I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
That's the difference between a skill based & a lvl based game.
A lvl based game makes you stronger passively. You have to do very little work to feel like you're improving. These games scale your strength almost entirely off of 'passive' stats. Usually obtained through better & better gear.
A skill based game does little to make you stronger. How 'good' or 'powerful' you are is almost entirely determined by how well you play the game, instead of how well the game tells you how awesome you are. These games scale your strength based on how well you are able to 'build' your character, making clever choices about how you spec them, what skills you coose to use, and how well / efficiently you execute them in combat.
The problem w/ GW2 is that it was never intended to be a lvl based game. However, because of how it presents itself at earlier levels, many players get lulled into believing the game is 'just like EQ / WoW'. Which is very much false. The lvling progression for the game is pretty fast, and requires little effort (even less now). And how strong you feel / become depends entirely on how well you build your character / play your build.
- For example, in a game like EQ, you'd lvl up, go back, and say 'hah, look how awesome i am, I'm 1 shotting most of the enemies in this game!'. In GW2, you can't do that passed the earliest zones. However, how strong you are can definitely be seen by players of different calibers. For example, some people may struggle to complete the dungeon Arah, or lower lvl fractals. However, there are other players who can solo these dungeons with limited difficulty. That is what the game is about.
I'm eagerly awaiting ESO but as a closed beta tester I can't really go into specifics except that I love the exploration and a number of other things. Will be happy to elucidate when they lift the NDA. I'm not saying it's the "be all - end all" but I see many things I dearly like and the things I dislike are minor in comparison.
I will never offend anyone's game because if it makes them happy then it's done its job. I will simply say the combination of mechanics suits me better.
I definitely agree on ESO (though, like you, I can't say too much just yet).
However, I find it surprising that you make a distinction between the two games. They have A LOT in common. There are clear differences, but many of the base mechanics are similar between the 2 games. Though in certain ways I feel like ESO may do them better (if they can iron out of the bugs / performance issues).
I'm eagerly awaiting ESO but as a closed beta tester I can't really go into specifics except that I love the exploration and a number of other things. Will be happy to elucidate when they lift the NDA. I'm not saying it's the "be all - end all" but I see many things I dearly like and the things I dislike are minor in comparison.
I will never offend anyone's game because if it makes them happy then it's done its job. I will simply say the combination of mechanics suits me better.
I definitely agree on ESO (though, like you, I can't say too much just yet).
However, I find it surprising that you make a distinction between the two games. They have A LOT in common. There are clear differences, but many of the base mechanics are similar between the 2 games. Though in certain ways I feel like ESO may do them better (if they can iron out of the bugs / performance issues).
Don't be too surprised; I never trashed GW2. GW2 has some good mechanics and beautiful graphics. It's just that where the things I didn't like so much in ESO were minor to me, the ones I don't like in GW2 are a big deal (again, to me).
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard It will be quite entertaining when worse threads will appear on the ESO forum one or two months after release... WAY worse.
I REALLY like that it scales you, it lets you do any content you want and still have it challenging and lets you play with your friends no matter what level you are.
I really am offput future themepark mmos like ESO that dont have this feature (as far as I know). I fail to see the downside personally.
But I'm not generally a themepark mmo fan tho, so I guess each to his own. I think that even tho gw2 is a themepark mmo it was designed to appeal to people who dont like the genre in many ways, they said as much prior to release.
I REALLY like that it scales you, it lets you do any content you want and still have it challenging and lets you play with your friends no matter what level you are.
I really am offput future themepark mmos like ESO that dont have this feature (as far as I know). I fail to see the downside personally.
But I'm not generally a themepark mmo fan tho, so I guess each to his own. I think that even tho gw2 is a themepark mmo it was designed to appeal to people who dont like the genre in many ways, they said as much prior to release.
I guess you and I have a difference in how we throw about the "theme park" tag. ESO to me is not theme park at all and GW2 very much is. Regardless it's good that there are multiple games for multiple play styles and hopefully everyone finds one they can call home!
I REALLY like that it scales you, it lets you do any content you want and still have it challenging and lets you play with your friends no matter what level you are.
I really am offput future themepark mmos like ESO that dont have this feature (as far as I know). I fail to see the downside personally.
But I'm not generally a themepark mmo fan tho, so I guess each to his own. I think that even tho gw2 is a themepark mmo it was designed to appeal to people who dont like the genre in many ways, they said as much prior to release.
I guess you and I have a difference in how we throw about the "theme park" tag. ESO to me is not theme park at all and GW2 very much is. Regardless it's good that there are multiple games for multiple play styles and hopefully everyone finds one they can call home!
I've played ESO, it's the very definition of a themepark.
I really was hoping that it would bring some DAoC feel back and be a great experience myself.
I could not get into the classes I played, and the world felt cluttered with quests/hearts or whatever they want to call them.
I just couldn't get into it either, thought of going back and trying to maybe just make myself get through the beginning and hope it changes later, but still not sure what I would want to play, as the classes I tried just didn't do much for me.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
If you're higher level and with the right equiment, you should be able to go back and solo just about anything except for some (well, maybe most) of the champions.
Why would you want to go back to an area if you'd be so much stronger than the mobs? There's no challenge in that. Do you feel to need to be "admired" by lower level players? If you're good, you'll be considerably stronger than the lower level players anyway, it just won't be a given, you'll have to work for it and prove your skill instead of just standing there in the middle of a pack of mobs and one-shotting the lot of them. If you're looking for that kind of experience, then GW2 will not provide it, sorry.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
I think it's actually one of the better features of the game that you scale down, the lower level zones stays interesting when you dont become a demigod when going back. You are still much stronger but not like in many other themeparks where you can stand still getting beaten by 20 low lvl mobs and not loosing any HP, that's just stupid and un-immersive as hell.
The reason why I dont like GW2 leveling is in the same category though, the lack of character progression. The lack of new abilities or customization to the old ones. After lvl20 there's basically nothing else but cosmetic character progression and that's not much fun with such a high level cap. You keep dinging but you dont feel the dings because nothing changes with your character.
The ideal mmorpg for me would have a leveling system where you would not gain any extra stats besides your base stats at all when dinging, only gear upgrades and customization would make you slightly stronger. The progression would be in form of gaining new abilites and skills all the way up to the max level (or practically infinitely, like in EVE), with more complex customization and upgrade options unlocked to you via skill training. You would evolve all the time but not gain stupidly powerful passive power that renders 95%+ of the content irrelevant like in most mmorpgs.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
If you dont like the game, becouse of subjective feeling there is nothing game can do about it and probably it's not game for you.
But when you are complaining that you ' dont feel ' power and you cant be bothered to find what you are doing wrong, problem is within player. In every single mmo that i have played , if you realy wanted to ' feel powerfull ' you had to do some extra search for info how to optimize your gear and build and gw2 is no exception. You dont do this - you are crap in every mmo with progression.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
If you dont like the game, becouse of subjective feeling there is nothing game can do about it and probably it's not game for you.
But when you are complaining that you ' dont feel ' power and you cant be bothered to find what you are doing wrong, problem is within player. In every single mmo that i have played , if you realy wanted to ' feel powerfull ' you had to do some extra search for info how to optimize your gear and build and gw2 is no exception. You dont do this - you are crap in every mmo with progression.
I didn't make that point, but since I was the penultimate poster I will respond. The job of a developer fundamentally is to keep people playing their game and spending their money on it. If the developer fails to do this they can't blame the player; I doubt that argument would stretch far with their funders/ shareholders.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
If you dont like the game, becouse of subjective feeling there is nothing game can do about it and probably it's not game for you.
But when you are complaining that you ' dont feel ' power and you cant be bothered to find what you are doing wrong, problem is within player. In every single mmo that i have played , if you realy wanted to ' feel powerfull ' you had to do some extra search for info how to optimize your gear and build and gw2 is no exception. You dont do this - you are crap in every mmo with progression.
I didn't make that point, but since I was the penultimate poster I will respond. The job of a developer fundamentally is to keep people playing their game and spending their money on it. If the developer fails to do this they can't blame the player; I doubt that argument would stretch far with their funders/ shareholders.
You can blame player when he is complaining about something thats not true.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
If you dont like the game, becouse of subjective feeling there is nothing game can do about it and probably it's not game for you.
But when you are complaining that you ' dont feel ' power and you cant be bothered to find what you are doing wrong, problem is within player. In every single mmo that i have played , if you realy wanted to ' feel powerfull ' you had to do some extra search for info how to optimize your gear and build and gw2 is no exception. You dont do this - you are crap in every mmo with progression.
I didn't make that point, but since I was the penultimate poster I will respond. The job of a developer fundamentally is to keep people playing their game and spending their money on it. If the developer fails to do this they can't blame the player; I doubt that argument would stretch far with their funders/ shareholders.
You can blame player when he is complaining about something thats not true.
Again no; their perception is very important- it dictates whether they will be a customer or not.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
If you dont like the game, becouse of subjective feeling there is nothing game can do about it and probably it's not game for you.
But when you are complaining that you ' dont feel ' power and you cant be bothered to find what you are doing wrong, problem is within player. In every single mmo that i have played , if you realy wanted to ' feel powerfull ' you had to do some extra search for info how to optimize your gear and build and gw2 is no exception. You dont do this - you are crap in every mmo with progression.
I didn't make that point, but since I was the penultimate poster I will respond. The job of a developer fundamentally is to keep people playing their game and spending their money on it. If the developer fails to do this they can't blame the player; I doubt that argument would stretch far with their funders/ shareholders.
You can blame player when he is complaining about something thats not true.
Again no; their perception is very important- it dictates whether they will be a customer or not.
Perception is subjective and you cant make game that will be liked by every one. In mmos players always make choices - in their class of choice, their build, their gear, When you pick class that doesnt suit your playstyle, you make bad gearing choice, you make bad build - you will always feel underpowered no matter how good game is and this case for ALL mmos with progression.
If the fact that you must make good choice in all these aspects to fully enjoy game is problem for you, you play wrong genre of games.
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
If you dont like the game, becouse of subjective feeling there is nothing game can do about it and probably it's not game for you.
But when you are complaining that you ' dont feel ' power and you cant be bothered to find what you are doing wrong, problem is within player. In every single mmo that i have played , if you realy wanted to ' feel powerfull ' you had to do some extra search for info how to optimize your gear and build and gw2 is no exception. You dont do this - you are crap in every mmo with progression.
I didn't make that point, but since I was the penultimate poster I will respond. The job of a developer fundamentally is to keep people playing their game and spending their money on it. If the developer fails to do this they can't blame the player; I doubt that argument would stretch far with their funders/ shareholders.
You can blame player when he is complaining about something thats not true.
Again no; their perception is very important- it dictates whether they will be a customer or not.
Perception is subjective and you cant make game that will be liked by every one. In mmos players always make choices - in their class of choice, their build, their gear, When you pick class that doesnt suit your playstyle, you make bad gearing choice, you make bad build - you will always feel underpowered no matter how good game is and this case for ALL mmos with progression.
If the fact that you must make good choice in all these aspects to fully enjoy game is problem for you, you play wrong genre of games.
Again, I did not make this point. But no, the fault lies with the developer; unless I am not the target audience- but I and many other people who dislike the game here clearly were.
Read back through the 'don't count them out' interview. They are changing tack because the direction they were taking (living story) was not appealing to their core player base. They are also adding in lateral expansion in terms of skills to address the issue of a lack of character development. They are doing these things for a reason, like it or not.
he fault lies with the developer; unless I am not the target audience- but I and many other people who dislike the game here clearly were.
Read back through the 'don't count them out' interview. They are changing tack because the direction they were taking (living story) was not appealing to their core player base. They are also adding in lateral expansion in terms of skills to address the issue of a lack of character development. They are doing these things for a reason, like it or not.
It is also why they added in end game gear grind.
The target audience for GW2 is people that don't like MMORPGs.
People that like MMORPGs might or might not want to check GW2.
Who are the ones complaining about GW2?
People that like some other MMORPG?
About the Livingstory.
They also went from 1 month release to 2 weeks release based on player feedback.
And after the Christmas break, they are back to 2 weeks release until the first Living Story season end.
Then they will release a feature patch.
After that there will be Living Story Season 2.
I don't see what is the problem of a company responding to players feedback.
I think the opposite is actually the concerning thing/
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Hmm.I'm not sure what to say ... but fact is i was VERY hooked on Gw2 for long months after release. As I'm kind of player that need change from time to time (even bee it switching constantly between only games i can see myself to play even after 10 or 20 years, wow and swtor) I find myself having hard times to hook BACK AGAIN on Gw2. I find myself many times to log into Gw2 and then logout without playing actually. Or just for short. I think is that "jumping" from place to place by just clicking on map, no classic quest system that is still the best thing so far, ...
I have tried numerous times to get into GW2 as I'm usually between games (currently waiting for ESO) and I keep failing to stay interested. I think I have finally put my finger on what the problem for me is.
I never feel like I'm getting stronger. I completely detest that the no matter what level you are the game scales you to the area. I just don't understand this. It's like getting good at chess but if you play someone who's not at good you have to start out with less pieces.
I remember playing original EQ and having Dorn B'Dinn kick my ass in South Ro and how much satisfaction I got when I was much stronger and would seek him out for revenge. It's not that I need to feel I can just beat up on weaker things, but I should be able to if I want to. I guess there's a player base that finds this more challenging but for me I want to be challenged by things that are as strong as I'm supposed to be and able to go back to lesser zones and just look around if I want without having monsters 20 levels below me still being an issue.
I guess I just like the satisfaction of being able to look back at a tough area and know that now I am its master now. Is it just me?
Make a new character in GW2.
Go kill something.
Now buy the best no level requirement weapons in the TP.
Buy the white no level or level 2 requirement armor. Add different +10 power runes to every armor slot. Buy rice balls and eat them.
Now tell me there is no difference.
Now get a level 80 with full exotics into the same area.
Sneeze and kill everything.
This is one of those myths spread by people that either didn't play the game or only played it at the start and actually never got exotic armor.
ohh that does sound challenging .. Sneeze and kill a zone .. So in other words .. There scaling mechanic fails miserably...aint that rich
I really appreciate all the responses, even the ones that simply conclude I am playing "wrong". Honestly some of the feedback is a little defensive and "over the top"... this was just a discussion and my opinion. I never condemned the game as a failure or bad-mouthed it in any way. Still I appreciate everyone who took the time to chime in. Some people agree, some don't... I'm not on a mission to convince anyone of anything.
I did learn something though... I'll make sure next time I go to the grocery store I don't say too loudly that I dislike pistachio ice cream lest someone tell me I'm eating it wrong and my taste or opinion isn't "true" or "valid"!
Comments
That's the difference between a skill based & a lvl based game.
A lvl based game makes you stronger passively. You have to do very little work to feel like you're improving. These games scale your strength almost entirely off of 'passive' stats. Usually obtained through better & better gear.
A skill based game does little to make you stronger. How 'good' or 'powerful' you are is almost entirely determined by how well you play the game, instead of how well the game tells you how awesome you are. These games scale your strength based on how well you are able to 'build' your character, making clever choices about how you spec them, what skills you coose to use, and how well / efficiently you execute them in combat.
The problem w/ GW2 is that it was never intended to be a lvl based game. However, because of how it presents itself at earlier levels, many players get lulled into believing the game is 'just like EQ / WoW'. Which is very much false. The lvling progression for the game is pretty fast, and requires little effort (even less now). And how strong you feel / become depends entirely on how well you build your character / play your build.
- For example, in a game like EQ, you'd lvl up, go back, and say 'hah, look how awesome i am, I'm 1 shotting most of the enemies in this game!'. In GW2, you can't do that passed the earliest zones. However, how strong you are can definitely be seen by players of different calibers. For example, some people may struggle to complete the dungeon Arah, or lower lvl fractals. However, there are other players who can solo these dungeons with limited difficulty. That is what the game is about.
I definitely agree on ESO (though, like you, I can't say too much just yet).
However, I find it surprising that you make a distinction between the two games. They have A LOT in common. There are clear differences, but many of the base mechanics are similar between the 2 games. Though in certain ways I feel like ESO may do them better (if they can iron out of the bugs / performance issues).
Don't be too surprised; I never trashed GW2. GW2 has some good mechanics and beautiful graphics. It's just that where the things I didn't like so much in ESO were minor to me, the ones I don't like in GW2 are a big deal (again, to me).
won't be worse for me, that's all that matters.
I REALLY like that it scales you, it lets you do any content you want and still have it challenging and lets you play with your friends no matter what level you are.
I really am offput future themepark mmos like ESO that dont have this feature (as far as I know). I fail to see the downside personally.
But I'm not generally a themepark mmo fan tho, so I guess each to his own. I think that even tho gw2 is a themepark mmo it was designed to appeal to people who dont like the genre in many ways, they said as much prior to release.
My blog:
I guess you and I have a difference in how we throw about the "theme park" tag. ESO to me is not theme park at all and GW2 very much is. Regardless it's good that there are multiple games for multiple play styles and hopefully everyone finds one they can call home!
I've played ESO, it's the very definition of a themepark.
I really was hoping that it would bring some DAoC feel back and be a great experience myself.
I could not get into the classes I played, and the world felt cluttered with quests/hearts or whatever they want to call them.
I just couldn't get into it either, thought of going back and trying to maybe just make myself get through the beginning and hope it changes later, but still not sure what I would want to play, as the classes I tried just didn't do much for me.
I'm sure you could without a doubt
If you're higher level and with the right equiment, you should be able to go back and solo just about anything except for some (well, maybe most) of the champions.
Why would you want to go back to an area if you'd be so much stronger than the mobs? There's no challenge in that. Do you feel to need to be "admired" by lower level players? If you're good, you'll be considerably stronger than the lower level players anyway, it just won't be a given, you'll have to work for it and prove your skill instead of just standing there in the middle of a pack of mobs and one-shotting the lot of them. If you're looking for that kind of experience, then GW2 will not provide it, sorry.
I think it's actually one of the better features of the game that you scale down, the lower level zones stays interesting when you dont become a demigod when going back. You are still much stronger but not like in many other themeparks where you can stand still getting beaten by 20 low lvl mobs and not loosing any HP, that's just stupid and un-immersive as hell.
The reason why I dont like GW2 leveling is in the same category though, the lack of character progression. The lack of new abilities or customization to the old ones. After lvl20 there's basically nothing else but cosmetic character progression and that's not much fun with such a high level cap. You keep dinging but you dont feel the dings because nothing changes with your character.
The ideal mmorpg for me would have a leveling system where you would not gain any extra stats besides your base stats at all when dinging, only gear upgrades and customization would make you slightly stronger. The progression would be in form of gaining new abilites and skills all the way up to the max level (or practically infinitely, like in EVE), with more complex customization and upgrade options unlocked to you via skill training. You would evolve all the time but not gain stupidly powerful passive power that renders 95%+ of the content irrelevant like in most mmorpgs.
Your last sentence; if people cannot be bothered doing this or are bored of the game before it happens surely that is quite a major indictment.
I mean there is absolutely no positive slant to the argument that people didn't like the game enough to bother getting to cap.
If you dont like the game, becouse of subjective feeling there is nothing game can do about it and probably it's not game for you.
But when you are complaining that you ' dont feel ' power and you cant be bothered to find what you are doing wrong, problem is within player. In every single mmo that i have played , if you realy wanted to ' feel powerfull ' you had to do some extra search for info how to optimize your gear and build and gw2 is no exception. You dont do this - you are crap in every mmo with progression.
I didn't make that point, but since I was the penultimate poster I will respond. The job of a developer fundamentally is to keep people playing their game and spending their money on it. If the developer fails to do this they can't blame the player; I doubt that argument would stretch far with their funders/ shareholders.
You can blame player when he is complaining about something thats not true.
Again no; their perception is very important- it dictates whether they will be a customer or not.
Perception is subjective and you cant make game that will be liked by every one. In mmos players always make choices - in their class of choice, their build, their gear, When you pick class that doesnt suit your playstyle, you make bad gearing choice, you make bad build - you will always feel underpowered no matter how good game is and this case for ALL mmos with progression.
If the fact that you must make good choice in all these aspects to fully enjoy game is problem for you, you play wrong genre of games.
Again, I did not make this point. But no, the fault lies with the developer; unless I am not the target audience- but I and many other people who dislike the game here clearly were.
Read back through the 'don't count them out' interview. They are changing tack because the direction they were taking (living story) was not appealing to their core player base. They are also adding in lateral expansion in terms of skills to address the issue of a lack of character development. They are doing these things for a reason, like it or not.
It is also why they added in end game gear grind.
The target audience for GW2 is people that don't like MMORPGs.
People that like MMORPGs might or might not want to check GW2.
Who are the ones complaining about GW2?
People that like some other MMORPG?
About the Livingstory.
They also went from 1 month release to 2 weeks release based on player feedback.
And after the Christmas break, they are back to 2 weeks release until the first Living Story season end.
Then they will release a feature patch.
After that there will be Living Story Season 2.
I don't see what is the problem of a company responding to players feedback.
I think the opposite is actually the concerning thing/
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
ohh that does sound challenging .. Sneeze and kill a zone .. So in other words .. There scaling mechanic fails miserably...aint that rich
That's a lie. You haven't played the beta.
I really appreciate all the responses, even the ones that simply conclude I am playing "wrong". Honestly some of the feedback is a little defensive and "over the top"... this was just a discussion and my opinion. I never condemned the game as a failure or bad-mouthed it in any way. Still I appreciate everyone who took the time to chime in. Some people agree, some don't... I'm not on a mission to convince anyone of anything.
I did learn something though... I'll make sure next time I go to the grocery store I don't say too loudly that I dislike pistachio ice cream lest someone tell me I'm eating it wrong and my taste or opinion isn't "true" or "valid"!
Have a wondrous weekend everyone!