gain. Not only is XP gain much quicker, you can get it from anywhere now. I like being able to do whatever and get XP, but when you put it with a higher rate of gain, players whiz through content. Within weeks players have every skill, and every piece of gear they want. Even before they know what they need. Before they are even ready to be done, they're done until the next patch.
2. Too much map detail. Everything a game world has to offer is being neatly marked for easy of access. Even if there are a lot of quest or a lot of places to explore, marking them with such detail shots players through. I've found myself looking at mini maps more than the actual game world. Barreling right past monsters eating people, people eating monsters whatever, with my eyes glued to the mark. I don't think most players couldn't slow down if they wanted to.
Have you thought about it? What design choices, what features have you noticed? Features/desings that turn games you like into 2 month let downs.
Comments
I agree 100%
every new game i try i can max level within the free month without a problem what so ever. infact all the lower level raids or dungeons are nothing to me because i dont even need that gear i will out level it in a few ours anyways. people cry and cry about grinding or not wanting to level anymore, but they are the same ones that cry and cry when they are max level and bored.
and the map detail is spot on, todays games you click the NPC a bunch of times bring up the map and see where you need to go. complete the quest here then move on to the next area doing the same thing. These arnt worlds anymore to explore and find quest to do, they are little zones maped out for you. its like playing a single player RPG with the strategy guide built into the game. and other players are just in your way.
i said it before and i say it again, if games are going to make it this easy to level, then they better have alot to do for maxed out characters or they will leave. see every game in the last 8 years or so.
1. I agree with you, however IMO I think they should remove levels all together, and instead focus on a character's skills rather than a number that defines your character overall. I don't want to have to grind off mobs to increase a bunch of skills together, some of which I may never use, as well as be given a limited set of skills that define my class, and thats it. I don't necessarily mind classes, however I would prefer it if there are going to be classes, at least make it so that you can train individual skills in each, such as if I want to get really good with a sword, I should just be able to train the sword skill, as well as strength. Not sit there and wait for the next number to appear over my head to give me a little bit of everything.
2. IMO I understand the need for maps, however I feel like the game shouldn't hand you everything on the map, I feel like it should give you a customizable map that you can make marks on/place icons on yourself, to sort of remember where things are. Could make for an interesting profession of adventurer, where a dude could literally adventure to make maps to sell.
Another design choice I've seen with many MMOs that I absolutely hate is quest hubs. What was the last game that you've played where you remember there being a reason to go back to "X Forest" or "Y Canyon" after you've already leveled up past that content? The problem is most zones are exactly as they imply, zones. They aren't parts of a living, breathing world, they are simply areas to be completed, and once its done there's no reason to go back to them what so ever. Some of my fondest memories from other games would be leveling in an area, and seeing max geared guys run by in awesome armor that were going to fight a boss in the area or were waiting for the rest of their group to go take on a high level dungeon. One I can remember specifically is Anarchy Online, there is the beginning area where players in the Shadowlands start off. In a part of the area is a very powerful boss that pretty much requires you to be very high, if not max level, to down as part of a mission. I like that kind of stuff. I want areas to be actual parts of the game world, not just a zone you blast through and then never touch again.
Another thing, I'm tired of MMOs calling them "Quests". Its not that I hate the term, I just hate that the term is used so loosely that it's just silly. A quest should feel like a "Quest", and not a task. I want a quest to be something you get, that takes you on a journey to different areas, explore different caves and dungeons, to complete something that truly feels noteworthy, rather than "ERMAGERD MAH CORN IS DED, KILL TEN OF TEH RATZ IN MAH GARDEN". I don't mind small tasks, but don't make tasks the primary mode of leveling. Make many ways to level.
But thats just my opinion.
Wow great eye man. 100% up time, that certainly shortens things.
* Crappy Graphics Engine, especially when MMO gameplay comes into effect. I can understand 100+ should have a negative impact, but when only a dozen other players on-screen halves the framerate, that is a major deterrent. In an MMO. I generally like the unique graphics each game offers, but slow frame rates is a killer for me (especially when other "equal" games play much better on the same machine).
* Lousy customer service. OK spikes happen and when tickets or petitions get submitted (online or offline), everyone waits their turn. Some companies either abandon customer service entirely, or they start getting cheap and using "bots" to give scripted answers, which sometimes don't have anything to do with the original complaint! (multiple games do this btw) Major turn-off for games I pay for.
* Load screens. WoW did a seemless (or near seemless) world in 2004... 10 years later, and ?
* Boring economy. Farming for guild mats or unique items is a good time-killer while chatting, or waiting for a raid / friends, especially when going as fast and efficient as possible to shave time for maximum odds or payouts, challenging ones self. Odds are equal from player to player, so it's fair. Farming just to get complete junk to sell to vendors for currency, in order to buy cash-shop related items someone is selling, is a PoS economy, essentially boring. Game drops > Cash shop sold items.
Oh well, just a couple things I though of. There are surely many more .. while the major ones might really irritate someone, it's really a combination of sometimes 100's of "little things", lumped in several categories, IMO.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
That's brilliant. The better/more detailed the explorer, the better the map.
Sums up how I feel.
My top 3 in random order or could really order them anyway you want but they all end badly for a game.
1. They are too easy
2. No meaningful PvP
3. Lack of updates
1. Lack of difficulty gated gear.
2. Lack of roles for characters
3. the ability to have one character have mutiple roles.
4. The lack of randomness in the world - that is there is literally no chance you will run into something 'too tough' for your character.
5. no death penalty.
There are lots of reasons why modern games have less longevity. BUT IT IS BY DESIGN! The problem with longevity is it hurts mass appeal. Circa 2001 had great longevity. It had shit mass appeal. Modern MMOs - good mass appeal - crap longevity. Its fine to imagine that the games back in the old days were better. But they were not popular - not at all.
One-way road design are one of many reasons.
You follow the rail from start to end and there are nothing for you to do anymore. So game become short.
Though it short , it still last for a month , maybe 2 or 3 if you play less .
But it can't compare to free roaming games.
Problem here is how progressions design.
One-way are easier to design than free roaming
In one-way road , at level X you will do X things that designed for your level
In free roaming , at level X you may do X , Y , Z things and it out of hand of developer.
Easy to see of the change of design is how difference players local they stats in old and new game.
In old game you have to local stats point by yourself while current auto local all of them for you.
It because difficult to predict how player will build they character
So to make design more easy , they auto local all of them.
All reason down to one : cost to make new MMORPG .
Money problem is evil that shorten soul of MMORPGs (lol) .
Linear Progression and Endless Questing.....
End Game Consists of just Raiding and Tacked on PVP
Tacked on Crafting System
No Social Features or Systems to promote community
Lack of everything from MMORPGs pre-WoW era in terms of features, and mechanics
I wouldn't say they weren't popular, just not mainstream at the time and also internet services back during that time wasn't readily available like it is now. They were popular to the actual gamer and not the person who only can play 1 hr a month and demands that it be dumbed down just for their poor lack of time management.
I think all of this can be summarized by saying: There is too much 'Ease of Access'.
This can apply to how easily new items, experience, and information is obtained. but also to more subtle things like ease of travel (indefinite ability to run, heavy use of teleportation, many forms of quick travel etc.). And, even as far as something like easement on death penalties. As, being able to recover quicker means you can jump back into the fray faster as well. You could even go as far as to say that a plethora of free to play games gives the genre an easier point of access. Because you can pay into these games with less money over more time. And as you go deeper you can pay even more (as apposed to subscription games which demand the same upfront cost regardless of the level of ones involvement)
But, all of this is to dance around what is really being said here. If most of the aspects of progressively newer games are adding easements. Then our MMORPG's are simply becoming easier on the whole. I like the approach of this thread though. Instead of a troll baiting title like "Games are too easy!" It is getting us to really think about why they are too easy. The many features that are causing this. And, how they are causing this. But, it is also reinforcing that simple fact. Our games (speaking in respects to this genre at least when saying 'our') are getting easier and have been getting easier for some time.
The only one for me is solo gameplay. People log in, play it like a single player game, thus have no investment in the world or people around them, so just perform mindless, boring quests over and over again until tedium sets in. Example:
Quest A: Help me, my son has been kidnapped by bandits. Please save him! - Fight through mobs, click on npc, return to quest giver.
Quest B: I lost my spectacles, I can't work without them, my children will starve! - Fight through mobs, click on glowing object, return to quest giver.
And so the players make no connection with other players in the world, realise they're performing the same task over and over again, just dressed up differently, things grow more and more stale as the realisation continues to grow - with no reason to stay, they move on.
Make a game world as beautiful as you want, but if what you've put inside it doesn't draw people together then longevity dies.
Any game looses longevity. How long can you do similar things over and over? Even if you read books or watch movies, you get tired of watching same type/author *all* the time, you need some change.
My longest single player game is probably Skyrim with ca 100 something hours. All other single player games with "longevity" I got too bored after 40 hours once I had finished the game for first time.
My longest two MMO are somewhere around 1000 hours each, BUT: that doesn't mean it was always enjoyable, one just realized it was necessary to reach a certain goal because time-sinks have been and still are part of MMO design.
And that's a problem (even with some single player games) - there is too much copying of existing mechanics, too little innovation. And if it comes, as 2014/2015 could show, too many at once that again do probably all the same (e.g. now suddenly there is going to be housing everywhere when it was basically extinct the past few years).
--------------------------------------------
Youtube newb:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC96N3cxBuqKTPV2BQNlzGUw
To me... where MMO's lose their longevity...
1) Lack of character customization.
a) cosmetic:
When I level up to max level, then start raiding and pvp'ing only to end up looking just like everyone else that plays my class. That's an issue.
I can't add any real detail or features to my characters in my games. Can't adjust height, weight, add tattoos/scars, modify hair or other features to the level that I feel is adequate for todays technology.
b) skills/player functionality:
I do miss the days when you could actually semi-hybridize your character builds in some games (the ones I play/played). Today, you are pigeonholed into 1 strict role with very few choices. Yes, I get that people find a way to find an 'optimal' spec and then the cookie-cutter templates begin... but from a personal perspective and for the sake of enjoying gameplay and having a 'custom' character, I liked hybrid builds.
2) Lack of any kind of impact or bond with the game world.
a) Most games don't feature player created houses, villages, vendors/shops, military bases, etc.,...
If you want players to 'care' about the world/zone then you have to give them something to care about. How about their own property?
I do miss base defense in SWG.
Sitting in your city (Cantina) and looking at radar/map and seeing a sea of red rolling into your town. You instantly sent a guild message/defense message and called in the troops to defend the base.
Full on city wars.
No, the houses weren't destructible, but if you placed your city on the right terrain and then laid out your structures in the right way, you made your base (or bases) more difficult to attack/easier to defend.
And overall, living in a city helped feel like a member of the community.
b) Why the hell do I have to see things in the gaming world that I just helped defeat? Yes, I realize it's a 'persistent world'. But something that really has driven me crazy is that the world should change as you go through quests and such. Yes, many areas can be 'instanced' and that tech has come a long way... but from expansion to expansion, why wouldn't the world change more? If I spend hours and hours and hours raiding and killing a boss... it should change the gaming world for me. If I spend hours and hours killing mobs in zone X, then I should greatly impact that zone. I expect to see that. To date... I don't.
The main point for me is continuous disappearance of RPG elements. Basically you cannot play your role of choice (as in ROLE playing game) but are given a predefined story with some optional side quests at best.
The games of old "(I know, I know, nostalgia) gave you a lot of choices to shape your character (race, class, allignment, deity/religion etc.). Today you get a few classes per race that are a copy of the classes of other races (almost no racial attributes or exclusive classes).
The whole story is on rails with walls along the way. You have NO incluence on the world at all. You cannot leave a mark that is visible to other players.
That is the main problem with MMORPG longevity from my point of view.
Huge world random Rifts or Mobs invasions . For example there is a town and some time Mobs invade it and players can do quest or buy sell in that town but they can clear it and than to escort NPC back to town . I know to script such thing would be hard but we need a completely new way to handle events.
Good combat and animation fast and dynamic fights if you ever played a Gw2 Elem asura dagger dagger this is how combat should look.
Lots of random quests and stuff to explore in world dungeons keeps. Some time a unattractive lost dungeon to have and epic hidden boss which will reward you with a Epic looking weapon.
There is lot f things to bring to the table but dosen't look like any one is focused on innovation of MMO or building a real sandbox .
But if I would plan to create something new I will start with hiring right people for that. I don't want to see a game lead designer a unsuccessful layer don't remember names.... but This people are the core and only people who love gaming.Unfortunately this will never happen no body in our world is focused on inovation in huge scale. Exploitative innovation is the key to money making and this is in all fields. Gpu 10+- % better than previous series MMO worst than some RPG in 2002, no body is interested in new type of energy as long they have Oil plus lower is the amount higher is the price.
[quote]The main point for me is continuous disappearance of RPG elements. Basically you cannot play your role of choice (as in ROLE playing game) but are given a predefined story with some optional side quests at best.[/quote]
This is something they could incorporate into more modern MMOs - I like how in EQ2 they allowed you to become a traitor and join the other side. I liked how in EQ1 you could make friends with any faction. I don't really like cut scenes and movies and I want to see the game itself 'act things out'.
So I think there is some hope here. One thing that disappointed me about GW2 (and alot of modern MMOs) is an automatic assumption about who the bad guys are. Ya know Arenanet maybe I want to help the seperatists once on a while?...<g>
It will take one modern game doing this kind of thing well to put it back in vogue again..
"And that's a problem (even with some single player games) - there is too much copying of existing mechanics, too little innovation. And if it comes, as 2014/2015 could show, too many at once that again do probably all the same (e.g. now suddenly there is going to be housing everywhere when it was basically extinct the past few years)."
Housing was extinct because Blizzard thought it was worthless, stupid and likely detrimental to your MMO. I tend to agree with them for the most part. How much does game play does housing add compared to the dollars spent?
People on this forum like to bag on the 'lack of innovation' but that basically boils down to the fact that the game doesn't feel like how you would really imagine a fantasy world to be. None of the other gaming 'genres' are significantly innovated from other games.
Computers are limited by programmers ingenuity and time - and there is only so much they can do with them right now. They simply can't make the MMO that alot of players want - which is basically a Holodeck. I get it..
I thought Dynamic events were disappointing too. But you know what they are better then escort quests in WoW and Fates in FFXIV. So hey I guess that is progress even if it doesn't live up to the hype. They can't even get pathing right - yet some people are constantly asking for massive innovation.
If you want that you better plan on living a long time. MMO worlds are static and fixed - and MMO NPCs are dumber then rocks. Until they fix these core design issues all MMOs are going to be seem not that innovative.
Old MMOs are like you are planning to have a dinner with some friends, buying all the needed stuff, do the cooking together, have a nice long dinner together, haven drinks and more conversation afterwards and even doing the dishes together at the end.
New MMOs are like moving your car to the drive-in counter of a fast food chain, paying, eating in 5 minutes together with many other people which you don't know and don't talk to, and that's it. And the next fast food restaurant is just around the corner.
That's the reason why MMOs have no longevity for individual players anyomre imo.
Has anyone mentioned that the number of players interested in playing the same game for a year or more isn't all that large? If you split those players up between the various MMORPGs available and you get a pretty small audience per MMORPG that even wants to stick around for a year or more, much less actually does because they like the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
One word sums it all up: Efficiency.
As Robokapp mentioned, 100% uptime makes the games fly by. Fight a group of monsters. Run to the next group. By the time you're there, you have full health, mana, and stamina. If you happen to fail, ie: die, it is just a mouse click to the nearest "raise dead pad." You may lose a couple of silvers, but you're back in the thick of things instantly.
Magical, stat boosting equipment is thrown at you left and right. In a matter of a few levels, you change/upgrade three or four times.
Again, as Robokapp pointed out with the Murloks (I fondly recall that specific Murlok camp near the Sawmill), when was the last time a player observed the situation first before wading in, aside from raids? When was the last time players had to "work their way" in, picking off a monster here or there, and back out again?
Combat itself has gone from minutes long affairs to just a few seconds. There is no more strategy involved. Just mash your 3-8 buttons and you're golden. If you get to a second rotation, you're sucking at combat.
Efficiency. Anything less is deemed "boring."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Combat in WoW has been like this since at least TBC. Anyone remembering WoW's "minutes long combat" hasn't played WoW in years. They are also misremembering WoW's combat.
The thing with the murlocs was that one murloc that would stand on the side of the road and ambush you as you road by on your mount. You'd be going along, all happy and BAM there's a spear sticking out of you and you're dismounted and slowly staggering along. I don't know how many times I killed that one guy, but it was a lot.
WoW's change in combat can be summed up by the raptors that were stationed outside of the first Horde camp in Stanglethorn. When players got there, the raptors were too high a level for the players to kill efficiently. The problem wasn't the damage the players could do. If the player could live long enough it wouldn't take minutes to kill a raptor. It was that the raptors killed the players in seconds. After players got a couple levels under their belt, they could kill the raptors. Before leaving STV leatherworkers could farm them. In Wrath, Cata and Panda Land, players were rarely sent into areas where the level of the mobs exceeded their own by any great margin. The raptors outside of the STV base camp stopped happening. The length of combat didn't change by any great deal, players just stopped dying so much.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.