but its all rose tinted glasses you remember the good times you don't remember the chain dying or begging for groups in cursed forest or farming trees as a ranger
I do not understand these statements. I replied to someone saying the same thing about EQ.
No, everyone DOES remember all those things but they also remember all the good times. They played the game then and enjoyed it despite all the faults and they choose to remember the good times over the bad. Thinking it was a good game then and thinking it was a good game now from memory is perfectly logical and allowed. Good times are good times no matter when they happen.
You seem to suggest that we should forget all the games we liked throughout the years ... because they don't compare to modern games? Are modern games truly that much better? Funny how the forums are filled with complaints about how shallow and often terrible modern games are.
Someone could have fond memories of their 1964 corvette they used to own. That car is technologically in the stone age compared to the new modern vette but do you think they wouldn't want to own it now? Is it any less special to them?
You mention some things that you like which are in or planned to be in ESO.
For example the darkness falls dungeon, zenimax wants this in the future.
Relics in DAoC = Scroll in ESO
Okay so the classes are the same for all the factions, but there are different races, and it looks like there will be a lot of freedom in building your class. So I like it.
Death penalty, while not as harsh as in DAoC pre ToA/NF, it looks better than in WAR and current DAoC. ( you can't respawn to a keep under attack ).
The size of cyrodil is 30 minutes to cross from one side to the other, looks like plenty to me.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
The only issue was the constant calls for nerfs against other classes or my class is under powered compared to xx class, I don't think the forums ever agreed that one class was as equal as another class.
It was always the same argument you class is gimped so you cant be in my group which is what I had with my animist for the years I played him. It wasn't until I started to farm the dragon and drop trials of atlantis masterlevel mobs with my team of animists that people woke up and then boom nerfed into the floor.
So true. Having different classes for different realms was really fun, I thought. But it resulted in such a hate fest that most games fear touching that feature with a 10-foot pole these days. This would be, of course, an example of the good/bad duality existing in any design choice. You say we remember games with rose colored glasses, I'm not sure about that. What I do know is that I remember being absolutely disgusted and frustrated by perceived realm imbalance, and yet also loving the feel realm differences gave to the game. I remember the good and the bad.
Fast forward to a game like SWTOR and once again the good and bad exists. Republic and Empire are balanced, but the mirror classes from each side are identical. It makes for very balanced PvP (good) but takes away from the kind of fear you had of your enemy, or loyalty to your side, in DAoC (bad). Sort of like taking anti-depressants, it removes all of the dark depressing stuff, all of the whining and complaining . . . but it also removes the highs and the thrills of loving your realm. It sort of compresses the highs and lows into one even stream, where no one really complains, but no one falls in love with it either.
Modern MMOs haven't managed to keep all the good and trim all the bad, they simply have a different set of good/bad dualities that seem more intent on keeping players sedated and less whiney, but the result is that some of the color is lost in the process. That is why, ultimately, I think it was the players who shaped the games into what they are today, not financial forces. It was players whining constantly about realm imbalances that lead to the SWTOR/ESO model, where all sides are essentially identical, just skinned differently.
I am convinced that many of the critical changes that separate modern MMOs from the older ones were direct responses to all of the hate expressed by players. Very few, on the other hand, were the result of players consistently praising this feature or that . . . and the reason is because players have a tendency to whine, not to praise. And they don't actually come around to talking about how much they loved this feature or that until many years have past and they are whining about how they miss that feature! Then everyone reminds them about how much they used to whine and asks that they not wear such rose-colored glasses.
From all that I understand, PvP is very similar. 3 factions, full sieges, benefits for controlling keeps and such. It seems very DAoC to me yet there is not a big support from the old DAoC community. Just curious if anyone has any reasons....reasons that are NOT flaming rants about how you hate a game that's not even released.
Personally the PvP as well as the strong PvE is what is attracting me to this game. I loved DAoC tri-realm battles in larger open areas. I have grown very tired of this 5v5 arena (Team DeathMatch/Capture the Flag) PvP that every game seems to throw in as an after thought.
Anyway, any [Productive] thoughts?
What evidence do you have that supports a lack of interest from DAOC fans?
Until you provide factual proof, you're just saying random crap and implying it to be factual.
I'm a DAOC fan and I'm interested in TESO.
why? just why? lol.
the guy asked a simple question thats all, and people want proof? why are people so god damn on edge haha.
I am also interested to hear what people think OP as i missed the best days of DOAC. when i did eventualy play i found it to be the closest thing to EQ with pvp on the market. I just wish i had chance to really get to grips with it. So if Teso is going to be some kind of spiritual successor then im in.
With the NDA we can't even telll you. I've played in 2 beta weekends now and it makes you have dem feelz of DAOC old.
Once the NDA drops, and people start posting videos and seeing for themselves how PvP works in ESO, the DAoC crowd will come.
... Oh yes.. They will come.
I fully agree, I think this is going to be a wholel lot like it.
Yeah it is frustrating with all the misinformation and idiot posts about this game.... I got about 20 hours in last weekend and have now lost all desire to log into any of the dozen MMOs I currently play, including other beta tests... I cannot wait for NDA to be lifted.....
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
ok i have been playing the DOAC trial since monday now. here are my thoughts.
PVE was decent. for an old game it was pretty solid. Still a bit easy compared to Everquests old quest system. I found myself ignoring most quest text as i had the usual icon above the head telling me where to go and a red dot on the map telling where my quest objective was. Overall the PVE experience was good but not great and if i am honest it was a shadow of the old giants.
I levelled pretty fast but i guess thats due to the game being dumbed down for the modern crowd more.
I hit 35 in about three days and this was not trying to level. i even went back and forth to the citys to do some interesting quest lines. I was a Ranger by the way.
I decided now is the time to try the PVP. couldnt find much open world pvp due to population but went into one of the arena type areas and found a decent ammount going on. done a few pve quests in the area and managed to afford the weapon upgrades there, so i decided to take part.
about ten deaths later i decided to look back through my combat text and see what i was doing wrong. well in ten fights, which admittedly i was gangbanged, i got in about three hits ranging from 28 to 64. but looking at each death i found that i was two shotted each time, which explains why i never got much damage of myself. my recieved hits ranged from 120 to 600? something must be wrong there surely.
Honestly... the pvp reminded me more of CoD than the likes of wow, gw2, darkfall and the likes. It was more a case of who gets in the first hit as it didnt last long at all. Not my idea of a fight at all, more like assasinations.
My hit points at 35 were around 700 with the full buffs by the way. my equipment was all at least orange colour for my level. this made me feel in pve like i could easily take on higher levels as i was well equiped. But when entering pvp with players of the same bracket i realised that i was severley underpowered.
Conclusion is that i cant realy judge as it may be that i needed to work my way up slowly somehow ( not sure how to do that as every other player can kill me in seconds ). I think DOAC may be much better when played in large scale battles but as a solo fight you need to fight players with the same game time or not bother.
Still playing the game at the moment so i may find i am missing something.
The current state of DAoC is far from the greatness during the SI-era.
There is no more realm pride ( because you can easily switch sides ), a lot of pure PvP elite groups ( in itself not that bad, but this does not make a great community ).
The New Frontiers ( RvR area revamp ) were not a great improvement either, maybe the latest iteration is better ( New New Frontiers ), but still, there is no realm pride, therefore it is all meaningless.
A lot of the old PvE areas are deserted and there is also quite a bit of instancing, all this makes a less tight community.
DAoC in it's current state sure still has it's good points and fun to be had, but it is no longer an RvR game, but more of a small group PvE and small group PvP game ( at least most of the time ).
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Originally posted by Rhoklaw As a huge DAoC fan, I was expecting the same thing when WAR launched and then GW2. Honestly, TESO does look promising, but this is my 3rd attempt at replacing DAoC and I'm just skeptical is all. Not to worry, I know Camelot Unchained is still in the works too in case they flop this game somehow.
Originally posted by Tamanous Originally posted by giggalbut its all rose tinted glasses you remember the good times you don't remember the chain dying or begging for groups in cursed forest or farming trees as a ranger
I do not understand these statements. I replied to someone saying the same thing about EQ.
No, everyone DOES remember all those things but they also remember all the good times. They played the game then and enjoyed it despite all the faults and they choose to remember the good times over the bad. Thinking it was a good game then and thinking it was a good game now from memory is perfectly logical and allowed. Good times are good times no matter when they happen.
You seem to suggest that we should forget all the games we liked throughout the years ... because they don't compare to modern games? Are modern games truly that much better? Funny how the forums are filled with complaints about how shallow and often terrible modern games are.
Someone could have fond memories of their 1964 corvette they used to own. That car is technologically in the stone age compared to the new modern vette but do you think they wouldn't want to own it now? Is it any less special to them?
People just need to remember you cant have just all good things. Without some bad in there you lose alot of the good flavor. I mean just look at WoW as an example. It's been dumbed down so much and everything hands you high end stuff. That when you do manage to kill a boss in a raid or dungeon. It doesnt feel like you have really accoumplished anything because it was dumb bat easy.
As far as the RvR in ESO. I can tell you why its not going to pull in the DaoC crowed. Back then game mechanics and the game population was way different then it is today. You would go out and RvR for Realm Pride and for your realm rank. Today you dont get that realm pride because the population is so large and the even more massive zergs have just turned RvR into easy mode. It's just two Zergs crashing into each other and the battles generally decided right off the bat purely by numbers alone. That does not change in ESO. The larger group is almost always going to win out over the smaller group. In DaoC a small group could easily wipe a zerge. You wont be seeing that in ESO. Thus is just going to turn into another GW2 WvW of zerg smashing into zerg and whoever has the large numbers generally wins out each time.
ok i have been playing the DOAC trial since monday now. here are my thoughts.
PVE was decent. for an old game it was pretty solid. Still a bit easy compared to Everquests old quest system. I found myself ignoring most quest text as i had the usual icon above the head telling me where to go and a red dot on the map telling where my quest objective was. Overall the PVE experience was good but not great and if i am honest it was a shadow of the old giants.
I levelled pretty fast but i guess thats due to the game being dumbed down for the modern crowd more.
I hit 35 in about three days and this was not trying to level. i even went back and forth to the citys to do some interesting quest lines. I was a Ranger by the way.
I decided now is the time to try the PVP. couldnt find much open world pvp due to population but went into one of the arena type areas and found a decent ammount going on. done a few pve quests in the area and managed to afford the weapon upgrades there, so i decided to take part.
about ten deaths later i decided to look back through my combat text and see what i was doing wrong. well in ten fights, which admittedly i was gangbanged, i got in about three hits ranging from 28 to 64. but looking at each death i found that i was two shotted each time, which explains why i never got much damage of myself. my recieved hits ranged from 120 to 600? something must be wrong there surely.
Honestly... the pvp reminded me more of CoD than the likes of wow, gw2, darkfall and the likes. It was more a case of who gets in the first hit as it didnt last long at all. Not my idea of a fight at all, more like assasinations.
My hit points at 35 were around 700 with the full buffs by the way. my equipment was all at least orange colour for my level. this made me feel in pve like i could easily take on higher levels as i was well equiped. But when entering pvp with players of the same bracket i realised that i was severley underpowered.
Conclusion is that i cant realy judge as it may be that i needed to work my way up slowly somehow ( not sure how to do that as every other player can kill me in seconds ). I think DOAC may be much better when played in large scale battles but as a solo fight you need to fight players with the same game time or not bother.
Still playing the game at the moment so i may find i am missing something.
At level 35 you're not going to do much. I played a Mid Hunter and at level 50 with RR 12 my bow put out something like 1200 on a crit. You need to get the Realm Rank up if you play PvP.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw As a huge DAoC fan, I was expecting the same thing when WAR launched and then GW2. Honestly, TESO does look promising, but this is my 3rd attempt at replacing DAoC and I'm just skeptical is all. Not to worry, I know Camelot Unchained is still in the works too in case they flop this game somehow.
Luckily for me, in regards to GW2 and WAR, this is my FIRST attempt at expecting a similar product to Dark Age of Camelot. Reason 1 being, WAR was a 2 faction instanced BG which was typically, nearly empty of players, built as various collectives of meaningless open pvp zones. So, I knew from the outset, that this wouldn't do too well. I recall the second week after beta (I never got past RR45 or so on a couple of 40s)...that I told some old DAoC pals that this game was going to bust.
GW2 was an immediate far cry from anything DAoC offered. No factions - just guild vs guild where the same races and classes battled in an elementary fashion for E-Sport fun.
And, let's be realistic in comparing Dark Age to anything since...DAoC has 44 classes, each of which have different skills names and animations. This is spread among three realms (factions). DAoC has 24 races. Those two facts alone trump anything WAR scammed its players into believing (miserably failed at), and I won't waste 2 seconds on discussing a video game ala GW2.
Now we have a tri-realm mmorpg that claims it will herald in siege warfare and territorial control. The unique races are here, with no pvp zone quest crossover that you get smacked with in WoW after level 20 or so. So, special attention is built on the value of your faction. You can learn to love the culture by immersing in it from beginning to end game - which is something that NO MMORPG DOES.
I'm pissed about the copy paste names of classes and skill trees between each faction. That's just laziness and the ever so present fear of today's developers that players might think the grass is always greener somewhere else because a class beat them in a one to one duel somewhere...when in truth this title is all about pve and pvp teamwork.
Anyway....yeah - first title to attempt some form of Dark Age of Camelot mechanics. Thankfully it's nearly here.
Originally posted by jonesing22 Because TESO is BOOOORING
You either aren't in a position to form that opinion based on evidence, or you are in a position to do so, in which case you entered into an agreement to not say anything at all. Either way, your post ends up being inappropriate.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by jonesing22 Because TESO is BOOOORING
I am selfish in hoping that all the WoW type fans and those folks who are into E-Sport mmo's in general, will just stay away. It's been a long time in coming for a "grown-up" title that doesn't sport battle critters and silly cartoony mounts and gear. I am hoping that as a result of the first old-school mmorpg since Vanguard, Saga of Heroes, that I will once again see vibrant, interactive communities where names like, "Ipeedmypants" the paladin don't exist. Conversations about boobs in general chat and the "sup" and "yo" community of text talking Johnny Gamers that flood today's F2P titles and every WoW expansion...will hopefully stay where they are at.
As to the universal nature of class and weapon/armor/guild skills, I share some if your misgivings. However, the racial skill lines do provide a fairly consequential parity divergence and I am hoping that the very expandable nature of skill lines means that we will see some non-mirrored lines offered in updates/expansions. I am specifically hoping for lore-based racial lines like Ashei/Sword-Singer for Redguards and The Wild Hunt for Bosmers, etc.
This would be a pretty cool way to address the issue of homogeneity, but we will see
As for DAoC heads flocking to TESO, I am certainly one who will be, and I hope that there are enough others to at least partially recreate some of the magic of that RvR community.
For me personally having beta tested TESO my problem with it is actually that it doesnt feel much like a TES game to begin with in its current form. This is my own impression so fare. The game is looking good graphicly and runs fairly well spite being in beta which is impressive by itself, but the class system and ability system seems offputting. As an old DAoC player myself i love the idea of 3 sided faction wars and massive PvP but the PvE experience still has to feel like Elder Scrolls and to me personally it just doesnt at this point.
Originally posted by poweruo For me personally having beta tested TESO my problem with it is actually that it doesn't feel much like a TES game to begin with in its current form. This is my own impression so fare. The game is looking good graphically and runs fairly well spite being in beta which is impressive by itself, but the class system and ability system seems offputting. As an old DAoC player myself i love the idea of 3 sided faction wars and massive PvP but the PvE experience still has to feel like Elder Scrolls and to me personally it just doesn't at this point.
Interesting... I too have played all the betas and it very much feels like an Elder Scrolls game to me. It has voice acted quests, NPCs and engaging storylines. I can use any weapon I want with any class I want. I have built my traditional Battle Mage in most the betas with him wearing heavy armor, slinging spells and using a shield.... as a mage... that is Elder Scrolls to me... being able to build a character that traditionally is locked out in most games. The lore is there, the characters are there, the gods (Deadra) are there.
Maybe I can't kill the guards and wipe out a village, maybe I can't run around completely naked, maybe there is some exploration restrictions, BUT it is definitely Elder Scrolls.
Just as you think it's "seem very DAoC", many people think "it's just another WoW clone" etc. If there is no real support from the old DAoC community, most of them most likely think the later, rather than "DAoC in Cyrodil".
Not sure if you think of this as productive, but unless you go into the details why it is/is not like DAoC, this is it.
No one could accurately claim this gamer to be a WoW clone. In fact anyone who does probably hasn't even played it.
Originally posted by poweruo For me personally having beta tested TESO my problem with it is actually that it doesnt feel much like a TES game to begin with in its current form. This is my own impression so fare. The game is looking good graphicly and runs fairly well spite being in beta which is impressive by itself, but the class system and ability system seems offputting. As an old DAoC player myself i love the idea of 3 sided faction wars and massive PvP but the PvE experience still has to feel like Elder Scrolls and to me personally it just doesnt at this point.
I believe it Is as much Elder Scrolls as it can be, considering it is an MMORPG.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Just as you think it's "seem very DAoC", many people think "it's just another WoW clone" etc. If there is no real support from the old DAoC community, most of them most likely think the later, rather than "DAoC in Cyrodil".
Not sure if you think of this as productive, but unless you go into the details why it is/is not like DAoC, this is it.
No one could accurately claim this gamer to be a WoW clone. In fact anyone who does probably hasn't even played it.
agreed, TESO is not a WoW clone, and that is exactly why I am liking it.
It is of course an MMORPG, so there are similarities with WoW, but there are more similarities with DAoC and Oblivion tho.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Originally posted by poweruo For me personally having beta tested TESO my problem with it is actually that it doesn't feel much like a TES game to begin with in its current form. This is my own impression so fare. The game is looking good graphically and runs fairly well spite being in beta which is impressive by itself, but the class system and ability system seems offputting. As an old DAoC player myself i love the idea of 3 sided faction wars and massive PvP but the PvE experience still has to feel like Elder Scrolls and to me personally it just doesn't at this point.
Interesting... I too have played all the betas and it very much feels like an Elder Scrolls game to me. It has voice acted quests, NPCs and engaging storylines. I can use any weapon I want with any class I want. I have built my traditional Battle Mage in most the betas with him wearing heavy armor, slinging spells and using a shield.... as a mage... that is Elder Scrolls to me... being able to build a character that traditionally is locked out in most games. The lore is there, the characters are there, the gods (Deadra) are there.
Maybe I can't kill the guards and wipe out a village, maybe I can't run around completely naked, maybe there is some exploration restrictions, BUT it is definitely Elder Scrolls.
Pretty much this, again it is an MMORPG, so take that into consideration.
I think ESO is as much an Elder Scrolls game as it possibly can be.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I don't know how someone could possibly look at the interface and the graphics and not be reminded of Elder Scrolls. I am not saying its just like Elder Scrolls because it isn't, there are many compromises between ES and MMO and so it doesn't feel like either one entirely, but people who play beta or look at the videos that have shown up on the internet and say its doesn't remind them of Elder Scrolls at all, I just don't see how that is possible.
Comments
I do not understand these statements. I replied to someone saying the same thing about EQ.
No, everyone DOES remember all those things but they also remember all the good times. They played the game then and enjoyed it despite all the faults and they choose to remember the good times over the bad. Thinking it was a good game then and thinking it was a good game now from memory is perfectly logical and allowed. Good times are good times no matter when they happen.
You seem to suggest that we should forget all the games we liked throughout the years ... because they don't compare to modern games? Are modern games truly that much better? Funny how the forums are filled with complaints about how shallow and often terrible modern games are.
Someone could have fond memories of their 1964 corvette they used to own. That car is technologically in the stone age compared to the new modern vette but do you think they wouldn't want to own it now? Is it any less special to them?
You stay sassy!
You mention some things that you like which are in or planned to be in ESO.
For example the darkness falls dungeon, zenimax wants this in the future.
Relics in DAoC = Scroll in ESO
Okay so the classes are the same for all the factions, but there are different races, and it looks like there will be a lot of freedom in building your class. So I like it.
Death penalty, while not as harsh as in DAoC pre ToA/NF, it looks better than in WAR and current DAoC. ( you can't respawn to a keep under attack ).
The size of cyrodil is 30 minutes to cross from one side to the other, looks like plenty to me.
All my info comes from here :
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/news/category/development
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
So true. Having different classes for different realms was really fun, I thought. But it resulted in such a hate fest that most games fear touching that feature with a 10-foot pole these days. This would be, of course, an example of the good/bad duality existing in any design choice. You say we remember games with rose colored glasses, I'm not sure about that. What I do know is that I remember being absolutely disgusted and frustrated by perceived realm imbalance, and yet also loving the feel realm differences gave to the game. I remember the good and the bad.
Fast forward to a game like SWTOR and once again the good and bad exists. Republic and Empire are balanced, but the mirror classes from each side are identical. It makes for very balanced PvP (good) but takes away from the kind of fear you had of your enemy, or loyalty to your side, in DAoC (bad). Sort of like taking anti-depressants, it removes all of the dark depressing stuff, all of the whining and complaining . . . but it also removes the highs and the thrills of loving your realm. It sort of compresses the highs and lows into one even stream, where no one really complains, but no one falls in love with it either.
Modern MMOs haven't managed to keep all the good and trim all the bad, they simply have a different set of good/bad dualities that seem more intent on keeping players sedated and less whiney, but the result is that some of the color is lost in the process. That is why, ultimately, I think it was the players who shaped the games into what they are today, not financial forces. It was players whining constantly about realm imbalances that lead to the SWTOR/ESO model, where all sides are essentially identical, just skinned differently.
I am convinced that many of the critical changes that separate modern MMOs from the older ones were direct responses to all of the hate expressed by players. Very few, on the other hand, were the result of players consistently praising this feature or that . . . and the reason is because players have a tendency to whine, not to praise. And they don't actually come around to talking about how much they loved this feature or that until many years have past and they are whining about how they miss that feature! Then everyone reminds them about how much they used to whine and asks that they not wear such rose-colored glasses.
With the NDA we can't even telll you.
I've played in 2 beta weekends now and it makes you have dem feelz of DAOC old. 
I fully agree, I think this is going to be a wholel lot like it.
Yeah it is frustrating with all the misinformation and idiot posts about this game.... I got about 20 hours in last weekend and have now lost all desire to log into any of the dozen MMOs I currently play, including other beta tests... I cannot wait for NDA to be lifted.....
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
ok i have been playing the DOAC trial since monday now. here are my thoughts.
PVE was decent. for an old game it was pretty solid. Still a bit easy compared to Everquests old quest system. I found myself ignoring most quest text as i had the usual icon above the head telling me where to go and a red dot on the map telling where my quest objective was. Overall the PVE experience was good but not great and if i am honest it was a shadow of the old giants.
I levelled pretty fast but i guess thats due to the game being dumbed down for the modern crowd more.
I hit 35 in about three days and this was not trying to level. i even went back and forth to the citys to do some interesting quest lines. I was a Ranger by the way.
I decided now is the time to try the PVP. couldnt find much open world pvp due to population but went into one of the arena type areas and found a decent ammount going on. done a few pve quests in the area and managed to afford the weapon upgrades there, so i decided to take part.
about ten deaths later i decided to look back through my combat text and see what i was doing wrong. well in ten fights, which admittedly i was gangbanged, i got in about three hits ranging from 28 to 64. but looking at each death i found that i was two shotted each time, which explains why i never got much damage of myself. my recieved hits ranged from 120 to 600? something must be wrong there surely.
Honestly... the pvp reminded me more of CoD than the likes of wow, gw2, darkfall and the likes. It was more a case of who gets in the first hit as it didnt last long at all. Not my idea of a fight at all, more like assasinations.
My hit points at 35 were around 700 with the full buffs by the way. my equipment was all at least orange colour for my level. this made me feel in pve like i could easily take on higher levels as i was well equiped. But when entering pvp with players of the same bracket i realised that i was severley underpowered.
Conclusion is that i cant realy judge as it may be that i needed to work my way up slowly somehow ( not sure how to do that as every other player can kill me in seconds ). I think DOAC may be much better when played in large scale battles but as a solo fight you need to fight players with the same game time or not bother.
Still playing the game at the moment so i may find i am missing something.
The current state of DAoC is far from the greatness during the SI-era.
There is no more realm pride ( because you can easily switch sides ), a lot of pure PvP elite groups ( in itself not that bad, but this does not make a great community ).
The New Frontiers ( RvR area revamp ) were not a great improvement either, maybe the latest iteration is better ( New New Frontiers ), but still, there is no realm pride, therefore it is all meaningless.
A lot of the old PvE areas are deserted and there is also quite a bit of instancing, all this makes a less tight community.
DAoC in it's current state sure still has it's good points and fun to be had, but it is no longer an RvR game, but more of a small group PvE and small group PvP game ( at least most of the time ).
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Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Add me to this list lol.
No, everyone DOES remember all those things but they also remember all the good times. They played the game then and enjoyed it despite all the faults and they choose to remember the good times over the bad. Thinking it was a good game then and thinking it was a good game now from memory is perfectly logical and allowed. Good times are good times no matter when they happen.
You seem to suggest that we should forget all the games we liked throughout the years ... because they don't compare to modern games? Are modern games truly that much better? Funny how the forums are filled with complaints about how shallow and often terrible modern games are.
Someone could have fond memories of their 1964 corvette they used to own. That car is technologically in the stone age compared to the new modern vette but do you think they wouldn't want to own it now? Is it any less special to them?
People just need to remember you cant have just all good things. Without some bad in there you lose alot of the good flavor. I mean just look at WoW as an example. It's been dumbed down so much and everything hands you high end stuff. That when you do manage to kill a boss in a raid or dungeon. It doesnt feel like you have really accoumplished anything because it was dumb bat easy.
As far as the RvR in ESO. I can tell you why its not going to pull in the DaoC crowed. Back then game mechanics and the game population was way different then it is today. You would go out and RvR for Realm Pride and for your realm rank. Today you dont get that realm pride because the population is so large and the even more massive zergs have just turned RvR into easy mode. It's just two Zergs crashing into each other and the battles generally decided right off the bat purely by numbers alone. That does not change in ESO. The larger group is almost always going to win out over the smaller group. In DaoC a small group could easily wipe a zerge. You wont be seeing that in ESO. Thus is just going to turn into another GW2 WvW of zerg smashing into zerg and whoever has the large numbers generally wins out each time.
At level 35 you're not going to do much. I played a Mid Hunter and at level 50 with RR 12 my bow put out something like 1200 on a crit. You need to get the Realm Rank up if you play PvP.
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Luckily for me, in regards to GW2 and WAR, this is my FIRST attempt at expecting a similar product to Dark Age of Camelot. Reason 1 being, WAR was a 2 faction instanced BG which was typically, nearly empty of players, built as various collectives of meaningless open pvp zones. So, I knew from the outset, that this wouldn't do too well. I recall the second week after beta (I never got past RR45 or so on a couple of 40s)...that I told some old DAoC pals that this game was going to bust.
GW2 was an immediate far cry from anything DAoC offered. No factions - just guild vs guild where the same races and classes battled in an elementary fashion for E-Sport fun.
And, let's be realistic in comparing Dark Age to anything since...DAoC has 44 classes, each of which have different skills names and animations. This is spread among three realms (factions). DAoC has 24 races. Those two facts alone trump anything WAR scammed its players into believing (miserably failed at), and I won't waste 2 seconds on discussing a video game ala GW2.
Now we have a tri-realm mmorpg that claims it will herald in siege warfare and territorial control. The unique races are here, with no pvp zone quest crossover that you get smacked with in WoW after level 20 or so. So, special attention is built on the value of your faction. You can learn to love the culture by immersing in it from beginning to end game - which is something that NO MMORPG DOES.
I'm pissed about the copy paste names of classes and skill trees between each faction. That's just laziness and the ever so present fear of today's developers that players might think the grass is always greener somewhere else because a class beat them in a one to one duel somewhere...when in truth this title is all about pve and pvp teamwork.
Anyway....yeah - first title to attempt some form of Dark Age of Camelot mechanics. Thankfully it's nearly here.
You either aren't in a position to form that opinion based on evidence, or you are in a position to do so, in which case you entered into an agreement to not say anything at all. Either way, your post ends up being inappropriate.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I am selfish in hoping that all the WoW type fans and those folks who are into E-Sport mmo's in general, will just stay away. It's been a long time in coming for a "grown-up" title that doesn't sport battle critters and silly cartoony mounts and gear. I am hoping that as a result of the first old-school mmorpg since Vanguard, Saga of Heroes, that I will once again see vibrant, interactive communities where names like, "Ipeedmypants" the paladin don't exist. Conversations about boobs in general chat and the "sup" and "yo" community of text talking Johnny Gamers that flood today's F2P titles and every WoW expansion...will hopefully stay where they are at.
Here's to hoping.
Comaf: I enjoy your points.
As to the universal nature of class and weapon/armor/guild skills, I share some if your misgivings. However, the racial skill lines do provide a fairly consequential parity divergence and I am hoping that the very expandable nature of skill lines means that we will see some non-mirrored lines offered in updates/expansions. I am specifically hoping for lore-based racial lines like Ashei/Sword-Singer for Redguards and The Wild Hunt for Bosmers, etc.
This would be a pretty cool way to address the issue of homogeneity, but we will see
As for DAoC heads flocking to TESO, I am certainly one who will be, and I hope that there are enough others to at least partially recreate some of the magic of that RvR community.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt
Interesting... I too have played all the betas and it very much feels like an Elder Scrolls game to me. It has voice acted quests, NPCs and engaging storylines. I can use any weapon I want with any class I want. I have built my traditional Battle Mage in most the betas with him wearing heavy armor, slinging spells and using a shield.... as a mage... that is Elder Scrolls to me... being able to build a character that traditionally is locked out in most games. The lore is there, the characters are there, the gods (Deadra) are there.
Maybe I can't kill the guards and wipe out a village, maybe I can't run around completely naked, maybe there is some exploration restrictions, BUT it is definitely Elder Scrolls.
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
No one could accurately claim this gamer to be a WoW clone. In fact anyone who does probably hasn't even played it.
I believe it Is as much Elder Scrolls as it can be, considering it is an MMORPG.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
agreed, TESO is not a WoW clone, and that is exactly why I am liking it.
It is of course an MMORPG, so there are similarities with WoW, but there are more similarities with DAoC and Oblivion tho.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Pretty much this, again it is an MMORPG, so take that into consideration.
I think ESO is as much an Elder Scrolls game as it possibly can be.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC